Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[Terry Tate]

Gerald McCoy announces retirement.

He was a damned good player for us. I know a lot of people think it's fashionable to hate on him but carried the entire D line for years. Him and LVD were the whole damned defense.

[MJW]

Feiler is a good add, our depth was concerning. I’d still double dip on OL this draft, but good to have a capable starter back in the fold even if he’s older- can still be a buffer until a young guy steps up.

It's an interesting signing. He's started 73 games in the league, most of them at left guard. I have a feeling we answered "yes" to questions about a shot to start. Considering how much better Leverett played the Goedeke last year, it makes me wonder if we're planning to kick Goedeke out to Right Tackle, or even move on from him.

[Cheb]

Feiler is a good add, our depth was concerning. I’d still double dip on OL this draft, but good to have a capable starter back in the fold even if he’s older- can still be a buffer until a young guy steps up.

It's an interesting signing. He's started 73 games in the league, most of them at left guard. I have a feeling we answered "yes" to questions about a shot to start. Considering how much better Leverett played the Goedeke last year, it makes me wonder if we're planning to kick Goedeke out to Right Tackle, or even move on from him.

As far as guard is concerned, I think the competition should be relatively open. We have Hainsey who played well at center but could probably start at guard and just lost his gig to Jensen, Geodeke with another year of seasoning who maybe will stop sucking, Stinnie coming off injury but was a solid Superbowl starter, and now Feiler who has a ton of experience at multiple spots.

Goedeke at RT makes some sense. He played his best ball last year at right tackle in the second Falcons game, and that's where he played in college. To be fair though, that's where Hainsey played in college, too. If we intend to move Wirfs to LT, Geodeke could absolutely be in the running for that starting job.

Our OL is a jumble right now but we have some solid pieces. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[real bucs fan]

Feiler is a good add, our depth was concerning. I’d still double dip on OL this draft, but good to have a capable starter back in the fold even if he’s older- can still be a buffer until a young guy steps up.

It's an interesting signing. He's started 73 games in the league, most of them at left guard. I have a feeling we answered "yes" to questions about a shot to start. Considering how much better Leverett played the Goedeke last year, it makes me wonder if we're planning to kick Goedeke out to Right Tackle, or even move on from him.

Just adding a guy who’s been a starter in the league makes him a good addition. Guys like Stinnie and Goedeke have like half a dozen starts between them.

[MJW]

It's an interesting signing. He's started 73 games in the league, most of them at left guard. I have a feeling we answered "yes" to questions about a shot to start. Considering how much better Leverett played the Goedeke last year, it makes me wonder if we're planning to kick Goedeke out to Right Tackle, or even move on from him.

Just adding a guy who’s been a starter in the league makes him a good addition. Guys like Stinnie and Goedeke have like half a dozen starts between them.

I agree. At worst veteran depth. It's a good signing.

I'll wait here for a certain poster to compare him to Logan Mankins and suggest that Licht is going to blow up his draft board now.

[mdb1958]

Feiler is a good add, our depth was concerning. I’d still double dip on OL this draft, but good to have a capable starter back in the fold even if he’s older- can still be a buffer until a young guy steps up.

It's an interesting signing. He's started 73 games in the league, most of them at left guard. I have a feeling we answered "yes" to questions about a shot to start. Considering how much better Leverett played the Goedeke last year, it makes me wonder if we're planning to kick Goedeke out to Right Tackle, or even move on from him.

Ourlads has Feiler as our starting RT.

[MJW]

It's an interesting signing. He's started 73 games in the league, most of them at left guard. I have a feeling we answered "yes" to questions about a shot to start. Considering how much better Leverett played the Goedeke last year, it makes me wonder if we're planning to kick Goedeke out to Right Tackle, or even move on from him.

Ourlads has Feiler as our starting RT.

That's jumping the gun IMHO. We haven't heard more than vague rumors about Wirfs moving over. I think it's on the table for someone like Darnell Wright or Dawand Jones. I don't know if Feiler is that guy.

[Doctor]

Nice improvement over Wells. Though that's not saying much. Could also play inside. A lot depends on how this draft falls.

[MJW]

Our OL is a jumble right now but we have some solid pieces. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

I think this sums it up well. Goedeke played inside last year, but was a college right tackle and has those measurables. Hainsey, same thing, but he played center after being a college RT (only now Jensen is back.) Feiler has played left guard and right tackle. Wirfs is the best RT in the league, and I would be tempted to try him on the left side, where we have nobody and where I think he could be even more valuable.

Obviously if we land a true LT in this draft, a lot of this falls into place. Wirfs stays at RT, and Feiler/Goedeke/Leverett/Stinnie and probably Hainsey battle it out for the two starting Guard spots. Hainsey can lose out but is likely safe because he can play center, which could leave those first four battling for three jobs.

