Baker Mayfield: PAID

[CannonFire]

Boy, I really angered BucsNBills.

[Pirate Life]

Graham made a comment a couple pages ago that Mayfield finishing in the top 10 in like 7 categories in 2024 made him a top 10 NFL quarterback. YET, Tua's numbers in 2023 and Darnold's in 2024 pretty much fit that same bill and people on here like @Pirate Life want to pretend that this didn't happen and wants come up with excuses why "it's different".

Even though Tua played less games than Mayfield, Tua still has a better comp%, ypg, ypa, passer rating, and QBR over the last two combined years... yet, he's apparently not that good and Mayfield is great.

Ah, no. You stated previously that Tua's 23 season was comparable to Mayfield's 24 season. And that Darnold's 24 season was better than Mayfield's 24. Not that they were top ten QBs, not comparing the 23 and 24 seasons combined. Heck, neither of them are top ten on your list either. To refresh your memory:

Does Sam Darnold rank higher than Mayfield on your list? Just curious because Darnold beat Mayfield out for a job at one point that got Mayfield traded when they were on the same team and just last year Darnold's season was better than Mayfield's. Or does that not count because he's not a Buc? Or, how about Tua. His 2023 season was better than Mayfield's and pretty similar to Mayfield's 2024 season. Also, prior to 2023, Tua has been better than Mayfield. Wait, I bet that doesn't count either.

LOL, "credibility".

You have falsely claimed Darnold beat out Mayfield in Carolina, when Mayfield is the one who beat out Darnold for the starting job, Darnold didn't get a start until after Carolina gave up on their season, fired their head coach and traded away McCaffery. Bolded part above you're claiming Darnold's 24 season was better than Mayfield's and that Tua's 23 season was similar to Mayfield's 24 season. Not that they're top 10 QBs.

[BucsNBills]

Boy, I really angered BucsNBills.

Not a big fan of misinformation, That's all.

[Backside]

I’m very behind on the discussions


But Cousins and Russ

This organization has built an offense for a prototypical pocket passer. Excellent pass blocking OLine, excellent pass catching RB's. Quality short, intermediate, and deep route receiving option. Excellent quick decision maker's wet dream. Cousins has always been that. Wilson is that now. Mayfield isn't. He's slow at processing and/or holds the ball too long. Those two would be better fit for our offense than Mayfield.

You’re just completely off man… idk how else to say it.

Our Oline is pretty good and getting better, but Baker still had to use his legs a ton last year. Cousins is completely incapable of doing that. He got BENCHED because he was that fucking bad. I have no idea what you’re basing your argument on here, but it doesn’t match reality.

If a bunch of fans on a message board disagree with you, that’s one thing. But 32 NFL teams disagree with you too. At that point, maybe self analyze a bit (if you’re actually serious with this stuff which is hard to believe at times)

[Bootz]

Boy, I really angered BucsNBills.

Not a big fan of misinformation, That's all.

Biggest liar on this board isn't a fan of misinformation.

I heart irony.

[Central_Buc]

How long have you been a Buc fan? Because I'm not sure you understand how unlucky we've been at the QB position. You can't say Baker isn't going to finish #1 in franchise history giving him a few more years.

No one is saying he's perfect but he's the best mid to long term guy we've had. For once we have someone who can take the reigns for more than 4 years and on his worst day be competent.

I've been a Bucs fan to know that you should never use our history to justify "rationale" in today's game. Reason being, the bar is so low that any QB that doesn't suck, will be a top 3 QB in our teams history. Jameis Winston is the #1 QB in our teams history in terms of yards, yds/att, & TD's and that dude focking sucks. On ANY other team other than the Bucs, post 2017, he's a backup... yet, he was our starter for 2 more years. I said this in another post... if Mayfield can't play for any reason the next 2 years, with the talent we have locked up through the end of the 2026 season, if he doesn't suck, Kyle Trask will no doubt, be in our top 5. It took Mayfield 2 seasons to be in the discussion... and one of them (2023), by virtually every metric, he was "league" average. People are literally calling what to this point is a "career year", be the sole argument to saying Mayfield is either a franchise QB, top 5 or top 10. It's something that NONE them do with other QB's.

