Rapid Reactions: Buccaneers loss to the Panthers

[IronDog]

There seems to be one serious qualifier you guys thinking we'll turn this around, and God knows I hope they do. However, no one seems to be focusing on the "want to" aspect. I don't care who is behind center or carrying the rock or even catching ghe damn thing. If these guys don't want it, it ain't happening. If you didn't see that character quality was missing today, and even last week, you aren't paying attention.

[13F11B]

Not that it really matters, but the Bowles press conference is uncomfortable. Lol.

I guess Leftwich also told a reporter he does not believe in EPA and believes the oline is protecting well in the passing game because of the number of sacks allowed

Yeah, he came across as a guy that knows he is about to get run out of town and will not get another opportunity as a head coach.

[Bucsfan83]

Not that it really matters, but the Bowles press conference is uncomfortable. Lol.

I guess Leftwich also told a reporter he does not believe in EPA and believes the oline is protecting well in the passing game because of the number of sacks allowed

Yeah, he came across as a guy that knows he is about to get run out of town and will not get another opportunity as a head coach.

Easily one of the more talented teams (granted Oline is suspect) and you can't figure out how to pass on first and second downs. Lose to two one win teams, can't imagine why he thinks that way.

[Nobody]

This is not an emotional reaction.

I think this team is toast. Yes, Tom Brady could magically Tom Brady a way out of this, but I just don’t see it. At this point, the absolute ceiling for this team feels like a bottom seed, one and done playoff. No leadership on either side of the ball, belief appears shattered, business decisions and lack of focus and loafs and IDGAF snaps (a team that cares is not this undisciplined and plays consistently snap to snap), unheard of (in the last 2 years) clutching down on both sides if the ball week to week, awful personnel/ coaching/play-calling.

We just lost to a team that was one of the worst in the league…before coach, QB, star RB, skill position turnover. A team with absolutely “nothing to play for” (which should never be a thing) that looked like they had everything to play for compared to our rudderless, energy-less, disinterested team.

This team should think very carefully about selling. I don’t think they will, but think very carefully about it.

* If the 9ers will give us a 2nd or a 3rd for Brady, take it.

* Get whatever you can for short term rentals you can turn over for assets; DSmith, White, Mason, Dean, Edwards.

* Let Mike and LVD play for a contender in their final years so they don’t have to endure the hell to come.

* Start Trask, flail miserably to the finish line and wear the shame thats been earned.

* Clean house.

[King Bootz]

@Nobody I'm sorry but that is the dumbest effin post you've ever made. We have the same record as the Niners and actually lead our division. Yet somehow we're done and they should "give" us a 2nd or 3rd for Brady.

That was the epitome of an emotional reaction

[Snake]

Every bad team in the league now has the Bucs on their list. They’ll get up to spoil the Bucs season and make Brady’s potential last season a (more) miserable one.

Back to back losses despite 10 point favorites. Being favored like that will certainly change after this.

[Snake]

@Nobody I'm sorry but that is the dumbest effin post you've ever made. We have the same record as the Niners and actually lead our division. Yet somehow we're done and they should "give" us a 2nd or 3rd for Brady.

That was the epitome of an emotional reaction

The Niners are so much better than TB!

TB12 probably makes them NFC favorites.

[King Bootz]

@Nobody I'm sorry but that is the dumbest effin post you've ever made. We have the same record as the Niners and actually lead our division. Yet somehow we're done and they should "give" us a 2nd or 3rd for Brady.

That was the epitome of an emotional reaction

The Niners are so much better than TB!

TB12 probably makes them NFC favorites.

Yea it really shows in their record....Imagine Brady running naked bootlegs and misdirection plays at 45. Swear you can't make this stuff up

[Snake]

The Niners are so much better than TB!

TB12 probably makes them NFC favorites.

Yea it really shows in their record....Imagine Brady running naked bootlegs and misdirection plays at 45. Swear you can't make this stuff up

You know Shanahan. He would scheme to his players like he always does.

[King Bootz]

Yea it really shows in their record....Imagine Brady running naked bootlegs and misdirection plays at 45. Swear you can't make this stuff up

You know Shanahan. He would scheme to his players like he always does.

