Rapid Reactions Week 3: 34-24 Loss @ Los Angeles Rams

[Rocker]

We're not collapsing the middle of the pocket like we should be doing. Shaq's getting hosed in his matchups against the edge defenders. White has exactly zero quality rush techniques. Left side rush is fucking shit thus far. Combine all that with a banged up back end and if you know football you'll see why the games have played out as they have.

[Digital_Damage]

You think if Donald quit right now he would be considered better than Young, Childress, Hampton, Randle and Culp?

Don't be an idiot.

Yes. Some writers and players say he's the GOAT defensive player, but he's not LT, yet.

Most put him at GOAT DT.

It is subjective, so you aren't wrong saying he's not, but even if you don't agree, there's valid argument.

3 DPOY, leads the NFL in sacks, pressures, win rate, double teams, and a lost of other things coming from the middle.

The way he dominates compared to his peers is in that rare legendary status.

He is not in the top 5... Yet. Best active player at his position? Sure, Best DT in the last decade, yes. But not the GOAT. Hate it when people misuse the label to describe the greatest of this generation.

Let me quantify it for you, not even the GOAT but in the top 10, maybe top 5

John Randle. (Another Tampa bay Bucs act of stupidity BTW)
471 tackles, 137 sacks, 29 forced fumbles
Career spanning 14 seasons.
The guy has stats that rival defensive ends.

For me Donald is right there with Sapp and could surpass him in a season or two.

[Snake]

We're not collapsing the middle of the pocket like we should be doing. Shaq's getting hosed in his matchups against the edge defenders. White has exactly zero quality rush techniques. Left side rush is fucking shit thus far. Combine all that with a banged up back end and if you know football you'll see why the games have played out as they have.

If White doesn’t have a clear path he’s probably not getting home. You nailed it. No moves, short arms, and he’s a linear movement kind of guy.

[Nobody]

McVay's offense features all the following:

* Outside Zone

* Play Action

* Exchanged/Rubbed/Picked Releases

* Horizontal Double Moves (like Whip routes)

* Bubble/Smoke/Tunnel Screens

* Jet/Short Motion and Misdirection-heavy

* They're efficient/precise

* They don't beat themselves with penalties

* They're aggressive on 4th and Short from their 38 onward (so you better generate a negative play and keep them out of 4th and Short)

* They feature the quick game (which nullifies edge players on a lot of snaps and then screws with their head/pass rush suite - they're all just trying to convert speed to power - on the few plays where they hold the ball) and selectively use double moves/verts after they've set you up


Unsurprisingly, the teams that have done well against them in the past have had fantastic perimeter play and Safety support. If you get smoked on the defensive side of the ball like we did, you can bet the CBs struggled + Edge players struggled + Safeties struggled. From what I could see from the telecast, our CBs were losing quickly, we were having miscommunication on Stack/Rub, a lack of coherence in situational depth at CB on the boundary (2 Zone looked to be a mess), missed tackles by DBs and/or lack of support from the ILB/S positions on perimeter Screens.

When we struggle in Man (particularly when we start losing badly against route combination that feature exchanged releases or rubs), Bowles has a tendency to play a lot of 2 Zone and Match Quarters. I saw some quick breakdowns/losses in those 2 coverages (Hitch + Corner combo and boundary CB not getting depth and lack of transitioning horizontal Under routes to the next guy).

Edwards had the catastrophic loss on the 2 Zone on the DJax TD (that is Edwards kryptonite...when he loses its a big one because he's got great instincts and sometimes he'll bit on what he thinks is a Dig when its actually a Skinny Post for 6).

Dean had the easiest Pick in the world fall to the ground.

Gronk dropped a huge Corner route for 30+ that would have changed the game and he and DSmith lost their 2v1 against AD for the Strip Sack.

Refs don't call a blatant OPI in the EZ on the LA rub route TD but then flag Gronk for a brutally ticky tack OPI (nothing about that looked like a callable rub...if you're routinely calling that, then NFL games would be littered with a gamebreaking amount of laundry) that turned 1st and 10 at midfield into 2nd and 20.