I never said anyone is claiming he's perfect. Pat Mahomes isn't perfect. My whole stance was that Mayfield is no better than 25 (give or take), other guys. Let's not make him out to be a stud. He's a JAG and there are well over 20 other JAGS that can come in here and do the same thing... another 5 who WILL do better (that number may be higher after we see another year from a couple of guys). To say he's "Top 10", is a homer stance. You want to call him "Top 10", honestly, go ahead... but don't sit there and say I "hate" the guy or think "we stink", because I don't think he's a top 10 guy. He's around league average. Virtually his entire career says he's "average". The ONLY data point that says he isn't, was last year. I gave people here on this board 2 other players whom in the last 2 years, had similar years to Mayfield - recently, and NO ONE thinks they're top 10. It's bias. Like I said, be bias, but just shut up if I (or others), don't agree with your bias.

I've said multiple times, I'd rather Licht sign him to a 5+ year extension than do these stupid restructures forcing problematic salary cap issues. Next year he's a $50M cap hit. Why? Wtf is that? He's now a $20M+ dead cap him the following year because of avoidable years. Again... why? If Licht (and Bowles), agree with the bias attitude on this board that Mayfield is a top 5 (as some proclaim), how come they didn't give him a 5-year extension (7 overall), eating up the voidable years and spread the money out further? There are only 3 reasons why that didn't happen.

1) Licht and Co didn't believe in Mayfield after 2023 (or 2024), to make that commitment (despite many here thinking they should... apparently).
2) Mayfield thinks he's worth more than the Bucs FO and the FO took the short term route to make things work now.
3) Licht and Co are too scared to make a decision so they're going to wait as long as possible and either be forced to pay Mayfield a huge payday to make the squeaky wheels happy (while hurting the team - see Baltimore Ravens & Joe Flacco new contract), or let him walk and piss off the squeaky wheels.

(Do you have another reason why all we did was fock ourselves with Mayfield's contract next year?)

So, it seems to me that either a lot of people are going to be ticked off when Mayfield walks after 2026 because the FO agrees with me or we're going to be in a continual state of fudging with the cap to keep him around, just enough so that we can bring back a player or two or bring in a mid-level FA in, to fill a hole... that doesn't really improve our team, it just prevents us from getting worse. The word that describes that is: "Pretender". We literally have an elite offense surrounding Mayfield. Teams don't do that very long. Hell, KC only had it for 3 years for Mahomes.

People here are already blaming Todd Bowles. I find it funny how when I say we shouldn't pay Mayfield a lot of money, that the response I get is "Who else are you going to get"... yet, they never have a good response to firing Bowles. If there's another candidate out there better than Bowles, the questions are... how do you know he'll be better... if he will be better, why isn't he one now... if he is better now, how come he'll be available next year.

Fans on this board, and I believe the Glazers and Licht, fall into the Voltaire line of thinking. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good." In the NFL world, that translates to "Why be a contender when the fanbase will accept a pretender". Another way of saying that is, "Let's just be good enough to stay competitive and hope that one day we'll get lucky and win a championship." Well, that's not me. I'm of the mindset that says "Keep trying until you find Tom Brady (Pat Mahomes)". In other words, Jim Collins. "Good is the enemy of Great".

So, if some people want to act like douchebags because I don't think Mayfield is all that special, then I'll give it back in kind.

I just want to point a couple of examples. It's not that our franchise can't draft quality Qbs, it's actually been quite the opposite. Steve Young, Doug Williams, Vinny Testaverde. We just did not have the culture for these guys to succeed.

Imagine if any of these three had what we have today? It matters because unlike those days we now have an organization that cares about the process, stability and with that winning.

We've come along way since the Glazers bought the team. The Glazers (say what you will) at least care even if not perfect, they imo try to correct themselves

[CannonFire]

Graham made a comment a couple pages ago that Mayfield finishing in the top 10 in like 7 categories in 2024 made him a top 10 NFL quarterback. YET, Tua's numbers in 2023 and Darnold's in 2024 pretty much fit that same bill and people on here like @Pirate Life want to pretend that this didn't happen and wants come up with excuses why "it's different".

Even though Tua played less games than Mayfield, Tua still has a better comp%, ypg, ypa, passer rating, and QBR over the last two combined years... yet, he's apparently not that good and Mayfield is great.

Ah, no. You stated previously that Tua's 23 season was comparable to Mayfield's 24 season. And that Darnold's 24 season was better than Mayfield's 24. Not that they were top ten QBs, not comparing the 23 and 24 seasons combined. Heck, neither of them are top ten on your list either. To refresh your memory:

Does Sam Darnold rank higher than Mayfield on your list? Just curious because Darnold beat Mayfield out for a job at one point that got Mayfield traded when they were on the same team and just last year Darnold's season was better than Mayfield's. Or does that not count because he's not a Buc? Or, how about Tua. His 2023 season was better than Mayfield's and pretty similar to Mayfield's 2024 season. Also, prior to 2023, Tua has been better than Mayfield. Wait, I bet that doesn't count either.