I know that offense.
There also has to be cohesiveness with the moving pieces. The Shanahan system you're thinking about works better with bigger receivers who can make plays down the field ala Atlanta 6+ years ago. Deebo, Ayuik & Kittle benefit from the misdirection and bootlegs because there is a level of mobility.

What is being suggested is for Shanahan to tear that offense up mid-season and start from scratch. The system is tailor-made for a Trey Lance type that's a threat to run. It's never been a very efficient system with Jimmy but it works when they get short fields. But the system as is does not work with a statue. Nor does changing it mid-season make them favs.

[vivalaReagan]

I guess I’m not really following the course of action the team can take in the immediate future?

Arians is not gonna take the job back from his protégé.

The offense is the biggest problem with the team. You’re not gonna make the guy who runs the offense now in charge of everything. Any defensive coach is totally subordinate to Seal. You don’t know what you have there. PMI already said it, if you fire the head coach…that reflects pretty poorly on the GM Who hired him in the last year.

This is their bed. And they have to lie in it. The front office neglected to bolster the offensive line for years and years. They got away with it for a long time. Though you can argue that it cost us last season, as well. With Wells getting worked. We knew the injury bug was lurking with this older roster, and one that has been playing a lot the last couple years. The Super Bowl run was tremendously healthy…

Is there a locker room issue? It would not surprise me. The leader of the team is in a really bad place personally and professionally. He was outed as a traitor - to some degree - as he was texting with another organization while still under contract. He doesn’t actually want to be here. And a fish rots from the head on down.

You can’t tell me that shit doesn’t fester when everyone in that locker room knows he doesn’t want to be there. Add in the bullshit during training camp, skipping practices blah blah blah.

Old roster, inferior coaching, poor depth in crucial places, locker room dysfunction.

And yet, it would not surprise me if Tom Brady figured it out because it’s Tom fucking Brady.

good post, snake. i especially agree with two key points:

1) licht has been asleep at the wheel after signing brady and he’s pissed away draft picks that should have been used wisely on depth, particularly the OL with an immobile qb. licht has a penchant for getting too cute in the draft and it’s now biting us in the ass. marpet’s success created a draft day monster in licht.

2) brady got caught trying to finesse his way out of tampa to miami and i doubt that sat well with many veteran teammates. tb12 is also running roughshod over licht and the coaching staff, doing what he wants, when he wants. in doing so, brady has demonstrated to his teammates that he’s not engaged and would rather be elsewhere. for guys that bowles has admitted are living off a super bowl two years ago, brady’s “don’t give a fuck” attitude is the excuse they need to coast this season. it’s cultural rot in the locker room, which we’ve seen before in tampa but i never thought i’d see it during brady’s tenure.

all that said, i’m also somewhere between your first sentence and your last. i have no idea what the immediate course of action needs to be but i also wouldn’t be surprised if brady figures it out.

[Doctor]

Y'all are so overdramatic. This is football. That's it. It's one guy throwing the ball to another guy who catches it. It's not that complicated. And nothing before the playoff matters all that much. Seeding and all that sure, but overall, it's how you play in January.

Point is, I know these guys can play football. Do you know how I know? I've seen it. I've seen it with my own eyes these guys play very good football, so I know they can do it.

They aren't doing so right now. For whatever reason when the ball hits our future Hall of Fame WRs hands he didn't catch it. Repeatedly. I get Godwin being slow, I don't expect him at 100% this year. ACL are like that, we know. Our QB is not on the same page as the rest of our guys.

I don't know what is going on but I bet the cure isn't that crazy. No more vet days. More time together, more times running the gameplan. Then you get on the same page. Then you win. Winning cures everything. We know this, winning cures everything, we just need to start doing the things that get us there and quit with this resting on our laurels bs because we're out, we're out of fucking laurels.

[Snake]

We don’t agree on anything, so this post will not be a surprise @Doctor

You say “these guys” can play good football. Except, these are not the same guys from last year and definitely not the year before that. They don’t have Gronk. The three most important linemen - for Brady - are different. And much worse collectively. Expecting Jensen to show up is hopium and probably too little too late. The defense is good. When they’re healthy.

Every team is a house of cards. Certain cards can be removed for some teams that would not mean much for other teams. The cards that got pulled on TB12 are brutal and make him much less effective. Throw in some uncreative and uninformed scheming and coaching, and it’s bad bad bad.

