Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Pirate Life]

Any QB that has to have the offense scaled down to save him from himself isn't top 10. Ever. Sorry.

Alright, so that eliminates Goff, Hurts, Wilson and Love from the top ten. Who are you elevating above them and Mayfield?

[Doctor]

Dude, what are you going on about right now?

Your click bait

Its not my tweet.
I'm also not a source.

You take yourself too seriously.

[Doctor]

Any QB that has to have the offense scaled down to save him from himself isn't top 10. Ever. Sorry.

Alright, so that eliminates Goff, Hurts, Wilson and Love from the top ten. Who are you elevating above them and Mayfield?

Nice.

I think Baker is on that second Tier. Definitely a guy you can win with and you don't throw away chasing Lamar or bust.

I trust him more than the guys you just eliminated there.

[Bootz]

Alright, so that eliminates Goff, Hurts, Wilson and Love from the top ten. Who are you elevating above them and Mayfield?

Nice.

I think Baker is on that second Tier. Definitely a guy you can win with and you don't throw away chasing Lamar or bust.

I trust him more than the guys you just eliminated there.

[Doctor]

I'm seeing a lot of guys who aren't jumping in he fumble.

[Bootz]

I'm seeing a lot of guys who aren't jumping in he fumble.

I'm seeing a bunch of guys who don't have losing records.

[Doctor]

I mean you usually make a harder effort than most to avoid nuance, but to take it all the way to the record level is a desperate last line defense.

But you already know that. You've written all those awful Justin Fields posts.

[Bootz]

I mean you usually make a harder effort than most to avoid nuance, but to take it all the way to the record level is a desperate last line defense.

But you already know that. You've written all those awful Justin Fields posts.

No need to rely on nuance if you're being honest. Again, you rely on being vague, ambiguity, optimism. Nothing about your view points are set in reality and everyone knows it. Most of all you.

[Sooner06]

I'm seeing a lot of guys who aren't jumping in he fumble.

I'm seeing a bunch of guys who don't have losing records.

Lol, who cares about their W/L records? Matt Stafford's stats are far and away better than just about any QB over the last 16 years, and he has a losing record, 103-113-1. His PR and QBR alone say he's elite, and should be considered a top-5 or so QB at this time. Ditto his TD/INT ratio. His overall stats say he's a HoFer.

His W/L record is a product of playing for one of the worst franchises and some of the worst coaches in NFL history for 12 years of his 16-year career, that consistently sported some of the worst defenses in the league for most of that time.

I mean, Stafford is a textbook example of the truism, "football is the ultimate team sport." No QB is going to have a winning record without a ton of help from his coaches, teammates, defense, STs.

Hell, Mahomes hasn't carried the Chiefs to Ws for two seasons now. The defense, and in several playoff games, the STs have. Anyone with eyes can see that.

[Sooner06]

I'm seeing a bunch of guys who don't have losing records.

Lol, who cares about their W/L records? Matt Stafford's stats are far and away better than just about any QB over the last 16 years, and he has a losing record, 103-113-1. His PR and QBR alone say he's elite, and should be considered a top-5 or so QB at this time. Ditto his TD/INT ratio. His overall stats say he's a HoFer.

His W/L record is a product of playing for one of the worst franchises and some of the worst coaches in NFL history for 12 years of his 16-year career, that consistently sported some of the worst defenses in the league for most of that time.

I mean, Stafford is a textbook example of the truism, "football is the ultimate team sport." No QB is going to have a winning record without a ton of help from his coaches, teammates, defense, STs.

Hell, Mahomes hasn't carried the Chiefs to Ws for three seasons now. The defense, and in several playoff games, the STs have. Anyone with eyes can see that.

Lol, Sam Darnold has a 9-2 record. Which makes him the 3rd best QB in the league, according to Bootz. russell Wilson is a better QB than Lamar Jackson based on the 'W/L' theory of evaluating QBs by Bootz.

Ha, Malik Willis leads the league in terms of W/L, so he's the best QB in the NFL.

[Grahamburn]

Nice.

I think Baker is on that second Tier. Definitely a guy you can win with and you don't throw away chasing Lamar or bust.

I trust him more than the guys you just eliminated there.

Why are you laughing? Baker has literally beaten all those guys on the field.

[Pirate Life]

I'm seeing a bunch of guys who don't have losing records.

QB wins are a terrible stat to judge by. Nick Foles, Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett, Joe Nameth and Eli Manning are all SuperBowl winning QBs without winning records for their career. Nameth is in the HOF with a losing record as a starter - in his 13 seasons he only had 4 winning seasons and only one winning season (a 7-6 record) after winning the Superbowl.