You're not beating this Rams team (who now has a great ball-handling QB who can hit dimes downfield as well) with those realities above. You make your plays when they're there, you catch a break on a call or 2 (certainly not the other way around), your CBs have to play fantastically with their eyes/feet/mouth/brain, you have to get physical and disrupt their boundary route combos timing, your interior 2nd level players (Safeties and ILBs) have to make tackles and maybe a play (TFL or FF+FR) in the Screen game and be sure when handling off horizontals in MQ, you can't have bad penalties that put you behind in down and distance in key situations (or put the Rams ahead of down and distance), you have to be aggressive as all hell (because McVay will be and the analytics support him in doing so), your Edge players have to be disciplined and dominant (Speed to Power players especially as they have the best chance of generating Pressure/TFLs against the quick game and the Jet/Outside Zone/PA Boot game).

And you have to accept that you're almost surely going to get outcoached so your best players have to be stars and playmakers. Brady showed up and Mike and Godwin were both very good and very efficient. Didn't have much outside of those 3. Nothing on the defensive side of the ball.

[Tnbandwagoner]

Go right to Dean to set the tone and drop an int thrown straight to him.

Any remote suspicion that Dean might not be worthless after all was obliterated with that play. An INT there would have made a world of difference.

[Rocker]

Welcome aboard, Nobody. I'll dig into your post when I'm sober.

[Tnbandwagoner]

context: first loss in eleven straight games; it was bound to happen eventually.

also context: the defensive front seven has regressed significantly and needs to be addressed urgently or this will be a long season.

if we had dominated the cowboys and falcons, today’s game gets chalked up to west coast travel and a 10-game winning streak finally coming to an end. no big deal. unfortunately, this is not the case and this team has serious concerns.

The front seven looks like a bunch of chumps that have been too busy reading their press clippings to actually prepare, train, etc. this season.

[Snake]

@Nobody

[Tnbandwagoner]

Frankly, their lines beat our lines; and a depleted secondary vs a healthy one tells the story of the game.

Kudos, Rams fans.

Bowles needs to stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

I think Bowles needs to try a lot harder to be the smartest guy, or even just one of the five smartest guys. He could start with making adjustments for a change. He seems unwilling to do that within a game, which is how 200 yards in a quarter happened last year, and how today happened this year.

[Snake]

your CBs have to play fantastically with their eyes/feet/mouth/brain

I think that’s asking more from our DBs than they’re capable of. Especially Dean.


I’m all about revenge. But if we could avoid the Rams in the playoffs I’m okay with that. It’s a bad matchup for the Bucs.

[uscbucsfan]

Yes. Some writers and players say he's the GOAT defensive player, but he's not LT, yet.

Most put him at GOAT DT.

It is subjective, so you aren't wrong saying he's not, but even if you don't agree, there's valid argument.

3 DPOY, leads the NFL in sacks, pressures, win rate, double teams, and a lost of other things coming from the middle.

The way he dominates compared to his peers is in that rare legendary status.

He is not in the top 5... Yet. Best active player at his position? Sure, Best DT in the last decade, yes. But not the GOAT. Hate it when people misuse the label to describe the greatest of this generation.

Let me quantify it for you, not even the GOAT but in the top 10, maybe top 5

John Randle. (Another Tampa bay Bucs act of stupidity BTW)
471 tackles, 137 sacks, 29 forced fumbles
Career spanning 14 seasons.
The guy has stats that rival defensive ends.

For me Donald is right there with Sapp and could surpass him in a season or two.

Again, this is subjective, but even Randle said in 2019 that Donald has potential to be LT like as far as changing the league.

Donald hasn't had the longevity, but there's a good argument for him being more dominant and unstoppable during his prime, with and without using stats. Donald already has the same amount of first team all-pro selections and obviously 3 more DPOY awards. Plus a 20 sack season.

Simply citing career stats is how you get terrible argument points that Emmitt Smith was better than Barry Sanders.

I love Sapp, but he's not in the same league as Donald historically at this point.

[Tnbandwagoner]

Fucking Rams had ONE penalty for 4 yards.

Incredible.

Completely apart from how wretched our defense was, that game was as corruptly officiated as any in the history of the league. They might as well have had Aikman and Buck announce that the league had decided to make sure the Bucs didn't trample the '72 Dolphins' immaculate season.

Multiple PIs uncalled, calling the PI on Gronk but not calling OPI on them multiple times, clothesline on Gronk uncalled, multiple late hits that should've been 15-yard penalties uncalled, etc.

[uscbucsfan]

Fucking Rams had ONE penalty for 4 yards.

Incredible.

