Welcome Baker Mayfield

[CannonFire]

Great analysis. I’ve wondered that on White too.

Maybe with the bye they can install something like that to use him even more as a receiver and then utilize Bucky/Tucker as the traditional RB committee.

Players, not plays.

I've been saying for weeks that we should be using 21 personnel more often and have White play a Austin Ekeler type role. With Godwin and Evans out, this should have been a staple and should stay that way for the rest of the year.

[Grahamburn]

Great analysis. I’ve wondered that on White too.

Maybe with the bye they can install something like that to use him even more as a receiver and then utilize Bucky/Tucker as the traditional RB committee.

Players, not plays.

I've been saying for weeks that we should be using 21 personnel more often and have White play a Austin Ekeler type role. With Godwin and Evans out, this should have been a staple and should stay that way for the rest of the year.

@Sooner06 made some great points about White's ability as a pass protector as well as the different adjustments the WRs have to make. Would he be capable of completely learning that position , the route tree, and the responsibilities on the fly? It's also a lot different running routes against a corner versus a LB or DE.

I think they probably hoped McMillan was going to fill the slot, but he has been in and out now for weeks.

Wondering if the bye week will allow for some of these tweaks?

[CannonFire]

I've been saying for weeks that we should be using 21 personnel more often and have White play a Austin Ekeler type role. With Godwin and Evans out, this should have been a staple and should stay that way for the rest of the year.

@Sooner06 made some great points about White's ability as a pass protector as well as the different adjustments the WRs have to make. Would he be capable of completely learning that position , the route tree, and the responsibilities on the fly? It's also a lot different running routes against a corner versus a LB or DE.

I think they probably hoped McMillan was going to fill the slot, but he has been in and out now for weeks.

Wondering if the bye week will allow for some of these tweaks?

Sure, he did, but I mean, it's not like we didn't know this last year. Listening to NFL Radio at the mid point of the season last year, it was talked about regularly that White was good in pass protection and looked like a natural pass catcher. Pass catching was even listed as strengths for him heading into the draft. We've seen it all year this year too.

I have no doubt their hope was that McMillan could show that he could take over for Godwin. I fully believe that was the driving force behind drafting him. Reading up on fantasy websites, it was noted on 2 separate outlets that not only has McMillian not been able to stay healthy, when he was, he was a detriment to the offense. One outlet said that McMillan rated as the worst receiver in the NFL based on running the wrong routes, dropping passes, missing blocks, and running routes poorly. Now, that was a small sample size and he is a rookie, so nothing is locked in stone. That said, it's not a good sign for the future. I kind of makes the offseason decision on Godwin being back as a 100% gamble.

I'm skeptical. Mainly because when Skule was going owned by Hutchinson, my 8 year old nephew wondered why at halftime, they didn't bring in a TE to help block. Coaches can be stubborn. Last year, we saw it with Canales. Everyone on the planet, and even lifeforms in outer space, saw that our OLine run blocking scheme didn't work, our OLine was bad at run blocking, and holes weren't open... but that didn't stop Canales from forcing the run and putting our offense in a bad situations. Yet, people still praised him for some reason. Coen is much better at this job than Canales... substantially better. Still, he refused to realize what a child did with blocking... or, he refuse to address it. One of the two. Using White as a pass catcher was a more wise idea Week 1, then throwing Palmer and McMillan in the fire, but that never showed up on the field. It still hasn't. I'm not sure why Coen isn't addressing this.

[Sooner06]

I've been wondering the same thing myself. I have a question that might shed a little light on the subject: how much has Miller been lined up in the slot? Because maybe what Coen has been trying to do is make Miller Godwin's temp replacement so he can keep White in the backfield for pass-pro?

[mdb1958]

Getting his buddy a job and dumping on Palmer and Jarrett wasnt the right move.

[Sooner06]

Getting his buddy a job and dumping on Palmer and Jarrett wasnt the right move.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're meaning is here. Could you be more specific, I guess? Who is "his buddy"? And who is "dumping on Palmer an Jarrett"? Just so I understand what we're talking about here.

