Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
- BuccaNOLEer
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
The Bucs failed to address their biggest need in the draft.... LT. They had one available that could've been a starter for the next decade in Anton Harrison and passed on him. Word out of OBP is that they plan to move Wirfs to LT and set Godeke up to play RT after his failed stunt at LG. That's going to come back to bite them in the ass, I guarantee it.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
The team is in year 0 to -1 of what should probably be a 5-6 year competitive cycle. Trying to fill every single hole in one offseason - especially with 1/4 of the cap being “dead” - isn’t realistic.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 9:28 am The Bucs failed to address their biggest need in the draft.... LT. They had one available that could've been a starter for the next decade in Anton Harrison and passed on him. Word out of OBP is that they plan to move Wirfs to LT and set Godeke up to play RT after his failed stunt at LG. That's going to come back to bite them in the ass, I guarantee it.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Rookie Mini Camp Invites
Southeastern QB Kaylan Wiggins (per Aaron Wilson)
South Carolina C Eric Douglas (per Logan Brown Sports)
Utah State S Hunter Reynolds (per Tanner Phifer)
USF LB Dwayne Boyles (per Greg Auman)
Incarnate Word QB Lindsey Scott (per Tom Pelissero)
They need to give this guy a rookie contract fast.
Southeastern QB Kaylan Wiggins (per Aaron Wilson)
South Carolina C Eric Douglas (per Logan Brown Sports)
Utah State S Hunter Reynolds (per Tanner Phifer)
USF LB Dwayne Boyles (per Greg Auman)
Incarnate Word QB Lindsey Scott (per Tom Pelissero)
They need to give this guy a rookie contract fast.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
I think the Godeke hate is rather unfair. He was one of these agressive OT's kicked into OG projects that you feel good about fielding in year 2 or 3. Injuries force him in early. He played all of 5 minutes and had to face 5 probowlers.
I think Mauch needs to add some weight and will probably also be served best more rotational than fully depended on in his first year.
All these guys from Luke to Cody to Tristin and Hainsey are 6'5 guys 305-320lbs and have lots of versatility. There's going to be some growing pains are we discover the optimal alignment, but all are exactly the kind of "hog mollies" and "dancing bears" Licht wants up front.
I think Mauch needs to add some weight and will probably also be served best more rotational than fully depended on in his first year.
All these guys from Luke to Cody to Tristin and Hainsey are 6'5 guys 305-320lbs and have lots of versatility. There's going to be some growing pains are we discover the optimal alignment, but all are exactly the kind of "hog mollies" and "dancing bears" Licht wants up front.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Bucnation seems to think they may even look at Cody Mauch for center.
- BuccaNOLEer
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Where did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.Snake wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 10:07 amThe team is in year 0 to -1 of what should probably be a 5-6 year competitive cycle. Trying to fill every single hole in one offseason - especially with 1/4 of the cap being “dead” - isn’t realistic.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 9:28 am The Bucs failed to address their biggest need in the draft.... LT. They had one available that could've been a starter for the next decade in Anton Harrison and passed on him. Word out of OBP is that they plan to move Wirfs to LT and set Godeke up to play RT after his failed stunt at LG. That's going to come back to bite them in the ass, I guarantee it.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:16 amWhere did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.
All I care to know is how many times did they try to trade down - during a private meeting.
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
The writing is on the wall in big bold letters that Wirfs is moving to LT.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:16 amWhere did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.
And what's unbearable? When your competitive window is open addressing needs is important. When you're rebuilding it's not so much.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
I'd rather make Wirf's the highest paid right tackle instead of the highest paid left tackle - but I don't think right.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
We have a thread dedicated to such signings.mdb1958 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 10:42 am Rookie Mini Camp Invites
Southeastern QB Kaylan Wiggins (per Aaron Wilson)
South Carolina C Eric Douglas (per Logan Brown Sports)
Utah State S Hunter Reynolds (per Tanner Phifer)
USF LB Dwayne Boyles (per Greg Auman)
Incarnate Word QB Lindsey Scott (per Tom Pelissero)
They need to give this guy a rookie contract fast.
http://www.itsabucslife.com/viewtopic.php?t=1291
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Per Rick Stroud the Bucs are officially moving Wirfs to LT with Goedeke playing RT.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 9:28 am The Bucs failed to address their biggest need in the draft.... LT. They had one available that could've been a starter for the next decade in Anton Harrison and passed on him. Word out of OBP is that they plan to move Wirfs to LT and set Godeke up to play RT after his failed stunt at LG. That's going to come back to bite them in the ass, I guarantee it.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
They are moving an all-pro tackle to LT. They obviously don't see it as the biggest hole, quite the contrary.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:16 amWhere did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Another take away:
Jason Licht turned 9 draft picks in this draft (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2 5ths, 3 6ths, 1 7th)& 7 in next years draft into 8 picks in this draft (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2 5ths, 3 6ths) & 6 next year.