Completely apart from how wretched our defense was, that game was as corruptly officiated as any in the history of the league. They might as well have had Aikman and Buck announce that the league had decided to make sure the Bucs didn't trample the '72 Dolphins' immaculate season.

Multiple PIs uncalled, clothesline on Gronk uncalled, multiple late hits that should've been 15-yard penalties uncalled, etc.

Every single loss you cite it as being corrupt or fixed, even when talking about Patriots losses, lol.

[Nobody]

@Rocker 10-4

@Snake Probably so

[King Bootz]

Fucking Rams had ONE penalty for 4 yards.

Incredible.

Completely apart from how wretched our defense was, that game was as corruptly officiated as any in the history of the league. They might as well have had Aikman and Buck announce that the league had decided to make sure the Bucs didn't trample the '72 Dolphins' immaculate season.

Multiple PIs uncalled, clothesline on Gronk uncalled, multiple late hits that should've been 15-yard penalties uncalled, etc.

I’m sorry, what? Corruptly officiated?? You think the refs were in collusion with…….who exactly to ensure a Bucs loss? We got beat. The officiating didn’t have a hand in us getting owned today.

[King Bootz]

@Nobody

I’m definitely borrowing this one.

[uscbucsfan]

Completely apart from how wretched our defense was, that game was as corruptly officiated as any in the history of the league. They might as well have had Aikman and Buck announce that the league had decided to make sure the Bucs didn't trample the '72 Dolphins' immaculate season.

Multiple PIs uncalled, clothesline on Gronk uncalled, multiple late hits that should've been 15-yard penalties uncalled, etc.

I’m sorry, what? Corruptly officiated?? You think the refs were in collusion with…….who exactly to ensure a Bucs loss? We got beat. The officiating didn’t have a hand in us getting owned today.

Bad calls suck and will always happen. Cowboys fans are still stuck on the Godwin push off and are convinced that was the league fixing things for Brady.

In hopes of avoiding the typical talking point about how many plays make up a game...if you watched that game and thought we were the better team outside of a few calls, you don't know what you were watching. They were the better team all game.

It means very little over the course of the season. We can still win it all or we may not, but this one game doesn't define shit.

[Primeminister]

@Nobody welcome!

[Tnbandwagoner]

Completely apart from how wretched our defense was, that game was as corruptly officiated as any in the history of the league. They might as well have had Aikman and Buck announce that the league had decided to make sure the Bucs didn't trample the '72 Dolphins' immaculate season.

Multiple PIs uncalled, clothesline on Gronk uncalled, multiple late hits that should've been 15-yard penalties uncalled, etc.

Every single loss you cite it as being corrupt or fixed, even when talking about Patriots losses, lol.

Not every single one - just the execrably obvious ones, like today.

[uscbucsfan]

Every single loss you cite it as being corrupt or fixed, even when talking about Patriots losses, lol.

Not every single one - just the execrably obvious ones, like today.

lol, sure.

[Snake]

Fucking Rams had ONE penalty for 4 yards.

Incredible.

Completely apart from how wretched our defense was, that game was as corruptly officiated as any in the history of the league. They might as well have had Aikman and Buck announce that the league had decided to make sure the Bucs didn't trample the '72 Dolphins' immaculate season.

Multiple PIs uncalled, clothesline on Gronk uncalled, multiple late hits that should've been 15-yard penalties uncalled, etc.

As you probably know, Tom Brady has been bailed out by refs in crucial spots multiple times in his career. I can name about 5 off the top of my head.

[Dread]

1st loss since Nov 29th of last year. Almost 10 months ago.

Rams played great. We didn't.

It's week 3. We have a great chance to open the season 3-1 after next week.

We have 14 games left and only the Bills have an offense that can keep pace.

We'll be fine. Enjoy the ride. As long as we're healthy heading into January and Tom Brady is our QB you have to like our chances for success.

[Tnbandwagoner]

I’m sorry, what? Corruptly officiated?? You think the refs were in collusion with…….who exactly to ensure a Bucs loss? We got beat. The officiating didn’t have a hand in us getting owned today.

Bad calls suck and will always happen. Cowboys fans are still stuck on the Godwin push off and are convinced that was the league fixing things for Brady.

In hopes of avoiding the typical talking point about how many plays make up a game...if you watched that game and thought we were the better team outside of a few calls, you don't know what you were watching. They were the better team all game.

It means very little over the course of the season. We can still win it all or we may not, but this one game doesn't define shit.

