2024 NFL Draft, What are the Bucs needs?

[Grahamburn]

Adjust it for rating and look at the names down around Jameis in the 40s. Now that’s fun.

[13F11B]

My thoughts are G, C for OL, Edge Rusher, CB, WR... depends on where certain players fall. I also think the team is weak at TE currently, but not sure how that position is valued in the new offense.

[Bootz]

I asked this question before FA started. I'm gonna ask it again and I think the answer will change.

Over/Under 3.5 rookie starters this season.

[13F11B]

I asked this question before FA started. I'm gonna ask it again and I think the answer will change.

Over/Under 3.5 rookie starters this season.

Over. Though I think it is tight.

[CannonFire]

Players not good enough to warrant starting their entire rookie contract (with reasonable short term stint to catch up early on), not good enough to be on the roster the full contract, or getting an extension... and/or, already out of the league.

+ Winston was a bust because he should've been replaced, but wasn't... proof was that he signed a deal for $1M to be a backup the following year. He's still a backup 5 years later after leaving the Bucs.
+ Hargraves was released before his 4th year finished. He hasn't played a game since 2021.
+ O. J. Howard should've been replaced, but stayed all 5, wasting a roster spot and just allowed to walk. Out of football 1 year later.
+ Devin White had an excellent start, but fizzled out. He was never really all that good. It's why he signed a 1 yr meh contract with the Eagles
+ Joe Tryon-Shoyinka is a meh player who will not likely have his 5th year option picked up.
+ Logan Hall (pick 33, after a trade down out of the 1st), isn't anything special. I don't see him being on the roster after his 4th year.

Those are busts.

You know we were drafting a QB the year Jameis was drafted. Neither he nor Mariota that every pundit thought were the top prospects panned out. Pundits also lauded OJ Howard at the time. When you have sports journalists patting you on the back after draft day for your number one pick, then I feel they should not count against the GM. hindisight is 50/50. If everyone was shocked at the pick or even just meh, that's one thing. Both were considered good picks at the time. JTS was a reach as edge should not have been picked after the covid year. Even sure-fire Jaelan Phillips has been okay

I couldn't care less about what pundits or whomever say. The front office of every team spends literally 5 months worth of time evaluating the incoming class with the majority of it being on "Who do I take in the first round", and they got it wrong two-thirds of the time. Look, I don't even need them to hit a home run... get a freaking double. If they get a guy who's a solid contributor and you can plug him in and know you're going to a reliable performance from him, great! Just don't strike out... which is what they did.

I don't follow college football, so you'll almost never hear me say "We should draft [player name]", but you will hear me say "Don't draft [player name]". The 2015 draft was the perfect example. Mariota was hot garbage. I don't know what people saw in him, but I knew he had no shot to be an NFL QB. He was the epitome of "Great college QB". That's all he was and what he'd ever be. He was 1 step up from Tim Tebow (maybe not a full step). Winston on the other hand was a guy with tons of talent, but the maturity and decision making of a 10 year old. He was a huge red flag. Now, I could understand why someone would take him, because "you never know", but one thing I do know is, you should never take him #1 overall. The right decision was to trade down that year. I got killed on another board for saying that, because well... Winston went to FSU. That said, even I knew they focked up that year, on Day 1. With all the red flags, all the time spent invested in looking into him... they either didn't see them (when a novice like me did), or they ignored them. OR worse yet, they said "Look, our fanbase will kill us if we don't draft Winston". I'll be honest with you... I actually think that last part is what happened. I think the only reason Licht still has a job, is because ownership knew it too and why they gave him a pass for being 34-62 with 1 winning season in 6 years. I think you'll be hard pressed to find another GM who got Y7 with a track record like that.

As for the other misses, I don't really know of anyone that I recall saying to not draft, so I'm not going to kill them on totally screwing up like they did with the Winston pick. However, I will call them out for missing, badly, the other times. Like I said, they spend so much time evaluating these players. You don't have to be right 100% of the time, but come on... drafting a total miss 67% of the time is unacceptable. The odd thing is that they had more hits in the 2nd round with D. Smith, Marpet, (Jones was 'ok'), Carlton Davis, (SMB was 'ok'), and Winfield. I'm liking the Goedeke pick more now, since they moved him to RG RT. Go figure.