The closer you get to the beginning of the year, the less the games matter in terms of judging the quality of the team. Beating the cowboys week one and beating a bad Saints team early doesn’t mean much, to me. you want to get better over time. The league makes adjustments, and you adjust back. The opposite is happening for Tampa. They are getting worse every week and seemingly have no answers especially on the offensive side.

[Al Bundy]

Evans confirmed they folded after he dropped that TD. That is not good.

[vivalaReagan]

This is not an emotional reaction.

I think this team is toast. Yes, Tom Brady could magically Tom Brady a way out of this, but I just don’t see it. At this point, the absolute ceiling for this team feels like a bottom seed, one and done playoff. No leadership on either side of the ball, belief appears shattered, business decisions and lack of focus and loafs and IDGAF snaps (a team that cares is not this undisciplined and plays consistently snap to snap), unheard of (in the last 2 years) clutching down on both sides if the ball week to week, awful personnel/ coaching/play-calling.

We just lost to a team that was one of the worst in the league…before coach, QB, star RB, skill position turnover. A team with absolutely “nothing to play for” (which should never be a thing) that looked like they had everything to play for compared to our rudderless, energy-less, disinterested team.

This team should think very carefully about selling. I don’t think they will, but think very carefully about it.

* If the 9ers will give us a 2nd or a 3rd for Brady, take it.

* Get whatever you can for short term rentals you can turn over for assets; DSmith, White, Mason, Dean, Edwards.

* Let Mike and LVD play for a contender in their final years so they don’t have to endure the hell to come.

* Start Trask, flail miserably to the finish line and wear the shame thats been earned.

* Clean house.

the only problem with your plan is our front office lacks the situational awareness, strategic thinking, and balls to make such a decision.

they got lucky when tb12 landed in their laps and it proved to be the move that covered a multitude of sins…for a season. now that the tb12 “magic” is gone, it’s time to finally pay the piper.

no, OBP will do what they’ve always done and ride this down to terminal value, followed by a decade of very bleak football. lather, rinse, repeat…it’s a buc’s life.

[Snake]

Evans confirmed they folded after he dropped that TD. That is not good.

I couldn’t believe it. Wow.

[Moozician]

@Nobody I'm sorry but that is the dumbest effin post you've ever made. We have the same record as the Niners and actually lead our division. Yet somehow we're done and they should "give" us a 2nd or 3rd for Brady.

That was the epitome of an emotional reaction

Niners gave most of their picks away anyways for CMC, didn't they?

[Rocker]

Evans confirmed they folded after he dropped that TD. That is not good.

Whole damn team has the yips.

[vivalaReagan]

Evans confirmed they folded after he dropped that TD. That is not good.

Whole damn team has the yips.

if by “yips” you mean they’re mentally soft, then yes, they have the yips.

[Doctor]

Evans confirmed they folded after he dropped that TD. That is not good.

Whole damn team has the yips.

Pretty much sums it up.

We need to get healthy in a lot of areas. Mostly on defense and Ryan Jensen. People want to harp like JL didn't put together an OL of Smith, Wirfs, Cappa, Stinnie, Marpet, Mason, and Jensen and the thing got blown all to hell. Jensen's return will be huge and allow us to slide Bobby out to guard. That will make a big difference. We have zero push inside.

[Nano]

I hate to say it, especially for everything that he did to us...but I wish Tom Brady never came back.

It's not his fault...it's not really a singular player's fault. It's everyone's fault. Bringing him back, we were supposed to push back the rebuild by one season. But really...this situation is so entirely fucked. This team is mentally broken, the coaching is terrible, and nobody is playing all that well. A team of business decisions. What was once looked at as the final chance to run it back is looking anything but.

And the worst part is...we haven't technically started the rebuild yet.

[Pirate Life]

Ronde weighs in:

[MJW]

I hate to say it, especially for everything that he did to us...but I wish Tom Brady never came back.

It's not his fault...it's not really a singular player's fault. It's everyone's fault. Bringing him back, we were supposed to push back the rebuild by one season. But really...this situation is so entirely fucked. This team is mentally broken, the coaching is terrible, and nobody is playing all that well. A team of business decisions. What was once looked at as the final chance to run it back is looking anything but.

