The Official 2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Bootz]

Kancey was a luxury pick I don’t think we could afford… unless they really are sold on 30 year old Barrett coming back from a knee and current bust JTS righting the ship??

You say Kancey was a luxury pick we couldn't afford.....Then quite literally explain why we needed a player like him to add to the pass rush...

Make it make sense.

[Sdbucs]

Kancey was a luxury pick I don’t think we could afford… unless they really are sold on 30 year old Barrett coming back from a knee and current bust JTS righting the ship??

Dude what

When is Dline ever a luxury pick? Especially when it’s an area you just said we need improvement at

[Navybuc]

Nobody knows on this guy. NFL Network is absolutely ripping the Bucs apart this morning calling it one of the worst picks in the first round, but they don’t know. We won’t know for three years.

I thought Levis would have been a good pivot. I know Licht is prolly dead set on next year being about Mayfield vs Trask, but damn, it would have been nice to throw Levis in that convo. But I get we have other concerns. Also have a sneaky suspicion the Jags got a great pick at OT with Harrison. He would have looked good in Bucs uni.

[Doctor]

I don't think we could afford to pass on Kancey. Clearly a massive injection of talent to the defense.

[Snake]

sounds like he graded out really well in coverage in CFB, too. like the best possibly.

Seems like Fred Warner 2.0 if he pans out. definitely gonna be better than Devin fuckface White.

[Snake]

Seahawks have added a metric s-load of drafted talent the last few years.

[Navybuc]

sounds like he graded out really well in coverage in CFB, too. like the best possibly.

Seems like Fred Warner 2.0 if he pans out. definitely gonna be better than Devin fuckface White.

I like their Campbell pick. But drafting Gibbs 12th? They could have gotten him in the second round prolly. Plus they have Swift who I think is really good when used right and healthy and just got Montgomery. The Lions are the biggest head-scratcher. They’re prolly trading Swift now, in which case I’d be all in on that trade.

[Doctor]

Except... not....

Listen I'm not going to say I have Gibbs that high because I didn't, but plenty of teams were making Kamara comparisons. The critical fact that people keep missing when it comes to the draft is it only takes ONE TEAM to also like the guy you like for him not to be there on your "next pick". Just one.

So if you like the guy and really believe he is what you think he is you take him. Fuck draft value this and all that.

[Babeinbucland]

Greg Auman
@gregauman

Pitt DL coach Charlie Partridge on Bucs rookie Calijah Kancey: "He can draw up all 22 guys on the field and tell you who's doing what and why. He understands and can predict protections. He's worked hard to learn the game, and not just a 'I have the A gap or B gap' perspective."

[Navybuc]

Except... not....

Listen I'm not going to say I have Gibbs that high because I didn't, but plenty of teams were making Kamara comparisons. The critical fact that people keep missing when it comes to the draft is it only takes ONE TEAM to also like the guy you like for him not to be there on your "next pick". Just one.

So if you like the guy and really believe he is what you think he is you take him. Fuck draft value this and all that.

Oh I like Gibbs. But 12th for an RB? Same with the Falcons and Bijan. Some of the game’s best RBs are late round picks, including Kamara. I’m just not a fan of using a first round pick on an RB. They have such a short shelf life. I think Swift was a late first round of early second pick and now look at that situation.

[Bootz]

"Shelf life" is relative and a draft narrative based in nothing. It's quite irrelevant actually. Devin White is only going into year 5 and people want to get rid of him. His "shelf life" is pointless. People think Tua should retire after 3 years in the league.

If a guy fits what you want to do today, you get him. That's what Gibbs represents for Detroit.

[Snake]

sounds like he graded out really well in coverage in CFB, too. like the best possibly.

Seems like Fred Warner 2.0 if he pans out. definitely gonna be better than Devin fuckface White.

I like their Campbell pick. But drafting Gibbs 12th? They could have gotten him in the second round prolly. Plus they have Swift who I think is really good when used right and healthy and just got Montgomery. The Lions are the biggest head-scratcher. They’re prolly trading Swift now, in which case I’d be all in on that trade.

Yeah, they're definitely zig'ing when the modern thinking is saying 'zag. I understand the logic if they feel they are a few pieces away from making a run. you can disregard "positional value" when you're trying to edge out marginal win expectancies on the top end of the win curve.

I heard a baseball GM talk about this. basically, the better your team gets, the more you expect to pay for wins and/or find wins in different places.