Assuming we don't add a sure thing starter in the draft, I think this is the sanest group assuming health:

LT Tristan Wirfs / Justin Skule or Brandon Walton
LG Nick Leverett / Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie
C Ryan Jensen / Robert Hainsey
RG Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie / Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie
RT Matt Feiler / Robert Hainsey

Odd Men Out: Loser of the Walton vs Skule battle, John Molchon, possibly the loser of the Stinnie vs Goedeke battle.

That's just one permutation of course. Literally the only things we can say for sure right now is Tristan Wirfs will start at one tackle spot and Jensen will be the center.

[Redrum]

Our OL is a jumble right now but we have some solid pieces. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

I think this sums it up well. Goedeke played inside last year, but was a college right tackle and has those measurables. Hainsey, same thing, but he played center after being a college RT (only now Jensen is back.) Feiler has played left guard and right tackle. Wirfs is the best RT in the league, and I would be tempted to try him on the left side, where we have nobody and where I think he could be even more valuable.

Obviously if we land a true LT in this draft, a lot of this falls into place. Wirfs stays at RT, and Feiler/Goedeke/Leverett/Stinnie and probably Hainsey battle it out for the two starting Guard spots. Hainsey can lose out but is likely safe because he can play center, which could leave those first four battling for three jobs.

Assuming we don't add a sure thing starter in the draft, I think this is the sanest group assuming health:

LT Tristan Wirfs / Justin Skule or Brandon Walton
LG Nick Leverett / Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie
C Ryan Jensen / Robert Hainsey
RG Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie / Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie
RT Matt Feiler / Robert Hainsey

Odd Men Out: Loser of the Walton vs Skule battle, John Molchon, possibly the loser of the Stinnie vs Goedeke battle.

That's just one permutation of course. Literally the only things we can say for sure right now is Tristan Wirfs will start at one tackle spot and Hainsey will be the center.

I think that's a pretty solid group that will hopefully add two more quality players in a few weeks. I think a very good tackle will be there at 19. Even if our front is more talented than last year though I see them taking a step back statistically because Baker frequently doesn't get the ball out on time and plays hero ball. He also leaves the pocket before it has broken down creating sacks when they shouldn't have happened.

[njdungeoneer]

Feiler is a good signing as JL likes to do prior to the draft. Allows a possible trade back for a good return without committing very much.
I was surprised that so many thought that this signing was a bad idea for a poor player, he is an ok starting OLineman in the NFL. Not star material, but a decent plug and play OLineman.
This allows JL to at least have the appearance of the ability to move around in the draft, not just focused on a single position.

[real bucs fan]

Our OL is a jumble right now but we have some solid pieces. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

I think this sums it up well. Goedeke played inside last year, but was a college right tackle and has those measurables. Hainsey, same thing, but he played center after being a college RT (only now Jensen is back.) Feiler has played left guard and right tackle. Wirfs is the best RT in the league, and I would be tempted to try him on the left side, where we have nobody and where I think he could be even more valuable.

Obviously if we land a true LT in this draft, a lot of this falls into place. Wirfs stays at RT, and Feiler/Goedeke/Leverett/Stinnie and probably Hainsey battle it out for the two starting Guard spots. Hainsey can lose out but is likely safe because he can play center, which could leave those first four battling for three jobs.

Assuming we don't add a sure thing starter in the draft, I think this is the sanest group assuming health:

LT Tristan Wirfs / Justin Skule or Brandon Walton
LG Nick Leverett / Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie
C Ryan Jensen / Robert Hainsey
RG Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie / Luke Goedeke or Aaron Stinnie
RT Matt Feiler / Robert Hainsey

Odd Men Out: Loser of the Walton vs Skule battle, John Molchon, possibly the loser of the Stinnie vs Goedeke battle.

That's just one permutation of course. Literally the only things we can say for sure right now is Tristan Wirfs will start at one tackle spot and Jensen will be the center.

I’d also be tempted to move Wirfs to LT and see if he can do it. He’s one of those guys who might get elite money regardless, might as well see if he can protect the blindside. If he’s dominant there, you pay him whatever. If not you move him back to RT and sign him for less money than you would have otherwise.

[mdb1958]

Who would have the most upside with us Mazi Smith or Gervon Dexter?

[Buc2]

Who would have the most upside with us Mazi Smith or Gervon Dexter?

Based on these overviews, I’d have to say Smith has the most upside. Why?

Dexter is frequently slow off snap, which tends to have a domino effect on both his hands and positioning in a negative way. His size and traits help him make plays even after being blocked early in the rep, but he will need to improve his hand usage as a pro. He’s a limited pass rusher with below average quickness and rush skill but can get there eventually if the play extends. Dexter’s physical profile might be hard for teams to ignore, and he could become a more consistent performer in a 3-4 defense.