Again, point being, don't draft a bust. At worst, draft a guy who can legitimately contribute for 5 years instead of a guy we should look to replace in 2 years like the other six.

[mdb1958]

I'm liking the Goedeke pick more now, since they moved him to RG. Go figure.

Right tackle

[mdb1958]

PFF wants me to subscribe to unlock - what do they want from me, money?

[IchabodCrane84]

I asked this question before FA started. I'm gonna ask it again and I think the answer will change.

Over/Under 3.5 rookie starters this season.

I think any offensive lineman taken in the first 3 rounds starts. Any edge rush taken in round 1 or 2 starts. I think the 1st rounder starts.

Outside of a 1st round pick Zyon holds down CB, and I'll go out on a limb and say the same for Britt/Dennis.

Potential for 4, but I say 2.

[CannonFire]

I'm liking the Goedeke pick more now, since they moved him to RG. Go figure.

Right tackle

Thanks, sorry.

[Bootz]

PFF wants me to subscribe to unlock - what do they want from me, money?

Yes.

[mdb1958]

PFF wants me to subscribe to unlock - what do they want from me, money?

Yes.

grr

[CannonFire]

I asked this question before FA started. I'm gonna ask it again and I think the answer will change.

Over/Under 3.5 rookie starters this season.

Assuming that all 5 of the picks made in Rds 1-4 are taken and they make the team, I think all 5 are starters before the season ends. My guess is that all 5 are OL & defense. Now, if one or more start because of an injury to a starter, then to me, that doesn't count... because they were forced into the role, not took the role. But if I had to bet, I'm taking the over.

[Cheb]

https://stathead.com/tiny/sXOHT?&utm_me ... NS4wLjAuMA..

Last thing about this. Compare the stats for the first two players on that list. One was given up on. One got committed to. Just interesting to me how different the careers arcs of those two players ended up when they had practically identical statistics their first 5 seasons.

Who gives a shit about yards. Look at that list again; the only guy with a worst winning percentage than Jameis in the top 30 players as ranked by yards was Blake Bortles, who objectively blows chunks. Moreover, Peyton and Winston played in eras with vastly different defensive rules and a 15+ year gap in time between them during which offenses evolved immensely.

This line of thinking implies that Jameis woulda turned into Peyton Manning if we just gave him more time, which might by one of the dumber hot takes my brain could ever conceive.

There's a reason Jameis threw for 5000+ yards in a season and no one would trust him with a starting job, and it wasn't because he's a terminal moron and alleged sexual assaulter who makes it a moral dilemma to wish him success. It's because he's bad at football due to his inconsistency.

[13F11B]

Who gives a shit about yards. Look at that list again; the only guy with a worst winning percentage than Jameis in the top 30 players as ranked by yards was Blake Bortles, who objectively blows chunks. Moreover, Peyton and Winston played in eras with vastly different defensive rules and a 15+ year gap in time between them during which offenses evolved immensely.

This line of thinking implies that Jameis woulda turned into Peyton Manning if we just gave him more time, which might by one of the dumber hot takes my brain could ever conceive.

There's a reason Jameis threw for 5000+ yards in a season and no one would trust him with a starting job, and it wasn't because he's a terminal moron and alleged sexual assaulter who makes it a moral dilemma to wish him success. It's because he's bad at football due to his inconsistency.

TRUE DAT!

[Grahamburn]

https://stathead.com/tiny/sXOHT?&utm_me ... NS4wLjAuMA..

Last thing about this. Compare the stats for the first two players on that list. One was given up on. One got committed to. Just interesting to me how different the careers arcs of those two players ended up when they had practically identical statistics their first 5 seasons.

Who gives a shit about yards. Look at that list again; the only guy with a worst winning percentage than Jameis in the top 30 players as ranked by yards was Blake Bortles, who objectively blows chunks. Moreover, Peyton and Winston played in eras with vastly different defensive rules and a 15+ year gap in time between them during which offenses evolved immensely.

This line of thinking implies that Jameis woulda turned into Peyton Manning if we just gave him more time, which might by one of the dumber hot takes my brain could ever conceive.

