Grahamburn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:37 am
A few plays needed to go our way that didn’t:
Dean dropped INT
GRONK dropped dime early (2nd drive?)
Whitehead forced fumble not recovered
GRONK phantom PI on Godwin big gain
Those go Tampa’s way it’s likely a much different outcome. Hopefully they learn from this.
Yup
Rams are a good team who were fired up at home to play us. They played a clean game and we didn't seize the (few) opportunities we had in that first half.
We lost to what many consider the best team in the NFL. We're 2-1 and our schedule gets much easier the next few weeks. The Rams were favored in this game for a reason. Defense did not look good, but we were down 2 starters. We lost 38-3 last season and won the SB. This game means nothing more than a check in the L column in week 3 of a 17-game season. I'm not concerned....yet
Story of the game; Bucs didn't seize their oppurtunities, didn't make things difficult for the Rams, and went a long stretch of the game on defense without getting a stop. Just too much for the offense to overcome.
Should have outscored them, I feel like we beat our self in that. Tom had some big throws that were off just enough. Early on throwing short of the line to gain really perplexed me. Johnson was 3 out of six targets, with three not even close to catchable.
Tom is going to need more help than what he got.
We made Stafford look amazing. The pocket was protected all day for them, we did a piss poor job of getting to him. Even with Blitzing. Then there’s Gio Bernard trying to stop someone 40 pounds heavier than him. And failing miserably.
Just glad we got out of this game with Tom still intact. This was my fear game of the year. We weren’t going 17-0.
So Skip Bayless is apparently a Bucs fan now. He knows absolutely nothing about this team. Apparently AB is our best weapon on offense, JPP is our best and most important defensive player, and Gholston is a 3rd stringer. He's also drooling over Brady's "400 yard game" while at the same time throwing the other 52 players on the team under the bus and backing up over them. Absolutely ridiculous.
Last edited by King Bootz on Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
my thoughts are that this game met so much more to the Rams.. they were flying to the ball on D, had a super solid gameplan on O and just overall seemed to want it more.
LUGZ wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:41 am
Kind of frustrating to watch the Panthers fill a void in their secondary a week after injury yet we've done nothing to fill the gaping holes in our defense.
Perhaps you seek out reasons to be frustrated and sources of frustration?
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:11 am
So Skip Bayless is apparently a Bucs fan now. He knows absolutely nothing about this team. Apparently AB is our best weapon on offense, JPP is our best and most important defensive player, and Gholston is a 3rd stringer. He's also drooling over Brady's "400 yard game" while at the same time throwing the other 52 players on the team under the bus and backing up over them. Absolutely ridiculous.
He's a Brady acolyte.
But Skip, SAS, and the rest of the hot take talking heads are basically just to sports what FoxNews, CNN, MSNBC, etc are to the news.
They get paid to create reaction. It's the business model in place for better and worse.
Doctor wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:06 pm
How often were the Pats off to rough starts only to crush it? We're down a lot of guys. We played a tough team. We weren't the best team today. It happens.
The problem is we don't have a BeliCheat over on the sidelines.
Of course the season isn't over but didn't like what I saw from Bowles in particular yesterday.
There is something to be said though that the Saints and Panthers are doing what they can since day one to address the secondary. The Packers in the draft did it again. I think the other contenders are seeing that spreading it out and getting rid of it in under 2.8 seconds is almost short of unstoppable. Gotta have the corners to try and prevent the 50+ pass attempts in this age of the new Arena..oops I mean National Football League.
That said with our linebackers and safeties we SHOULD be able to somehow, someway be able to adjust to something besides the rush 4, occasionally 5 on an extra blitzer. The 77’ Falcons SENT EVERYONE on every snap . I believe still a record 9.9 PPG?? Something ridiculous like that. Why not use our strengths in an all or nothing scenario ???? If they beat us on a 75 yrd bomb , no different than what we do now. I’d bet sending the house would provide just the +1 turnover we need to win. Call me crazy but send LVD, White, Shaq, Tryon, JPP, Vita, n let CD3 n Dean play strict bump n run n watch the free guy get through a lot more often than we are now!!
LavonteDavid54 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:56 pm
There is something to be said though that the Saints and Panthers are doing what they can since day one to address the secondary. The Packers in the draft did it again. I think the other contenders are seeing that spreading it out and getting rid of it in under 2.8 seconds is almost short of unstoppable. Gotta have the corners to try and prevent the 50+ pass attempts in this age of the new Arena..oops I mean National Football League.
