Before this SB, did you literally ever hear Stafford mentioned as a Hall Of Famer? Should one game - with a loaded team - change that? Especially when he threw two picks and didn't win MVP?
There's a bigger gap between, say, Stafford and Rivers (a very low-end future HOFer) and Stafford and someone like Joe Flacco, another SB winner who has zero chance at the HOF.
There's not much of a gap between Stafford and Rivers for me. Other than Rivers played for a much less incompetent franchise for the entirety of his career.
Regular season numbers for both through their careers:
And I don't think there's much of an argument as to who had better teams around them for the majority of their careers. The only superstar Stafford ever played with in Detroit was Megatron. Rivers had Antonio Gates, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Vincent Jackson at the same time. Followed by Keenan Allen, etc.
This is not me talking down on Philip Rivers, I think he's a low-end HoF QB for sure. I just think Stafford has been severely underrated for the majority of his career. And for all of the super team talk, how often do those super teams actually win a championship? This is honestly one of the only times I can recall it happening.
Before this SB, did you literally ever hear Stafford mentioned as a Hall Of Famer? Should one game - with a loaded team - change that? Especially when he threw two picks and didn't win MVP?
There's a bigger gap between, say, Stafford and Rivers (a very low-end future HOFer) and Stafford and someone like Joe Flacco, another SB winner who has zero chance at the HOF.
There's not much of a gap between Stafford and Rivers for me. Other than Rivers played for a much less incompetent franchise for the entirety of his career.
Regular season numbers for both through their careers:
And I don't think there's much of an argument as to who had better teams around them for the majority of their careers. The only superstar Stafford ever played with in Detroit was Megatron. Rivers had Antonio Gates, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Vincent Jackson at the same time. Followed by Keenan Allen, etc.
This is not me talking down on Philip Rivers, I think he's a low-end HoF QB for sure. I just think Stafford has been severely underrated for the majority of his career. And for all of the super team talk, how often do those super teams actually win a championship? This is honestly one of the only times I can recall it happening.
The argument for Rivers is raw stats, and that's the argument for Stafford as well, except his raw stats aren't nearly as accumulated. The only counter-point for me now is the ring. I just don't put that much stock in 1 ring, especially because it's hard to argue he elevated the Rams. They had more talent than the Goff teams, and Goff was one play away from winning his own ring there. And Goff is terrible.
Now, if the next 3-5 years yield another ring and/or some eye-popping MVP level dominance, I'll change my tune.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
There's not much of a gap between Stafford and Rivers for me. Other than Rivers played for a much less incompetent franchise for the entirety of his career.
Regular season numbers for both through their careers:
And I don't think there's much of an argument as to who had better teams around them for the majority of their careers. The only superstar Stafford ever played with in Detroit was Megatron. Rivers had Antonio Gates, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Vincent Jackson at the same time. Followed by Keenan Allen, etc.
This is not me talking down on Philip Rivers, I think he's a low-end HoF QB for sure. I just think Stafford has been severely underrated for the majority of his career. And for all of the super team talk, how often do those super teams actually win a championship? This is honestly one of the only times I can recall it happening.
The argument for Rivers is raw stats, and that's the argument for Stafford as well, except his raw stats aren't nearly as accumulated. The only counter-point for me now is the ring. I just don't put that much stock in 1 ring, especially because it's hard to argue he elevated the Rams. They had more talent than the Goff teams, and Goff was one play away from winning his own ring there. And Goff is terrible.
Now, if the next 3-5 years yield another ring and/or some eye-popping MVP level dominance, I'll change my tune.
Stafford still has the easy (barring injury obviously) opportunity to accumulate stats similar enough to Rivers that any difference will be pretty much irrelevant. All I'm saying is that if you consider Rivers to be a low-end HoF QB and don't consider Stafford in the same light, or at least acknowledge that he's not far off at all, then you fucked up somewhere in your analytical process because frankly that opinion is stupid. It just doesn't hold up logically. One player has played longer (at this point) and with significantly more talent for their entire career and despite that If Stafford plays for 3 more seasons at around his level of play this year he'll have this stat line for his career:
Yds: 64,653 Tds: 446 Ints: 212
Is it a sure thing? Well, obviously not, because making predictions isn't science and any number of things could happen in the meantime. However, the strong resistance to Stafford being even in consideration as a HoF QB is pretty fucking ridiculous.