In relation to the group of QBs in this discussion, all of them went to better situations than Mayfield did in their rookie seasons.

Mayfield's first two years he had three head coaches, three offensive coordinators and three offensive systems. He wasn't pegged as the starter in his first season, but Tyrod Taylor gets injured in the third game of the season with the Browns down 14-0 against the Jets. Mayfield comes in and leads the team to a 21-17 win but due to NFL's accounting Taylor gets the win rather than Mayfield - even though Mayfield played more and all of the points were scored under him. Count that win for him, he finishes his rookie season 7-7 instead of the official 6-7. That win against the Jets was also the first win for the Browns in 19 games and only the second one in 39 games.

Browns started the season with Todd Haley as their offensive coordinator and Hue Jackson as the HC. Haley of course ran an offense based around the Erhardt-Perkins concepts (like the Patriots did), but after Haley and Jackson were fired midway through the season Mayfield's OC becomes Freddie Kitchens who shifts the playcalls (doubt the entire offensive scheme shifted) to be more of a West Coast short passing offense. It seems to have worked as the Browns go 5-3 after Jackson is fired.

Next season in 2019 is just a disaster for the Browns all around and is Mayfield's worst year as a passer. He throws a bit over 25% of the interceptions of his career in 2019, gets his third head coach in his second OC Kitchens and his third OC in Todd Monken with a third offensive system based on Air Coryell concepts. The team trades for OBJ, who ends up creating drama on the field with punches thrown at Marlon Humphrey in one game and a couple of fines/forced to change uniform during the game for wearing different colored cleats and other unspecified 'uniform violations'. Rumors abound that OBJ's not happy to have been traded out of NY and he's not happy being in Cleveland. Myles Garrett gets suspended for the season after fighting with Mason Rudolph during a game against Pittsburgh. For their first 9 games of the season, they have one of the toughest schedules in the NFL (only we had a tougher one) and they end up 3-6 at the end of it with 5 games against teams that won 10 or more games and only two games against teams with losing records (Jets and Broncos who finished 7-9 in 2019). They played 4 division winners and two wildcard teams. Other than the Jets and Broncos, only other non-playoff team they played was the Rams.In that 3-9 stretch, he hands eventual MVP and All-Pro Lamar Jackson-lead Baltimore one of their two losses that season (spanks them 40-25 actually) and also beats Josh Allen's Bills with a game-winning 4th quarter comeback drive to score a TD in the final two minutes of that game.

Pick any other guy on the list, toss them onto those two Browns teams to be the starting QB. Tell me which one ends up with a winning record with that kind of coaching turnover and team turmoil (keep in mind, of the losses those two seasons there's only three or four that can be directly pinned on Mayfield's play and interceptions). I'm thinking at best they come out about the same as Mayfield in the win-loss column. Hurts and Goff probably out of football or playing as a backup somewhere. Love and Stroud likely have similar career paths to Mayfield and Tua's likely either retired, dead or mentally diminished from concussions playing behind that Browns o-line. Wilson's definitely retired and people talking more about his SB being a product of the Legion of Boom than his play than they do now.

Mind you, still not saying Mayfield's the greatest ever or even in the Hall of Fame/Hall of Very Good but he's better than some folks are giving him credit for and some of these other guys being held up as better than him really aren't.

We've been spoiled by the prior era/generation of QBs. We're in a new era where most of the qbs are good, not great. Not seeing multiple all-time great QBs at the same time the way we did in the early 2000's with Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Farve and Brees along with the likes of Warner, Roethlisberger, Newton, Ryan, and Rivers.

[Bootz]

I'm seeing a bunch of guys who don't have losing records.

Lol, who cares about their W/L records? Matt Stafford's stats are far and away better than just about any QB over the last 16 years, and he has a losing record, 103-113-1. His PR and QBR alone say he's elite, and should be considered a top-5 or so QB at this time. Ditto his TD/INT ratio. His overall stats say he's a HoFer.

His W/L record is a product of playing for one of the worst franchises and some of the worst coaches in NFL history for 12 years of his 16-year career, that consistently sported some of the worst defenses in the league for most of that time.

I mean, Stafford is a textbook example of the truism, "football is the ultimate team sport." No QB is going to have a winning record without a ton of help from his coaches, teammates, defense, STs.

Hell, Mahomes hasn't carried the Chiefs to Ws for two seasons now. The defense, and in several playoff games, the STs have. Anyone with eyes can see that.