That said with our linebackers and safeties we SHOULD be able to somehow, someway be able to adjust to something besides the rush 4, occasionally 5 on an extra blitzer. The 77’ Falcons SENT EVERYONE on every snap . I believe still a record 9.9 PPG?? Something ridiculous like that. Why not use our strengths in an all or nothing scenario ???? If they beat us on a 75 yrd bomb , no different than what we do now. I’d bet sending the house would provide just the +1 turnover we need to win. Call me crazy but send LVD, White, Shaq, Tryon, JPP, Vita, n let CD3 n Dean play strict bump n run n watch the free guy get through a lot more often than we are now!!
So you just want us to get killed over the middle by TEs & RBs?
That is already the case. Devin White is one of the worst linebackers in coverage in the NFL. Might as well have him doing something he can succeed at.
I have no problem having LVD out in the field to be clear.
And to be clear, I’m never a fan of doing it “one way.” That’s Arians think and personally I find it ridiculous. It’s rare you’re that much more talented than the other team. Bucs were insanely healthy last season and our SB opponent wasn’t. We are now seeing when the shoe is on the other foot. Coaching has to step up here. They aren’t fooling anyone on defense and the talent isn’t enough to get away with it.
I’m seeing a lot of complaints about our Pass Rush.
Fair enough, but here is some context:
Week 1 Dak Time to Throw
* 2.39 = # 2 quickest in NFL (if you remove Brady)
* 38 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.78 average TtT.
Week 2 Ryan TtT
* 2.49 = # 6 quickest in NFL (if you remove Brady)
* 27 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.83 average TtT.
Those numbers tell a stark, inferable story. Just like last year, teams are overwhelmingly using the quick game against us to negate our Pass Rush. In terms of NFL TtT, they’re beating our back 7 QUICKLY.
This is on our back 7 coverage personel and our defensive coaches.
Looking briefly at the replay of the game and doing some half-assed timing of throws, it was the same thing in this game (which is predictable because that is what McVay does).
Nobody wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:29 pm
I put this in the wrong thread so copy/pasta:
I’m seeing a lot of complaints about our Pass Rush.
Fair enough, but here is some context:
Week 1 Dak Time to Throw
* 2.39 = # 2 quickest in NFL (if you remove Brady)
* 38 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.78 average TtT.
Week 2 Ryan TtT
* 2.49 = # 6 quickest in NFL (if you remove Brady)
* 27 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.83 average TtT.
Those numbers tell a stark, inferable story. Just like last year, teams are overwhelmingly using the quick game against us to negate our Pass Rush. In terms of NFL TtT, they’re beating our back 7 QUICKLY.
This is on our back 7 coverage personel and our defensive coaches.
Looking briefly at the replay of the game and doing some half-assed timing of throws, it was the same thing in this game (which is predictable because that is what McVay does).
This doesn't exactly pass the eye test. It's not like we're seeing the pass rush "almost" get there or even accumulate a lot of pressure or hits when they don't. Even when QBs don't let it rip immediately, they still have time to go through progressions and make plays.
I don't know if you're for sure arguing that the pass rush is doing their job just fine but if you are, I strongly disagree.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:45 am
Perhaps you seek out reasons to be frustrated and sources of frustration?
Yea, we probably shouldn't do anything to address the dire situation in our secondary.
if you're not frustrated by a division rival doing something we should've done already, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
Sooooo you're advocating for us to trade for a 1st rounder from 2020 that the team that drafted him is already giving up on him...bold strategy, Cotton.
In terms of ratio of plays it’s about 20:80 Pass Rush:Coverage.
In terms of magnitude of those 20 though, that’s another question.
I haven’t watched the tape to breakdown the 2.5 second + snaps with any kind of granular detail, but there are certainly some of those snaps where either (a) Pass Rush isn’t winning or (b) the QB has made a great throw despite a Hurry or a Hit or (c) we’ve had a combo of coverage bust + lack of Pass Rush win.
Week 1 Dak in his 2.5 second + snaps saw him escape Pass Rush with scramble * 3, DL batted ball * 1, Sack *1, a play that should have been a TO * 1, and his Passer Rating was well below that for the game.
Week 2 Ryan in his 2.5 second + snaps saw him escape Pass Rush with scramble * 1, DL batted ball * 0, Sack *1, a play that should have been a TO * 0, and his Passer Rating was massively better than that for the game.
Frequency-wise, it’s hugely a coverage issue. Situationally, it’s a bit of both and a bit of great play against us.