Jason Licht turned 9 draft picks in this draft (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2 5ths, 3 6ths, 1 7th)& 7 in next years draft into 8 picks in this draft (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2 5ths, 3 6ths) & 6 next year.
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- BuccaNOLEer
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
I don't see a competitive window here at all. I was all in favor of tearing down and rebuilding. Licht obviously isn't going to do that because it will cost him his job. So he's going to make moves that set this team back even further.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:27 amThe writing is on the wall in big bold letters that Wirfs is moving to LT.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:16 am
Where did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.
And what's unbearable? When your competitive window is open addressing needs is important. When you're rebuilding it's not so much.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:41 amWe have a thread dedicated to such signings.mdb1958 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 10:42 am Rookie Mini Camp Invites
Southeastern QB Kaylan Wiggins (per Aaron Wilson)
South Carolina C Eric Douglas (per Logan Brown Sports)
Utah State S Hunter Reynolds (per Tanner Phifer)
USF LB Dwayne Boyles (per Greg Auman)
Incarnate Word QB Lindsey Scott (per Tom Pelissero)
They need to give this guy a rookie contract fast.
http://www.itsabucslife.com/viewtopic.php?t=1291
Come on now Bootz - you know you wanted to say "who".
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Our biggest hole is/was our D-line, with O-line a step behind.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:16 amWhere did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.
We took a DT, then OL, then DE.
Nothing to fill holes?
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Really weird draft. You can absolutely make a case that rounds 6 and 7 are "priority UDFA picks," so that is fair enough. But it absolutely looks like we extended that to round 5 this year. The other strange confounder is the random pivot on "draft profile" that took place this draft. It just looks like the assessment lens is all over the place. Sometimes its athletic indices + hope. Sometimes its athletic indices + tape + production. Sometimes its total snaps and processing and scheme/position archetype fit, athletic indices be damned. Its almost like we've got several different chefs (scouts/head of regions or whatever) who have wildly different approaches to assessing prospects and a draft board is grafted out of that strange marriage of totally divergent viewpoints. I don't know its just weird.
I already commented on the top 3 guys elsewhere, but I've taken a shallow look at the next 3 guys between 153 and 181. I've looked at different draft boards, athletic profiles, tape, production, and advanced metrics for these other picks. Just some quick thoughts:
SIRVOCEA DENNIS (ILB): This is nearing the inverse of the White pick except for the scheme fit (they both share that). Under control, assignment sound football player across responsibilities. Read and react loop is solid. Certainly physical enough. However, his play speed is not great (that is charitable) and therefore he has to make up for it with instincts, processing, and some gambles. Seems rather leader/captain-ish so there is that throughline of our assessments. He looks like a poor man's LVD in terms of processing (he's solid while LVD is world-class) and nowhere even close to LVD's actual play-speed.
Pick 153 and I would be shocked if he was higher than 200 on most draft boards out there. This looks like a classic priority UDFA. Weird prioritizing of this pick here.
PAYNE DURHAM (TE): This is the TE version of Dennis above. Not catch-point dominant. Not after-the-catch dominant. Not route-running dominant. Not in-line dominant. Not an athletic mover. But does all_the_things in a pretty expected way. This pick is probably right around what you would expect. These guys go right here. Does "the things" the Y TE should do with no real traits to project ascendance. Midling Floor, nothing stands out to give expression to an assessment more than "Standard/Low Ceiling." Special Teams contributor.
JOSH HAYES (DB): I'm not even going to pretend to understand this one. I mean...I just don't understand this one at all. This doesn't even look like a priority FA. I don't see what they're seeing here. Not seeing explosive traits. Not seeing a fantastic mover. Not seeing a fantastic read & react loop or coverage awareness. Where are all the forced incompletions, wins in coverage (or losses averted), and plays made in the passing game? Gang of missed tackles.
I mean...typically here you see guys with some crazy athletic traits or frame that either (a) didn't play much or (b) it didn't translate and there is this hope that "they can be molded." Or you see guys with incredible instincts and great tape + production but holes in their athletic profile. I don't see any of those things. Frame? Athletic traits? Incredible instincts? Tape? Production? Don't see any of those things.
This feels like the MJ Stewart head-scratcher pick. Maybe there is some secret sauce there somewhere...but this pick evades me entirely at this point.
+++++++++++++
Last two picks both make a ton of sense.
First two picks both make a ton of sense (particularly given our history).
Fifth pick is a total stock, straight-forward pick.
Third pick looks a little "reach-ey" to me (for the reasons I espoused earlier; no bend/flexion/CoD/slipperiness, raw hand-usage, pass rush plan isn't there, snap anticipation is questionable, pass rush suite is limited) but you can understand due to scheme fit and archetype (linear explosivity + length + Speed to Power and Longarm game + good Twist/Loop player that can be a subpackage contributor and man that left Edge situationally against right-side, pocket-escaping, mobile QBs.