I will concede that had Stafford (or maybe even Rivers?) ended up on better teams they could easily be on Big Bens level or above. Maybe Matt Ryan too? But they didn't. Furthermore, they chose to re-sign with those franchises. They bet their careers on those teams and now have to live and die by that.
As it stands now I don't think any of them is really a HoFer, though that's not saying they didn't have the talent to be.
Doctor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:28 pm
I will concede that had Stafford (or maybe even Rivers?) ended up on better teams they could easily be on Big Bens level or above. Maybe Matt Ryan too? But they didn't. Furthermore, they chose to re-sign with those franchises. They bet their careers on those teams and now have to live and die by that.
As it stands now I don't think any of them is really a HoFer, though that's not saying they didn't have the talent to be.
Doctor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:28 pm
I will concede that had Stafford (or maybe even Rivers?) ended up on better teams they could easily be on Big Bens level or above. Maybe Matt Ryan too? But they didn't. Furthermore, they chose to re-sign with those franchises. They bet their careers on those teams and now have to live and die by that.
As it stands now I don't think any of them is really a HoFer, though that's not saying they didn't have the talent to be.
What better teams that needed their services??
This is a stupid question that doesn't deserve a real answer.
I think Rivers is like Marino in the fact that he never won anything but should at the very least be put in the discussion. I'd say Stafford too, but how many playoff games did he actually appear in? With his stats and 1 ring, he's definitely in the discussion now whether it's merit or not. Didn't Stafford always manage to stink it up when he was actually needed? Also looking to see how many playoff games Rivers appeared in. Haven't found it. He may very well be like Stafford too then. I never really paid to much attention to him except the fact that I thought he was a pretty good QB. Wasn't in our conference so I didn't care.
Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5 (tied with Ray Buivid, Jameis Winston, Deshaun Watson, and Daniel Jones)[235]
Youngest quarterback to throw for at least five touchdowns in a single game (21 years, 288 days) (November 22, 2009 against the Cleveland Browns)[236]
First player in NFL history to complete 60% or more of all passes in each game in a season (2015)[237]
Most games with at least one touchdown pass in a season: 16 (2011, tied NFL record)[238]
Most consecutive 350+ yards passing games: 4 (2011–2012, tied with Drew Brees)[239]
Most passing yards thrown for in a single game without a touchdown pass: (443, December 22, 2012 against the Atlanta Falcons)[240]
Most passing attempts in a season: 727 (2012)[241]
Most pass attempts per game, season: 45.44, 2012[242]
Most games with 40+ pass attempts in a season: 13 (2012)[243]
Fastest player to reach 20,000 career passing yards (71 games played)[244]
Fastest player to reach 25,000 career passing yards (90 games played)[245]
Fastest player to reach 30,000 career passing yards (109 games played)[246]
Fastest player to reach 35,000 career passing yards (126 games played)
Fastest player to reach 40,000 career passing yards (147 games played)[197]
Fastest player to reach 45,000 career passing yards (165 games played)[247]
Fastest player to reach 3,000 completions (125 games played)[248]
Most passing yards in first 100 games (27,890) [249]
Most fourth-quarter comebacks in a season: 8 (2016)[250]
Most game-winning drives in a single season: 8 (2016)[251]
First QB in NFL history with 6,000 Pass Yards, 50 Pass TD and a Super Bowl win in a single regular + postseason (2021) [252]
Detroit Lions franchise records
Most career pass completions – 3,898 (2009–2020)[253]
