Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:16 pm
With half the cap tied behind our backs our staff still put out a better squad than anything Cousins has ever had?
And we want to clean house?
Make it make sense.
Who said we need to clean house? We have a solid team that really only needs the middle of the OLine addressed and QB position. We were just Super Bowl contenders 24 months ago and didn't really lose a lot. Who did we lose over the last 2 seasons that made you say, "oh God, we're screwed"?
The QB just threw for 686 yards and 6 TDs in 2 playoff games. We need to address the QB position?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
We lost:
Ali Marpet
Ryan Jensen
Donovan Smith
Antonio Brown
Rob Gronkowski
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:25 pm
Anyone "afraid" of a $105mil guaranteed contract for a QB is living in the past.
$105mil would rank 13th amongst QB guarantees. Less than Jared Goff at $126mil, more than Derek Carr at $100mil. The only QBs below that who aren't on rookie deals would be in order Daniel Jones, Ryan Tannehill, Aaron Rodgers, Jimmy G, and Geno Smith.
The salary cap isn't $65mil anymore.
I guess my other thinking is this:
Baker had a good season against an easy schedule.
The gauntlet next year:
HOME: PHI, WAS, DEN, LV, ATL, NO, CAR, SF, BAL
AWAY: DAL, NYG, KC, LAC, ATL, NO, CAR, DET
If he gets through next season with similar/better production, pay that man his money. Until then, he's the dude that picked on the also rans of the NFL this season.
We had a gauntlet this year as well. 6 playoff teams (PHI,GB, HOU, DET, BUFF, and SF), 10 games against teams with winning records ( playoff teams plus NO x2, JAX, IND). Two games against Carolina lowered the schedule's winning percentage, but I'd hardly call this year's 'easy'.
Just like this season and last, we're playing a 1st place schedule.
Based on this year's results, that means we play 6 playoff teams from this season, 8 that have winning records.
Who said we need to clean house? We have a solid team that really only needs the middle of the OLine addressed and QB position. We were just Super Bowl contenders 24 months ago and didn't really lose a lot. Who did we lose over the last 2 seasons that made you say, "oh God, we're screwed"?
The QB just threw for 686 yards and 6 TDs in 2 playoff games. We need to address the QB position?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
We lost:
Ali Marpet
Ryan Jensen
Donovan Smith
Antonio Brown
Rob Gronkowski
Who said we need to clean house? We have a solid team that really only needs the middle of the OLine addressed and QB position. We were just Super Bowl contenders 24 months ago and didn't really lose a lot. Who did we lose over the last 2 seasons that made you say, "oh God, we're screwed"?
The QB just threw for 686 yards and 6 TDs in 2 playoff games. We need to address the QB position?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
We lost:
Ali Marpet
Ryan Jensen
Donovan Smith
Antonio Brown
Rob Gronkowski
He did that against a team that quit and both teams had bottom 7 pass defenses in the NFL. Stop making him better than what he is.
Wirfs is an upgrade over Smith so "meh". Gronk was gone after the 2020... not 2021, when we still had a shot at the Super Bowl. Brown was no loss, who are you kidding? If Godwin doesn't tear his ACL, I still think we win back-to-back Super Bowls. So Marpet and Jensen are the only 2. Like I said, we need to improve the middle of our OLine. Funny thing is, we still had a top 10 pass blocking offensive line. I'd rather save the money going to Mayfield and spend that on the middle of our OLine. At that point, any "QB off the scrap heap" should at least put us at 9-wins (where did I see that before?). Plus, it keeps the trade up option open. If the Bucs give Mayfield an extension, then trade up to take a QB, how does that look? Now, if they give Mayfield a 1-yr / $18M deal and trade up, I'm ok with that. I won't complain. I just don't think that kind of deal is going to happen.
The QB just threw for 686 yards and 6 TDs in 2 playoff games. We need to address the QB position?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
We lost:
Ali Marpet
Ryan Jensen
Donovan Smith
Antonio Brown
Rob Gronkowski
He did that against a team that quit and both teams had bottom 7 pass defenses in the NFL. Stop making him better than what he is.