And the worst part is...we haven't technically started the rebuild yet.

Tom Brady didn't come back. That's the problem. Well, that's part of the problem. The other part is that he's still trying to lead and nobody is buying it from a guy who goes to soirees instead of walkthroughs.

Bowles seems better at scheming cool blitzes than he does leading an organization.

The playcalling on offense has been uninspired. I realize the shitty interior blocking has removed some of the longer developing plays from the playbook. But the stuff we are calling seems extremely vanilla. Very little misdirection or route complexity. The A22 bears this out.

Almost our entire FA class has been hurt and TBH, while the rookie class is contributing, none of them (except Camarda) has been excelling.

I know this won't happen, and I understand why, but right now I'd feel better if the organization was looking to move some of these pieces. We don't owe Tom Brady anything at this point. I'd deal Devin White, depending on what we can get. He's not progressing and he's the platonic ideal of a guy an arrogant coach will believe he can "fix." I'd deal Donovan Smith, who may be cut after the season to save us $10 mil on the cap. Brandon Walton showed some real promise. And I know this one will be controversial, but I'd shop Shaq Barrett, heading to his age 30 season with the 4th highest cap number on the team (how much a trade would save us, I'm not sure.) I'd also shop Succop, who is going to be a cap casualty next year and is having an excellent season.

But, we won't do any of those things. We'll stand pat, win 8 or 9 games, win this shit division, and get dog-walked in the first round by a WC team that still cares.

[King Bootz]

But, we won't do any of those things. We'll stand pat, win 8 or 9 games, win this shit division, and get dog-walked in the first round by a WC team that still cares.

But I thought we were done.....

[MJW]

But, we won't do any of those things. We'll stand pat, win 8 or 9 games, win this shit division, and get dog-walked in the first round by a WC team that still cares.

But I thought we were done.....

What do you think the objective of the season is?

[King Bootz]

But I thought we were done.....

What do you think the objective of the season is?

Get in the tournament and see what happens as always for every team since the dawn of professional football.

But you proclaimed that THIS team was done....In October. Now we'll win our division and get a home game? Doesn't sound like a team that's done. Done is Houston. Done is Detroit. Not a team that's not only leading their division currently, but a team that will also win their division and get a home game.

[Nano]

We might not be leading the division for very long. If we lose to the Ravens on TNF, we'll fall to 2nd in the division. The falcons host the Panthers so technically whoever won that game would lead after the week.

[Terry Tate]

What do you think the objective of the season is?

Get in the tournament and see what happens as always for every team since the dawn of professional football.

But you proclaimed that THIS team was done....In October. Now we'll win our division and get a home game? Doesn't sound like a team that's done. Done is Houston. Done is Detroit. Not a team that's not only leading their division currently, but a team that will also win their division and get a home game.

That is only a function of our division. If the city of Tampa was located anywhere else, we'd be in third or 4th place. We would be behind the God Damned Jets FFS.

Maybe, just maybe, we can pull a Seahawks, get in with a losing record because our division sucks and gobsmack someone the way they did the Saints. However, if you are suggesting we are going to beat the the rest of the NFC, then beat the Bill or Chiefs in the Super Bowl, you are smoking better shit than Snoop or Willie Nelson.

[MJW]

What do you think the objective of the season is?

Get in the tournament and see what happens as always for every team since the dawn of professional football.

But you proclaimed that THIS team was done....In October. Now we'll win our division and get a home game? Doesn't sound like a team that's done. Done is Houston. Done is Detroit. Not a team that's not only leading their division currently, but a team that will also win their division and get a home game.

The goal is not to appear in the playoffs.

The goal is to win Lombardis.

Just because you accomplish the first, or are able to accomplish the first because your division is a cesspool, does not equate with the capacity to accomplish the actual goal.

My saying "This team is done" does not mean "This team has been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, ergo, we literally cannot win a Lombardi."

My saying "This team is done" means "This a fundamentally broken team without the capacity to compete with actual teams that could reasonably end up winning the Lombardi."

Or to put it more simply, this team sucks and there isn't an adult in the building who can fix it this season.

[McFan]

Bowles seems better at scheming cool blitzes than he does leading an organization.