Most passing completions in a single season – 435 (2012)[254]
Most career pass attempts – 6,224 (2009–2020)[255]
Most passing attempts in a single season – 727 (2012)[256]
Most passing attempts in a game – 63 (November 13, 2011 against the Chicago Bears)[257]
Highest career completion percentage – 62.6% (2009–2020)[258]
Highest completion percentage in a single season – 67.2% (2015)[259]
Highest completion percentage in a game – 88.0% (December 21, 2015 vs. New Orleans Saints)[260]
Most career passing yards – 45,109 (2009–2020)[261]
Most passing yards in a single season – 5,038 (2011)[259]
Most passing yards in a game – 520 (January 1, 2012 vs. Green Bay Packers)
Most career 4,000 passing yard seasons – 8[262]
Most consecutive seasons with 4,000 passing yards – 7 (2011–2017)[263]
Most career games with 400+ passing yards – 10 (2009–2020)[264][265]
Most career games with 300+ passing yards – 49 (2009–2020) [266]
Most games with 300+ passing yards in a single season – 8 (2011 and 2012)
Most passing touchdowns in a single season – 41 (2011)[259]
Most passing touchdowns in a game – 5
Most career passing touchdowns – 282 (2009–2020)[267]
Most games in a season with at least one passing touchdown – 16 (2011)
Lowest career interception percentage – 2.3% (2009–2020)[268]
Most career yards per game – 273.4 (2009–2020)
Most yards per game in a single season – 314.9 (2011)
Highest career passer rating – 89.9 (2009–2020)
Highest passer rating in a single season – 106.0 (2017)
Most career fourth quarter comeback wins – 31 [269]
Most fourth-quarter comeback wins in a single season – 8 (2016) (NFL record)[250]
Most career game-winning drives – 38 [269]
Most game-winning drives in a single season – 8 (2016) (NFL record)[251]
Most consecutive completed pass attempts in a game – 14 (December 4, 2016 vs. New Orleans Saints)[270]
Los Angeles Rams franchise records
Most touchdown passes in a single season – 41 (2021) (tied with Kurt Warner)
Most passing yards in a single season – 4,886 (2021)
Most pass completions in a single season – 404 (2021)
Playoff appearances: 4, 1 with Rams
Playoff Record: 4-3 (All 4 wins came this season with Rams)
Philip Rivers Records:
NFL records
NFL record for consecutive completions (25) November 25, 2018[216] (tied with Ryan Tannehill and Nick Foles)[217]
Consecutive games with a passer rating above 120: 5[218]
Former NFL records
Single-game completion percentage (min. 20 attempts): 96.55% (28/29 on November 25, 2018 against the Arizona Cardinals), since broken by Drew Brees[219]
Highest completion percentage (83.33%) in a 400+ yard passing performance (September 29, 2013 against the Dallas Cowboys), since broken by Deshaun Watson[220]
Chargers franchise records
Career
Games played: 228[221]
Wins: 123[221]
Pass completions: 4,908[221]
Pass attempts: 7,591[221]
Completion percentage: 64.7[221]
Passing yards: 59,271[221]
Passing touchdowns: 397[221]
Game winning drives: 32[221]
Seasons with 4,000+ passing yards: 11
Seasons with 3,000+ passing yards: 14
400+ yard passing games: 8
Yards per attempt (Min. 500 attempts): 7.8[221]
Yards per game: 259.9[221]
Passer Rating: 95.1[221]
Times sacked: 445[221]
Consecutive games with at least one touchdown pass: 28
Consecutive regular season games with 300+ yards passing: 5 (October 4, 2015 to November 1, 2015)
Most consecutive starts by a quarterback: 224 (2006–2019)
Interception percentage: 2.6%[221]
Most sack yards lost: 2,714[221]
Most 4th quarter comebacks: 27[221]
Season
Regular season wins: 14 (2006)[222]
Pass completions: 437 (2015)[222]
Pass attempts: 661 (2015)[222]
Completion percentage (16 starts): 69.5 (2013)[222]
Passing touchdowns: 34 (2008)[222]
Game winning drives: 4 (2006, 2008, 2009, & 2013)[222]
Yards per attempt (Min. 500 attempts): 8.7 (2010)[222]
Passer rating (16 starts): 105.5 (2008 and 2013)[222]
Consecutive seasons with at least 25 touchdown passes: 9 (2008–2018)[223]
