Todd Bowles is the problem

[Doctor]

The Tampa media have lost their minds and are approaching this for the wrong (or backwards) reason. There is no coach (albeit very slim chance with a minute left) is pulling starters out of a game. To attack Bowels on this is as bad as the wife angry cause you can't read her mind or to predict the weather.

What they need to question here is why are you putting 31 y/o Mike Evans in the game when he was clearly not 100%?

He claims to the media that he does protect his players but this was a lie, if he cared about the season if he cared about protecting his players, he would say "Mike I'm sorry we have 10 games left, I need you at 100% you're not playing tonight" End of story.

Im not even sure putting Mike in even if he was 24 would be a great idea either, maybe you can get away with it. But at 31 the healing processes take longer and Bowels needs to start taking those things in account. Age/injury.

Evans has had hamstring issues his whole career. Of the 8 times he's played through it just fine without missing time 5 times. The other 3 he only missed a game or two.

I think Evans knows his hammy best. This idea that Bowles should override the HoF on how he says he feels about his body after 11 years is just weird.

[Central_Buc]

The Tampa media have lost their minds and are approaching this for the wrong (or backwards) reason. There is no coach (albeit very slim chance with a minute left) is pulling starters out of a game. To attack Bowels on this is as bad as the wife angry cause you can't read her mind or to predict the weather.

What they need to question here is why are you putting 31 y/o Mike Evans in the game when he was clearly not 100%?

He claims to the media that he does protect his players but this was a lie, if he cared about the season if he cared about protecting his players, he would say "Mike I'm sorry we have 10 games left, I need you at 100% you're not playing tonight" End of story.

Im not even sure putting Mike in even if he was 24 would be a great idea either, maybe you can get away with it. But at 31 the healing processes take longer and Bowels needs to start taking those things in account. Age/injury.

I think Evans knows his hammy best. This idea that Bowles should override the HoF on how he says he feels about his body after 11 years is just weird.

He's the HC, why would that be weird? OK so let him get the TD then take him out because he was obviously hurt.

It doesn't matter if he knows his hammy. He's not 24 anymore

[13F11B]

The Tampa media have lost their minds and are approaching this for the wrong (or backwards) reason. There is no coach (albeit very slim chance with a minute left) is pulling starters out of a game. To attack Bowels on this is as bad as the wife angry cause you can't read her mind or to predict the weather.

What they need to question here is why are you putting 31 y/o Mike Evans in the game when he was clearly not 100%?

He claims to the media that he does protect his players but this was a lie, if he cared about the season if he cared about protecting his players, he would say "Mike I'm sorry we have 10 games left, I need you at 100% you're not playing tonight" End of story.

Im not even sure putting Mike in even if he was 24 would be a great idea either, maybe you can get away with it. But at 31 the healing processes take longer and Bowels needs to start taking those things in account. Age/injury.

Evans has had hamstring issues his whole career. Of the 8 times he's played through it just fine without missing time 5 times. The other 3 he only missed a game or two.

I think Evans knows his hammy best. This idea that Bowles should override the HoF on how he says he feels about his body after 11 years is just weird.

I would guess that Bowles goes off of player and trainer to tell him. Now, Bowles might have said let him sit for a game just to make sure despite the feedback he got, but I doubt he would have forced Mike to play.

If Bowles forced Mike to play that is a different problem.

[Central_Buc]

Evans has had hamstring issues his whole career. Of the 8 times he's played through it just fine without missing time 5 times. The other 3 he only missed a game or two.

I think Evans knows his hammy best. This idea that Bowles should override the HoF on how he says he feels about his body after 11 years is just weird.

I would guess that Bowles goes off of player and trainer to tell him. Now, Bowles might have said let him sit for a game just to make sure despite the feedback he got, but I doubt he would have forced Mike to play.

If Bowles forced Mike to play that is a different problem.

Exactly plus it's not like he would sit him without giving Mike an explanation on his decision. (Something in the effect I said above)

[Betsy]

Saleh's available.

