The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

[Grahamburn]

Listened to the Training Camp Special on NFL Radio (Sirius/XM), about the Bucs yesterday (I believe it initially aired on Tuesday). Anyone else hear it? I thought it was very encouraging. There were interviews with Mayfield, a completely likeable guy... and I do like him, I just don't think he's a good QB. Also interviews with Licht, Bowles, Wirfs, White, & Winfield. Between the lines, here's what I heard...

From Licht... he almost got fired after the 2019 season.
From Licht, Bowles, and White... Tucker is "a guy", Irving is "the backup", and White will have the same role.
From Mayfield & White... expect a lot more motion and 3-wide sets with McMillan and I believe Palmer will have a similar role.
From Bowles & Winfield... the secondary is going to be hit and miss from week to week.
From Wirfs... the OLine is getting better week to week, but right now, might not be as good as last year.
From everyone (not Winfield), they're not upset Canales found a new job.

I think a lot of people wanted Licht fired. Patience is a virtue.
RB looks deep.
Excited about the motion.
I'd agree on the secondary. Concerned.
Don't know how the line couldn't be better than last year?
Happy for Canales. Excited for Coen.

[CannonFire]

I don't think that's either... it's an opinion where I'm reading between the lines. For example, when the GM, HC, and starting RB agree on something (I'll quote Rachaad White), "We're going to be doing a lot of motion out there. I feel sorry for Mike and Chris being old guys [chuckling with hosts], having to move around a lot out there." From Bowles "It's nice seeing the guys out there again [referencing Evans and Godwin], being more active along the line." A Wirfs comment, "I'm really impressed with Mack (referencing McMillan), and seeing how well the offense moves when he's out there with Mike and Chris on the other side."

From those quotes, I hear: Our offense will be more deceptive to the defense (more motion), and that McMillan is the #3 lining up outside with Evans on the other wing with Godwin in the slot on Evans' side. I also hear, from Bowles, that this is something he's glad to see, because we weren't doing that with Canales as the OC.

I don't think that's realism or homerism or anything else. Someone may have a different opinion. Coaches and players never come out say exactly what they mean and they never trash someone who isn't there anymore... unless it needed to be called out.

Well, obviously, you had the benefit of actually hearing all this. I only had the blurbs you posted to go by. The 2 come off totally different.

Sorry, there's no file I can upload for you to hear it. If someone has the time and to transcribe the 1+ hour show, great. Otherwise, I'm simply giving a snip-it of what I heard. I thought it was rather positive. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt as not coming off as an ass, but you're making it a bit hard.

[CannonFire]

Listened to the Training Camp Special on NFL Radio (Sirius/XM), about the Bucs yesterday (I believe it initially aired on Tuesday). Anyone else hear it? I thought it was very encouraging. There were interviews with Mayfield, a completely likeable guy... and I do like him, I just don't think he's a good QB. Also interviews with Licht, Bowles, Wirfs, White, & Winfield. Between the lines, here's what I heard...

From Licht... he almost got fired after the 2019 season.
From Licht, Bowles, and White... Tucker is "a guy", Irving is "the backup", and White will have the same role.
From Mayfield & White... expect a lot more motion and 3-wide sets with McMillan and I believe Palmer will have a similar role.
From Bowles & Winfield... the secondary is going to be hit and miss from week to week.
From Wirfs... the OLine is getting better week to week, but right now, might not be as good as last year.
From everyone (not Winfield), they're not upset Canales found a new job.

I think a lot of people wanted Licht fired. Patience is a virtue.
RB looks deep.
Excited about the motion.
I'd agree on the secondary. Concerned.
Don't know how the line couldn't be better than last year?
Happy for Canales. Excited for Coen.

They way Wirfs made it sound is that the pass blocking is still fine, it's the run blocking that's coming along, just slowly, because it's new to everyone. He said there's improvement everyday, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and not blowing smoke, it sounds like he's saying that there'll be rough patches early, but he expects them to be ironed out over the course of the season... it'll just take time.

