Just because you accomplish the first, or are able to accomplish the first because your division is a cesspool, does not equate with the capacity to accomplish the actual goal.
My saying "This team is done" does not mean "This team has been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, ergo, we literally cannot win a Lombardi."
My saying "This team is done" means "This a fundamentally broken team without the capacity to compete with actual teams that could reasonably end up winning the Lombardi."
Or to put it more simply, this team sucks and there isn't an adult in the building who can fix it this season.
And I'm sure that logic applies to the other 5 teams who will lose on wild card weekend, right? After all, they too will be 1 and done....Or are the Bucs the ONLY team that we can say is done in October but will win their division?
I don't know who the other wild card teams will be. There will probably be a couple who are actual Superbowl contenders if history is a guide.
I know the Bucs are trash and simply coexisting with those actual contenders on the same weekend will not change that. Skee-Lo and Run DMC are both found in the hip hop section of the record store, by virtue of the particulars of the exercise. This does not make them both contenders for the crown (royale.)
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
And I'm sure that logic applies to the other 5 teams who will lose on wild card weekend, right? After all, they too will be 1 and done....Or are the Bucs the ONLY team that we can say is done in October but will win their division?
I don't know who the other wild card teams will be. There will probably be a couple who are actual Superbowl contenders if history is a guide.
I know the Bucs are trash and simply coexisting with those actual contenders on the same weekend will not change that. Skee-Lo and Run DMC are both found in the hip hop section of the record store, by virtue of the particulars of the exercise. This does not make them both contenders for the crown (royale.)
So the Bucs will be the only guaranteed bounce because they are "done", even though we KNOW 5 other teams will lose, those teams are contenders though because....well you dont know why but they just are. Got it. I love the logic you're displacing here.
Get in the tournament and see what happens as always for every team since the dawn of professional football.
But you proclaimed that THIS team was done....In October. Now we'll win our division and get a home game? Doesn't sound like a team that's done. Done is Houston. Done is Detroit. Not a team that's not only leading their division currently, but a team that will also win their division and get a home game.
That is only a function of our division. If the city of Tampa was located anywhere else, we'd be in third or 4th place. We would be behind the God Damned Jets FFS.
Maybe, just maybe, we can pull a Seahawks, get in with a losing record because our division sucks and gobsmack someone the way they did the Saints. However, if you are suggesting we are going to beat the the rest of the NFC, then beat the Bill or Chiefs in the Super Bowl, you are smoking better shit than Snoop or Willie Nelson.
What I'm suggesting is that it's idiotic to say a team who's leading their division is done, but that teams who might not even make the playoffs or the other 5 wild card teams that will lose wild card weekend are contenders. The logic is non existent. But I get that people are emotional and incapable of making rational reactions.
I'm arguing from the point of it's October. We have 10 games left and currently lead this division. If you know our ultimate fate today, please inbox me the winning lotto numbers while you're at it.
I'm arguing from the point of you sound absolutely stupid to say THIS is the only 3-4 team that is done, both other teams with same or worse records are contenders. No one has that much foresight. So emotionally driven reactions benefit no one.
Look, changes do need to be made on offense. This, however is still a top 5 defense. A very injured top 5 defense, but a top one nonetheless. Other teams will also suffer injuries. I'm not going to pretend to know which ones. I'm also not going to pretend our record is worse than it is. We're 3-4. We lead the division. The same people who were saying "relax, chill, our schedule gets easier" are the same ones who jumped ship after 1 game. Give me a break.
You have to realize how absolutely stupid it sounds to say that of the 14 teams that make the playoffs, if the Bucs are among them only 13 have a real shot to win.
Yea it really shows in their record....Imagine Brady running naked bootlegs and misdirection plays at 45. Swear you can't make this stuff up
To say that Shanahan is a better playcaller than Leftwich is like saying Mozart is better than Brittany Spears. I'll go out on a limb and venture that Shanahan could draw up a play or two that made the best use of the GOAT, and could probably re-design his running game to not rely on the quarterback running.
I feel bad for the Rookies. When your "mentor" goes around in a lack-luster mode and promotes said behavior as "OK" then you get the idea that you can do the same. Next year, or the one after, when these "leaders" are gone, you find you are the leaders and you show your replacements how to shuffle off the work ethic that got you into the league to begin with.