LOL, "credibility".

You have falsely claimed Darnold beat out Mayfield in Carolina, when Mayfield is the one who beat out Darnold for the starting job, Darnold didn't get a start until after Carolina gave up on their season, fired their head coach and traded away McCaffery. Bolded part above you're claiming Darnold's 24 season was better than Mayfield's and that Tua's 23 season was similar to Mayfield's 24 season. Not that they're top 10 QBs.

My post was a reply to Graham's. In that context, yes, they're comparable because in all of those categories, they're both in the top 10. I'm sorry that those facts don't match your feelings. I said you were right about Darnold not beating out Mayfield, but you choose to make excuses why with the same players, Darnold was much better.

Ok, Darnold's numbers weren't better (I was going off memory from a game late in the season that showed Darnold was leading the league in yards, so sue me), but are you telling me that they're not similar? Give me a break.

[CannonFire]

Boy, I really angered BucsNBills.

Not a big fan of misinformation, That's all.

What was misinformation? At worst, Darnold's 2024 season and Tua's 2023 are comparable to Mayfield's 2024 season. That statement is a fact. I'm sorry they hurt your feelings. Be better, is my advice.

[Pirate Life]

My post was a reply to Graham's. In that context, yes, they're comparable because in all of those categories, they're both in the top 10. I'm sorry that those facts don't match your feelings. I said you were right about Darnold not beating out Mayfield, but you choose to make excuses why with the same players, Darnold was much better.

Ok, Darnold's numbers weren't better (I was going off memory from a game late in the season that showed Darnold was leading the league in yards, so sue me), but are you telling me that they're not similar? Give me a break.

No, you said Mayfield was named the starter because Darnold was injured.

I made no excuses for Darnold's numbers being better, stated the conditions when Darnold was named the starter, ie he was named the starter after they essentially bailed on their season.

Similar? That's not the argument you've been making, but it's the one you are trying to squirm into rather than just state the obvious: Mayfield isn't as a bad a QB as you thought. Just look at what I quoted in bold, you didn't say they were similar you flat out stated Darnold had a better season than Mayfield last year. That's in no way, shape or form an attempt to argue that they are 'similar'.

It's ok to admit you were mistaken in how Mayfield stacks up against the other QBs in the league.

[Grahamburn]

It's ok to admit you were mistaken in how Mayfield stacks up against the other QBs in the league.

Apparently it is not.

[Pirate Life]

It's ok to admit you were mistaken in how Mayfield stacks up against the other QBs in the league.

Apparently it is not.

Getting to a more absurd level than some of the folks who used to still think Winston is a good QB.

[CannonFire]

I've been a Bucs fan to know that you should never use our history to justify "rationale" in today's game. Reason being, the bar is so low that any QB that doesn't suck, will be a top 3 QB in our teams history. Jameis Winston is the #1 QB in our teams history in terms of yards, yds/att, & TD's and that dude focking sucks. On ANY other team other than the Bucs, post 2017, he's a backup... yet, he was our starter for 2 more years. I said this in another post... if Mayfield can't play for any reason the next 2 years, with the talent we have locked up through the end of the 2026 season, if he doesn't suck, Kyle Trask will no doubt, be in our top 5. It took Mayfield 2 seasons to be in the discussion... and one of them (2023), by virtually every metric, he was "league" average. People are literally calling what to this point is a "career year", be the sole argument to saying Mayfield is either a franchise QB, top 5 or top 10. It's something that NONE them do with other QB's.

I never said anyone is claiming he's perfect. Pat Mahomes isn't perfect. My whole stance was that Mayfield is no better than 25 (give or take), other guys. Let's not make him out to be a stud. He's a JAG and there are well over 20 other JAGS that can come in here and do the same thing... another 5 who WILL do better (that number may be higher after we see another year from a couple of guys). To say he's "Top 10", is a homer stance. You want to call him "Top 10", honestly, go ahead... but don't sit there and say I "hate" the guy or think "we stink", because I don't think he's a top 10 guy. He's around league average. Virtually his entire career says he's "average". The ONLY data point that says he isn't, was last year. I gave people here on this board 2 other players whom in the last 2 years, had similar years to Mayfield - recently, and NO ONE thinks they're top 10. It's bias. Like I said, be bias, but just shut up if I (or others), don't agree with your bias.