In total, it’s definitely a game planning and play calling issue.
This quick passing game is what Drew Brees has done to us (and the the rest of the NFL) for the past decade.
The remedy is press man coverage to take away the quick throw and force the QB to hold the ball longer.
The downside is it exposes your coverage on deeper routes if the rush can't get there. It's a smart gameplan vs an immobile and weal-armed QB like Brees was last season. Doing that vs someone like Mahomes and Josh Allen would be suicide imo.
Either play more press man or play alot of zone and just rally to the ball. Hopefully you can cause a fumble or some kind of drive killing negative play/penalty.
With the rules in the NFL these days and how they touchy they call the games it's virtually impossible to stop passing offenses when they are executing.
But we can, and need to do a much better job of making things more difficult for opposing passing games. It's just too easy for them right now.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm
This quick passing game is what Drew Brees has done to us (and the the rest of the NFL) for the past decade.
The remedy is press man coverage to take away the quick throw and force the QB to hold the ball longer.
The downside is it exposes your coverage on deeper routes if the rush can't get there. It's a smart gameplan vs an immobile and weal-armed QB like Brees was last season. Doing that vs someone like Mahomes and Josh Allen would be suicide imo.
Either play more press man or play alot of zone and just rally to the ball. Hopefully you can cause a fumble or some kind of drive killing negative play/penalty.
With the rules in the NFL these days and how they touchy they call the games it's virtually impossible to stop passing offenses when they are executing.
But we can, and need to do a much better job of making things more difficult for opposing passing games. It's just too easy for them right now.
I agree.
All of this, but also...
Cheat.
The best defenses in the NFL have been cheating the last decade. The refs don't want to call Illegal Contact and Defensive Holding constantly. So you use that like the great defenses have been doing. You get physical, you stay physical, you skirt the boundary of Illegal Contact by constantly getting into receivers after 5 yards.
Play 2 Man Under Press, play Cover 1 Free (and let Edwards play mid-Hole/Robber where he is going to be most effective and flat out double someone with the other Safety). Overload blitz the perimeter. Mix in Palms and Match Quarters and variations of 2 Zone. Regardless, hit dudes at the line of scrimmage...hit dudes downfield...and don't stop hitting dudes. Disrupt routes, dictate, skirt the rules, and make them call Illegal Contact or Defensive Holding. Generate negative plays and make them come away from a possession here and there without points (honestly...a 10 play 75 yard drive feels so much worse on defense in the modern NFL then giving up a 50 yard TD pass and the offense is right back on the field).
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm
This quick passing game is what Drew Brees has done to us (and the the rest of the NFL) for the past decade.
The remedy is press man coverage to take away the quick throw and force the QB to hold the ball longer.
The downside is it exposes your coverage on deeper routes if the rush can't get there. It's a smart gameplan vs an immobile and weal-armed QB like Brees was last season. Doing that vs someone like Mahomes and Josh Allen would be suicide imo.
Either play more press man or play alot of zone and just rally to the ball. Hopefully you can cause a fumble or some kind of drive killing negative play/penalty.
With the rules in the NFL these days and how they touchy they call the games it's virtually impossible to stop passing offenses when they are executing.
But we can, and need to do a much better job of making things more difficult for opposing passing games. It's just too easy for them right now.
I agree.
All of this, but also...
Cheat.
The best defenses in the NFL have been cheating the last decade. The refs don't want to call Illegal Contact and Defensive Holding constantly. So you use that like the great defenses have been doing. You get physical, you stay physical, you skirt the boundary of Illegal Contact by constantly getting into receivers after 5 yards.
Play 2 Man Under Press, play Cover 1 Free (and let Edwards play mid-Hole/Robber where he is going to be most effective and flat out double someone with the other Safety). Overload blitz the perimeter. Mix in Palms and Match Quarters and variations of 2 Zone. Regardless, hit dudes at the line of scrimmage...hit dudes downfield...and don't stop hitting dudes. Disrupt routes, dictate, skirt the rules, and make them call Illegal Contact or Defensive Holding. Generate negative plays and make them come away from a possession here and there without points (honestly...a 10 play 75 yard drive feels so much worse on defense in the modern NFL then giving up a 50 yard TD pass and the offense is right back on the field).
A lot of this is what we did in our playoff run. We hit the chiefs receivers off the line and kept hitting them for 5-8 yards. SMB got a pick by grabbing a GB receiver and on Pat McAfee show openly admitted “The league taught me to do that”.