We've been down that road, too many times. They brought in BA to try to break the latest version of this losing culture, and eventually brought in Tom-Terrific to finish the job. Things looked up and we managed to show the world that good things can happen for the home team. But now it appears the devil in the details is roamin free through the whole group. Unless there is somebody or sombodies that stamp WANT IT on their foreheads and plays like it, it's going to be a long cold winter for years to come. I can recall years ago bitching about these walking paychecks just collecting ridiculous sums of money and not bothering to show up. I really would rather not return to that era.
Yea it really shows in their record....Imagine Brady running naked bootlegs and misdirection plays at 45. Swear you can't make this stuff up
To say that Shanahan is a better playcaller than Leftwich is like saying Mozart is better than Brittany Spears. I'll go out on a limb and venture that Shanahan could draw up a play or two that made the best use of the GOAT, and could probably re-design his running game to not rely on the quarterback running.
Kyle Shanahan is rather overrated as an OC/play caller. Niners fans actually have wanted him to give up duties for a few years now. Mike McDaniel had way more input than people realized.
Also if you look closely at the Niners offense, it's not very efficient. They leave a lot of meat on the bone and settle for a lot of FGs, like yesterday or go through long periods where they stall. And honestly it wouldn't benefit the Niners to redesign their run game because their Olinemen do their best getting in space.
I'm shocked Bucs fans are giving Shanahan so much credit, but then again as I've stated people are more emotional than rational today.
Unfortunately we the short week I don't see any changes occurring. But after we lose to the Ravens with the mini bye afterwards, I could see some major shakeups occur.
Dropping to 3-5 all but kills the season. I don't even think we'll be in first place anymore after that and I can't say with any confidence that we'll win anymore of our divisional games.
I suppose a miracle could happen but I'm not going to count on it
The SB window appears to have slammed shut and while that's very sad and unfortunate, what will make that worse is OBP putting their heads in the sand and pretending otherwise.
If(when) we lose to the Ravens, we absolutely need to be selling off pieces to contenders and fully embrace the current state of the franchise, which is a SB team that imploded into a rebuilding roster.
Failure to do so well only result in the rebuild being more painful and much less efficient.
Evans
Dean
SMB
Barrett
Smith
Brady
David
These are all guys that should be heavily shipped around.
Brady can continue playing if he wants but he should be benched or traded away as well, assuming anyone would trade him to begin with.
It was a fun two years. We got another Lombardi, but that time is over now. Accidentally getting a 7th seed birth in the playoffs while holding onto players that could net craft capital only to get blown out and embarrassed accomplishes nothing.
Edit: To clarify though, when we lose to the Ravens, I actually don't expect any changes whatsoever. I doubt we make a single personnel change.
Last edited by BucsNBills on Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Is this the low point? It feels like it has to be close.
Bucs aside, it's extremely rare for any NFL team to lose in b2b weeks as a double digit favorite in each game.
I'm not sure there is any NFL team the Bucs could beat right now. Steelers and Panthers were pretty much the bottom of the barrell in terms of bad NFL teams and we just got dominated by the Panthers.
Injuries are no excuse, those two teams were undermanned also.
I don't know where this Bucs team goes from here, but it's looking pretty bleak right now.
The silver lining is there is talent on the roster and most of these guys (including the coaches) have experienced winning together. By some stroke of luck the Bucs are playing arguably the worst division in the NFL this year so we're miraculously still tied for 1st place in the division.
I'm normally pretty optimistic, but it's looking pretty bad out there and those were supposed to be two of the easier games of the season.
Bucs have lost 4 of the last 5 games and have the Ravens, Rams, and Seahawks coming up these next 3 weeks.
3-4 is not a good record, but 3-7 is looking like a reality.
The Bucs offense has only over 20pts once this season (in 7 games) and that was in a lopsided loss to the Chiefs where we fell behind big early and were in pass only mode.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:34 am
Bucs have lost 4 of the last 5 games and have the Ravens, Rams, and Seahawks coming up these next 3 weeks.
3-4 is not a good record, but 3-7 is looking like a reality.