The Jets found out that he's a more than decent man, a very reliable and better than average defensive coordinator, but he has zero motivational skills with his monotone delivery, and during the game he comes across as overwhelmed with many crucial game day decisions. Asking him to be DC and HC is most likely overwhelming.

[Patrick McIrish]

Evans confirmed they folded after he dropped that TD. That is not good.

I hope that's just Evans trying to be accountable.

If not that's PATHETIC!

A team that can quit after virtually the first play of the game??

A team "led" by Brady no less? Wow, just wow.

The locker room is cooked.

Teams that look for a reason to quit always find that "reason".

That comment from Evans is telling guys that never played football that it's not always about football......

[MJW]

Bowles seems better at scheming cool blitzes than he does leading an organization.

The Jets found out that he's a more than decent man, a very reliable and better than average defensive coordinator, but he has zero motivational skills with his monotone delivery, and during the game he comes across as overwhelmed with many crucial game day decisions. Asking him to be DC and HC is most likely overwhelming.

This could be one of those occasional reminders that the overlap between being a good coordinator and being a good head coach is not necessarily significant. You need communication skills for both. But otherwise, there's a hell of a lot of difference between being a project manager and being CEO of the company.

[King Bootz]

Get in the tournament and see what happens as always for every team since the dawn of professional football.

But you proclaimed that THIS team was done....In October. Now we'll win our division and get a home game? Doesn't sound like a team that's done. Done is Houston. Done is Detroit. Not a team that's not only leading their division currently, but a team that will also win their division and get a home game.

The goal is not to appear in the playoffs.

The goal is to win Lombardis.

Just because you accomplish the first, or are able to accomplish the first because your division is a cesspool, does not equate with the capacity to accomplish the actual goal.

My saying "This team is done" does not mean "This team has been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, ergo, we literally cannot win a Lombardi."

My saying "This team is done" means "This a fundamentally broken team without the capacity to compete with actual teams that could reasonably end up winning the Lombardi."

Or to put it more simply, this team sucks and there isn't an adult in the building who can fix it this season.

And I'm sure that logic applies to the other 5 teams who will lose on wild card weekend, right? After all, they too will be 1 and done....Or are the Bucs the ONLY team that we can say is done in October but will win their division?

[Central_Buc]

Bowles seems better at scheming cool blitzes than he does leading an organization.

The Jets found out that he's a more than decent man, a very reliable and better than average defensive coordinator, but he has zero motivational skills with his monotone delivery, and during the game he comes across as overwhelmed with many crucial game day decisions. Asking him to be DC and HC is most likely overwhelming.

I can agree with that. I want to give him a chance to ride it out and maybe try a different OC because I see Lefty as more of an issue at the moment. But Bowles has a really good football mind and I think that in itself is reason to stay the course.

[Patrick McIrish]

Tom Brady didn't come back. That's the problem. Well, that's part of the problem. The other part is that he's still trying to lead and nobody is buying it from a guy who goes to soirees instead of walkthroughs.

I agree wth your other points but that's not trying to lead.

That's more like the parent telling the kids - "do as I say, not as I do".

Not a sound leadership move directed to grown men with outrageous athletic ability.

You have to show them first and you have to keep showing them you are fully vested.

Barking at guys when you're clearly half-assing the season will do nothing but cause resentment.

And by the way none of this is an emotional reaction, or fans being over-dramatic.

This is more about informed fans that can see beyond what is just happening on the field.

Anyone find it odd the Panthers punted early instead of trying that FG? The reason?

Evans is right, the team had already quit and the opponent saw it too......

No way was Carolina going to give this offense a short field to work with, make them drive the length of the field.

We'll get our chances later to score but the Bucs are done, let's not give them anything.

Credit to the Panthers and their staff, don't give a team that has already quit a reason to want to play again.

Meanwhile our staff looked like the bad beat guy that just got busted at the poker table and realizes he doesn't have his ATM cards.

Lost, confused, bewildered on the sidelines, that's not how you lead anyone. Need better from Bowles and staff.

And if anyone on the planet knows how to lead men it's Tom Brady.

He knows better than anyone you don't half-ass it, show minimal effort and then bark at everyone else to raise their level of play.

They need the greatest QB of all time to lead them, not an angry parent texting them to do as he says and not as he does.

The turn here starts with Brady or it doesn't start at all.

We move on.