“why are you paying a closer so much money when the brainiacs say you shouldn’t pay relievers?”

well, our rotation is really good and there isn't a clear upgrade anywhere in the lineup. you improve where you can find it.

This gets a lot more complicated for football with all the moving pieces and the butterfly effect of 22 guys interacting with each other, but I think it overall applies the same. let's just hope the Lions take a step forward.

[Navybuc]

"Shelf life" is relative and a draft narrative based in nothing. It's quite irrelevant actually. Devin White is only going into year 5 and people want to get rid of him. His "shelf life" is pointless. People think Tua should retire after 3 years in the league.

If a guy fits what you want to do today, you get him. That's what Gibbs represents for Detroit.

I get that, and I like Gibbs…but 12th? Even he said he was shocked. He had his mouth open like Vontae Mack when the Browns took him 1 on Draft Day. Especially because they have Swift who I think is a top 5 back in the NFL when he’s healthy, and Montgomery, another great back…but nobody really to throw to. Their WR corps is average at best, especially after trading away Hockenson.

[Snake]

The first person that comes to mind for me re: Gibbs is Jahvid Best. Whose career was ended by concussions. A scat back type who is dual-threat with track speed. Gibbs is mores sudden in his game and looks more natural as an athlete, but that stop and go shit he did in college...not so sure about that in the NFL.

I don't see Kamara. Kamara was like 20# bigger coming out and not as fast linearly.

[Doctor]

"Shelf life" is relative and a draft narrative based in nothing. It's quite irrelevant actually. Devin White is only going into year 5 and people want to get rid of him. His "shelf life" is pointless. People think Tua should retire after 3 years in the league.

If a guy fits what you want to do today, you get him. That's what Gibbs represents for Detroit.

Exactly, "shelf life" is a silly factor to give much weight to. This isn't Madden and this idea of having a "position set for 15 years" is silly. Nor do you get any rings from it. How many positions were the Jim Kelly Bills or modern 49ers "set" at and how many rings has that resulted in? It's a nice thing to have but it's the MEANS to a goal, it should not be the goal itself. Between regime changes, scheme changes, etc, NFL operates on a 2-3 year basis, not 10-15.

White is actually a great example. While I would obviously love for him to be a career Buc, whether or not he is isn't going to change the fact that he was an absolute home run pick. Because even though he may be here for "only" 5 years, he was such a huge piece to the defense during that time that it resulted in the only thing that should really matters- a SB winning playoff run.

The Lions believe they have a window right now. If Gibbs can help that window actually bear fruit, they are absolutely right to take him. Having the right pieces in any given year to go the full distance is far more important than having great pieces for many years that just fall short.

[Snake]

Joey Porter Jr. was a player who many people had going in the first round. A Penn St. CB, you probably recognize his name. His dad was a pro bowler.



Freakish wingspan. He has an Ape Index of nearly 1.1. Larger AI than Michael Phelps.
Good enough straight line speed. 4.45 40, 35" vert. Being tall and having long arms helps a lot.
Change of direction and stiffer hips have been identified as average to below. Which may lock him into certain looks/schemes.
Extremely physical at LOS. Long enough to match up with some TEs.

Basically a press dream.

[Doctor]

Too handsy for my taste. Prefer Ringo over Porter Jr.

[Sdbucs]

Are early first round DBs actually panning out? I feel like DBs are like RBs where they're a dime a dozen and you basically just need to find an athlete, which can be done throughout the draft. This isn't rooted in data or anything, but I'd feel the same disappointment with a CB at #5 overall as I would a RB.

[Snake]

Ringo also draws plenty of penalties. had 9 last season. in addition to getting burned in general.

[Backside]

Are early first round DBs actually panning out? I feel like DBs are like RBs where they're a dime a dozen and you basically just need to find an athlete, which can be done throughout the draft. This isn't rooted in data or anything, but I'd feel the same disappointment with a CB at #5 overall as I would a RB.

Sauce Gardner would like a word.

[Doctor]

Are early first round DBs actually panning out? I feel like DBs are like RBs where they're a dime a dozen and you basically just need to find an athlete, which can be done throughout the draft. This isn't rooted in data or anything, but I'd feel the same disappointment with a CB at #5 overall as I would a RB.