The Bucs offense has only over 20pts once this season (in 7 games) and that was in a lopsided loss to the Chiefs where we fell behind big early and were in pass only mode.
You told us 5-2 was our reality so this will be taken with a grain of salt. You never know until you play the games. The Ravens have been up and down this year. The Rams have looked worse than we have honestly. And do you really trust those Seahawks? Plus that game is in Europe and the travel impacts teams differently. So no, the "reality" is that you have no clue what our record will be after these 3 games.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:34 am
Bucs have lost 4 of the last 5 games and have the Ravens, Rams, and Seahawks coming up these next 3 weeks.
3-4 is not a good record, but 3-7 is looking like a reality.
The Bucs offense has only over 20pts once this season (in 7 games) and that was in a lopsided loss to the Chiefs where we fell behind big early and were in pass only mode.
You told us 5-2 was our reality so this will be taken with a grain of salt. You never know until you play the games. The Ravens have been up and down this year. The Rams have looked worse than we have honestly. And do you really trust those Seahawks? Plus that game is in Europe and the travel impacts teams differently. So no, the "reality" is that you have no clue what our record will be after these 3 games.
I believe Geno Smith is a better QB than PJ Walker, I believe that Kenneth Walker is a better RB than Chuba Hubbard, I believe that Lockett and Goodwin are a better WR duo than DJ Moore and ?.
We just got rocked by a really, really bad team. We've all watched a little bit of football in our lives, and as Bucs fans we've seen our fair share of collapses. You know what the Panthers game felt like? Week 17 2008 when a damn poor Raiders team with Michael Bush shit all over us as our 4th consecutive loss to end the season.
Must be why I'm itching to hire Raheem Morris. It all just feels so familiar.
Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:58 am
Anyone who thinks we "are done" in October need to go back and rewatch some past winners seasons. Ton of season left. But we do need to get right.
For myself, I don't think we're done but I do think our chances at making a playoff run are dwindling rapidly. The coaching staff in particular seems out of it's depth and I feel like I've watched this movie several times.
Last edited by The Outsider on Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Such a scapegoat attempt trying to put this on the coaching staff. This is literally the same staff minus 1 guy. And that 1 guy is still in the building.
This roster is worse than people will admit. They are playing worse than people will admit.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:26 am
Such a scapegoat attempt trying to put this on the coaching staff. This is literally the same staff minus 1 guy. And that 1 guy is still in the building.
This roster is worse than people will admit. They are playing worse than people will admit.
The coaching staff is having a direct impact on the level of play of even our best players, particularly on offense. I've seen teams quit on coaches a million times across several different sports and yesterday that offense looked like it gave up on Leftwich's bullshit.
And before you go on about professionals and motivation and whatever, Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest scorer in the history of the sport of soccer, literally left in the middle of a game because he's unhappy with the organization and particularly the manager.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:26 am
Such a scapegoat attempt trying to put this on the coaching staff. This is literally the same staff minus 1 guy. And that 1 guy is still in the building.
This roster is worse than people will admit. They are playing worse than people will admit.
The coaching staff is having a direct impact on the level of play of even our best players, particularly on offense. I've seen teams quit on coaches a million times across several different sports and yesterday that offense looked like it gave up on Leftwich's bullshit.
And before you go on about professionals and motivation and whatever, Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest scorer in the history of the sport of soccer, literally left in the middle of a game because he's unhappy with the organization and particularly the manager.
Players quitting is never on the coaches. It's on the quitters and they should be jettisoned ASAP. Bet they won't "quit" cashing those checks.
And it's laughable if you believe any football player would have the guts to quit publicly in that manner.
The coaching staff is having a direct impact on the level of play of even our best players, particularly on offense. I've seen teams quit on coaches a million times across several different sports and yesterday that offense looked like it gave up on Leftwich's bullshit.
And before you go on about professionals and motivation and whatever, Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest scorer in the history of the sport of soccer, literally left in the middle of a game because he's unhappy with the organization and particularly the manager.
Players quitting is never on the coaches. It's on the quitters and they should be jettisoned ASAP. Bet they won't "quit" cashing those checks.
And it's laughable if you believe any football player would have the guts to quit publicly in that manner.