Wirfs is an upgrade over Smith so "meh". Gronk was gone after the 2020... not 2021, when we still had a shot at the Super Bowl. Brown was no loss, who are you kidding? If Godwin doesn't tear his ACL, I still think we win back-to-back Super Bowls. So Marpet and Jensen are the only 2. Like I said, we need to improve the middle of our OLine. Funny thing is, we still had a top 10 pass blocking offensive line. I'd rather save the money going to Mayfield and spend that on the middle of our OLine. At that point, any "QB off the scrap heap" should at least put us at 9-wins (where did I see that before?). Plus, it keeps the trade up option open. If the Bucs give Mayfield an extension, then trade up to take a QB, how does that look? Now, if they give Mayfield a 1-yr / $18M deal and trade up, I'm ok with that. I won't complain. I just don't think that kind of deal is going to happen.
I think if Tristen doesn't get hurt for the Divisonal against the Rams as well.
I don’t know. Trying to somehow blame that loss on the QB to the point of not wanting to extend him is ridiculous to me. The defense gave up 3 straight TD drives in the second half.
Two of which were answered by said QB, and he’s not good enough for us? Makes no sense.
Grahamburn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:58 pm
You know who has more playoff wins than Kirk Cousins? Baker Mayfield. The guy who just threw for 686 yards and 6 TDs in our two playoff games. But, you'd rather have Kirk Cousins? Maybe you're the one who wants to be disappointed?
If Kirk Cousins had these receivers to throw to, he'd easily have a playoff win. This team could've done much better had they had a competent QB rather than Jameis. Once TB came in, it was a done deal. We mortgaged our future to win a Super Bowl in '20 and the piper came to collect this year.
He’s had arguably the best receiver in the fucking game for 4 years!
If Kirk Cousins had these receivers to throw to, he'd easily have a playoff win. This team could've done much better had they had a competent QB rather than Jameis. Once TB came in, it was a done deal. We mortgaged our future to win a Super Bowl in '20 and the piper came to collect this year.
Cousins is not lacking targets. Very few people would take our group over JJ, Addison, Osborn, and until this year Cook.
Odd thing to say.
And Stefon Diggs and prime Adam Thielen before that.
Kirk Cousins is a damn good QB. He's more steady and consistent in his play style than Baker. He's also very loved by his teammates and fans. But he's not so good that you would replace a younger QB with a more dynamic arm who can occasionally generate off schedule production.
I have never held Kirk's lack of post season success against him. Because so much of what happens in playoff games is often a combination of things that puts a team in the hole. Josh Allen played like the best player on the field against Chiefs and yet they lost because it is rarely down to the QB being sole deciding factor in playoff games.
If Cousins was the QB for 9ers against Chiefs in 2019, he would have been a SB MVP now and we would be talking differently about him. Similarly , I see enough positives from Baker from this playoff run that I feel like he is good enough to be a Superbowl winning QB if the team around him is as good as what the Bucs were in 2020 (rock solid O-line, productive edge rushers, no glaring weaknesses at almost any position).
Grahamburn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:14 am
Daniel Jones made it to the divisional round last year after a somewhat similar regular season. He was signed to a 4 year deal. $160M.
I could see something very similar for Baker with the same kind of outs after 2 years.
Salaries are getting out of control.
I could not possibly disagree with this more and here’s why: the owners and the league in general make hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions each year on the back of these players whose career generally averages, I think, around four or five years. Without the players, there is no profit for everyone else who profits off of their backs. And any player who plays for any length of time most likely, lives the rest of their life with at very least a lot of pain, and for some, as we know major TBI‘s. And there is a possibility of danger every wheel week on the field so there is that risk. Yes I know I’ve heard the arguments it’s their choice blah blah blah. But why should they be paid anything less than millions and millions when, without them, there is no such thing as professional football as we know it.
Jonny wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:58 pm
Kirk Cousins is a damn good QB. He's more steady and consistent in his play style than Baker. He's also very loved by his teammates and fans. But he's not so good that you would replace a younger QB with a more dynamic arm who can occasionally generate off schedule production.
I have never held Kirk's lack of post season success against him. Because so much of what happens in playoff games is often a combination of things that puts a team in the hole. Josh Allen played like the best player on the field against Chiefs and yet they lost because it is rarely down to the QB being sole deciding factor in playoff games.
