Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Bootz]

As soon as you deflected you took an L.

Again, question posed to @Sooner06 was clear as day and mentioned 2 QBs. It would’ve been simple to answer the question, would you take Baker Mayfield over Patrick Mahomes. Instead you chose to go on a word salad journey, bring in a QB that’s 12 years older than both of the QBs in question because you’re afraid to answer the question.

You somehow made it about Baker vs. Mahomes after calling Mayfield “mid-tier.” Nobody brought up Patrick but you.

You’re the one deflecting.

Again, I provided an example and asked a question. The question has still gone unanswered.

[mdb1958]

The money we would have to pay Mahomes would just dig us a deeper hole.

[Grahamburn]

You somehow made it about Baker vs. Mahomes after calling Mayfield “mid-tier.” Nobody brought up Patrick but you.

You’re the one deflecting.

Again, I provided an example and asked a question. The question has still gone unanswered.

Patrick Mahomes is a better QB than Baker mayfield. Here’s your prize? …

[Bootz]

The money we would have to pay Mahomes would just dig us a deeper hole.

Just like it’s done the Chiefs in, huh?

[Grahamburn]

The money we would have to pay Mahomes would just dig us a deeper hole.

This is like saying you’d like to marry Margot Robbie.

Yeah, that’d be great, but it’s not an option.

[Bootz]

Again, I provided an example and asked a question. The question has still gone unanswered.

Patrick Mahomes is a better QB than Baker mayfield. Here’s your prize? …

Exactly. Now you see why Baker is mid-tier if you’re being objective. You’re not just going to factor in 2024. You’re going to take the entire body of work.

[Grahamburn]

Patrick Mahomes is a better QB than Baker mayfield. Here’s your prize? …

Exactly. Now you see why Baker is mid-tier if you’re being objective. You’re not just going to factor in 2024. You’re going to take the entire body of work.

Can you present the tiers so I can have a better understanding?

[Bootz]

Exactly. Now you see why Baker is mid-tier if you’re being objective. You’re not just going to factor in 2024. You’re going to take the entire body of work.

Can you present the tiers so I can have a better understanding?

Let’s use @Sooner06’s comment that he can’t legitimately name 10 QBs he’d take over Baker. Easy.

Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Jalen Hurts
Joe Burrow
Jordan Love
CJ Stroud
Tua Tagovioloa
Russell Wilson
Jared Goff
Jayden Daniels


I’d put Baker in the same tier as QBs like Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Brock Purdy.

[Grahamburn]

Lol. Harder than you thought wasn’t it?

[Ken]

Baker is there with the end of that list.

[Bootz]

Lol. Harder than you thought wasn’t it?

I stopped at 10 to be generous. It wasn't nearly as hard as you'd think.

[Doctor]

I'm taking Baker over half that list, what are you talking about.

[Bootz]

I'm taking Baker over half that list, what are you talking about.

You have more hopeium than you do credibility and football acumen. So we take that assertion with a grain of salt.

[Grahamburn]

Lol. Harder than you thought wasn’t it?

I stopped at 10 to be generous. It wasn't nearly as hard as you'd think.

That’s what she said.

[Bootz]

I stopped at 10 to be generous. It wasn't nearly as hard as you'd think.

That’s what she said.

4 kids later....

[Sooner06]

Lol, mid-tier? I don't think you can legitimately name 10 QBs better than Baker in 2024.

That's the good thing about NFL careers: They last more than 1 year. Otherwise you'd be putting your in the position of saying you'd rather have Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes. You're not going that route, are you?

Lol, I've said multiple times that Baker isn't elite or in the top-5, so kind of a moot point.


You said "mid-tier," implying that Baker is no better than 11th in the league and that's his ceiling. Quite clearly you're wrong this season, because his ceiling this season is top-5. Currently he's ranked 6th. Which, some may remember, I said he could reach 6th-7th if he had the right coaching/minimum talent around him. And just fyi, I'm not even limiting the discussion to this season. We can go back and look at his stats over the last 30 games, which includes all of last season, including playoffs, and this season, and Baker is quite clearly statistically a top-10 QB.


