Jonny wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:03 pm
I really love his acceleration and decisiveness. He is able to go from a 0 to a 100 in a hurry, even though his 100 is more a 60. He's definitely a different type of runner than most guys we've had since Doug Martin in his rookie year.
He’s getting knocked for athleticism, but he’s got enough of it. RB isn’t really about long speed in the NFL. Huge runs from RBs are pretty rare. He’s super decisive and has a ton of lateral agility. Add the tackle breaking to that and he’ll contribute.
I think we’re a little gun shy at RB. We don’t trust Licht. Not sure that’s Bucky’s fault?
A lot of RBs look great at Oregon it seems. But transitioning to the NFL is more of a challenge. His skills seem to indicate he’d be a good kick returner and used as a WR out of the backfield. Not much of an in-between tackles kind of guy.
Navybuc wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:06 am
A lot of RBs look great at Oregon it seems. But transitioning to the NFL is more of a challenge. His skills seem to indicate he’d be a good kick returner and used as a WR out of the backfield. Not much of an in-between tackles kind of guy.
I disagree with you about him not projecting to be a good in-between tackles guy. But thanks for bringing up return duties. I totally forgot about the sneakily crazy upside this type of a runner will have as a returner with the new rules.
Last edited by Jonny on Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I’m confident saying this about Bucky. He’s going to be a real contributor immediately or he’s going to be totally worthless. He is a finished product.
Snake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:56 pm
I’m confident saying this about Bucky. He’s going to be a real contributor immediately or he’s going to be totally worthless. He is a finished product.
Kind of agree. Not much projection to him. Either the things he’s good at will work immediately at his size or they won’t.
Snake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:56 pm
I’m confident saying this about Bucky. He’s going to be a real contributor immediately or he’s going to be totally worthless. He is a finished product.
He can’t be much worse than Keshawn Vaughn or Sean Tucker so if he doesn’t make the roster he really does suck. And he should be better than Chase Edmonds whose really only good as a pass catcher.
Snake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:56 pm
I’m confident saying this about Bucky. He’s going to be a real contributor immediately or he’s going to be totally worthless. He is a finished product.
He can’t be much worse than Keshawn Vaughn or Sean Tucker so if he doesn’t make the roster he really does suck. And he should be better than Chase Edmonds whose really only good as a pass catcher.
Feel like he’s a much better rated prospect than any of those three
(1) I read better pre-gradings (2) Bucky has higher PFF ratings (3) better looking in select youtube videos
He seems like a totally fine prospect and a value in the fourth. His combine seems to have made him drop as well as his size. But he looks like a potential weapon for sure
He can’t be much worse than Keshawn Vaughn or Sean Tucker so if he doesn’t make the roster he really does suck. And he should be better than Chase Edmonds whose really only good as a pass catcher.
Feel like he’s a much better rated prospect than any of those three
(1) I read better pre-gradings (2) Bucky has higher PFF ratings (3) better looking in select youtube videos
He seems like a totally fine prospect and a value in the fourth. His combine seems to have made him drop as well as his size. But he looks like a potential weapon for sure
I heard someone say he is not a good pass protector out of the backfield. If true, it doesn't much matter how good of a runner he is. You can't be on the field as a RB in a team running 11 personnel and be incompetent as a pass blocker.
Irving’s slight frame might scare away some teams, but his ability on the field doesn’t reflect that. Despite measuring 5-foot-9 at the NFL combine, Irving holds the fifth-highest rushing grade among all running backs over the last three years.
His ability to make defenders miss is unmatched. While he benefitted from a very good offensive line at Oregon, he averaged 0.36 missed tackles forced per attempt and racked up 1,811 yards after contact in his career.
To Ken’s point he did receive a pretty poor pass blocking grade however
He reminds me of Warrick Dunn in the sense that Irving knows what he wants to do before the ball hits his hands and just goes for it. Not that Dunn didn't have better vision, athelticism, shiftiness and never changed his mind and wasn't creme de le creme. Dunn just didn't overdo it with the cutesy shit where he pauses or starts slowly so he can read where his hole is. He did it when it made sense but otherwise on a given play he just took off like a racehorse and if the hole opened up when his speed opened up, you were getting a minimum of 6 yards
Guys like Blount drove me fucking nuts with that stutter step nonsense EVERY PLAY EVERY TIME
Bucky Irving vs Rachaad White - Final NCAA Seasons
Irving put up the following stats in his final NCAA season versus White. All percentages on a PER CARRY basis unless otherwise specified.
Irving had 163 rushes, White had 183. Irving had:
18% more Yards - (1055 vs 1000)
18% more Yards after Contact - (651 vs 619)
56% more Missed Tackles - (61 vs 44)
45% more 10+ yard runs - (31 vs 24)
63% more 15+ yard runs - (16 vs 11)
That doesn't tell us much. Rachaad White is/has been at best a below average RB. Does this mean Irving will be slightly better as the stats are relatively similar sans missed tackles.
Last edited by Bootz on Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
White has only been below average if we are specifically talking about running between the tackles. Which also correlates to the quality of the interior of the Oline and we love to talk about how bad that has been.
So do we just call them both trash for efficiency? Nothing about White in the open field last year suggests he is 'below average' quite the contrary,
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:05 pm
That doesn't tell us much. Rachaad White is has been at best a below average RB. Does this mean Irving will be slightly better as the stats are relatively similar sans missed tackles.
Mostly just trying to show Irving seems to be a slightly better RB, even if they're both average
Backside wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:16 pm
So do our RBs suck or our Oline?
White has only been below average if we are specifically talking about running between the tackles. Which also correlates to the quality of the interior of the Oline and we love to talk about how bad that has been.