If Cousins was the QB for 9ers against Chiefs in 2019, he would have been a SB MVP now and we would be talking differently about him. Similarly , I see enough positives from Baker from this playoff run that I feel like he is good enough to be a Superbowl winning QB if the team around him is as good as what the Bucs were in 2020 (rock solid O-line, productive edge rushers, no glaring weaknesses at almost any position).
Cousins is 6’3”. Mayfield is 6’1”, closer to a flat 6 feet. It’s Cousins’ ability to see over the line that is his biggest advantage over Mayfield.
Jonny wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:58 pm
Kirk Cousins is a damn good QB. He's more steady and consistent in his play style than Baker. He's also very loved by his teammates and fans. But he's not so good that you would replace a younger QB with a more dynamic arm who can occasionally generate off schedule production.
I have never held Kirk's lack of post season success against him. Because so much of what happens in playoff games is often a combination of things that puts a team in the hole. Josh Allen played like the best player on the field against Chiefs and yet they lost because it is rarely down to the QB being sole deciding factor in playoff games.
If Cousins was the QB for 9ers against Chiefs in 2019, he would have been a SB MVP now and we would be talking differently about him. Similarly , I see enough positives from Baker from this playoff run that I feel like he is good enough to be a Superbowl winning QB if the team around him is as good as what the Bucs were in 2020 (rock solid O-line, productive edge rushers, no glaring weaknesses at almost any position).
Cousins is 6’3”. Mayfield is 6’1”, closer to a flat 6 feet. It’s Cousins’ ability to see over the line that is his biggest advantage over Mayfield.
I don't doubt Cousins has some advantages over Baker. Just like how Baker has some advantages over Cousins, with his lightning quick release, supremely talented arm and ability to improvise behind a rocky O-line.
He did that against a team that quit and both teams had bottom 7 pass defenses in the NFL. Stop making him better than what he is.
Wirfs is an upgrade over Smith so "meh". Gronk was gone after the 2020... not 2021, when we still had a shot at the Super Bowl. Brown was no loss, who are you kidding? If Godwin doesn't tear his ACL, I still think we win back-to-back Super Bowls. So Marpet and Jensen are the only 2. Like I said, we need to improve the middle of our OLine. Funny thing is, we still had a top 10 pass blocking offensive line. I'd rather save the money going to Mayfield and spend that on the middle of our OLine. At that point, any "QB off the scrap heap" should at least put us at 9-wins (where did I see that before?). Plus, it keeps the trade up option open. If the Bucs give Mayfield an extension, then trade up to take a QB, how does that look? Now, if they give Mayfield a 1-yr / $18M deal and trade up, I'm ok with that. I won't complain. I just don't think that kind of deal is going to happen.
I think if Tristen doesn't get hurt for the Divisonal against the Rams as well.
Possibly. I mean, in the end, that team was a championship contender and the overall talent of this team isn't all that much different. The biggest drop off is at QB. The OLine that year, for pass blocking ranked #3 I believe and this year we were still top 10.
Backside wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:12 pm
I liked Baker a lot this year and want him back... These numbers being thrown around scare me as well. Single outlier seasons are very common in the NFL. That is an all-in Baker is THE guy contract. Which I really hope ends up being the case. But man, that is a large bet on that outcome coming to pass. Regression is absolutely on the table. It would be a shame if a year from now we were saying how did we fall for this, when we see it happen so often? Injuries, bad luck season, etc. So many things could happen where Baker isn't even much different but we miss the playoffs, have a bad record, and just feel bad about the team in general. And now we are paying top tier money to a guy who is NOT that.
Pretty interesting debate if we just confirmed that cheap scrap heap guys can be good if the situation and scheme is good. OR if we assume we just struck gold and can't possibly count on it happening again. I'll get excited for the team either way, but I am hoping that they agree to a slightly more reasonable number with Baker.
This year wasn't a single outlier season for Mayfield. He's had 2 others just like it in Cleveland. This is what he is... a low-end starter who's hit his ceiling. Regression isn't just on the table, it's expected.
That is only true if it stated decontextualized. Once you add the context of what, so many of us have posted earlier the truth is the kids a good QB. He actually went number one in the draft. There’s a reason for that. So either he’s average and his NFL play has been a mirror of that, or again, contextualized if he finds the right coach, and the right team, he could shock everyone. Just like he did this year. And keep in mind what his stats would be if Mike Evans had not dropped all of those perfect passes.