So glad you mentioned this.

Matt Stafford has a career QB rating of 91.1. Thats lower than the following guys.

Aaron Rodgers-102.9
Patrick Mahomes-102.5
Lamar Jackson-100.8
Joe Burrow-100.1
Russell Wilson-100
Tua- 98.2
Kirk Cousins- 98.1
Dak Prescott-98.1
Justin Herbert-96.1
Jared Goff- 94.7
Kyler Murray- 92.9
Derek Carr- 92.9
Josh Allen-92.8
Jalen Hurts-92.8

Baker falls below Stafford's at 90.0.

Stafford also has a 1.98 to 1 TD to INT ratio.

That's lower than the following guys.

Aaron Rodgers- 4.39 to 1
Patrick Mahomes- 3.20 to 1
Lamar Jackson- 3.17 to 1
Russell Wilson- 3.16 to 1
Joe Burrow- 3.02 to 1
Justin Herbert- 2.95 to 1
Dak Prescott- 2.60 to 1
Kirk Cousins- 2.41 to 1
Derek Carr- 2.30 to 1
Tua- 2.29 to 1
Jared Goff- 2.25 to 1
Josh Allen- 2.23 to 1
Kyler Murray- 2.12 to 1
Jalen Hurts- 2.05 to 1
Gardner Minshew- 2.00 to 1


Baker falls below Stafford's at 1.86 to 1.


So if Stafford's numbers say he's an elite Hall of Famer, then ALL of these guys who best him in career QB rating, TD to INT ratio, and even though you discount it, winning percentage are Hall of Famers too and better than him, right? Or do you wanna move the goal posts a little further?

[Grahamburn]

Takes a special kind of person to post something and then tell everyone it was click bait. Thats when you know you have no credibility, everyone else knows you have no credibility, you know that everyone else knows you have no credibility and you still don't care.

Dude, what are you going on about right now?

@Sooner06 made an incredible post refuting his entire argument in here so he shifted gears to attacking you instead of addressing his incredible post. Standard.

Then, once it’s been proven that Baker is a top 10 QB at minimum by the numbers, he shifts to “any QB who has to have a scaled down (whatever that means) offense can’t be top 10.”

Or, W/L record. Or, Baker’s career numbers instead of his 30 games in a Bucs’ uniform. Maybe I’ll post Baker’s stats from his Heisman season at Oklahoma?! Lol.

Pathetic.

[Buc2]

Bootz be Bootzing and y'all are gobbling up that bait.

[Bootz]

Bootz be Bootzing and y'all are gobbling up that bait.

I keep forgetting that the relationship most everyone here has with the truth is fickle at best. People will tell the truth when it benefits them. Facts are facts though and denying them doesn’t make you any more knowledgeable.

And speaking of gobbling, happy Thanksgiving everyone

[Buc2]

Bootz be Bootzing and y'all are gobbling up that bait.

I keep forgetting that the relationship most everyone here has with the truth is fickle at best. People will tell the truth when it benefits them. Facts are facts though and denying them doesn’t make you any more knowledgeable.

And speaking of gobbling, happy Thanksgiving everyone

And a Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

[Ken]

Any QB that has to have the offense scaled down to save him from himself isn't top 10. Ever. Sorry.

Then a lot of your top 10s need to come off the board, heh.

[Selmon Rules]

Bootz be Bootzing and y'all are gobbling up that bait.

I keep forgetting that the relationship most everyone here has with the truth is fickle at best. People will tell the truth when it benefits them. Facts are facts though and denying them doesn’t make you any more knowledgeable.

And speaking of gobbling, happy Thanksgiving everyone

Haven't posted this nugget in a while but being wrong about something isn't a lie and while you didn't use the word "lie" this time, it is a normal part of your posts. Don't be that guy.

And happy Thanksgiving to you and yours

[Bootz]

I keep forgetting that the relationship most everyone here has with the truth is fickle at best. People will tell the truth when it benefits them. Facts are facts though and denying them doesn’t make you any more knowledgeable.

And speaking of gobbling, happy Thanksgiving everyone

Haven't posted this nugget in a while but being wrong about something isn't a lie and while you didn't use the word "lie" this time, it is a normal part of your posts. Don't be that guy.

And happy Thanksgiving to you and yours

Fine then. @Sooner06 was grossly misinformed.

[Grahamburn]

Grossly misinformed about what? Rankings are inherently based on opinion.

You rank Baker “mid tier,” whatever that means. 15th? Based on entire body of work, seemingly. Ok. You’re entitled to feel that way.