That right there folks is the definition of stupid. You've never had a really shitty boss? Or had to work with a bunch of idiots who were incompetent at their jobs?
Football players, like most human beings, have what is referred to as morale. Morale (noun): the confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline of a person or group at a particular time.
If your bosses are idiots and you know it, morale suffers. If your bosses are just shitty leaders in general, morale suffers. When morale gets low enough you get to the point where people stop trying hard and mail it in. Giving minimum effort, just showing up to put in the bare minimum and cash a check.
I've seen it in every industry I've been in. I don't see why football should or would be any different.
Players quitting is never on the coaches. It's on the quitters and they should be jettisoned ASAP. Bet they won't "quit" cashing those checks.
And it's laughable if you believe any football player would have the guts to quit publicly in that manner.
That right there folks is the definition of stupid. You've never had a really shitty boss? Or had to work with a bunch of idiots who were incompetent at their jobs?
Football players, like most human beings, have what is referred to as morale. Morale (noun): the confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline of a person or group at a particular time.
If your bosses are idiots and you know it, morale suffers. If your bosses are just shitty leaders in general, morale suffers. When morale gets low enough you get to the point where people stop trying hard and mail it in. Giving minimum effort, just showing up to put in the bare minimum and cash a check.
I've seen it in every industry I've been in. I don't see why football should or would be any different.
Players quitting is never on the coaches. It's on the quitters and they should be jettisoned ASAP. Bet they won't "quit" cashing those checks.
And it's laughable if you believe any football player would have the guts to quit publicly in that manner.
That right there folks is the definition of stupid. You've never had a really shitty boss? Or had to work with a bunch of idiots who were incompetent at their jobs?
Football players, like most human beings, have what is referred to as morale. Morale (noun): the confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline of a person or group at a particular time.
If your bosses are idiots and you know it, morale suffers. If your bosses are just shitty leaders in general, morale suffers. When morale gets low enough you get to the point where people stop trying hard and mail it in. Giving minimum effort, just showing up to put in the bare minimum and cash a check.
I've seen it in every industry I've been in. I don't see why football should or would be any different.
Yea I have. And I moved on. Not the boss, I moved. If players wanna quit, pull a Renaldo and quit. It really is that simple. You don't wanna be here, don't be here.
What you're suggesting doesn't even fit the scenario you mentioned with Renaldo. Players quit on the team so they should stay around? Make it make sense.
MRM wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:41 am
As much as I like Bowles as a DC, he's not head coaching material. They play and look flat. Seems like his Jets teams were like that too.
Basically where I'm at. There are lots of issues, but we miss Arians. Bowles is the classic great coordinator who has zero coaching chops. Ever since the offseason Bucs media video, in the very first team meeting he is taking like 5 minutes to describe this pretty lame 'motivational' quote from a WNBA player. Laser pointing to each word, it was just so damn awkward. I've had a bad feeling ever since, and no interview or video I have seen has convinced me otherwise. He has no 'head coach' traits. I really miss Arians grabbing dudes facemasks or just yelling. He would never sit there and watch the last two hours of football happen the way they did. Would be absolutely skewering the team in post game interviews. I really think we miss Jensen's on field attitude in a similar way. His play is sorely missed, everything he did in-between the snaps maybe even moreso.
Last edited by Backside on Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
That right there folks is the definition of stupid. You've never had a really shitty boss? Or had to work with a bunch of idiots who were incompetent at their jobs?
Football players, like most human beings, have what is referred to as morale. Morale (noun): the confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline of a person or group at a particular time.
If your bosses are idiots and you know it, morale suffers. If your bosses are just shitty leaders in general, morale suffers. When morale gets low enough you get to the point where people stop trying hard and mail it in. Giving minimum effort, just showing up to put in the bare minimum and cash a check.
I've seen it in every industry I've been in. I don't see why football should or would be any different.
Yea I have. And I moved on. Not the boss, I moved. If players wanna quit, pull a Renaldo and quit. It really is that simple. You don't wanna be here, don't be here.
What you're suggesting doesn't even fit the scenario you mentioned with Renaldo. Players quit on the team so they should stay around? Make it make sense.