The best defenses in the NFL have been cheating the last decade. The refs don't want to call Illegal Contact and Defensive Holding constantly. So you use that like the great defenses have been doing. You get physical, you stay physical, you skirt the boundary of Illegal Contact by constantly getting into receivers after 5 yards.
Play 2 Man Under Press, play Cover 1 Free (and let Edwards play mid-Hole/Robber where he is going to be most effective and flat out double someone with the other Safety). Overload blitz the perimeter. Mix in Palms and Match Quarters and variations of 2 Zone. Regardless, hit dudes at the line of scrimmage...hit dudes downfield...and don't stop hitting dudes. Disrupt routes, dictate, skirt the rules, and make them call Illegal Contact or Defensive Holding. Generate negative plays and make them come away from a possession here and there without points (honestly...a 10 play 75 yard drive feels so much worse on defense in the modern NFL then giving up a 50 yard TD pass and the offense is right back on the field).
A lot of this is what we did in our playoff run. We hit the chiefs receivers off the line and kept hitting them for 5-8 yards. SMB got a pick by grabbing a GB receiver and on Pat McAfee show openly admitted “The league taught me to do that”.
Exactly. That's why all this whining about corruption and fixed games and bad officiating falls on deaf ears.
I’m still rooting for the occasional “ Grits Blitz” !!!
For those who think I’m delusional , Google the 1977 Atlanta Falcons defense. They still to this day hold records for ppg, turnovers at 3+ per game, etc. More dominant than 85’ Bears 00’ Ravens !
When you look at the speed at LB n the edge guys we have in Shaq, JPP, n Tryon.. with the safeties we have. It’s not ridiculous to maybe explore it here n there. Didn’t the Edwards pick 6 come from sending guys from BOTH sides plus the chaos in the middle. Last year at home vs GB we had sent a lot of jail break type pressure. Yes you can get burned but IDC whos QB you can’t prepare for 7-8 guys coming from everywhere, especially if they aren’t ready for it. It just seems when we are not getting home n getting carved up it’s something we should explore.
I want to go down swinging I guess is my mentality. I don’t want any bullets left in the gun.
The best defenses in the NFL have been cheating the last decade. The refs don't want to call Illegal Contact and Defensive Holding constantly. So you use that like the great defenses have been doing. You get physical, you stay physical, you skirt the boundary of Illegal Contact by constantly getting into receivers after 5 yards.
Play 2 Man Under Press, play Cover 1 Free (and let Edwards play mid-Hole/Robber where he is going to be most effective and flat out double someone with the other Safety). Overload blitz the perimeter. Mix in Palms and Match Quarters and variations of 2 Zone. Regardless, hit dudes at the line of scrimmage...hit dudes downfield...and don't stop hitting dudes. Disrupt routes, dictate, skirt the rules, and make them call Illegal Contact or Defensive Holding. Generate negative plays and make them come away from a possession here and there without points (honestly...a 10 play 75 yard drive feels so much worse on defense in the modern NFL then giving up a 50 yard TD pass and the offense is right back on the field).
A lot of this is what we did in our playoff run. We hit the chiefs receivers off the line and kept hitting them for 5-8 yards. SMB got a pick by grabbing a GB receiver and on Pat McAfee show openly admitted “The league taught me to do that”.
Yup. I don't know why Bowles does this, but this is his M.O. over the years. Draft/develop physical back 7 players (who may be a bit processing deficient), have success playing physical and dictating, then fall in love with finesse/Zone/processing intensive Match Quarters/Inverted 2 Zone/2 Read.
I really like Bowles, but this whole thing has always been a big WTF? aspect of his coaching regimes. Its like a pitcher with a 98 MPH 4 seamer going offspeed 60 % of the time and mixing in the gas only 40 % of the time.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm
This quick passing game is what Drew Brees has done to us (and the the rest of the NFL) for the past decade.
The remedy is press man coverage to take away the quick throw and force the QB to hold the ball longer.
The downside is it exposes your coverage on deeper routes if the rush can't get there. It's a smart gameplan vs an immobile and weal-armed QB like Brees was last season. Doing that vs someone like Mahomes and Josh Allen would be suicide imo.
Either play more press man or play alot of zone and just rally to the ball. Hopefully you can cause a fumble or some kind of drive killing negative play/penalty.
With the rules in the NFL these days and how they touchy they call the games it's virtually impossible to stop passing offenses when they are executing.