Either you can read or you can't.

[Sooner06]

Can you present the tiers so I can have a better understanding?

Let’s use @Sooner06’s comment that he can’t legitimately name 10 QBs he’d take over Baker. Easy.

Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Jalen Hurts
Joe Burrow
Jordan Love
CJ Stroud
Tua Tagovioloa
Russell Wilson
Jared Goff
Jayden Daniels


I’d put Baker in the same tier as QBs like Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Brock Purdy.

Lol, provide some kind of evidence that Jordan Love, CJ Stroud, Tua, Jared Goff, Jayden Daniels are better than Baker.

CJ's been figured out. He can't execute against Cover-3. Tua isn't as durable, or mobile, and has an average arm. Goff has proven several times already this season he isn't the QB that Baker is. They literally pulled the plug on him just a few games ago because he couldn't compete a pass beyond 5 yds in the second half of that game. Jayden's been figured out. Took less than a season. Hurts is only succeeding because he has the best RB in the game blowing the doors off opposing defenses. DO you even watch Hurts? And Russell Wilson, lol. Won't even dignify that with a response. No one credible believes that.

And you forgot Matt Stafford. The list should be Mahomes, Josh, Lamar, Burrow and Stafford.

[Bootz]

Let’s use @Sooner06’s comment that he can’t legitimately name 10 QBs he’d take over Baker. Easy.

Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Jalen Hurts
Joe Burrow
Jordan Love
CJ Stroud
Tua Tagovioloa
Russell Wilson
Jared Goff
Jayden Daniels


I’d put Baker in the same tier as QBs like Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Brock Purdy.

Lol, provide some kind of evidence that Jordan Love, CJ Stroud, Tua, Jared Goff, Jayden Daniels are better than Baker.

CJ's been figured out. He can't execute against Cover-3. Tua isn't as durable, or mobile, and has an average arm. Goff has proven several times already this season he isn't the QB that Baker is. They literally pulled the plug on him just a few games ago because he couldn't compete a pass beyond 5 yds in the second half of that game. Jayden's been figured out. Took less than a season. Hurts is only succeeding because he has the best RB in the game blowing the doors off opposing defenses. DO you even watch Hurts? And Russell Wilson, lol. Won't even dignify that with a response. No one credible believes that.

And you forgot Matt Stafford. The list should be Mahomes, Josh, Lamar, Burrow and Stafford.

Love...Better numbers and overall record
Stroud....Better numbers and overall record
Tua....WAY better numbers and overall record
Goff....Better numbers and overall record
Daniels....Higher ceiling and overall ability. Plus better winning percentage early on.
Hurts....Better numbers and overall record.
Wilson.....Better numbers and overall record.

Now provide some evidence that Baker is better than these guys.

[Sooner06]

Lol, provide some kind of evidence that Jordan Love, CJ Stroud, Tua, Jared Goff, Jayden Daniels are better than Baker.

CJ's been figured out. He can't execute against Cover-3. Tua isn't as durable, or mobile, and has an average arm. Goff has proven several times already this season he isn't the QB that Baker is. They literally pulled the plug on him just a few games ago because he couldn't compete a pass beyond 5 yds in the second half of that game. Jayden's been figured out. Took less than a season. Hurts is only succeeding because he has the best RB in the game blowing the doors off opposing defenses. DO you even watch Hurts? And Russell Wilson, lol. Won't even dignify that with a response. No one credible believes that.

And you forgot Matt Stafford. The list should be Mahomes, Josh, Lamar, Burrow and Stafford.

Love...Better numbers and overall record
Stroud....Better numbers and overall record
Tua....WAY better numbers and overall record
Goff....Better numbers and overall record
Daniels....Higher ceiling and overall ability. Plus better winning percentage early on.
Hurts....Better numbers and overall record.
Wilson.....Better numbers and overall record.

Now provide some evidence that Baker is better than these guys.