[mdb1958]

Getting his buddy a job and dumping on Palmer and Jarrett wasnt the right move.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're meaning is here. Could you be more specific, I guess? Who is "his buddy"? And who is "dumping on Palmer an Jarrett"? Just so I understand what we're talking about here.

Sterling Shepard and Baker. Sooner? should have known this. Baker threw 3 int's dealing with rookie McMillan (also super Mike with 3), then called up Shepard for minimal help and Palmer and Jarrett were thrown on the back burner with a rickety ole extension cord.

[Grahamburn]

Shepard has made more plays than both of them combined. Odd take.

[mdb1958]

Shepard has made more plays than both of them combined. Odd take.

Exactly, dump (show less attention) two WR's for 20 yards a game.

[Grahamburn]

Shepard has made more plays than both of them combined. Odd take.

Exactly, dump (show less attention) two WR's for 20 yards a game.

Jarrett just got back but Palmer has had opportunities. Jarrett showed nothing against SF.

[mdb1958]

Exactly, dump (show less attention) two WR's for 20 yards a game.

Jarrett just got back but Palmer has had opportunities. Jarrett showed nothing against SF.

Baker showed nothing so he blessed Jarrett with a 4 yarder and a 6 yarder. You have to want to sling the ball around and get everybody involved.

[Sooner06]

Jarrett just got back but Palmer has had opportunities. Jarrett showed nothing against SF.

Baker showed nothing so he blessed Jarrett with a 4 yarder and a 6 yarder. You have to want to sling the ball around and get everybody involved.

Well, I mean, look at the situation and the players we're talking about. Tb lost both their WR1 and WR2 in the same game. That's necessarily going to force the OC and the Qb to make significant changes in how they operate going forward. So they tried to substitute McMillan and Palmer into Evans' and Godwin's spots. The problem with that though is that McMillan is a rookie still needing a lot of development and Palmer is just starting his second season and also needs a ton of work.

But Shepard is an 8-yr veteran, that's been in more than one system. He has the sheer quantity of experience that McMillan, Palmer, Jarrett, or Miller just don't have. Plus, he has familiarity with Baker that those guys don't have.

Point being, it goes way beyond just that Baker and Shepard are friends and teammates from college. It's mostly about how quickly the WR in question can get comfortable with the QB and the suddenly modified offense. In most cases that's going to be the 8-yr vet with years of familiarity with the QB, not the 1-2 yr newbies, several of whom have barely 6 months with Baker and in the new system, no?

[Sooner06]

A breakdown/analysis of Baker's game vs. SF. I think this is a pretty good one, because this guy doesn't pull any punches with his critique of Baker's play. Plus, I agree with nearly everything he sees/says about Baker's performance last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbDxDLU_uCU

One play in particular I want to note begins at about 21:21. JoeA says that Shepard is running a corner, and maybe that was what was drawn up. It does look like it should've been once he diagrams it.

But Shepard doesn't run a corner there. Now, during the game I thought he was running a hook or just sitting down because he was between the defenders in a big open space, which would've been the smart veteran thing to do.

But I felt he was kind of drifty there, and turned outside, when I felt he should've either broke off the route sharply and sat down right there, or broke off sharply and come back inside, to present the best possible target picture to the QB. In other words, I felt it was kind of a lazy adjustment by the WR, which didn't allow Baker to just rip it.

Instead, Shepard does turn his head around, but he keeps drifting outside for a few steps, so maybe he was running a corner and decided in-route to maybe sit down. I don't know, it's hard to say. But in real time as the game unfolded I hated that Shepard turned outside there. Ymmv.

As a sidenote, if you look at Baker's protection on that play, at the moment that Shepard is drifting outside, Baker gets a rusher right in his lap, which brings his eyes down and forces him to pull it down and run for it. Which is why I really feel if Shepard had broken the route off sharply and just sat down, Baker might've felt confident enough to let that one fly. But again, ymmv.