Consecutive seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards: 6 (2013–2018)[224]
Consecutive seasons with at least 3,000 passing yards: 14 (2006–2019)[225]
Interception percentage: 1.7 (2017)[222]
Times sacked: 49 (2012)[222]
Most 4th quarter comebacks: 4 (2006 & 2013)[222]
Game
Pass completions: 43 (October 18, 2015 against the Green Bay Packers)[136]
Pass attempts in a game: 65 (October 18, 2015 against the Green Bay Packers)[136]
Completion percentage (min. 20 attempts): 96.8% (28/29 on November 25, 2018 against the Arizona Cardinals)
Passing yards: 503 (October 18, 2015 against the Green Bay Packers)[136]
Postseason
Career passing yards: 2,165
Career completions: 164
Career completion percentage (min. 50 attempts): 60.3%
Career Quarterback rating (min. 50 attempts): 85.2
Career times sacked: 20
Passing touchdowns, game: 3 (January 8, 2008 against the Indianapolis Colts and January 11, 2009 against the Pittsburgh Steelers, tied with Dan Fouts)
Completion percentage, game (min 15 attempts): 75% (12 for 16, January 5, 2014 against the Cincinnati Bengals)
QB rating, game (min 25 attempts): 115.8 (January 12, 2014 against the Denver Broncos)
Games with a passing touchdown: 6 (tied with Dan Fouts)
Games with QB Rating of 100+: 4
Awards and honors
Pro Football Focus Most Valuable Player (2009)[226]
8× Pro Bowl selection (2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018)
NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2013)
NFL passing touchdowns co-leader (2008)
NFL passing yards leader (2010)
AFC passing yards leader (2015)
NFL passer rating leader (2008)
NFL completion percentage leader (2013)
NFL Alumni Quarterback of the Year (2010)
PFWA NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2013)
2010 NFL Alumni Players of the Year[93]
4× AFC Offensive Player of the Month (December – 2008, December – 2009, October – 2010, September – 2014)
NFL Comeback Player of the Year (AP, PFWA) (2013)
2014 Pro Bowl Alternate (Declined because of injury)
2015 Pro Bowl Alternate (Declined due to personal reasons)
Playoff appearances: 7
Playoff record: 5-7
Dan Marino Records:
Active records
Most seasons leading league, pass attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)
Most seasons leading league, completions: 6 (1984–1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)
Most seasons leading league, lowest sack percentage: 10 (1983–1989, 1994, 1997, 1999)
Most consecutive seasons leading league, lowest sack percentage: 7 (1983–1989)
Lowest sack percentage, season: 1.0% (1988)[57]
Lowest sack percentage, career: 3.1%[58]
200 touchdown passes in fewest games to start career: 89 (September 17, 1989, at New England)
Monday Night Football, most passing yards: 9,654[59]
Monday Night Football, most completions: 798
Monday Night Football, most attempts: 1,303
Monday Night Football, most touchdown passes: 74
Monday Night Football, most wins as a starter: 20
Former records
Most yards passing, season: 5,084, in 1984 (surpassed by Drew Brees in 2011 with 5,476; as of 2019 season, now tenth all-time)
Most fourth-quarter comeback wins, career (playoffs included): 36 (surpassed by Peyton Manning, 38, in 2012)
Lowest percentage, passes intercepted, rookie season: 2.03 in 1983 (296–6) (surpassed by Charlie Batch, Detroit, 1.98 in 1998 (303–6))
Most consecutive seasons, 3,000 or more yards passing: 9 (1984–1992) (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2009 with 18) (1992–2009)
Most games, 300 or more yards passing, season: 9 in 1984 (surpassed by Drew Brees with 13 in 2011)
Most games, 300 or more yards passing, career: 63 (surpassed by Peyton Manning with 72 in 2012)
Most games, 400 or more yards passing, playoffs: 2 (surpassed by Drew Brees with 3 in 2012 playoffs)
Most touchdown passes, season: 48 in 1984 (surpassed by Peyton Manning (49) in 2004 and by Tom Brady (50) in 2007 and by Peyton Manning (55) in 2013.