[Snake]

Are early first round DBs actually panning out? I feel like DBs are like RBs where they're a dime a dozen and you basically just need to find an athlete, which can be done throughout the draft. This isn't rooted in data or anything, but I'd feel the same disappointment with a CB at #5 overall as I would a RB.

CBs seems 50/50 at this point. You have your Hargreaves and Henderson's. You also have your Surtain's and your Gardner's.

[Sdbucs]

Are early first round DBs actually panning out? I feel like DBs are like RBs where they're a dime a dozen and you basically just need to find an athlete, which can be done throughout the draft. This isn't rooted in data or anything, but I'd feel the same disappointment with a CB at #5 overall as I would a RB.

Sauce Gardner would like a word.

I'm doing a very quick look with my coffee -

Past 5 years the number of DBs taken in first round that have made a pro bowl (I don't know all these names so I'm going off of that metric)

2018 - 4/6 - Denzel Ward 4 overall, Minkah Fitzpatrick 11 overall, Derwin James 17 overall, Jaire Alexander 18 overall
2019 - 0/3
2020 - 0/6
2021 - 1/5 - Patrick Surtain II taken 9 overall
2022 - 1/7 - Sauce Garnder taken 4 overall

6/27 - 22% of first round DBs in past 5 years have made a pro bowl...

Not the best metric because players develop over time but

[Snake]

Sauce Gardner would like a word.

I'm doing a very quick look with my coffee -

Past 5 years the number of DBs taken in first round that have made a pro bowl (I don't know all these names so I'm going off of that metric)

2018 - 4/6 - Denzel Ward 4 overall, Minkah Fitzpatrick 11 overall, Derwin James 17 overall, Jaire Alexander 18 overall
2019 - 0/3
2020 - 0/6
2021 - 1/5 - Patrick Surtain II taken 9 overall
2022 - 1/7 - Sauce Garnder taken 4 overall

6/27 - 22% of first round DBs in past 5 years have made a pro bowl

With the vast majority of plays in the current NFL averaging between 3-4 WRs on the field at a time, one must question how valuable a single CB is, right?

[Cheb]

"Shelf life" is relative and a draft narrative based in nothing. It's quite irrelevant actually. Devin White is only going into year 5 and people want to get rid of him. His "shelf life" is pointless. People think Tua should retire after 3 years in the league.

If a guy fits what you want to do today, you get him. That's what Gibbs represents for Detroit.

I get that, and I like Gibbs…but 12th? Even he said he was shocked. He had his mouth open like Vontae Mack when the Browns took him 1 on Draft Day. Especially because they have Swift who I think is a top 5 back in the NFL when he’s healthy, and Montgomery, another great back…but nobody really to throw to. Their WR corps is average at best, especially after trading away Hockenson.

Swift and Montgomery are both decent runners but nothing special. Jamaal Williams left for the Saints in free agency, and they need to replace his production in some form.

Moreover, the Lions dump off the ball to their backs ALOT; DeAndre Swift was their second leading receiver by receptions with 48 but he didn't even top 400 yards receiving. If you get the ball to a more dynamic receiving back, as Gibbs is likely to be, then one could (rightly I feel) argue that the offense just became much more explosive.

I'd agree with your general thrust about needing more receiving talent. Outside of the Sun God, their best receiving option is I guess Marvin Jones? But there's six more rounds in the draft for them to address that, and I'm sure they'll give Goff more friends to play with.

[Sdbucs]

I'm doing a very quick look with my coffee -

Past 5 years the number of DBs taken in first round that have made a pro bowl (I don't know all these names so I'm going off of that metric)

2018 - 4/6 - Denzel Ward 4 overall, Minkah Fitzpatrick 11 overall, Derwin James 17 overall, Jaire Alexander 18 overall
2019 - 0/3
2020 - 0/6
2021 - 1/5 - Patrick Surtain II taken 9 overall
2022 - 1/7 - Sauce Garnder taken 4 overall

6/27 - 22% of first round DBs in past 5 years have made a pro bowl

With the vast majority of plays in the current NFL averaging between 3-4 WRs on the field at a time, one must question how valuable a single CB is, right?

That's part of why I value them in my head similar to a RB. You might get Revis island, but is that more impactful than a JJ Watt off the edge? No. So at 5 overall I'm gunning for Watt, not Revis

[Miller4Prez64]

Are early first round DBs actually panning out? I feel like DBs are like RBs where they're a dime a dozen and you basically just need to find an athlete, which can be done throughout the draft. This isn't rooted in data or anything, but I'd feel the same disappointment with a CB at #5 overall as I would a RB.