I've said multiple times, I'd rather Licht sign him to a 5+ year extension than do these stupid restructures forcing problematic salary cap issues. Next year he's a $50M cap hit. Why? Wtf is that? He's now a $20M+ dead cap him the following year because of avoidable years. Again... why? If Licht (and Bowles), agree with the bias attitude on this board that Mayfield is a top 5 (as some proclaim), how come they didn't give him a 5-year extension (7 overall), eating up the voidable years and spread the money out further? There are only 3 reasons why that didn't happen.

1) Licht and Co didn't believe in Mayfield after 2023 (or 2024), to make that commitment (despite many here thinking they should... apparently).
2) Mayfield thinks he's worth more than the Bucs FO and the FO took the short term route to make things work now.
3) Licht and Co are too scared to make a decision so they're going to wait as long as possible and either be forced to pay Mayfield a huge payday to make the squeaky wheels happy (while hurting the team - see Baltimore Ravens & Joe Flacco new contract), or let him walk and piss off the squeaky wheels.

(Do you have another reason why all we did was fock ourselves with Mayfield's contract next year?)

So, it seems to me that either a lot of people are going to be ticked off when Mayfield walks after 2026 because the FO agrees with me or we're going to be in a continual state of fudging with the cap to keep him around, just enough so that we can bring back a player or two or bring in a mid-level FA in, to fill a hole... that doesn't really improve our team, it just prevents us from getting worse. The word that describes that is: "Pretender". We literally have an elite offense surrounding Mayfield. Teams don't do that very long. Hell, KC only had it for 3 years for Mahomes.

People here are already blaming Todd Bowles. I find it funny how when I say we shouldn't pay Mayfield a lot of money, that the response I get is "Who else are you going to get"... yet, they never have a good response to firing Bowles. If there's another candidate out there better than Bowles, the questions are... how do you know he'll be better... if he will be better, why isn't he one now... if he is better now, how come he'll be available next year.

Fans on this board, and I believe the Glazers and Licht, fall into the Voltaire line of thinking. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good." In the NFL world, that translates to "Why be a contender when the fanbase will accept a pretender". Another way of saying that is, "Let's just be good enough to stay competitive and hope that one day we'll get lucky and win a championship." Well, that's not me. I'm of the mindset that says "Keep trying until you find Tom Brady (Pat Mahomes)". In other words, Jim Collins. "Good is the enemy of Great".

So, if some people want to act like douchebags because I don't think Mayfield is all that special, then I'll give it back in kind.

I just want to point a couple of examples. It's not that our franchise can't draft quality Qbs, it's actually been quite the opposite. Steve Young, Doug Williams, Vinny Testaverde. We just did not have the culture for these guys to succeed.

Imagine if any of these three had what we have today? It matters because unlike those days we now have an organization that cares about the process, stability and with that winning.

We've come along way since the Glazers bought the team. The Glazers (say what you will) at least care even if not perfect, they imo try to correct themselves

I think you're taking a lot of stretches with 2 of those 3.

Doug Williams had 14 starts after he left Tampa. Seriously? Come on. He had a great run with the best team in the NFL in 1987. He didn't do anything different than what Nick Foles did back 2017.

Vinny was never able to stay healthy. Every QB has growing pains, more so in that era than any other. They did get better over time, but let's not get carried away and say that he was really all that better elsewhere than here. Other teams knew that and that's why they let him walk after 2 or 3 years. The Jets let him linger on, but 4 of the 7 years he was there, he played less than 8 games. He had 1 season there where he played out of his mind, 1998. In the other 2 years he played 13+ games, he completed 57% of his passes and had 3 more INT's than TD's. He was Ryan Fitzpatrick before Ryan Fitzpatrick was Ryan Fitzpatrick. You want to say he was better? Ok... he was a backup with us... he was a great backup with everyone else. So, it's setting a bar so low, that low can still be an upgrade. That's not anything different than here.


With the team we have now? How'd they fare? Probably pretty darn well. But I think that you would be making my argument about Mayfield. "Any competent starting QB could do well with this team".


I think Malcolm was a John Collins owner. I think Brian and Joel are Voltaire owners.

[Central_Buc]

Not a big fan of misinformation, That's all.

Biggest liar on this board isn't a fan of misinformation.

I heart irony.

Oops I looked.