Anyway, it was little things like this play that kept happening that I felt influenced whether Baker threw the ball downfield or not on several plays.

Anyway, hope some of you get something out of this breakdown.


P.S. This guy is not a Bowles, McMillan, or White fan. He makes that clear during his commentary.

[Grahamburn]

This is our QB.

[Pirate Life]

This is our QB.

This is also our QB.

[Grahamburn]

You love to see it, buuuuuuut also want him to chill that out a bit. Gotta run the next play.

[acmillis]

[Buc2]

This is our QB.

Irving got about 20 more yards on that run after Baker’s initial contact with the pursing defender. Love that!

[Ken]

Got him to the ground, too. Not gonna be a nice day in the film room for that DB.

[Doctor]

Anyone ready to tear up their Baker hater club cards I have scissors.

[acmillis]

Anyone ready to tear up their Baker hater club cards I have scissors.

Not yet, but it is exciting to watch him play.

[Grahamburn]

Lulz.

[Bootz]

I don't think there are any real Baker haters. Most of us simply realize who he is and that the ceiling is relatively low. But in the greater scheme of things, he's about what you'd expect in a mid tier QB.

[Sooner06]

I don't think there are any real Baker haters. Most of us simply realize who he is and that the ceiling is relatively low. But in the greater scheme of things, he's about what you'd expect in a mid tier QB.

Lol, mid-tier? I don't think you can legitimately name 10 QBs better than Baker in 2024.

[Doctor]

Hate in full swing. And in denial.

[Bootz]

I don't think there are any real Baker haters. Most of us simply realize who he is and that the ceiling is relatively low. But in the greater scheme of things, he's about what you'd expect in a mid tier QB.

Lol, mid-tier? I don't think you can legitimately name 10 QBs better than Baker in 2024.

That's the good thing about NFL careers: They last more than 1 year. Otherwise you'd be putting your in the position of saying you'd rather have Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes. You're not going that route, are you?

[Grahamburn]

I don't think there are any real Baker haters. Most of us simply realize who he is and that the ceiling is relatively low. But in the greater scheme of things, he's about what you'd expect in a mid tier QB.

Lol, mid-tier? I don't think you can legitimately name 10 QBs better than Baker in 2024.

He can’t and he won’t.

[Grahamburn]

Lol, mid-tier? I don't think you can legitimately name 10 QBs better than Baker in 2024.

That's the good thing about NFL careers: They last more than 1 year. Otherwise you'd be putting your in the position of saying you'd rather have Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes. You're not going that route, are you?

At some point the past is the past and you only have the future in front of you. Before the 2023 season would you have rather had Aaron Rodgers here or Baker Mayfield?

You’d have been wrong.

[Bootz]

That's the good thing about NFL careers: They last more than 1 year. Otherwise you'd be putting your in the position of saying you'd rather have Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes. You're not going that route, are you?

At some point the past is the past and you only have the future in front of you. Before the 2023 season would you have rather had Aaron Rodgers here or Baker Mayfield?

You’d have been wrong.

But we’re not talking about Aaron Rodgers. In fact I gave a very specific example, one you chose not to ignore and not bother to address. It’s for obvious reasons you chose to deflect here. Cowards gonna do what cowards do.

[Grahamburn]

Mahomes was the 10th pick. The Chiefs traded UP for him. They were picking 27th that year. The goal should be having people in your front office and on your staff that can IDENTIFY and COACH talent!

TANKING for early picks will not bring you a winning culture. Ever.

I'm not arguing that you don't need a badass QB. I am arguing that you absolutely do not have to ditch talented players and lose games to find one. Build your roster with talent. Build your culture with great coaches and great leaders of men. Pounce on the QB when they're available.

Imagine being Jason Licht or Todd Bowles or Bruce Arians and looking Mike Evans, or Ryan Jensen, or Tristan Wirfs, or LaVonte David in the face and telling them to lay it all on the line for a tanked season. Give me a break.