There's a reason Jameis threw for 5000+ yards in a season and no one would trust him with a starting job, and it wasn't because he's a terminal moron and alleged sexual assaulter who makes it a moral dilemma to wish him success. It's because he's bad at football due to his inconsistency.

I didn't mean to touch a nerve, and I didn't say he would have turned into Manning if he had more time. Just found it interesting how similar their numbers were. It wasn't just the yards either, but also the other statistics that were very similar to Manning's. Peyton even threw more INTs than Jameis his first 5 years.

We were also a brutally terrible defensive team during those 5 years. Averaged 25th in points against and 21st in yards against. No, the turnovers didn't help, but there also had to be close to double digit close games that were lost because we couldn't make a FG to save our lives while Jameis was the QB here. That's what I mean about supporting the QB. We were a comedy of errors and it wasn't just the QB.

Edited to add we were a 68.26% kicking unit during his time here. Wow.

[Grahamburn]

Active around here today!

[Bootz]

It's a week from the draft so expect it to pick up.

[Bootz]

I will say I don't remember the last time we went into a draft with this many question marks and holes. A lot fewer "sure things" on the roster likely to be elevated into positions they might not be ready for.

[13F11B]

I will say I don't remember the last time we went into a draft with this many question marks and holes. A lot fewer "sure things" on the roster likely to be elevated into positions they might not be ready for.

We have holes, but not HOLES.

[Grahamburn]

The large red font is emphatic.

[Bootz]

I will say I don't remember the last time we went into a draft with this many question marks and holes. A lot fewer "sure things" on the roster likely to be elevated into positions they might not be ready for.

We have holes, but not HOLES.

I'd say we do. You can't have the worst run game 2 years running and say you don't have major red flags on the team. That's ignoring the issue. IOL is a major problem for this team. All 3 spots. Miss me with "but we have Mauch". I can't name a reason he deserves to start and neither can you.

[GreatTimes]

We have holes, but not HOLES.

I'd say we do. You can't have the worst run game 2 years running and say you don't have major red flags on the team. That's ignoring the issue. IOL is a major problem for this team. All 3 spots. Miss me with "but we have Mauch". I can't name a reason he deserves to start and neither can you.

The Bucs do not have enough early draft choices to fill all the holes on the offensive line this year. It is going to take at least 2 years of using early draft choices to fix the offensive line.

[Phantom]

I'd say we do. You can't have the worst run game 2 years running and say you don't have major red flags on the team. That's ignoring the issue. IOL is a major problem for this team. All 3 spots. Miss me with "but we have Mauch". I can't name a reason he deserves to start and neither can you.

The Bucs do not have enough early draft choices to fill all the holes on the offensive line this year. It is going to take at least 2 years of using early draft choices to fix the offensive line.

The Bucs have opted not to address those holes through free agency. The draft won't resolve this issue. Maybe

[Bootz]

I'd say we do. You can't have the worst run game 2 years running and say you don't have major red flags on the team. That's ignoring the issue. IOL is a major problem for this team. All 3 spots. Miss me with "but we have Mauch". I can't name a reason he deserves to start and neither can you.

The Bucs do not have enough early draft choices to fill all the holes on the offensive line this year. It is going to take at least 2 years of using early draft choices to fix the offensive line.

The draft isn't the only resource. Free agency. Trades. We've simply chosen not to do so, mostly because we're limited in funds.

[Phantom]

Just imagine, we could potentially have Russell Wilson and Derrick Henry for cheap. We would then have some funds remaining to secure 3-4 offensive linemen from free agency

[Grahamburn]

We have holes, but not HOLES.

I'd say we do. You can't have the worst run game 2 years running and say you don't have major red flags on the team. That's ignoring the issue. IOL is a major problem for this team. All 3 spots. Miss me with "but we have Mauch". I can't name a reason he deserves to start and neither can you.

Licht's 2nd year linemen track record would be the reason. And of course because he's a second round pick.

[Bootz]

I'd say we do. You can't have the worst run game 2 years running and say you don't have major red flags on the team. That's ignoring the issue. IOL is a major problem for this team. All 3 spots. Miss me with "but we have Mauch". I can't name a reason he deserves to start and neither can you.

Licht's 2nd year linemen track record would be the reason. And of course because he's a second round pick.