Cousins is not lacking targets. Very few people would take our group over JJ, Addison, Osborn, and until this year Cook.
Odd thing to say.
And Stefon Diggs and prime Adam Thielen before that.
Very odd.
He only had Diggs and Thielen 2 years, in the second one, they won a playoff game... contrary to people pretending that Cousins never won a playoff game.
The following year, they traded Diggs and got Jefferson. Season probably would've turned out better had they not had the 29th ranked defense that year... or 24th ranked defense the year after. Too bad he didn't have a top 7 defense like Mayfield did.
I could not possibly disagree with this more and here’s why: the owners and the league in general make hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions each year on the back of these players whose career generally averages, I think, around four or five years. Without the players, there is no profit for everyone else who profits off of their backs. And any player who plays for any length of time most likely, lives the rest of their life with at very least a lot of pain, and for some, as we know major TBI‘s. And there is a possibility of danger every wheel week on the field so there is that risk. Yes I know I’ve heard the arguments it’s their choice blah blah blah. But why should they be paid anything less than millions and millions when, without them, there is no such thing as professional football as we know it.
It stems from teams paying guys like Baker Mayfield $30M instead of trying to find someone better.
I think if Tristen doesn't get hurt for the Divisonal against the Rams as well.
Possibly. I mean, in the end, that team was a championship contender and the overall talent of this team isn't all that much different. The biggest drop off is at QB. The OLine that year, for pass blocking ranked #3 I believe and this year we were still top 10.
Who was the QB last year for our 8-9 team that got smashed at home in the Wild Card round? I’ll hang up and listen.
This year wasn't a single outlier season for Mayfield. He's had 2 others just like it in Cleveland. This is what he is... a low-end starter who's hit his ceiling. Regression isn't just on the table, it's expected.
That is only true if it stated decontextualized. Once you add the context of what, so many of us have posted earlier the truth is the kids a good QB. He actually went number one in the draft. There’s a reason for that. So either he’s average and his NFL play has been a mirror of that, or again, contextualized if he finds the right coach, and the right team, he could shock everyone. Just like he did this year. And keep in mind what his stats would be if Mike Evans had not dropped all of those perfect passes.
Oh, you mean just like Winston? Please. The dude isn't that good. Stop pretending he is. Winston stunk, so did Freeman, so did Dilfer... so does Mayfield.
Possibly. I mean, in the end, that team was a championship contender and the overall talent of this team isn't all that much different. The biggest drop off is at QB. The OLine that year, for pass blocking ranked #3 I believe and this year we were still top 10.
Who was the QB last year for our 8-9 team that got smashed at home in the Wild Card round? I’ll hang up and listen.
LOL, the guy intimating that Mayfield is better than Brady is hanging up and waiting to listen. This is how you know you've gone off the deep end.
Who was the QB last year for our 8-9 team that got smashed at home in the Wild Card round? I’ll hang up and listen.
LOL, the guy intimating that Mayfield is better than Brady is hanging up and waiting to listen. This is how you know you've gone off the deep end.
You’re arguing that a better QB would have won a championship with this roster. Tom Brady literally had this exact some roster and couldn’t do what Baker Mayfield did.
Baker fans are like the last dude in the friend group who hasn’t gotten laid.
The guy hasn’t hit a home run yet (Bucs with a franchise qb). He’s dating this ugly chick with 13 kids from 15 different dudes…but she’s gonna change, I just know it (she is baker).
Dude wants to settle down with this lady because she’s the only one showing him any affection.
Pump the brakes before you commit to a home wrecker.
LOL, the guy intimating that Mayfield is better than Brady is hanging up and waiting to listen. This is how you know you've gone off the deep end.
You’re arguing that a better QB would have won a championship with this roster. Tom Brady literally had this exact some roster and couldn’t do what Baker Mayfield did.
Brady didn’t have the exact same roster… circumstances, or playbook, or coaching staff.
The anyone but Baker crowd are clearly out of touch for likening his year to Winston. Just let them, no need to swing to the other way.
Preaching either extreme just hurts credibility… for whatever credibility on a niche fan board matters haha