[CannonFire]

My post was a reply to Graham's. In that context, yes, they're comparable because in all of those categories, they're both in the top 10. I'm sorry that those facts don't match your feelings. I said you were right about Darnold not beating out Mayfield, but you choose to make excuses why with the same players, Darnold was much better.

Ok, Darnold's numbers weren't better (I was going off memory from a game late in the season that showed Darnold was leading the league in yards, so sue me), but are you telling me that they're not similar? Give me a break.

No, you said Mayfield was named the starter because Darnold was injured.

Yeah, and I said you were right about that, like 2 or 3 times... WTF?

I made no excuses for Darnold's numbers being better, stated the conditions when Darnold was named the starter, ie he was named the starter after they essentially bailed on their season.

F.y.i. bolded = excuse

Similar? That's not the argument you've been making, but it's the one you are trying to squirm into rather than just state the obvious: Mayfield isn't as a bad a QB as you thought. Just look at what I quoted in bold, you didn't say they were similar you flat out stated Darnold had a better season than Mayfield last year. That's in no way, shape or form an attempt to argue that they are 'similar'.

It was my point that I was making, that you jumped in on. That's a you problem, not a me problem.

It's ok to admit you were mistaken in how Mayfield stacks up against the other QBs in the league.

Yeah, and I don't think you're going to do that.

[Sooner06]

Lol, interesting that the Baker detractors won't address his playoff performances vs. Tua and Darnold. You know, when the quality of their play matters the most. Probably has something to do with the fact that both have been tragically bad in the playoffs?

Tua and Darnold in the playoffs have combined for just 2 playoff games since '23, with a combined completion%≈56%, 2 TDs/2 INTs, Succ%31%, Passer Rating≈71. Oh, and they've won exactly zero playoffs games, for those that like W/L stats for QBs. With stats like those, small wonder.



Baker in the last two seasons has played 3 playoff games, with a 1-2 record.

Baker's relevant playoff stats:

completion%≈73% TD/INT=8/2 Succ%≈55 Passer Rating≈120

In Baker's 5 playoff games, he's thrown 12 TDs/3 INTs.

Never thrown for less than a 61.1% completion rate.

Only played one playoff game in which he threw for less than 2 TDs. Only thrown INTs in two games. Only one in which he threw more than 1 INT.

In 4 of his 5 playoff games he's thrown multiple TDs, 3 of which he threw for 3 TDs/game.

Only one game in which he threw for less than average Passer Rating (74.6, vs. KC in 2021). Average PR in his remaining 4 playoff games: 119.

In fact, when you dig into these QBs playoff stats, Baker isn't just better, he's so much better in every area statistically, there is no comparison between Baker and those other two QBs. Watching the tapes of those games just confirms the stats. Even moreso when -you realize that both Tua and Darnold went into their respective playoff games with better weapons and at least comparable if not better defenses.

[CannonFire]

Lol, interesting that the Baker detractors won't address his playoff performances vs. Tua and Darnold. You know, when the quality of their play matters the most. Probably has something to do with the fact that both have been tragically bad in the playoffs?

Tua and Darnold in the playoffs have combined for just 2 playoff games since '23, with a combined completion%≈56%, 2 TDs/2 INTs, Succ%31%, Passer Rating≈71. Oh, and they've won exactly zero playoffs games, for those that like W/L stats for QBs. With stats like those, small wonder.



Baker in the last two seasons has played 3 playoff games, with a 1-2 record.

Baker's relevant playoff stats:

completion%≈73% TD/INT=8/2 Succ%≈55 Passer Rating≈120



In fact, when you dig into these QBs playoff stats, Baker isn't just better, he's so much better in every area statistically, there is no comparison between Baker and those other two QBs. Watching the tapes of those games just confirms the stats. Even moreso when -you realize that both Tua and Darnold went into their respective playoff games with better weapons and at least comparable if not better defenses.

Mayfield's only win was against a team that quit 7 weeks earlier. In the other 2 games, he made the turnover that locked in a loss. Yeah, Mayfield was great.

[Central_Buc]

Lol, interesting that the Baker detractors won't address his playoff performances vs. Tua and Darnold. You know, when the quality of their play matters the most. Probably has something to do with the fact that both have been tragically bad in the playoffs?

Tua and Darnold in the playoffs have combined for just 2 playoff games since '23, with a combined completion%≈56%, 2 TDs/2 INTs, Succ%31%, Passer Rating≈71. Oh, and they've won exactly zero playoffs games, for those that like W/L stats for QBs. With stats like those, small wonder.