Whoever's decision it was to keep people in the game that late, should be fired.

The last time a team came back in the last 3 minutes of the game was the Colts against the Bucs in 2003. Colts won it in OT. Final 38-35.

Last nights game broke my heart.

[Onthebrink]

The Bucs traded their pick to the Bills and drafted Vita Vea. They did not decide to take Devin White over Josh Allen. That was not the same draft.

[Backside]

The Bucs traded their pick to the Bills and drafted Vita Vea. They did not decide to take Devin White over Josh Allen. That was not the same draft.

You're incorrect. Vita was the year before.


We did draft Devin White with Josh Allen still on the board.

Edit: Oh the confusion is Josh Allen the QB v pass rusher. We're all talking about the pass rusher.

[Pirate Life]

The last time a team came back in the last 3 minutes of the game was the Colts against the Bucs in 2003. Colts won it in OT. Final 38-35.

It's happened several times this season actually?

[Betsy]

The last time a team came back in the last 3 minutes of the game was the Colts against the Bucs in 2003. Colts won it in OT. Final 38-35.

It's happened several times this season actually?

In 3 minutes?

[Grahamburn]

The Bucs traded their pick to the Bills and drafted Vita Vea. They did not decide to take Devin White over Josh Allen. That was not the same draft.

You're incorrect. Vita was the year before.


We did draft Devin White with Josh Allen still on the board.

Edit: Oh the confusion is Josh Allen the QB v pass rusher. We're all talking about the pass rusher.

His name change has been helpful when googling and wondering what could have been..

[Doctor]

I think Evans knows his hammy best. This idea that Bowles should override the HoF on how he says he feels about his body after 11 years is just weird.

He's the HC, why would that be weird? OK so let him get the TD then take him out because he was obviously hurt.

It doesn't matter if he knows his hammy. He's not 24 anymore

11 years in the league.
8 with hammy issues.
5 playing through them without missing time.

But you want to baby him this time because... oh, right, hindsight.

[Doctor]

You're incorrect. Vita was the year before.


We did draft Devin White with Josh Allen still on the board.

Edit: Oh the confusion is Josh Allen the QB v pass rusher. We're all talking about the pass rusher.

His name change has been helpful when googling and wondering what could have been..

I'd much rather have the second Lombardi.

[Central_Buc]

He's the HC, why would that be weird? OK so let him get the TD then take him out because he was obviously hurt.

It doesn't matter if he knows his hammy. He's not 24 anymore

11 years in the league.
8 with hammy issues.
5 playing through them without missing time.

But you want to baby him this time because... oh, right, hindsight.

Babying him isn't what I way saying, it's more so guiding him against his better judgment. You don't have to be snippy. You and I have mostly agreed on 90 percent on most things about this team.

I can't help it if you can't see this pov. Are we a better team today knowing he was injured before the game and threw him out there? There are things you can control and things (like Godwin) you cant.

[Pirate Life]

It's happened several times this season actually?

In 3 minutes?

Yes, SF-Rams game for one. Our game against the Falcons for another.

[Bootz]

The Bucs traded their pick to the Bills and drafted Vita Vea. They did not decide to take Devin White over Josh Allen. That was not the same draft.

The black one, not the white one.

[13F11B]

The Bucs traded their pick to the Bills and drafted Vita Vea. They did not decide to take Devin White over Josh Allen. That was not the same draft.

The black one, not the white one.

LOL.

[Sooner06]

No saying your wrong on the post as a whole, but this particular point is more of a Jason Licht issue... not Todd Bowles.

I think he was a key voice in pushing for White. Ultimately the decision was probably more on Licht but Bowles was probably more in favor of White given his history of salivating over a speedy off ball linebacker. I think Spsgnuolo has a pretty big voice on which defensive players KC drafts and Bowles was held in as high of a regard as him by Arians

You are correct about Spags. Veach has said in various interviews on various KC podcasts that he gives Spags tapes on the defensive players he thinks Spags will like, and then he and Spags will go over them together. The ones Spags shows particular interest in, Veach tries to draft. Same with FAs. Veach is a very good judge of talent as a former scout, but he's said many times that Spags has an eye for defensive talent that Veach doesn't have, so Veach goes with what Spags likes.