What does that even mean? "2nd year linemen track record"? Sounds like some made up metric to try to rationalize your clear delusion.

[Grahamburn]

Licht's 2nd year linemen track record would be the reason. And of course because he's a second round pick.

What does that even mean? "2nd year linemen track record"? Sounds like some made up metric to try to rationalize your clear delusion.

It means be more patient.

[Sdbucs]

So the draft is almost a week away. Here's my answer, and it ain't surprising.

---

The biggest actual problem with the Buccaneers, in my opinion, is our shitty running game. Worst in the league for two seasons straight. Our offensive tackles are pretty good. But our interior trio were bad and have been for a long time because they are uniformly converted offensive tackles without the size or strength to win rushing reps against interior defenders who are much bigger and stronger than the ends they are used to. Were they losing us games, not directly, but certainly indirectly they made everyone's job harder.

All that to say, top priority is to add a new starting offensive guard or center to fix this consistent problem. Will it directly win us games, no, but indirectly it will make everyone's job easier if we can consistently win reps on the interior and raise our run game out of the gutter.

---

The biggest potential problem with the Buccaneers is our edge rush. We are relying on a trio of guys who are unreliable. Firstly we have JTS, who I think is largely and rightly considered another bad season from being a bust. Secondly we have Yaya, who was great as a rookie but who is as likely to have a sophomore slump as he is to break out into dominant play, probably more likely to do the former honestly. Thirdly we have Anthony Nelson, who is nothing special. Behind them, we have no one.

For as much press as the offense gets with Baker and Evans and Godwin, it's the defense that is a top 10 unit and imo is the engine that drives the team. The single biggest thing that WILL fuck us over if it goes wrong is if we don't fix the pass rush. There's a definite non-zero chance that the chips will land very badly with that unit and they combine for a total of like 10 sacks if that, in which case our defense will implode and shortly thereafter the team.

---

So yeah. Interior offensive line and edge rush. Other things and positions would be nice, but if we address those two spots in the first two days, I'd be pretty pleased.

Couple good options should be there for us at DE in the first and IOL in the 2nd/3rd, go figure.

Lots of depth at WR and RB in the draft too, to bolster our offense along with the lines

[Bootz]

What does that even mean? "2nd year linemen track record"? Sounds like some made up metric to try to rationalize your clear delusion.

It means be more patient.

Even that doesn't make sense but I think you know that. You speak as if having the worst run game was by design and part of a greater purpose. Honestly your delusion is disturbing at best and it's getting worse.

[Sdbucs]

PFF has us at #29 in run block, #10 in pass block

Our highest rated IOL run blocker was Aaron Stinnie at #61 overall with Hainsey coming in at #97.

Overall our highest rated IOL was Stinnie at #81.

Horrible.

Meanwhile our tackles rated highly (Wirfs at #9 overall, Goedeke at #27 overall)

[GreatTimes]

What does that even mean? "2nd year linemen track record"? Sounds like some made up metric to try to rationalize your clear delusion.

It means be more patient.

Bucs fans have been patient for years waiting for the Bucs to put together a dominating offensive line. Most have run out of patience.

[kaimaru]

It means be more patient.

Even that doesn't make sense but I think you know that. You speak as if having the worst run game was by design and part of a greater purpose. Honestly your delusion is disturbing at best and it's getting worse.

Mauch went from LT to RG. Even Wirfs said he would occasionally throw the wrong hand up because everything was reversed. The skills from tackle to guard are different techniques. He didn't have good footwork coming out of college. He came in his first year at the low end of what guards should weigh. He had to train for the combine, not for an NFL offseason as a guard and using that time to bulk up mass and strength. To say he is a bust after one year fighting uphill seems premature

[Doctor]

Mauch year 1 was textbook "give the young guy reps to develop". He was learning a lot in the fly. It's not crazy to say the more natural it becomes to him the better he'll play. All the traits we like in our linemen are there.

[Pelagic_and_Pewter]

I'm starting to get a feeling they won't address Center at all in the draft (or at least not until the later stages).

I think they'll take someone between Rounds Two and Three to compete for the LG role and then perhaps sign someone like Brian Allen for depth/competition with Hainsey.