I have made multiple posts commenting on how horrifically our defense played. That in no way minimizes the impact the officiating had.

If two NFL teams play, and one has a different set of rules than the other, the team held to the stricter set has no chance. How many of our drives today were killed by penalties? How many of their completed passes, including at least one TD, involved a pick they ran that didn't get called?

We definitely weren't the better team today; but the game would have been close, and the outcome may have been different, had it been officiated honestly.

[King Bootz]

I’m sorry, what? Corruptly officiated?? You think the refs were in collusion with…….who exactly to ensure a Bucs loss? We got beat. The officiating didn’t have a hand in us getting owned today.

Bad calls suck and will always happen. Cowboys fans are still stuck on the Godwin push off and are convinced that was the league fixing things for Brady.

In hopes of avoiding the typical talking point about how many plays make up a game...if you watched that game and thought we were the better team outside of a few calls, you don't know what you were watching. They were the better team all game.

It means very little over the course of the season. We can still win it all or we may not, but this one game doesn't define shit.

QFT

[Snake]

I’m more bothered by the league seemingly not calling holding in the trenches (again). Hard to play defense that way.

[Primeminister]

I’m more bothered by the league seemingly not calling holding in the trenches (again). Hard to play defense that way.

Vea is constantly held and this has to play into the lack of double teams as well. When you can hold you don’t need to block.

[VauntedTampa2]

Committing only one penalty all game is hard to do. Flawless.

That wasn’t why we lost. At. All.

But it’s still impressive. Apparently we suck so bad they didn’t have to hold us, not even once haha

We will be fine

[Terry Tate]

Bad calls suck and will always happen. Cowboys fans are still stuck on the Godwin push off and are convinced that was the league fixing things for Brady.

In hopes of avoiding the typical talking point about how many plays make up a game...if you watched that game and thought we were the better team outside of a few calls, you don't know what you were watching. They were the better team all game.

It means very little over the course of the season. We can still win it all or we may not, but this one game doesn't define shit.

QFT

I've said it before but I'll repeat it. The officials are uniformly awful in that they hose all teams.

Even if the refs called a perfect game, we don't win that one. Not without a pass rush and not with as many screw ups we had in coverage.

I am inclined to think the players we were missing had a bigger part but then again, our pass rush wasn't doing anything special even at full strength. We need to hope that when we get players back healthy, the guys hit "midseason form" and start sealing the deal in the trenches.

[Draftline]

Yeah, in Detroit he had to play with bums like Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, Nate Burleson, Kenny Golladay, TJ Hockenson and Eric Ebron. Just to name a few.

But now he got a squad.

Enjoy it while it lasts. Because it won’t.

Dude, those are only receivers. The defense, online, running games, coaches he had in Detroit were bad. Now he has a complete squad. Offense defense and coaches. It's not all on him like it was in Detroit bro.

Thats the thing.. its a team sport.. de QB ends up looking bad with a bad defense. Even with good receivers etc.
I dont see a weak spot on your team except december and playoff is just soo soo different. And my.. have we seen some teams play great in september and pink october without getting anywhere in the end..

I like you. Less so today but you are still ok

[Jason Bourne]

Last year a lot of people were freaking out over Todd Bowles , we had ugly games and bounced back and we will again .

Something is going on with Dean, not sure what but his head isn’t in it .

The whole defense need some mental adjustment and some attention to detail .

Brady cannot lead us in rushing again … like ever

[Swashbuckler]

This is literally the worst loss in Bucs history.


We're all gonna die.


It's over

[BLT]

Down 2 of our top 3 corners and arguably our best pass rusher against a top 5 team in their stadium.

I didn’t think we were gonna win this game.

Looking at the rest of our schedule we could run the table.

[13F11B]

The morning after makes one thing clear.

The defense is not complimentary at this point. At this point, I would place more blame on the defensive line than the defensive backs (injuries) but those two units have to compliment each other and they are not. The run game is abysmal right now. While I don't expect this team to be a running team I do expect it to be able to produce a running game that keeps the defense honest.

On to the next game.

[Grahamburn]

A few plays needed to go our way that didn’t:

Dean dropped INT
GRONK dropped dime early (2nd drive?)
Whitehead forced fumble not recovered
GRONK phantom PI on Godwin big gain

Those go Tampa’s way it’s likely a much different outcome. Hopefully they learn from this.

[BLT]

Also, for the record our secondary is suspect even without the injuries, and they were all last year too.