Most consecutive games, four or more touchdown passes: 4 in 1984 (surpassed by Peyton Manning in 2004)
Most consecutive games, two or more touchdown passes: 12 (surpassed by Peyton Manning in 2004, Tom Brady in 2011, and Aaron Rodgers in 2011)
Most consecutive games with a touchdown pass, playoffs: 13 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2004 and Tom Brady in 2007)
Highest passer rating, rookie season: 96.0 (surpassed by Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 and by Russell Wilson and Robert Griffin III in 2012)
Most seasons, 3,000 or more yards passing: 13 (1984–1992, 1994–1995, 1997–1998) (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2005)
Most completions, career: 4,967 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2006 and Peyton Manning in 2012)
Most attempts, career: 8,358 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007)
40,000 career passing yards in fewest games to start career: 153 (surpassed by Drew Brees with 152 games in 2011)[60]
Most yards passing, career: 61,361 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007, Peyton Manning in 2012, Drew Brees and Tom Brady in 2016)
Most touchdown passes, career: 420 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007, Peyton Manning in 2012, Drew Brees and Tom Brady in 2015)
Most consecutive home games with a touchdown pass: 39 (1983–1988; surpassed by Tom Brady in 2013)[61]
Most wins against one team: 24 against the Indianapolis Colts (surpassed by Brett Favre against the Detroit Lions in 2007)
Most games, three or more touchdown passes, career: 62 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007 and Peyton Manning in 2010)
Most wins in different stadiums: 31 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2008)[62]
50,000 career passing yards in fewest games to start career: 193 (surpassed by Peyton Manning in 2009)
Highest career TD-INT differential: +168 (surpassed by Peyton Manning in 2009)
Most games, four or more touchdown passes, career: 21 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2009 and Peyton Manning in 2010)
Most regular-season wins, quarterback/head coach: 116 with Don Shula (surpassed by Tom Brady and Bill Belichick in 2011)
Most straight games, at least 400 yards passing: 2 (surpassed by Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2018)
Most games, four or more touchdown passes, season: 6 (1984); tied by Peyton Manning in 2004. Surpassed by Patrick Mahomes in 2018 (8)
Most seasons, 40 or more touchdown passes: 2 (1984, 1986); (surpassed by Aaron Rodgers in 2020)[63]
NFL records tied
Most games, 400 or more yards passing, season: 4 in 1984; tied by Peyton Manning in 2013[64] and Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2018
Most seasons leading league, yards gained: 5 (1984–1986, 1988, 1992); tied with Sonny Jurgensen (Philadelphia, 1961–1962; Washington, 1966–1967, 1969)
Most consecutive seasons leading league, completions: 3 (1984–1986); tied with George Blanda (Houston, 1963–1965)
300 TD passes in fewest games to start career: 157 (9/4/1994 vs. New England); tied by Peyton Manning in 2007
30,000 career passing yards in fewest games to start career: 114 (November 25, 1990, at Cleveland); tied by Kurt Warner, October 18, 2009
Other notable accomplishments
5th most consecutive games of throwing at least one touchdown pass: 30[65]
Most games with 300+ passing yards and three touchdowns in first ten seasons (26 games)[66]
Notable stats
Named NFL Most Valuable Player (1984)
Started 240 of 242 career games
Compiled a 147−93 regular-season record as a starter (147 wins rank fifth-most all-time)
First quarterback in NFL history to have six 4,000-yard seasons (1984–1986, 1988, 1992, 1994)
First quarterback in NFL history to pass for 5,000 yards or more in a single season (5,084 in 1984)
Holds Dolphins team record for most seasons played (17)
Won the AFC Offensive Player of the Week honor 18 times in the regular season (20 times overall, including playoffs)
Playoff Appearances: 10
Playoff Record: 8-10
A thing I noticed, Stafford was lacking in the awards and honors department. Actually, reviewing Philips's career like this, I'm pretty certain he should be a lock for HoF if not a good mention. The only thing he lacks is a ring. Also, all sourced through Wikipedia, so take it what its worth. Dan Marino had 1 MVP season only.