Better record??? That's the limit of your evaluation? All the while knowing that Baker's not been at fault for his record this season? Lol.

And what are you talking about "better numbers"? What numbers exactly? Because consulting Statmuse, that's simply not the case.

Baker Mayfield last 30 games, per Statmuse:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/baker- ... t-30-games
passer rating of 99.0 with 7,529 yards, 58 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in 30 games

Jordan Love's last 30 games, per Statmuse:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jordan ... t-30-games
passer rating of 96.0 with 6,991 yards, 56 touchdowns and 24 interceptions in 30 games

CJ Stroud last 27 games:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/c.j.-s ... t-27-games
passer rating of 96.1 with 6,806 yards, 38 touchdowns and 14 interceptions in 27 games

Tua:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/tua-ta ... t-30-games
passer rating of 98.2 with 7,866 yards, 50 touchdowns and 24 interceptions in 30 games

Goff:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jared- ... t-30-games
passer rating of 102.4 with 7,920 yards, 53 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in 30 games

Jayden:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jayden ... t-11-games
passer rating of 98.0 with 2,429 yards, 12 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in 11 games

Hurts;
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jalen- ... t-30-games
passer rating of 94.4 with 6,788 yards, 38 touchdowns and 20 interceptions in 30 games

Wilson:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/russel ... t-30-games
passer rating of 93.7 with 6,552 yards, 45 touchdowns and 18 interceptions in 30 games



Only Goff has a better PR.

Baker has more yards than all but Goff and Tua. 4th in TD/INT ratio.

And every single one of these guys has been with the same team for their careers, except Goff and Wilson. Only Wilson has had to learn a new system in the past two seasons. And Baker is the only one that's had to play without his top two WRs for an extended period of time. While learning a new system.


CJ Stroud's been figured out. His W/l (lol, that you're using record, but whatever) over his last 4 games is 1-3. His completion% over those 4 games was 60.6, 67.6, 57.6, and 36.7%. His Td/INT over that span: 4/5. His Passer Rating over the last 4 games: 69.95. He's been sacked 17 times in the last 4 games.

Baker has the same W/L, but his completion% (only one game with Evans over the same span): 80.0, 62.1, 74.2, 74.0%. TD/INT: 6/2. Passer Rating: 99.1. Baker's been sacked 4 times over the last 4 games.

Stroud's been figured out. And what's left isn't anywhere near the same level as Baker at this point. Maybe 2-3 years from now, but not at this point.

Ditto Jayden. He's been figured out. Of course, he's a rook, so maybe he'll bounce back in 2025. But again, his last 4 games, he's posted a lower completion%, lower TD/INT ratio, lower overall PR, and he's been sacked 10 times.

Hurts is only good when he has a top-5 WR, top-5 OL and a great RB. In every instance, like the latter half of last season, when he hasn't had those things, he becomes very average.

Normally, I wouldn't even consider a QB that's only played 5 games, but Russell Wilson's completion%: 75.0, 63.9, 50.0 71.4, 55.2. TD/INt: 7/2. PR: 100.34. Sacked 16 times. And taken out of the game more often than not when PIT enters the RZ in favor of Justin Fields. So can't believe that Russ is better than just about any starting QB at this point.

Even the tape says Baker is better than all those guys this season. Would MIA be better or worse with Baker? Well, Baker could throw a lot deeper than Tua. He can throw with better anticipation. More mobile. Doesn't get concussions every few weeks. Doesn't have a problem playing in cold weather. Yeah, Baker would make MIA an actual contender.

Love is too streaky and throws way too many hospital balls. When consulting PFR's Advanced Passing/Accuracy, Baker the stats bear this out. Baker throws fewer bad throws (12.2% vs. 16.1%) and has a better OnTarget% (70.4% vs. 66.7%). SO again, if Baker were leading GB would they be better or worse? Obviously, they'd be better.

Jared Goff is slightly better in terms of Bad throws (11.6%), but has a lower OnTarget% (75.4%).