Baker in the last two seasons has played 3 playoff games, with a 1-2 record.

Baker's relevant playoff stats:

completion%≈73% TD/INT=8/2 Succ%≈55 Passer Rating≈120



In fact, when you dig into these QBs playoff stats, Baker isn't just better, he's so much better in every area statistically, there is no comparison between Baker and those other two QBs. Watching the tapes of those games just confirms the stats. Even moreso when -you realize that both Tua and Darnold went into their respective playoff games with better weapons and at least comparable if not better defenses.

Mayfield's only win was against a team that quit 7 weeks earlier. In the other 2 games, he made the turnover that locked in a loss. Yeah, Mayfield was great.

So beating the Steelers in PGH 2020 when he was in Cleveland doesn't count? He actually came close to beating the Chiefs the following week.. who we ended up playing in the SB.

I guess that doesn't count either . Lol

It would have been interesting if we played Cleveland in the SB against Baker knowing now he eventually would be our QB

[CannonFire]

It's ok to admit you were mistaken in how Mayfield stacks up against the other QBs in the league.

Apparently it is not.

Agreed, I don't think he's going to do that.

[CannonFire]

Mayfield's only win was against a team that quit 7 weeks earlier. In the other 2 games, he made the turnover that locked in a loss. Yeah, Mayfield was great.

So beating the Steelers in PGH when he was in Cleveland doesn't count? He actually came close to beating the Chiefs the following week..

I guess that doesn't count either . Lol

By this logic, why didn't sign Nick Foles to a long term deal? Nick Foles won a Super Bowl.

[Central_Buc]

So beating the Steelers in PGH when he was in Cleveland doesn't count? He actually came close to beating the Chiefs the following week..

I guess that doesn't count either . Lol

By this logic, why didn't sign Nick Foles to a long term deal? Nick Foles won a Super Bowl.

Where is Nick Foles now? I don't understand the logic. Baker will be a starter for the next 9 seasons.

I say 9 because of the way QB is protected now and the game is safer with the knowledge of cte.

Edit: a little more safer now but not completely

[Sooner06]

Lol, interesting that the Baker detractors won't address his playoff performances vs. Tua and Darnold. You know, when the quality of their play matters the most. Probably has something to do with the fact that both have been tragically bad in the playoffs?

Tua and Darnold in the playoffs have combined for just 2 playoff games since '23, with a combined completion%≈56%, 2 TDs/2 INTs, Succ%31%, Passer Rating≈71. Oh, and they've won exactly zero playoffs games, for those that like W/L stats for QBs. With stats like those, small wonder.



Baker in the last two seasons has played 3 playoff games, with a 1-2 record.

Baker's relevant playoff stats:

completion%≈73% TD/INT=8/2 Succ%≈55 Passer Rating≈120



In fact, when you dig into these QBs playoff stats, Baker isn't just better, he's so much better in every area statistically, there is no comparison between Baker and those other two QBs. Watching the tapes of those games just confirms the stats. Even moreso when -you realize that both Tua and Darnold went into their respective playoff games with better weapons and at least comparable if not better defenses.

Mayfield's only win was against a team that quit 7 weeks earlier. In the other 2 games, he made the turnover that locked in a loss. Yeah, Mayfield was great.

Lol, you'll notice that I didn't actually say that Baker was great. I simply pointed out that he's been statistically far, far better than your two QBs of choice when it mattered. And it's not been close at all.


Uh, Baker's won two playoff games. And if you're going to blame Baker for the DET loss in '23, shouldn't you also put some of the onus on Evans for dropping that sure TD earlier in the game that would've either tied or won the game for TB? Or was that drop Baker's fault as well?

[Sooner06]

delete; double post

[Pirate Life]

Yeah, and I said you were right about that, like 2 or 3 times... WTF?

Not before I'd posted a correction several times, the part you are quoting here was the first time you admitted it actually.

F.y.i. bolded = excuse

Ah, no.. that's not an excuse, just stating the conditions when Darnold was finally named a starter in 22. You may need one of these: , might help you the way you are grasping.

It was my point that I was making, that you jumped in on. That's a you problem, not a me problem.

...except that wasn't the point you were making, you were stating Darnold's season last year was better than Mayfield's. That Tua's 23 season was comparable to Mayfield's 24. Not that all three were top 10. You've shifted from trying to say that the two QBs (and others) were better than Mayfield to saying they are somehow interchangeable (while still trying to make Mayfield the worst of the group). Lately, you've been harping on Mayfield's contract and the money he'll cost. Last year, he was the 26th highest paid QB just behind Jarrett Stidham. In 25, he'll be 15th. In 26 he'll be 13th. If he sustains his level of play relative to the league, he's statistically a top 10 QB being paid like roughly the 18th best. That's a bargain by anyone's math (btw: Tua's getting paid more than Mayfield in all three years).