*Edit* - Believe it or not, Stafford has the highest playoff rating of the three.
Stafford: 99.0
Rivers: 85.3
Marino: 77.1
That was not just because of being with the Rams this year either. The following years.
If Marino played today, I fully believe he'd average 6,000 yards and 55 TDs. What he was able to do in that era was batcrap. And his talent was unique. I wouldn't argue if you called him the most arm-talented quarterback in NFL history. And he did at least reach a Superbowl and multiple conference championship games.
Rivers? Look. Staying healthy and productive as long as he did is no small accomplishment. But 15 years, 1 AFCCG appearance. I believe he'll get in. But he deserves a polite golf-clap when he does. If the HOF was the NCAA Tournament, he's a 16 seed to me.
Stafford, like I said. He put up some numbers with an awful Lions franchise, and won a ring as soon as he left. But right now, he doesn't measure up no matter what your criteria. The stats aren't mind-blowing. 1 ring ties him with Dilfer and Flacco and Brad Johnson and a bunch of others. He hasn't made a huge historical mark on the game. He's probably got 3-5 good years left. If he wins another ring, gets in the MVP discussion, collects another 20,000 yards and 100 TDs, then it's probably different.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:25 am
It's incredible how much Moss was able to do for Culpepper. More incredible still when the fins went with him over Drew Brees.
Saban wanted Brees, but he didn't pass the physical, so they went with Culpepper.
He still hates Dan Kannell for that according to Danny Kannell.
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bucsfan83 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:30 pm
I think Rivers is like Marino in the fact that he never won anything but should at the very least be put in the discussion. I'd say Stafford too, but how many playoff games did he actually appear in? With his stats and 1 ring, he's definitely in the discussion now whether it's merit or not. Didn't Stafford always manage to stink it up when he was actually needed? Also looking to see how many playoff games Rivers appeared in. Haven't found it. He may very well be like Stafford too then. I never really paid to much attention to him except the fact that I thought he was a pretty good QB. Wasn't in our conference so I didn't care.
Edit - (Obviously Marino is a HoF)
With Rivers, he was on a good SD team with LT, Vincent Jackson, and Antonio Gates. He had a lot of success early. LT retired, they weren't running it well. He had 1 losing season before the end was near. Why would he switch teams before that?
As for Stafford, when he received his first extension in 2013, he had Reggie Bush Nate Burleson, and Megatron on the team. No reason for his to want to move on. In 2017, he shouldn't have re-negotiated an extension again. He should have tried free Agency in 2018.
Teams needing QBs going into 2018 draft:
Cleveland Browns
Denver Broncos
New York Jets
Arizona Cardinals (Carson Palmer retired)
New York Giants
Minnesota Vikings
Buffalo Bills
I certainly think that he would have loved going to a few of those spots.
This is one of those moments when stats almost fail us, but Rivers was a very good quarterback. Funky motion, but a good quarterback. Plus arm, both in terms of accuracy and strength. Stood tall in the pocket. Didn't crumble against the rush. Played with an edge. He's like if "B+" was a quarterback. And he was one of the healthiest players ever to play the game. That's not nothing.
Dan Marino was a cheat code. He could wrist a ball 60 yards and it would be away before even a great rush could get near him. His 1984 season - 5000 yards and 48 TDs - was the great season any quarterback has ever had in the NFL. You pups don't realize how different the game was then, but let me put it like this - Dave Krieg was 2nd in the league with 32 TDs. Neil Lomax had 4600 yards, but only 1 other guy passed 4000. It was insane.