Hurts, you ask? Baker beats him out as well. hurts BT% (13.2%) and his OT% (78.9%)


And so on.



Ball's back ibn your court. Try to provide something stronger/more compelling than W/L record.

[Sooner06]

Love...Better numbers and overall record
Stroud....Better numbers and overall record
Tua....WAY better numbers and overall record
Goff....Better numbers and overall record
Daniels....Higher ceiling and overall ability. Plus better winning percentage early on.
Hurts....Better numbers and overall record.
Wilson.....Better numbers and overall record.

Now provide some evidence that Baker is better than these guys.

Better record??? That's the limit of your evaluation? All the while knowing that Baker's not been at fault for his record this season? Lol.

And what are you talking about "better numbers"? What numbers exactly? Because consulting Statmuse, that's simply not the case.

Baker Mayfield last 30 games, per Statmuse:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/baker- ... t-30-games
passer rating of 99.0 with 7,529 yards, 58 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in 30 games

Jordan Love's last 30 games, per Statmuse:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jordan ... t-30-games
passer rating of 96.0 with 6,991 yards, 56 touchdowns and 24 interceptions in 30 games

CJ Stroud last 27 games:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/c.j.-s ... t-27-games
passer rating of 96.1 with 6,806 yards, 38 touchdowns and 14 interceptions in 27 games

Tua:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/tua-ta ... t-30-games
passer rating of 98.2 with 7,866 yards, 50 touchdowns and 24 interceptions in 30 games

Goff:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jared- ... t-30-games
passer rating of 102.4 with 7,920 yards, 53 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in 30 games

Jayden:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jayden ... t-11-games
passer rating of 98.0 with 2,429 yards, 12 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in 11 games

Hurts;
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jalen- ... t-30-games
passer rating of 94.4 with 6,788 yards, 38 touchdowns and 20 interceptions in 30 games

Wilson:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/russel ... t-30-games
passer rating of 93.7 with 6,552 yards, 45 touchdowns and 18 interceptions in 30 games



Only Goff has a better PR.

Baker has more yards than all but Goff and Tua. 4th in TD/INT ratio.

And every single one of these guys has been with the same team for their careers, except Goff and Wilson. Only Wilson has had to learn a new system in the past two seasons. And Baker is the only one that's had to play without his top two WRs for an extended period of time. While learning a new system.


CJ Stroud's been figured out. His W/l (lol, that you're using record, but whatever) over his last 4 games is 1-3. His completion% over those 4 games was 60.6, 67.6, 57.6, and 36.7%. His Td/INT over that span: 4/5. His Passer Rating over the last 4 games: 69.95. He's been sacked 17 times in the last 4 games.

Baker has the same W/L, but his completion% (only one game with Evans over the same span): 80.0, 62.1, 74.2, 74.0%. TD/INT: 6/2. Passer Rating: 99.1. Baker's been sacked 4 times over the last 4 games.

Stroud's been figured out. And what's left isn't anywhere near the same level as Baker at this point. Maybe 2-3 years from now, but not at this point.

Ditto Jayden. He's been figured out. Of course, he's a rook, so maybe he'll bounce back in 2025. But again, his last 4 games, he's posted a lower completion%, lower TD/INT ratio, lower overall PR, and he's been sacked 10 times.

Hurts is only good when he has a top-5 WR, top-5 OL and a great RB. In every instance, like the latter half of last season, when he hasn't had those things, he becomes very average.

Normally, I wouldn't even consider a QB that's only played 5 games, but Russell Wilson's completion%: 75.0, 63.9, 50.0 71.4, 55.2. TD/INt: 7/2. PR: 100.34. Sacked 16 times. And taken out of the game more often than not when PIT enters the RZ in favor of Justin Fields. So can't believe that Russ is better than just about any starting QB at this point.

Even the tape says Baker is better than all those guys this season. Would MIA be better or worse with Baker? Well, Baker could throw a lot deeper than Tua. He can throw with better anticipation. More mobile. Doesn't get concussions every few weeks. Doesn't have a problem playing in cold weather. Yeah, Baker would make MIA an actual contender.