Great point, but Baker Mayfield is not an example of that talent. He's a bum, and bringing him in is a stopgap move by Licht who clearly isn't thinking long term because he knows his job is at stake. We're going to have to suffer in cap hell sooner or later. That's the price you pay for that Super Bowl. Might as well be sooner.

How we feeling?

[Grahamburn]

At some point the past is the past and you only have the future in front of you. Before the 2023 season would you have rather had Aaron Rodgers here or Baker Mayfield?

You’d have been wrong.

But we’re not talking about Aaron Rodgers. In fact I gave a very specific example, one you chose not to ignore and not bother to address. It’s for obvious reasons you chose to deflect here. Cowards gonna do what cowards do.

We’re not? Sure we are. Rodgers was the Mahomes of ten years ago. He was the guy everyone wanted. Until he wasn’t. And isn’t.

Is Mahomes still trending upward? Or is he coming down to earth?

Buy or sell?

[Bootz]

But we’re not talking about Aaron Rodgers. In fact I gave a very specific example, one you chose not to ignore and not bother to address. It’s for obvious reasons you chose to deflect here. Cowards gonna do what cowards do.

We’re not? Sure we are. Rodgers was the Mahomes of ten years ago. He was the guy everyone wanted. Until he wasn’t. And isn’t.

Is Mahomes still trending upward? Or is he coming down to earth?

Buy or sell?

Aaron Rodgers went to 4 Superbowls in 5 years and won 3??

Again, instead of going with an example that was clearly laid out, you chose to deflect and discuss someone from, by your own accounts, was an appropriate comparison from 10 years ago.

Mahomes is playing now and was the QB I brought up and twice now you’ve dodged the question at hand. Wanna make it 3 or do you wanna take your L at 2 and move on?

[Grahamburn]

We’re not? Sure we are. Rodgers was the Mahomes of ten years ago. He was the guy everyone wanted. Until he wasn’t. And isn’t.

Is Mahomes still trending upward? Or is he coming down to earth?

Buy or sell?

Aaron Rodgers went to 4 Superbowls in 5 years and won 3??

Again, instead of going with an example that was clearly laid out, you chose to deflect and discuss someone from, by your own accounts, was an appropriate comparison from 10 years ago.

Mahomes is playing now and was the QB I brought up and twice now you’ve dodged the question at hand. Wanna make it 3 or do you wanna take your L at 2 and move on?

What L?

Longing for some unattainable QB is kind of silly, no? What’s your point? Baker < Mahomes? You win, dude.

But, eventually… And sooner rather than later by the looks of it.

[Bootz]

Aaron Rodgers went to 4 Superbowls in 5 years and won 3??

Again, instead of going with an example that was clearly laid out, you chose to deflect and discuss someone from, by your own accounts, was an appropriate comparison from 10 years ago.

Mahomes is playing now and was the QB I brought up and twice now you’ve dodged the question at hand. Wanna make it 3 or do you wanna take your L at 2 and move on?

What L?

Longing for some unattainable QB is kind of silly, no? What’s your point? Baker < Mahomes? You win, dude.

But, eventually… And sooner rather than later by the looks of it.

As soon as you deflected you took an L.

Again, question posed to @Sooner06 was clear as day and mentioned 2 QBs. It would’ve been simple to answer the question, would you take Baker Mayfield over Patrick Mahomes. Instead you chose to go on a word salad journey, bring in a QB that’s 12 years older than both of the QBs in question because you’re afraid to answer the question.

[Grahamburn]

What L?

Longing for some unattainable QB is kind of silly, no? What’s your point? Baker < Mahomes? You win, dude.

But, eventually… And sooner rather than later by the looks of it.

As soon as you deflected you took an L.

Again, question posed to @Sooner06 was clear as day and mentioned 2 QBs. It would’ve been simple to answer the question, would you take Baker Mayfield over Patrick Mahomes. Instead you chose to go on a word salad journey, bring in a QB that’s 12 years older than both of the QBs in question because you’re afraid to answer the question.

You somehow made it about Baker vs. Mahomes after calling Mayfield “mid-tier.” Nobody brought up Patrick but you.

You’re the one deflecting.