It's ok to admit you were mistaken in how Mayfield stacks up against the other QBs in the league.

Yeah, and I don't think you're going to do that.


Probably not, but hope springs eternal and as a Bucs fan I'm used to futility. =)

[Central_Buc]

I just want to point a couple of examples. It's not that our franchise can't draft quality Qbs, it's actually been quite the opposite. Steve Young, Doug Williams, Vinny Testaverde. We just did not have the culture for these guys to succeed.

Imagine if any of these three had what we have today? It matters because unlike those days we now have an organization that cares about the process, stability and with that winning.

We've come along way since the Glazers bought the team. The Glazers (say what you will) at least care even if not perfect, they imo try to correct themselves

I think you're taking a lot of stretches with 2 of those 3.

Doug Williams had 14 starts after he left Tampa. Seriously? Come on. He had a great run with the best team in the NFL in 1987. He didn't do anything different than what Nick Foles did back 2017.

Vinny was never able to stay healthy. Every QB has growing pains, more so in that era than any other. They did get better over time, but let's not get carried away and say that he was really all that better elsewhere than here. Other teams knew that and that's why they let him walk after 2 or 3 years. The Jets let him linger on, but 4 of the 7 years he was there, he played less than 8 games. He had 1 season there where he played out of his mind, 1998. In the other 2 years he played 13+ games, he completed 57% of his passes and had 3 more INT's than TD's. He was Ryan Fitzpatrick before Ryan Fitzpatrick was Ryan Fitzpatrick. You want to say he was better? Ok... he was a backup with us... he was a great backup with everyone else. So, it's setting a bar so low, that low can still be an upgrade. That's not anything different than here.


With the team we have now? How'd they fare? Probably pretty darn well. But I think that you would be making my argument about Mayfield. "Any competent starting QB could do well with this team".


I think Malcolm was a John Collins owner. I think Brian and Joel are Voltaire owners.

Imagine if Williams had a "real" chance at starting in this league rather than being asked after the Superbowl

"BRO WHATS IT LIKE WINNING THE SUPER BOWL AS A BLACK QB"

I bet Williams would be a top 10 QB today.

[Central_Buc]

Ha ha Sims has Baker at #9.

Former Bucs QB to another

[Sooner06]

Ha ha Sims has Baker at #9.

Former Bucs QB to another

eh, I don't think that's a terrible guess. Baker has put together two pretty good seasons stats-wise, but he obviously needs to have a better season in 2025 as far as INTs. And, after watching the tapes, he had some games where he didn't really perform up to his average/standard. he needs to be more consistent with his decision-making. Right now, I'd say he's closer to 10 than 5. If he puts together yet another solid season, this time with say 10 INTs or less (assuming at least 32 TDs) then I would feel more comfortable putting him closer to 5th among currently active QBs. Even then, I'd be careful about putting him the top-5.

[Central_Buc]

Ha ha Sims has Baker at #9.

Former Bucs QB to another

eh, I don't think that's a terrible guess. Baker has put together two pretty good seasons stats-wise, but he obviously needs to have a better season in 2025 as far as INTs. And, after watching the tapes, he had some games where he didn't really perform up to his average/standard. he needs to be more consistent with his decision-making. Right now, I'd say he's closer to 10 than 5. If he puts together yet another solid season, this time with say 10 INTs or less (assuming at least 32 TDs) then I would feel more comfortable putting him closer to 5th among currently active QBs. Even then, I'd be careful about putting him the top-5.

I give him a break because he's been betrayed and jerked around early in his career.

Ask Cleveland fans how they feel about Mayfield now.

Mayfield has a good RB and a good receiving back, improved OL, potentially 4 top WR provided McMillan made improvements in the offseason and Egbuka's raw talent. They're saying rookie of the year candidate.

[BucsNBills]

Ha ha Sims has Baker at #9.

Former Bucs QB to another

That's a perfectly fair ranking. But you can't make a serious top 10 QB list and not include Baker in it.

Mahomes
Allen
Lamar
Burrow
Stafford
Hurts
Daniels
Herbert
Baker


That's my top 9. Or in other words, there are only eight QBs we could trade Baker for straight up that would make me more confident about our 2025 season.