Love is too streaky and throws way too many hospital balls. When consulting PFR's Advanced Passing/Accuracy, Baker the stats bear this out. Baker throws fewer bad throws (12.2% vs. 16.1%) and has a better OnTarget% (70.4% vs. 66.7%). SO again, if Baker were leading GB would they be better or worse? Obviously, they'd be better.

Jared Goff is slightly better in terms of Bad throws (11.6%), but has a lower OnTarget% (75.4%).

Hurts, you ask? Baker beats him out as well. hurts BT% (13.2%) and his OT% (78.9%)


And so on.



Ball's back in your court, pal. Try to provide something stronger/more compelling than W/L record.

[Grahamburn]

I think Baker is Super Elite Upper Tier, and I wouldn’t trade him for anyone. He’s all Buc.

[Bootz]

I think Baker is Super Elite Upper Tier, and I wouldn’t trade him for anyone. He’s all Buc.

[Jonny]

Can you present the tiers so I can have a better understanding?

Let’s use @Sooner06’s comment that he can’t legitimately name 10 QBs he’d take over Baker. Easy.

Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Jalen Hurts
Joe Burrow
Jordan Love
CJ Stroud
Tua Tagovioloa
Russell Wilson
Jared Goff
Jayden Daniels


I’d put Baker in the same tier as QBs like Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Brock Purdy.

Wilson is on the verge of being a has been like Rodgers. Tua is made of glass and very rarely if ever rallies his team against the odds. Baker is better than them, quite easily in my opinion.

I would put Dak and Kirk in that list ahead of those two. But I agree that Baker is not top 10. More like 10-15. Baker is having an amazing statistical season as of now, but I will need him to finish this season strong before I start to put him ahead of some others on that list.

Jayden is going through an infatuation phase which is understandable for a young, dynamic QB. Stroud got that kind of love last season, but has been struggling to match that performance. Jordan Love is excellently managed by his coach. Jared Goff is also perfectly blended into the Lions offense. But that is the case with Baker as well and Liam Coen.

Some of us love the few heroic plays Baker makes, combine that with his statistical excellence this season and feel he's better than half the guys on this list. I'm with you. But Baker's career arc and lack of marquee wins in grand stages are a reason he doesn't get that benefit of doubt. Beating the eagles doesn't count. They were a beaten team entering the playoffs. Beating the Steelers doesn't count because the Steelers have excelled at above average toothless football for quite some time now. Yes, it is amazing for the city of Cleveland, but not a marquee win.

[Pirate Life]

If we compare Mayfield across the last two years to Hurts, Wilson, Love, Stroud, Goff and Tua he actually does better than some think. I'm leaving out Mahomes, Allen, Jackson and Burrow for hopefully obvious reasons and Daniels has only played 11 games in his career. RG3 looked like a future top 2-3 QB his rookie season, going to wait on Daniels (though I think he won't flame out as badly as RG3 did).

1) More TD passes than any of them (leads the league in TD passes the past two years actually - only Allen and Jackson have more combined pass/rush TDS)

2) Only ones with higher completion percentage are Goff and Tua.

3) Only ones with more passing yards are Goff and Stroud.

4) Only ones with less INTs are Stroud, Wilson and Tua.

5) Only ones with a higher passer rating are Goff and Tua.

6) Only one with more rushing yards is Hurts.

7) Only ones with more rushing TDs are Hurts and Love.

7) All but Mayfield, Goff and Hurts have missed games due to injury or being benched.

8) All do have a better record than Mayfield the last two seasons, but with football being a team sport not a big fan of making wins/losses a QB stat. Multiple losses under Mayfield have been due to the defense (especially this season).

So, looking at all of this the only QBs that are arguably better overall than Mayfield would be Goff and Tua. And Hurts should be a RB, he's last in nearly every passing stat among this group.

I started looking at fumbles as well, but since there's no good source for lost fumbles I couldn't be bothered to go through every game the past two seasons for all of these guys to track the ones they lost.