[Redrum]

I think he was a key voice in pushing for White. Ultimately the decision was probably more on Licht but Bowles was probably more in favor of White given his history of salivating over a speedy off ball linebacker. I think Spsgnuolo has a pretty big voice on which defensive players KC drafts and Bowles was held in as high of a regard as him by Arians

You are correct about Spags. Veach has said in various interviews on various KC podcasts that he gives Spags tapes on the defensive players he thinks Spags will like, and then he and Spags will go over them together. The ones Spags shows particular interest in, Veach tries to draft. Same with FAs. Veach is a very good judge of talent as a former scout, but he's said many times that Spags has an eye for defensive talent that Veach doesn't have, so Veach goes with what Spags likes.

Thanks! I would venture a guess that Bowles was viewed by Arians with the same reverence that Reid views Spags. That coupled with Darrin Lee with the Jets make me believe Todd pounded the table for Devin over Josh. I could be wrong but that's what I think. Regardless of whether it's true or not there are many reasons why Bowles needs to go.

[Sooner06]

You are correct about Spags. Veach has said in various interviews on various KC podcasts that he gives Spags tapes on the defensive players he thinks Spags will like, and then he and Spags will go over them together. The ones Spags shows particular interest in, Veach tries to draft. Same with FAs. Veach is a very good judge of talent as a former scout, but he's said many times that Spags has an eye for defensive talent that Veach doesn't have, so Veach goes with what Spags likes.

Thanks! I would venture a guess that Bowles was viewed by Arians with the same reverence that Reid views Spags. That coupled with Darrin Lee with the Jets make me believe Todd pounded the table for Devin over Josh. I could be wrong but that's what I think. Regardless of whether it's true or not there are many reasons why Bowles needs to go.

Tbf, I always thought Bowles was a good DC. I thought he kind of got a raw deal in NYJ.


However, I also thought he was too aggressive with his blitzing at times, maybe too often. I don't usually like criticizing NFL coaches too much, because I have no idea how hard their jobs are.

But, just from watching TB this season, it's hard to defend (in my own mind) many of his gameplans/decisions, even outside this last game. And I kind of give him a pass for last night, as BAL is just a really tough team vs. NFC teams. I mean, they destroyed SF last season, and I really thought SF would defend BAL better than that, especially with as much trouble SF has given KC in recent years. But Lamar just mowed them down like they were . . . the Jets.

But he allowed Cousins/ATL and Nix/DEN to take him to the woodshed. For a DC as highly touted as he is, that just shouldn't happen.


Idk, I'm not a fan of firing coaches mid-season, it rarely if ever works out very well. And the interim coach gets fired at season's end or after just a single season more often than not, so I'm not in favor of that either. But it may be that Bowles needs to go at season's end. I just hope Licht doesn't put Coen in the position of having to be the next HC. Not yet anyway.


Not saying it's likely, but I do know that Spags has been interested in a HC job for years now. With Coen as his OC, that might be a combination that works for everyone?


Idk, this kind of thing is really outside my wheelhouse. I mean, I knew Andy and Spags were going to be great in KC, but they came with great pedigrees/resumes, so it's not like I was some kind of football coach seer. Just feel like there's some key element missing from Bowles as a DC/HC that's making things harder than they have to be.

ymmv.

[Sooner06]

I should add that Spags being available for a HC position is purely blue-sky speculation. He was just given another extension by KC over the offseason, so he might not be available at all. But he has expressed interest in a HC job as recently as this past offseason, so who knows? Maybe if the bag was big enough?


Tb would be a tempting situation for him, I know that.

[Backside]

I have no interest in Spags as HC

[Grahamburn]

If we’re replacing Bowles shouldn’t it be Coen?

If the O falters after losing Evans/Godwin maybe he won’t be the hot commodity I’d expect otherwise.