CBs seems 50/50 at this point. You have your Hargreaves and Henderson's. You also have your Surtain's and your Gardner's.

This is literally every position to be fair. Some players work out, some don’t. NFL is far too competitive for every talented kid coming out of college to make an impact.

[acmillis]

Greg Auman
@gregauman

Pitt DL coach Charlie Partridge on Bucs rookie Calijah Kancey: "He can draw up all 22 guys on the field and tell you who's doing what and why. He understands and can predict protections. He's worked hard to learn the game, and not just a 'I have the A gap or B gap' perspective."

Cane he play QB?!?!?

[Snake]

CBs seems 50/50 at this point. You have your Hargreaves and Henderson's. You also have your Surtain's and your Gardner's.

This is literally every position to be fair. Some players work out, some don’t. NFL is far too competitive for every talented kid coming out of college to make an impact.

CB seems to have an element of stars or mega-bust though. must be the nature of the position.

[Cheb]

So we pick at #19 in the second round, 50th overall. Here's a quick-and-dirty big board:

Hell Yeah (1-2):
- Brian Branch, DB, Alabama
- Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State

That's a Good Pick (3-9):
- Matthew Bergeron, OT, Syracuse
- Cody Mauch, OL, North Dakota State
- Michael Mayer, TE, Notre Dame
- Joey Porter, CB, Penn St
- O'Cyrus Torrence, G, Florida
- DJ Turner, CB, Michigan
- Darnell Washington, TE, Georgia

Was Hoping For Better But Okay (10-22):
- Josh Downs, WR, North Carolina
- Isaiah Foskey, DE, Notre Dame
- Jalin Hyatt, WR, Tennessee
- Sam LaPorta, TE, Iowa
- Luke Misgrave, TE, Oregon State
- Jonathan Mingo, WR, Ole Miss
- Kelee Ringo, CB, Georgia
- Drew Sanders, LB, Arkansas
- Tyrique Stevenson, CB, Miami
- John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota
- Joe Tippmann, C, Wisconsin
- Tuli Tuipulotu, Edge, USC
- Keion White, DE, Georgia Tech

Oh Jeeze (22-25):
- Steve Avila, G, TCU
- Keeanu Benton, DT, Wisconsin
- Hendon Hooker, QB, Tennessee
- Will Levis, QB, Kentucky

[mdb1958]

Adetomiwa Adebawore
Keion White
Tuli Tuipulotu
Warren McClendon
Blake Freeland
Matthew Bergeron
and Zack Kuntz - where we get more out of him than he ever dreamed possible.

[Sdbucs]

So we pick at #19 in the second round, 50th overall. Here's a quick-and-dirty big board:

- Brian Branch, DB, Alabama
- Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State
- Matthew Bergeron, OT, Syracuse
- Cody Mauch, OL, North Dakota State
- Michael Mayer, TE, Notre Dame
- Joey Porter, CB, Penn St
- O'Cyrus Torrence, G, Florida
- DJ Turner, CB, Michigan
- Darnell Washington, TE, Georgia
- Josh Downs, WR, North Carolina
- Isaiah Foskey, DE, Notre Dame
- Jalin Hyatt, WR, Tennessee
- Jonathan Mingo, WR, Ole Miss
- Kelee Ringo, CB, Georgia
- Drew Sanders, LB, Arkansas
- Tyrique Stevenson, CB, Miami
- Keion White, DE, Georgia Tech
- Steve Avila, G, TCU
- Will Levis, QB, Kentucky

Happy with anyone up there, especially bold

[Sdbucs]

Darnell Washington is basically an O-line that can catch

[TonyLip]

That guy??
He’s a runaway beer truck!!!

lol
Do it Dom!!

[Sdbucs]

That guy??
He’s a runaway beer truck!!!

lol
Do it Dom!!

Darnell Washington
Height - 6'7"
Weight - 269
Hand Size - 11
Arm length - 34.8
40 yard - 4.64


Gronk
Height - 6'6"
Weight - 258
Hand Size - 10.75
Arm Length - 34.25
40 yard - 4.68


Both known for being nasty blockers. I feel like your goal in finding a TE should be to find Gronk (as opposed to a Kelce/Ertz type mold). Darnell certainly measures closely