Fourth and Sixth picks (especially the sixth) are head-scratcher-ish in terms of our archetypes and our in-house board value for these guys.
Weird, kinda uneven draft that seems to just sort of...range (as they have been for the last little while). However, I can easily see Dennis supplanting Britt (but that is an indictment of Britt as much as it is an endorsement of Dennis...though I do love in-control, assignment-sound-ey football players).
I already commented on the top 3 guys elsewhere, but I've taken a shallow look at the next 3 guys between 153 and 181. I've looked at different draft boards, athletic profiles, tape, production, and advanced metrics for these other picks. Just some quick thoughts:
SIRVOCEA DENNIS (ILB): This is nearing the inverse of the White pick except for the scheme fit (they both share that). Under control, assignment sound football player across responsibilities. Read and react loop is solid. Certainly physical enough. However, his play speed is not great (that is charitable) and therefore he has to make up for it with instincts, processing, and some gambles. Seems rather leader/captain-ish so there is that throughline of our assessments. He looks like a poor man's LVD in terms of processing (he's solid while LVD is world-class) and nowhere even close to LVD's actual play-speed.
Pick 153 and I would be shocked if he was higher than 200 on most draft boards out there. This looks like a classic priority UDFA. Weird prioritizing of this pick here.
PAYNE DURHAM (TE): This is the TE version of Dennis above. Not catch-point dominant. Not after-the-catch dominant. Not route-running dominant. Not in-line dominant. Not an athletic mover. But does all_the_things in a pretty expected way. This pick is probably right around what you would expect. These guys go right here. Does "the things" the Y TE should do with no real traits to project ascendance. Midling Floor, nothing stands out to give expression to an assessment more than "Standard/Low Ceiling." Special Teams contributor.
JOSH HAYES (DB): I'm not even going to pretend to understand this one. I mean...I just don't understand this one at all. This doesn't even look like a priority FA. I don't see what they're seeing here. Not seeing explosive traits. Not seeing a fantastic mover. Not seeing a fantastic read & react loop or coverage awareness. Where are all the forced incompletions, wins in coverage (or losses averted), and plays made in the passing game? Gang of missed tackles.
I mean...typically here you see guys with some crazy athletic traits or frame that either (a) didn't play much or (b) it didn't translate and there is this hope that "they can be molded." Or you see guys with incredible instincts and great tape + production but holes in their athletic profile. I don't see any of those things. Frame? Athletic traits? Incredible instincts? Tape? Production? Don't see any of those things.
This feels like the MJ Stewart head-scratcher pick. Maybe there is some secret sauce there somewhere...but this pick evades me entirely at this point.
+++++++++++++
Last two picks both make a ton of sense.
First two picks both make a ton of sense (particularly given our history).
Fifth pick is a total stock, straight-forward pick.
Third pick looks a little "reach-ey" to me (for the reasons I espoused earlier; no bend/flexion/CoD/slipperiness, raw hand-usage, pass rush plan isn't there, snap anticipation is questionable, pass rush suite is limited) but you can understand due to scheme fit and archetype (linear explosivity + length + Speed to Power and Longarm game + good Twist/Loop player that can be a subpackage contributor and man that left Edge situationally against right-side, pocket-escaping, mobile QBs.
Fourth and Sixth picks (especially the sixth) are head-scratcher-ish in terms of our archetypes and our in-house board value for these guys.
Weird, kinda uneven draft that seems to just sort of...range (as they have been for the last little while). However, I can easily see Dennis supplanting Britt (but that is an indictment of Britt as much as it is an endorsement of Dennis...though I do love in-control, assignment-sound-ey football players).
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
I don't have much of an issue with him trading the later round picks in this draft to move up in earlier rounds. It's the 5th next year for the 6th this year that irks me. Hoping that WR learns to catch and we can use that 4.33 speed.
Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
That trade was all kinds of stupidity. But honestly it tells me he thinks this could be on his way out. GMs don't generally borrow from the future for such small gains without feeling some type of pressure
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- BuccaNOLEer
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Our biggest hole was the O-Line. That O-Line was a patchwork quilt last year and it showed with the offensive production.Sdbucs wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 4:03 pmOur biggest hole is/was our D-line, with O-line a step behind.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:16 am
Where did I say fill all the holes? The fact that they did little to nothing to fill their biggest hole irks me. And that's typical Licht and it's becoming unbearable with him.
We took a DT, then OL, then DE.
Nothing to fill holes?
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Re: Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways
Seems like they really emphasized special teams and “football players” to me whereas in the past they’ve looked to hit upside home runs on guys with elite traits.