As for Canales, I'm glad he's gone. I think he did some things well, but many bad. That's the tone I got from the interviews as well.

[Grahamburn]

I think a lot of people wanted Licht fired. Patience is a virtue.
RB looks deep.
Excited about the motion.
I'd agree on the secondary. Concerned.
Don't know how the line couldn't be better than last year?
Happy for Canales. Excited for Coen.

They way Wirfs made it sound is that the pass blocking is still fine, it's the run blocking that's coming along, just slowly, because it's new to everyone. He said there's improvement everyday, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and not blowing smoke, it sounds like he's saying that there'll be rough patches early, but he expects them to be ironed out over the course of the season... it'll just take time.

As for Canales, I'm glad he's gone. I think he did some things well, but many bad. That's the tone I got from the interviews as well.

Ahh. Understanding the scheme better. Got it.

[Buc2]

Well, obviously, you had the benefit of actually hearing all this. I only had the blurbs you posted to go by. The 2 come off totally different.

Sorry, there's no file I can upload for you to hear it. If someone has the time and to transcribe the 1+ hour show, great. Otherwise, I'm simply giving a snip-it of what I heard. I thought it was rather positive. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt as not coming off as an ass, but you're making it a bit hard.

Seriously, I wasn't trying to be an ass.

My quick read of what you wrote was misinterpreted is all. It sounded fairly conservative to me, as in not hyping the team.

[Central_Buc]

I think a lot of people wanted Licht fired. Patience is a virtue.
RB looks deep.
Excited about the motion.
I'd agree on the secondary. Concerned.
Don't know how the line couldn't be better than last year?
Happy for Canales. Excited for Coen.

They way Wirfs made it sound is that the pass blocking is still fine, it's the run blocking that's coming along, just slowly, because it's new to everyone. He said there's improvement everyday, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and not blowing smoke, it sounds like he's saying that there'll be rough patches early, but he expects them to be ironed out over the course of the season... it'll just take time.

As for Canales, I'm glad he's gone. I think he did some things well, but many bad. That's the tone I got from the interviews as well.

It's because Canales was a rookie, he would have ironed those things out if he stayed a OC.

Now I think he committed Career suicide not just by jumping into a HC too quick but arguably taking on the worst job.

[Doooshnzl]

Cade Otton per PFF-

Receiving: #41 TE
Blocking: #48 TE
#21 TE in rec yards
#19 TE in fantasy

NOTHING about Cade Otton shows he is anything more than a generic, below average TE. His stats are below average, his PFF ratings are below average. After this years draft TE is now the weakest position on our entire roster.

Form an offensive scheme that plays to our strengths (strong WRs and 3 serviceable RBs)

But #19 in fantasy! So there's that...

[Sdbucs]

Cade Otton per PFF-

Receiving: #41 TE
Blocking: #48 TE
#21 TE in rec yards
#19 TE in fantasy

NOTHING about Cade Otton shows he is anything more than a generic, below average TE. His stats are below average, his PFF ratings are below average. After this years draft TE is now the weakest position on our entire roster.

Form an offensive scheme that plays to our strengths (strong WRs and 3 serviceable RBs)

But #19 in fantasy! So there's that...

I mean it's a decent litmus test...

Sam LaPorta, Evan Engram, Travis Kelce, T.J. Hockenson, George Kittle, David Njoku, Cole Kmet, Trey McBride, Jake Ferguson, Taysom Hill, Dalton Schultz, Dalton Kincaid, Mark Andrews, Kyle Pitts, Dallas Goedert, Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, Cade Otton

Basically every relevant TE in the league is somewhere on that list before Cade

[CannonFire]

They way Wirfs made it sound is that the pass blocking is still fine, it's the run blocking that's coming along, just slowly, because it's new to everyone. He said there's improvement everyday, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and not blowing smoke, it sounds like he's saying that there'll be rough patches early, but he expects them to be ironed out over the course of the season... it'll just take time.