[Central_Buc]

Ha ha Sims has Baker at #9.

Former Bucs QB to another

That's a perfectly fair ranking. But you can't make a serious top 10 QB list and not include Baker in it.

Mahomes
Allen
Lamar
Burrow
Stafford
Hurts
Daniels
Herbert
Baker


That's my top 9. Or in other words, there are only eight QBs we could trade Baker for straight up that would make me more confident about our 2025 season.

Forward to 23:30 ladies and gentlemen

[YT][/YT]

[BucsNBills]

The Patriots, Steelers, Saints, Colts, and Giants still haven’t recovered from losing their HoF QBs. Meanwhile, we’re heading for a third straight division title since Brady retired.

Without Baker stepping up to the impossible task of replacing the GOAT, we’d be just as irrelevant. The Patriots alone have burned through three head coaches and six starting QBs, including multiple first-round picks, since Brady left.

Maybe some should appreciate the sustained success we've enjoyed thus far, with no indication of that ending any time soon.

[Bootz]

You can ALWAYS count on LUGZ to make a disingenuous argument.

[Central_Buc]

You can ALWAYS count on LUGZ to make a disingenuous argument.

Yeah but you're an Eagles fan right? You made a thread dedicated to worshiping and appreciation of Hurts after the SB.. to each his own I guess.

Oops I looked again.

[Sooner06]

Lol, interesting that the Baker detractors won't address his playoff performances vs. Tua and Darnold. You know, when the quality of their play matters the most. Probably has something to do with the fact that both have been tragically bad in the playoffs?

Tua and Darnold in the playoffs have combined for just 2 playoff games since '23, with a combined completion%≈56%, 2 TDs/2 INTs, Succ%31%, Passer Rating≈71. Oh, and they've won exactly zero playoffs games, for those that like W/L stats for QBs. With stats like those, small wonder.



Baker in the last two seasons has played 3 playoff games, with a 1-2 record.

Baker's relevant playoff stats:

completion%≈73% TD/INT=8/2 Succ%≈55 Passer Rating≈120



In fact, when you dig into these QBs playoff stats, Baker isn't just better, he's so much better in every area statistically, there is no comparison between Baker and those other two QBs. Watching the tapes of those games just confirms the stats. Even moreso when -you realize that both Tua and Darnold went into their respective playoff games with better weapons and at least comparable if not better defenses.

Mayfield's only win was against a team that quit 7 weeks earlier. In the other 2 games, he made the turnover that locked in a loss. Yeah, Mayfield was great.

Uh, the INT in the KC game wasn't really on Baker, it was just a really great play by Mathieu. I was at that game, and the turnover that made a real difference was by Higgins after being separated from the ball by a borderline illegal helmet-to-helmet hit by Dan Sorensen, at the KC-GL. That erased at least 6 pts for Baker and CLE in the first half. In the 2nd half, Mathieu simply makes a great, and typical for Tyrann, play for an INT in CLE's first drive.

Then Baker drove the browns 77 and 75 yds for TDs on their next two possessions, down 19-3, to make it 17-22, but CLE's defense was so poor they couldn't stop Henne from icing the game for the Chiefs, with a scoring drive for a FG and their final pair of drives that ate up more than 7 minutes to finish the game.

But the reality of that game was that Sorensen's debatable hit on Higgins as he was going into the EZ towards the end of the first half is what cost Baker and the browns that playoff game, not Baker's INT. Higgins holds onto that ball and scores that TD, CLE wins that game 23 or 24 to 22-KC.


I mean Baker has actually played well in the playoffs, multiple times, and really hasn't played a game as poorly as your two QBs in the postseason. Not even remotely close to as bad as your guys.

If you want to take Tua and Darnold over Baker, based on a questionable/flawed statistical argument, that's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But I'll take the guy that has played well enough to win nearly every playoff game he's played in vs. two guys that haven't been able to complete passes or throw TDs in any of their total combined playoff opportunities, much less actually produce any Ws at all, regardless of whether one thinks Baker is responsible for each and every loss in the playoffs.


Ymmv.

[Central_Buc]

Sims has Mayfield above Hurts LOOOOL

[Sooner06]

Sims has Mayfield above Hurts LOOOOL

I would tend to agree with that. Hurts can't use the whole field, and the only attribute he has that's obviously and significantly superior to Baker is his running ability. Given equal teams, Baker would almost certainly perform better than Hurts, the only real question would be to what degree.