I get Marino and Rivers are kind of linked in that "best not to win a ring" discussion, but Rivers is a bug on Marino's windshield in terms of greatness.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
kaimaru wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:54 pm
2013 Peyton Manning with 5477 yards and 55 TDs was worse? I mean you only posted those two stats, so I am assuming that is what you are going off.
You're comparing the Goodell video game Era to the "nothing is PI, defensive holding doesn't exist, you can hit the QB as hard as you want, and most QBs throw 25 or fewer times a game" Era. What Marino did in 84 would be like 6500-65 now.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
kaimaru wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:54 pm
2013 Peyton Manning with 5477 yards and 55 TDs was worse? I mean you only posted those two stats, so I am assuming that is what you are going off.
You're comparing the Goodell video game Era to the "nothing is PI, defensive holding doesn't exist, you can hit the QB as hard as you want, and most QBs throw 25 or fewer times a game" Era. What Marino did in 84 would be like 6500-65 now.
Marino threw about 400 more yards and 16 TDs over the next best in each category.
Manning threw for 300 more yards and 16 TDs than the next best in each category.
In Brady's best year he threw for 400 more yards and 14 TDs than the second place finisher.
Each of the 3 best years were equally as impressive vs the field.
Throwing out hypotheticals that Marino would throw for 6500-65 now is like when people say Babe Ruth would have hit 100 home runs in a season in modern times.
While the rules were different, the skills of players are also better. There's absolutely an inflation in passing stats, especially attempts (about 100 more attempts per season), but not so much to believe that Marino would have really set the record that high.
We also get weird years like 2019 where no one threw for 40 TDs in the league.
You're comparing the Goodell video game Era to the "nothing is PI, defensive holding doesn't exist, you can hit the QB as hard as you want, and most QBs throw 25 or fewer times a game" Era. What Marino did in 84 would be like 6500-65 now.
Marino threw about 400 more yards and 16 TDs over the next best in each category.
Manning threw for 300 more yards and 16 TDs than the next best in each category.
In Brady's best year he threw for 400 more yards and 14 TDs than the second place finisher.
Each of the 3 best years were equally as impressive vs the field.
Throwing out hypotheticals that Marino would throw for 6500-65 now is like when people say Babe Ruth would have hit 100 home runs in a season in modern times.
While the rules were different, the skills of players are also better. There's absolutely an inflation in passing stats, especially attempts (about 100 more attempts per season), but not so much to believe that Marino would have really set the record that high.
We also get weird years like 2019 where no one threw for 40 TDs in the league.
Good point. For the sake of argument, you might could say that if the NFL rules were the same when Marino was playing as they are today, Marino would have gone 6500-65, that would make more sense since he'd still be playing against the same players. Still pure speculation, though.
You're comparing the Goodell video game Era to the "nothing is PI, defensive holding doesn't exist, you can hit the QB as hard as you want, and most QBs throw 25 or fewer times a game" Era. What Marino did in 84 would be like 6500-65 now.
Marino threw about 400 more yards and 16 TDs over the next best in each category.
Manning threw for 300 more yards and 16 TDs than the next best in each category.
In Brady's best year he threw for 400 more yards and 14 TDs than the second place finisher.
Each of the 3 best years were equally as impressive vs the field.
Throwing out hypotheticals that Marino would throw for 6500-65 now is like when people say Babe Ruth would have hit 100 home runs in a season in modern times.
While the rules were different, the skills of players are also better. There's absolutely an inflation in passing stats, especially attempts (about 100 more attempts per season), but not so much to believe that Marino would have really set the record that high.
We also get weird years like 2019 where no one threw for 40 TDs in the league.
You want to accuse me of hyperbole there? I'll accept that. But I stand by my point: What Marino did, in THAT NFL, was the most impressive statistical season any QB has ever had.
Again, with SO MANY factors working in Peyton's favor - the rules, the sophistication of the offense, the talent - he only threw for only 383 more yards and 7 more TDs than Marino did. You put them both in the Goodell NFL, Marino closes that gap easily.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