Others would rank him higher based on his tenure as a Buc.

Nobody is wrong or lying or misinformed.

[Bootz]

Grossly misinformed about what? Rankings are inherently based on opinion.

You rank Baker “mid tier,” whatever that means. 15th? Based on entire body of work, seemingly. Ok. You’re entitled to feel that way.

Others would rank him higher based on his tenure as a Buc.

Nobody is wrong or lying or misinformed.

That's true.

However you must've missed Sooner's post about statistics being used as the measuring stick. Namely QB rating and TD to INT ratio. It's a few posts up and you're a big boy. So you can read it.

[Backside]

Idk how you can argue with someone who thinks their version of reality is the objective truth and the way he will argue against you is to say that your version of the truth does not match up with his. That’s not going to go anywhere productive.


Happy Thanksgiving All

[Grahamburn]

Idk how you can argue with someone who thinks their version of reality is the objective truth and the way he will argue against you is to say that your version of the truth does not match up with his. That’s not going to go anywhere productive.


Happy Thanksgiving All

Just killing time while the bird roasts. Happy Thanksgiving, Bucs’ Friends!!

[Bootz]

Idk how you can argue with someone who thinks their version of reality is the objective truth and the way he will argue against you is to say that your version of the truth does not match up with his. That’s not going to go anywhere productive.


Happy Thanksgiving All

This is how.

Matt Stafford's stats are far and away better than just about any QB over the last 16 years, and His PR and QBR alone say he's elite, and should be considered a top-5 or so QB at this time. Ditto his TD/INT ratio. His overall stats say he's a HoFer.

If you're refuting this or what the numbers are, how can you possibly be operating on reality?

[Sooner06]

Lol, "Tua is better than Baker . . ."


Uh huh. Sure looked like it tonight, right Bootz? lol.

[Bootz]

Lol, "Tua is better than Baker . . ."


Uh huh. Sure looked like it tonight, right Bootz? lol.

37/46(80%) 365 yards 2 TD passes 114.6 passer rating.

Baker put up numbers like this?

This statement confirms you didn't watch this game at all. And if you did then you have no clue what you're seeing.

[Pirate Life]

37/46(80%) 365 yards 2 TD passes 114.6 passer rating.

Baker put up numbers like this?

This statement confirms you didn't watch this game at all. And if you did then you have no clue what you're seeing.

Yes.

1) 24/30, 289 yards 4 TDs 146.4 rating

2) 22/28 (78.5%) 381 yards 4 TDs 158.3 rating (against the same GB team last year in Lambeau, first ever opposing QB to get a perfect passer rating there, Bucs also won the game unlike the Dolphins)

3) 26/35 (74.9%) 283 yards 2 TDs 116.7 rating

4) 21/30 (70%) 265 yards 2 TDs 119.4 rating

5) 25/32 (78.13%) 246 yards 3 TDs 116.9 rating

6) 26/34 (76.47%) 317 yards 1 TD 114.5 rating

7) 24/28 (85.71%) 230 yards 2 TDs 127.7 rating

8) 23/32 (71.88%) 305 yards 2 TDs 122.5 rating

9) 27/32 (84.38%) 297 yards 2 TDs 126.2 rating

10) 25/33 (75.76%) 334 yards 4 TDs 147.0 rating

I was going to stop at ten, but here's a bonus one: 22/28 (78.57) 297 yards 5 TDs 135.6 rating.

[Bootz]

37/46(80%) 365 yards 2 TD passes 114.6 passer rating.

Baker put up numbers like this?

This statement confirms you didn't watch this game at all. And if you did then you have no clue what you're seeing.

Yes.

1) 24/30, 289 yards 4 TDs 146.4 rating

2) 22/28 (78.5%) 381 yards 4 TDs 158.3 rating (against the same GB team last year in Lambeau, first ever opposing QB to get a perfect passer rating there, Bucs also won the game unlike the Dolphins)

3) 26/35 (74.9%) 283 yards 2 TDs 116.7 rating

4) 21/30 (70%) 265 yards 2 TDs 119.4 rating

5) 25/32 (78.13%) 246 yards 3 TDs 116.9 rating

6) 26/34 (76.47%) 317 yards 1 TD 114.5 rating

7) 24/28 (85.71%) 230 yards 2 TDs 127.7 rating

8) 23/32 (71.88%) 305 yards 2 TDs 122.5 rating

9) 27/32 (84.38%) 297 yards 2 TDs 126.2 rating

10) 25/33 (75.76%) 334 yards 4 TDs 147.0 rating

I was going to stop at ten, but here's a bonus one: 22/28 (78.57) 297 yards 5 TDs 135.6 rating.