If we don’t miss a beat he’s getting HC offers if he wants them.

[Phantom]

I have no interest in Spags as HC

Same

I rather Ben Johnson

[Phantom]

If we’re replacing Bowles shouldn’t it be Coen?

If the O falters after losing Evans/Godwin maybe he won’t be the hot commodity I’d expect otherwise.

If we don’t miss a beat he’s getting HC offers if he wants them.

I guarantee he’ll be gone as good next season if the offense maintains this pace. He's 50x better than Canales..

[Grahamburn]

If we’re replacing Bowles shouldn’t it be Coen?

If the O falters after losing Evans/Godwin maybe he won’t be the hot commodity I’d expect otherwise.

If we don’t miss a beat he’s getting HC offers if he wants them.

I guarantee he’ll be gone as good next season if the offense maintains this pace. He's 50x better than Canales..

Right. So we can keep Bowles and keep doing OC musical chairs or…

[Central_Buc]

I agree with @Grahamburn and @Phantom if we are going to lose Coen, we may as well mske the change and offer him the job next season.

I hope our next coach was a former OC. It seems to me OC turn HC tend to be better at HC than DC in todays game. I'm not saying that's always the case but I'm stating my preference in a HC.

Then you have your wild cards like John Harbaugh who was a special teams coach. But if he can change his entire offense to suit Lamar then i think he was always and seemingly OC minded.

[Doctor]

I believe Bowles absolutely had a hand in picking White. How could he not? It's his defense and Licht was drafting for maximizing it.

Licht has made it clear every pick is ultimately his pick. But at the same time he listens to his coaches and understands ball more than well enough to weigh our staffs inputs and schemes along side our great scouting departments reports.

Had we a had a different DC it could very well have altered Licht's abacus. Maybe he drafts White, or Josh Allen, or Ed Oliver. Who knows.

But trying to second guess a known-known outcome of a Lombardi, especially in an attempt to use it as a negative mark, is kinda silly.

[mdb1958]

In every instance it's living up to the pick and living up to the pick made.

[GreatTimes]

He's the HC, why would that be weird? OK so let him get the TD then take him out because he was obviously hurt.

It doesn't matter if he knows his hammy. He's not 24 anymore

11 years in the league.
8 with hammy issues.
5 playing through them without missing time.

But you want to baby him this time because... oh, right, hindsight.

After seeing how bad ME was moving after his TD catch, ME should have been shut down then. The ATL game is the priority.

[bucarican]

It is official, the Bucs have the most WISHY WASHY Pathetic fan base.

[bucarican]

It is official, the Bucs have the most WISHY WASHY Pathetic fan base.

Our Fans that allow other teams fans to occupy the stadium. "I wish we were the Jets,Panthers, Eagles, Giants, Jags, Falcons, Browns, Cowboys, Colts, and the other teams fans that the GM and the head coach suck! "

People haven't looked at the damn injury list since week one, it is on par with a Publix inventory list before Milton.

[bucarican]

If we’re replacing Bowles shouldn’t it be Coen?

If the O falters after losing Evans/Godwin maybe he won’t be the hot commodity I’d expect otherwise.

If we don’t miss a beat he’s getting HC offers if he wants them.

No, you guys are on CRACK!

[bucarican]

i stand with Bowles!

[Jonny]

Bowles has rest of this season to prove he's worth keeping around at the expense of losing Coen.

But I still have some faith in Bowles. Bucs defense had no pulse or identity for a decade, before Bowles brought his hyper aggressive style to Tampa. For every piece of turd Bowles has his units put out there, there is a clear tightening that seems to happen as season goes along. Our front office's tendency to play it passive to let current players grow into their roles is hurting Bowles in my opinion.

I really like Bowles, the man. I love that he's a Dungy-esque statesman representing my team and I hope that he can put us on the right path with what little he's got to work with, with all the injuries piling up.

[Phantom]

It’s time for him to go . He was outcoached twice by Raheem Morris. TWICE

At least Coen is trying to win the game. He was visibly angry on TV several times.