But we can, and need to do a much better job of making things more difficult for opposing passing games. It's just too easy for them right now.
I agree.
All of this, but also...
Cheat.
The best defenses in the NFL have been cheating the last decade. The refs don't want to call Illegal Contact and Defensive Holding constantly. So you use that like the great defenses have been doing. You get physical, you stay physical, you skirt the boundary of Illegal Contact by constantly getting into receivers after 5 yards.
Play 2 Man Under Press, play Cover 1 Free (and let Edwards play mid-Hole/Robber where he is going to be most effective and flat out double someone with the other Safety). Overload blitz the perimeter. Mix in Palms and Match Quarters and variations of 2 Zone. Regardless, hit dudes at the line of scrimmage...hit dudes downfield...and don't stop hitting dudes. Disrupt routes, dictate, skirt the rules, and make them call Illegal Contact or Defensive Holding. Generate negative plays and make them come away from a possession here and there without points (honestly...a 10 play 75 yard drive feels so much worse on defense in the modern NFL then giving up a 50 yard TD pass and the offense is right back on the field).
I agree completely.
The best remedy for the short passing game is to get in their face and mash then at the line. Disrupt timing, disrupt releases, give the DL more time to make a drive-killing play. While I'm a fan of 2-man for these sorts of things, there are plenty of coverages you can throw at an offense and still play physical.
That type of defense is a big reason why we won both Superbowls, and if we have any sense we will return to what we know has worked in the past.
LUGZ wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:31 pm
Is it being willfully ignorant and naive to say that even though we played the Rams heavily compromised with injuries, on the road, with the Rams being very healthy, and them playing damn near a perfect game against us....we STILL only lost by 10? And if we get a TD instead of FG, this is just a one score game.
Idk, I guess I'm just desperately trying to think "glass half full" the day after being embarrassed by the Rams.
I mean, you're not wrong. At the end of the day the score was just ten points. Part of that is false reassurance I'd argue, as the Giovanni Bernard TD in the last few minutes was the essence of garbage time, but I digress. If you want to hang your hat on a two-score game, feel free.
The scoring differential doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that our defense looked consistently outclassed both schematically and positionally, and our running game is pathetic in every way. Only our passing offense can hold its own (though that had several misfires as well), and that's largely because Tom Brady keeps dragging us to respectable offensive outputs.
We can't rely solely on Brady to win us the game. We need to play smart and we need to play hard. Maybe we lost a bit of an edge after the Superbowl win, who knows. But we need to try like hell to get that edge back.
Outside of the initial few offensive series, the Rams played absolutely excellent.
We were awful on Defense.
We left several plays out on the field on Offense that were game-complexion changing.
We had plenty of bad, mostly procedural, penalties (6 in fact, the OPI on Gronk taken out).
McVay severely out-schemed Bowles.
They got the benefit of a big call for them (which may have been a 4 point differential in a 1 score game as it turned what should have been 1st and 12 into a TD) and we got one against us (which ended up being a 30 yard penalty and drive-killer).
They were at home.
The result of this one is less of a concern than how much we're getting carved up by the quick passing game through 3 games. My sense is this is less about injuries and more about just back 7 coverage struggles from both a personnel and schematic standpoint.
A wake up call early in the season could be helpful.
The best defenses in the NFL have been cheating the last decade. The refs don't want to call Illegal Contact and Defensive Holding constantly. So you use that like the great defenses have been doing. You get physical, you stay physical, you skirt the boundary of Illegal Contact by constantly getting into receivers after 5 yards.
Funny enough, if there's a corner out there who knows this it's a certain former member of the "Legion of Boom". I hear he might be available.
A lot of this is what we did in our playoff run. We hit the chiefs receivers off the line and kept hitting them for 5-8 yards. SMB got a pick by grabbing a GB receiver and on Pat McAfee show openly admitted “The league taught me to do that”.
Yup. I don't know why Bowles does this, but this is his M.O. over the years. Draft/develop physical back 7 players (who may be a bit processing deficient), have success playing physical and dictating, then fall in love with finesse/Zone/processing intensive Match Quarters/Inverted 2 Zone/2 Read.
I really like Bowles, but this whole thing has always been a big WTF? aspect of his coaching regimes. Its like a pitcher with a 98 MPH 4 seamer going offspeed 60 % of the time and mixing in the gas only 40 % of the time.
It is mind numbingly frustrating. I would love if Bowles could explain why he ostensibly plays to his players weaknesses. I just don’t understand it.