OH! Career numbers. Thats easy.

Yes, Tua is better than Baker.

Passer rating:

Tua- 98.6
Baker- 90.0

Yards/game

Tua- 240.0
Baker- 231.3

Completion%

Tua- 67.7
Baker- 63.1

TD to INT ratio

Tua- 2.29 to 1
Baker- 1.86 to 1

Yards/attempt

Tua- 7.7
Baker- 7.2


This would've been much easier than cherry picking a few games.

Unfortunately, per the parameters set, wins and losses are not QB stats and are therfore disqualified from being factored in.

Lol, who cares about their W/L records?

[Pirate Life]

Yes.

1) 24/30, 289 yards 4 TDs 146.4 rating

2) 22/28 (78.5%) 381 yards 4 TDs 158.3 rating (against the same GB team last year in Lambeau, first ever opposing QB to get a perfect passer rating there, Bucs also won the game unlike the Dolphins)

3) 26/35 (74.9%) 283 yards 2 TDs 116.7 rating

4) 21/30 (70%) 265 yards 2 TDs 119.4 rating

5) 25/32 (78.13%) 246 yards 3 TDs 116.9 rating

6) 26/34 (76.47%) 317 yards 1 TD 114.5 rating

7) 24/28 (85.71%) 230 yards 2 TDs 127.7 rating

8) 23/32 (71.88%) 305 yards 2 TDs 122.5 rating

9) 27/32 (84.38%) 297 yards 2 TDs 126.2 rating

10) 25/33 (75.76%) 334 yards 4 TDs 147.0 rating

I was going to stop at ten, but here's a bonus one: 22/28 (78.57) 297 yards 5 TDs 135.6 rating.

OH! Career numbers. Thats easy.

Yes, Tua is better than Baker.

Passer rating:

Tua- 98.6
Baker- 90.0

Yards/game

Tua- 240.0
Baker- 231.3

Completion%

Tua- 67.7
Baker- 63.1

TD to INT ratio

Tua- 2.29 to 1
Baker- 1.86 to 1

Yards/attempt

Tua- 7.7
Baker- 7.2


This would've been much easier than cherry picking a few games.

Unfortunately, per the parameters set, wins and losses are not QB stats and are therfore disqualified from being factored in.

Lol, who cares about their W/L records?

You mentioned nothing about career numbers in your post. Just game numbers. Careful you don't get a hernia moving the goal posts there kiddo.

[Bootz]

OH! Career numbers. Thats easy.

Yes, Tua is better than Baker.

Passer rating:

Tua- 98.6
Baker- 90.0

Yards/game

Tua- 240.0
Baker- 231.3

Completion%

Tua- 67.7
Baker- 63.1

TD to INT ratio

Tua- 2.29 to 1
Baker- 1.86 to 1

Yards/attempt

Tua- 7.7
Baker- 7.2


This would've been much easier than cherry picking a few games.

Unfortunately, per the parameters set, wins and losses are not QB stats and are therfore disqualified from being factored in.

You mentioned nothing about career numbers in your post. Just game numbers. Careful you don't get a hernia moving the goal posts there kiddo.

That makes zero sense. Can’t have a career without playing games. But at least you admit that you responded with cherry picked data.

Carry on.

[Grahamburn]

Round and round we go.

Looking forward to extending him for a couple more years this coming off-season.

[Bootz]

Round and round we go.

Looking forward to extending him for a couple more years this coming off-season.

You're so predictable. Can't come up with an answer so you deflect and change the subject.

You would've gotten eaten alive on the old boards.

[Selmon Rules]

Haven't posted this nugget in a while but being wrong about something isn't a lie and while you didn't use the word "lie" this time, it is a normal part of your posts. Don't be that guy.

And happy Thanksgiving to you and yours

Fine then. @Sooner06 was grossly misinformed.

Liar

[Pirate Life]

You mentioned nothing about career numbers in your post. Just game numbers. Careful you don't get a hernia moving the goal posts there kiddo.

That makes zero sense. Can’t have a career without playing games. But at least you admit that you responded with cherry picked data.

Carry on.

Nope, apples to apples. You asked if Mayfield can put up numbers like Tua did yesterday. Took a 5 minute google search to destroy your point, and practically on queue you do the Bootz shuffle to move the goal posts rather than admit you were wrong on Mayfield having games like that.

It’s Black Friday, trusses may be on sale?