I used Ronaldo (e and o are nowhere close to each other on the qwerty keyboard) as an example because in prior posts you made some pretty absurd statements regarding athletes not quitting because of competitive nature, etc. So I provided you with an example of possibly the most competitive spirited, chip-on-his-shoulder-having athlete in the world quitting on his team this season.
As for players just leaving the team, well see in the real world you can leave a job and immediately go work if hired somewhere else, even in the same industry.
In the NFL, athletics in general really, and honestly most contract positions that isn't typically the case. They can't just walk off the team and go get signed next week. They're under contract, a contract which gives the Buccaneers as an organization the rights to them as a player in the NFL for the duration of said contract. So if they're under contract and they're showing up to what they need to show up to and putting in the minimum effort why shouldn't they collect their checks? They literally can't go elsewhere.
Yea I have. And I moved on. Not the boss, I moved. If players wanna quit, pull a Renaldo and quit. It really is that simple. You don't wanna be here, don't be here.
What you're suggesting doesn't even fit the scenario you mentioned with Renaldo. Players quit on the team so they should stay around? Make it make sense.
I used Ronaldo (e and o are nowhere close to each other on the qwerty keyboard) as an example because in prior posts you made some pretty absurd statements regarding athletes not quitting because of competitive nature, etc. So I provided you with an example of possibly the most competitive spirited, chip-on-his-shoulder-having athlete in the world quitting on his team this season.
As for players just leaving the team, well see in the real world you can leave a job and immediately go work if hired somewhere else, even in the same industry.
In the NFL, athletics in general really, and honestly most contract positions that isn't typically the case. They can't just walk off the team and go get signed next week. They're under contract, a contract which gives the Buccaneers as an organization the rights to them as a player in the NFL for the duration of said contract. So if they're under contract and they're showing up to what they need to show up to and putting in the minimum effort why shouldn't they collect their checks? They literally can't go elsewhere.
Why would they go out there and prove themselves to be a detriment to the team instead of walking away? If you quit, then quit. Don't take everyone else down with you.
You're backing off your Ronaldo example because it no longer fits, so I have another one for you. Vontae Davis. Quit at halftime because he didn't like the direction. Antonio Brown, we all know what happened there. Don't quit in secret like a coward and take the field. The quitters need to be called out. You tell me who they are.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:34 am
Bucs have lost 4 of the last 5 games and have the Ravens, Rams, and Seahawks coming up these next 3 weeks.
3-4 is not a good record, but 3-7 is looking like a reality.
The Bucs offense has only over 20pts once this season (in 7 games) and that was in a lopsided loss to the Chiefs where we fell behind big early and were in pass only mode.
You told us 5-2 was our reality so this will be taken with a grain of salt. You never know until you play the games. The Ravens have been up and down this year. The Rams have looked worse than we have honestly. And do you really trust those Seahawks? Plus that game is in Europe and the travel impacts teams differently. So no, the "reality" is that you have no clue what our record will be after these 3 games.
Your reading comprehension needs alot of work, kiddo.
What I said after the Packers loss when we were 2-2 is that with the next 3 opponents we SHOULD be 5-2. Given that we've lost b2b games where we were double digit favorites it wasn't exactly a stretch and no one predicted the Bucs would lose to both the Steelers and Panthers.
Given the performance of our offense through 7 games this season and now the recent deterioration of our defense, the potential for 3-7 is very real. But your 'Any given Sunday' point about the unpredictability of the NFL is noted and truly insightful.
Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:58 am
Anyone who thinks we "are done" in October need to go back and rewatch some past winners seasons. Ton of season left. But we do need to get right.
Luckily we play in a terrible division, so despite losing 4 of 5 and looking pretty inept offensively through 7 games we're still likley the favorite to win the division which gets us a top 4 seed.
The NFC West leader (Seahawks) is only 4-3, so that division is mess also.
Even the North is struggling where the Packers share our 3-4 record and the Kirk Cousins led VIkes will eventually come back to earth.
As terrible as this season has gone through 7 games, we are very much alive for the division title and a #2 or #3 seed in the NFC playoffs -OR- maybe a top 5 pick if we don't get our shit together b/c we just got dominated by one of the worst teams in the league.