Is Mayfield top 5? No. But based on his time with the Bucs, I'd put him in the lower part of the top 10. 8th or 9th maybe.

[Doctor]

Scrolled passed this, thought it fitting to share.

[Doctor]

I'm taking Baker over half that list, what are you talking about.

You have more hopeium than you do credibility and football acumen. So we take that assertion with a grain of salt.

Who is we? You and your other accounts?
I'll hold up my receipts against all of theirs.

[Lordnlkon]

Anyone who would take half those QB’s over Baker at this point are just idiots.

[Lordnlkon]

Scrolled passed this, thought it fitting to share.

Silly to have Mahomes so low. His stats aren’t great this year but he’s still a huge reason they are winning like they are.

[Bootz]

Scrolled passed this, thought it fitting to share.

Silly to have Mahomes so low. His stats aren’t great this year but he’s still a huge reason they are winning like they are.

List lost all credibility with Mahomes being below top 2. He's beaten every other guy he's played that's above him except Allen this season.

[Bootz]

Scrolled passed this, thought it fitting to share.

Mahomes at 10= Zero credibility


ZERO!

[Doctor]

https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/186151 ... aUHMQ&s=19

Scrolled passed this, thought it fitting to share.

Silly to have Mahomes so low. His stats aren’t great this year but he’s still a huge reason they are winning like they are.

That's the obvious click bait one.

[Bootz]

Silly to have Mahomes so low. His stats aren’t great this year but he’s still a huge reason they are winning like they are.

That's the obvious click bait one.

Takes a special kind of person to post something and then tell everyone it was click bait. Thats when you know you have no credibility, everyone else knows you have no credibility, you know that everyone else knows you have no credibility and you still don't care.

[Bootz]

If we compare Mayfield across the last two years to Hurts, Wilson, Love, Stroud, Goff and Tua he actually does better than some think. I'm leaving out Mahomes, Allen, Jackson and Burrow for hopefully obvious reasons and Daniels has only played 11 games in his career. RG3 looked like a future top 2-3 QB his rookie season, going to wait on Daniels (though I think he won't flame out as badly as RG3 did).

1) More TD passes than any of them (leads the league in TD passes the past two years actually - only Allen and Jackson have more combined pass/rush TDS)

2) Only ones with higher completion percentage are Goff and Tua.

3) Only ones with more passing yards are Goff and Stroud.

4) Only ones with less INTs are Stroud, Wilson and Tua.

5) Only ones with a higher passer rating are Goff and Tua.

6) Only one with more rushing yards is Hurts.

7) Only ones with more rushing TDs are Hurts and Love.

7) All but Mayfield, Goff and Hurts have missed games due to injury or being benched.

8) All do have a better record than Mayfield the last two seasons, but with football being a team sport not a big fan of making wins/losses a QB stat. Multiple losses under Mayfield have been due to the defense (especially this season).

So, looking at all of this the only QBs that are arguably better overall than Mayfield would be Goff and Tua. And Hurts should be a RB, he's last in nearly every passing stat among this group.

I started looking at fumbles as well, but since there's no good source for lost fumbles I couldn't be bothered to go through every game the past two seasons for all of these guys to track the ones they lost.

Is Mayfield top 5? No. But based on his time with the Bucs, I'd put him in the lower part of the top 10. 8th or 9th maybe.

Any QB that has to have the offense scaled down to save him from himself isn't top 10. Ever. Sorry.

[Doctor]

That's the obvious click bait one.

Takes a special kind of person to post something and then tell everyone it was click bait. Thats when you know you have no credibility, everyone else knows you have no credibility, you know that everyone else knows you have no credibility and you still don't care.

Dude, what are you going on about right now?

[Bootz]

Takes a special kind of person to post something and then tell everyone it was click bait. Thats when you know you have no credibility, everyone else knows you have no credibility, you know that everyone else knows you have no credibility and you still don't care.

Dude, what are you going on about right now?

Your click bait