As for Canales, I'm glad he's gone. I think he did some things well, but many bad. That's the tone I got from the interviews as well.

It's because Canales was a rookie, he would have ironed those things out if he stayed a OC.

Now I think he committed Career suicide not just by jumping into a HC too quick but arguably taking on the worst job.

It's possible you're right about Canales, I don't think that's far fetched to believe that, as it's reasonable. I got the idea though from the interviews that the organization doesn't believe it. Doesn't mean they're right, of course.

I definitely think you're correct with that second part. I kind of think that's what the team was kind of saying too... maybe intimating that Canales was too stubborn. But that's me saying that, not them.

[Central_Buc]

It's because Canales was a rookie, he would have ironed those things out if he stayed a OC.

Now I think he committed Career suicide not just by jumping into a HC too quick but arguably taking on the worst job.

It's possible you're right about Canales, I don't think that's far fetched to believe that, as it's reasonable. I got the idea though from the interviews that the organization doesn't believe it. Doesn't mean they're right, of course.

I definitely think you're correct with that second part. I kind of think that's what the team was kind of saying too... maybe intimating that Canales was too stubborn. But that's me saying that, not them.

Also in the offseason last year, I think we had trouble attracting free agent OC iirc because of the unknown situation at QB. So we sort of settled with a rookie in Canales. Also, iirc we hired him before we signed Baker (could be wrong there).

What I mean by settled is not that I didn't think he could make it as a future OC because he is intelligent enough in that position, but this is a veteran team that still imo has a window. Having a rookie for an OC was kind of a mismatch and I think the reason we looked inconsistent last year.

I feel Liam Coen with the experience he brings is a much better fit and more suited to what we need more than Canales, even if Canales showed progress this year coming.

Again, we'll see. We still have 0 respect from the national media (like last year misguided, their 3 win predictions were a joke).

Baker and everyone else will have to prove the doubters wrong again.

Atlanta may be signing some big names but the thing we have that they don't right now is team chemistry and continuity.

I know you will laugh at me but I think the NFC South will be one of the best divisions this year with 3 teams getting in (New Orleans barely gets in, I'll say at 9-8)

[mdb1958]

But #19 in fantasy! So there's that...

I mean it's a decent litmus test...

Sam LaPorta, Evan Engram, Travis Kelce, T.J. Hockenson, George Kittle, David Njoku, Cole Kmet, Trey McBride, Jake Ferguson, Taysom Hill, Dalton Schultz, Dalton Kincaid, Mark Andrews, Kyle Pitts, Dallas Goedert, Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, Cade Otton

Basically every relevant TE in the league is somewhere on that list before Cade

There has been a boatload of TE movement in the NFL the last little while - kinda seems like other teams are way more dissatisfied

[Doctor]

I don't care how good he is compared to other TEs. I care if he can do what this offense needs him to do so they can score points and win game.

Ken Dilger is a SB champion.

[Sdbucs]

I don't care how good he is compared to other TEs. I care if he can do what this offense needs him to do so they can score points and win game.

Ken Dilger is a SB champion.

Seeing as we have a pretty average starting RB and are a pretty typical “great X WR, good WR2”, our offense needs another weapon to really fire on all cylinders. This would be found at TE, ideally.

But we have a pedestrian TE and so our offense has a hard ceiling unless we can get a freak 3rd WR, or get creative with RB use, or if Baker plays like Mahomes.

2 good WRs, an average QB, an average RB, and a below average TE is not a winning offense

[Doctor]

Did you learn nothing from decades of watching the pats? The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

While more is always better, I disagree with the notion that a lack of talent will hold back this offense. There's plenty of talent.

[Grahamburn]

I don't care how good he is compared to other TEs. I care if he can do what this offense needs him to do so they can score points and win game.

Ken Dilger is a SB champion.

Seeing as we have a pretty average starting RB and are a pretty typical “great X WR, good WR2”, our offense needs another weapon to really fire on all cylinders. This would be found at TE, ideally.