So do we just call them both trash for efficiency? Nothing about White in the open field last year suggests he is 'below average' quite the contrary,
He's a good pass catcher. But as a RUNNING BACK he's subpar. People know that which is why they're trying to amend the definition of a RB. He's not good between the tackles. His vision is terrible and he's very indecisive. Doesn't break many tackles. And in terms of pass protecting, he embarrassed himself quite a bit.
All positives on him stem from his skills as a receiver. But he's a guy who had over 330 touches overall. We need more from the ground game and he can't provide that.
Backside wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:16 pm
So do our RBs suck or our Oline?
White has only been below average if we are specifically talking about running between the tackles. Which also correlates to the quality of the interior of the Oline and we love to talk about how bad that has been.
So do we just call them both trash for efficiency? Nothing about White in the open field last year suggests he is 'below average' quite the contrary,
He's a good pass catcher. But as a RUNNING BACK he's subpar. People know that which is why they're trying to amend the definition of a RB. He's not good between the tackles. His vision is terrible and he's very indecisive. Doesn't break many tackles. And in terms of pass protecting, he embarrassed himself quite a bit.
All positives on him stem from his skills as a receiver. But he's a guy who had over 330 touches overall. We need more from the ground game and he can't provide that.
Something tells me that if (and when) our interior Oline is improved, White will look MUCH better between the tackles, despite all of those limitations.
Every single RB we've had since the first Brady retirement has been horrible between the tackles, knowing Licht, they could all very well just suck at running the ball. But I'm inclined to put a bit more blame on that Oline failing to open up lanes.
When the pick came in, Pewtor Report Podcast talked a little about how he returned kicks. If he's good at making people miss, he could turn an average return to a stellar return by making one guy miss him.
Backside wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:16 pm
So do our RBs suck or our Oline?
White has only been below average if we are specifically talking about running between the tackles. Which also correlates to the quality of the interior of the Oline and we love to talk about how bad that has been.
So do we just call them both trash for efficiency? Nothing about White in the open field last year suggests he is 'below average' quite the contrary,
He's a good pass catcher. But as a RUNNING BACK he's subpar. People know that which is why they're trying to amend the definition of a RB. He's not good between the tackles. His vision is terrible and he's very indecisive. Doesn't break many tackles. And in terms of pass protecting, he embarrassed himself quite a bit.
All positives on him stem from his skills as a receiver. But he's a guy who had over 330 touches overall. We need more from the ground game and he can't provide that.
I don't know if any RB could have been successful between the tackles for us last year. While White is probably not the second coming of Walter Payton, he doesn't suck. Put him behind a good OL and he might even be pretty good.
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:05 pm
That doesn't tell us much. Rachaad White is/has been at best a below average RB. Does this mean Irving will be slightly better as the stats are relatively similar sans missed tackles.
I know you are categorically against people making claims with out any evidence. Please do us all a favor and walk the walk. (If you don't understand the previous two sentences -- SHOW ME THE FACTS!)
Backside wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:16 pm
So do our RBs suck or our Oline?
White has only been below average if we are specifically talking about running between the tackles. Which also correlates to the quality of the interior of the Oline and we love to talk about how bad that has been.
So do we just call them both trash for efficiency? Nothing about White in the open field last year suggests he is 'below average' quite the contrary,
He's a good pass catcher. But as a RUNNING BACK he's subpar. People know that which is why they're trying to amend the definition of a RB. He's not good between the tackles. His vision is terrible and he's very indecisive. Doesn't break many tackles. And in terms of pass protecting, he embarrassed himself quite a bit.
All positives on him stem from his skills as a receiver. But he's a guy who had over 330 touches overall. We need more from the ground game and he can't provide that.
Based on your description, we have ROJO II on our hands.
He's a good pass catcher. But as a RUNNING BACK he's subpar. People know that which is why they're trying to amend the definition of a RB. He's not good between the tackles. His vision is terrible and he's very indecisive. Doesn't break many tackles. And in terms of pass protecting, he embarrassed himself quite a bit.
All positives on him stem from his skills as a receiver. But he's a guy who had over 330 touches overall. We need more from the ground game and he can't provide that.
Based on your description, we have ROJO II on our hands.
Hands of stone Rojo? Not even. Rojo was faster, much more elusive than he got credit for. But he couldn't catch worth a damn and fumbled way too much. To that point, White fumbles too much.
Based on your description, we have ROJO II on our hands.
Hands of stone Rojo? Not even. Rojo was faster, much more elusive than he got credit for. But he couldn't catch worth a damn and fumbled way too much. To that point, White fumbles too much.
He also couldn't pass protect and couldn't push the pile. He had two chances to score in Super Bowl 55 from the 1 yard line and failed. That is what probably got him benched.
Backside wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:15 pm
He's lost three fumbles total in his career in 400 carries. I don't think that is a big number compared to his peers.
If you're going with just the number that have been lost, you wouldn't only need to include the 272 carries he had this past season because all 3 lost fumbles came this year. He also put it on the ground 3 times last season as well, fortunately we recovered them all. He ain't Adrian Peterson or Tiki Barber but he could do better.
Backside wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:15 pm
He's lost three fumbles total in his career in 400 carries. I don't think that is a big number compared to his peers.
If you're going with just the number that have been lost, you wouldn't only need to include the 272 carries he had this past season because all 3 lost fumbles came this year. He also put it on the ground 3 times last season as well, fortunately we recovered them all. He ain't Adrian Peterson or Tiki Barber but he could do better.
Do you have a link to the stats you are using? I'm not seeing what you are saying.
So he put it on the ground 5 times in two years on 515 touches, and lost four of them. Other than being unlucky with the ball going to the other team, I don't see much of an issue. Less than one fumble per 100 touches seems pretty good. But I don't have direct comparisons to other RB's on hand.