But we have a pedestrian TE and so our offense has a hard ceiling unless we can get a freak 3rd WR, or get creative with RB use, or if Baker plays like Mahomes.

2 good WRs, an average QB, an average RB, and a below average TE is not a winning offense

How many teams have 3 freak WRs? We have a HOF WR1, great WR2, and an elite receiving RB. Early reports for McMillan are positive. Otton might just be average, but that’s plenty of weapons in the passing game.

[CannonFire]

It's possible you're right about Canales, I don't think that's far fetched to believe that, as it's reasonable. I got the idea though from the interviews that the organization doesn't believe it. Doesn't mean they're right, of course.

I definitely think you're correct with that second part. I kind of think that's what the team was kind of saying too... maybe intimating that Canales was too stubborn. But that's me saying that, not them.

Also in the offseason last year, I think we had trouble attracting free agent OC iirc because of the unknown situation at QB. So we sort of settled with a rookie in Canales. Also, iirc we hired him before we signed Baker (could be wrong there).

What I mean by settled is not that I didn't think he could make it as a future OC because he is intelligent enough in that position, but this is a veteran team that still imo has a window. Having a rookie for an OC was kind of a mismatch and I think the reason we looked inconsistent last year.

I feel Liam Coen with the experience he brings is a much better fit and more suited to what we need more than Canales, even if Canales showed progress this year coming.

Again, we'll see. We still have 0 respect from the national media (like last year misguided, their 3 win predictions were a joke).

Baker and everyone else will have to prove the doubters wrong again.

Atlanta may be signing some big names but the thing we have that they don't right now is team chemistry and continuity.

I know you will laugh at me but I think the NFC South will be one of the best divisions this year with 3 teams getting in (New Orleans barely gets in, I'll say at 9-8)

I think what you're saying about Canales sounds about right to me, on how things really went down. I'm very curious about how those interviews went down though. Seems odd that we needed to interview that many candidates.

Coen having more experience is much more promising than Canales. Lets just hope that he doesn't force a run game that doesn't exist and when he does run, it's not always up the middle when there's no hole. Sure, White should try to bounce those out, but he didn't always have much time to do that either.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about the media predictions, those are irrelevant, and it's about viewership. The people with the REAL pulse on things are in Vegas. Always follow the money. If money is involved, they're on top of it. Last year, they had the Bucs at 7.5, they weren't far off. That's what most have us at this this year. Caesar's has us at 8.5 and Draft Kings at 9.5. I guess you can say the expectation is 8. I think that's reasonable.

I think you could be right about the Saints. Our 3 non-common games are Detroit, San Fran, and Baltimore... theirs are Green Bay, LA Rams, and Cleveland. That's where the difference in our records will be I think.

[Primeminister]

Did you learn nothing from decades of watching the pats? The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

While more is always better, I disagree with the notion that a lack of talent will hold back this offense. There's plenty of talent.

However the sum of those parts always included some combination of Goat QB, Goat HC & Goat TE. That HC also happens to be one of the best defensive minds to ever coach.

I get your point, but we cannot ignore the parts the Pats were using in their sums.

[Grahamburn]

[Buc2]

That was a fun interview to watch. Kay Adams gets so tickled when she figures it out. lol

[Grahamburn]

I’d take him back in a heartbeat. Let’s go.

[CannonFire]

Did you learn nothing from decades of watching the pats? The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

While more is always better, I disagree with the notion that a lack of talent will hold back this offense. There's plenty of talent.

However the sum of those parts always included some combination of Goat QB, Goat HC & Goat TE. That HC also happens to be one of the best defensive minds to ever coach.

I get your point, but we cannot ignore the parts the Pats were using in their sums.

This is also true with the Chiefs right now. In both cases, they had good to great defenses, an elite HC, elite QB, and elite TE. When you put those 4 pieces together, the rest of your team can be average at best, and you'll still win multiple championships. Heck, with the team we had last year, if we had elite Tom Brady, I think we're in the Super Bowl. Not sure if we win, but we'd be there.

[Grahamburn]

Great teams compliment each other.