Dontari Poe might be the physical and athletic player comparison for Smith, but more consistency from Smith is needed before he finds the Pro Bowl, as Poe did twice in his career. Smith’s blend of size and quickness is rare. He can punch and control a base block with relative ease. However, he struggles to match the initial movement of move blockers, which diminishes his effectiveness. He has space-eating potential but needs to become more consistent at taking on double teams and securing his gap. Smith’s size and testing could give his draft slotting some juice but he’s more of a Day 2 talent with exciting upside than a plug-and-play starter.

[Naismith]

I'm basing this solely on Dane Brugler's draft guide, but I'd say Dexter seems like the better gamble for the Bucs.

STRENGTHS: Looks the part and is still filling out his enormous frame and wingspan ... athletic for his size with basketball feet and body control ... uses his flexibility to slither into gaps or flatten down the line ... flashes a violent arm-over rip move to clear the center ... able to uproot blockers when he attacks upward with leverage and drives his feet ... strong, balanced base versus the run ... extends his long arms to stand up and dispose blockers, making stops in the hole ... holds up well versus double teams and keeps his shoulders square to the line ... reads the backfield well, using different peek techniques once he engages blockers ... plays with urgency in the run game ... took on more of a leadership role in 2022 and is described as a “unifying presence” behind the scenes by his coaches (Dexter: “We learned to be great teammates.”) ... durable and played in all 38 games the last three seasons.

WEAKNESSES: Spotty snap anticipation and consistently the last to move out of his stance ... undeveloped counters with only average twitch in his upper body when attempting to shed ... too easily moved when he allows his pads to rise at contact ... needs to improve his positioning in tackle situations to be a more reliable finisher in small spaces ... flagged multiple times for roughing because of his tendency to put all his weight on the quarterback ... With his height and length, I expected to see more batted balls on his tape ... played a lot of snaps (averaged 52.5 defensive snaps per game in 2022) and would go half-speed at times ... unimpressive backfield production and didn’t reach double-digit tackles for loss in his career.

SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Florida, Dexter was primarily a 3-technique defensive tackle in co-defensive coordinator Sean Spencer’s four-man front, lining up everywhere from nose tackle to head up over the tackle. After giving up football to focus on basketball in middle school, he returned to the sport as a junior in high school and has shown incremental improvements over the last five years. Dexter carries his weight well with impressive foot quickness and pass rush potential, although you wish he had more backfield production to show for it. His impact can be traced to his ability to leverage – he is a very different player when he utilizes his long levers to put blockers on skates as a pass rusher or anchor, stack and work the point in the run game. Dexter must develop a more disciplined approach to turn the flashes into more consistent play, but he is an agile, coordinated big man who has yet to play his best football. He is a traits-based projection who can play up and down the line, which will interest both even and odd fronts.

[MJW]

I like Smith better FWIW. Dexter to me is an inferior version of what we expect to get out of Logan Hall. Smith is an inferior version of Vita Vea. I like the second option better, especially when it's so hard to find those squat, powerful D-Linemen who also have a little juice.

[Miller4Prez64]

Don’t want to put words in the man’s mouth, but this sounds like he’s talking about Devin White to me.

[Bootz]

Don’t want to put words in the man’s mouth, but this sounds like he’s talking about Devin White to me.

You're putting words in the man's mouth.

[Miller4Prez64]

Don’t want to put words in the man’s mouth, but this sounds like he’s talking about Devin White to me.

You're putting words in the man's mouth.

Didn’t say I wasn’t.

[Grahamburn]

Todd Bowles said it too. DW is the only one that seems to have an issue. Pretty easy to read these tea leaves.

[Miller4Prez64]

Todd Bowles said it too. DW is the only one that seems to have an issue. Pretty easy to read these tea leaves.

It’s not even just about the trade demand and wanting an excessive contract. Dude is literally on social media every week flirting with the Eagles and their players while being under contract here.

The only other person from the Super Bowl team that could maybe fit this bill was AB, but everyone knew what he was about and he’s been gone for a while now.

[Phantom]

For those who want to watch the Bucs

https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/nf ... sale-2023/

[Snake]

Don’t want to put words in the man’s mouth, but this sounds like he’s talking about Devin White to me.

Pretty pathetic. It was eons ago in nfl terms

[Grahamburn]

Don’t want to put words in the man’s mouth, but this sounds like he’s talking about Devin White to me.

Pretty pathetic. It was eons ago in nfl terms

What was? The Super Bowl? He didn't name names, but we all know who he's talking about. I wish they'd keep it in house, but DW is airing his grievances all over the media so the guys get asked about it.

[Doctor]

It's just business.

Both sides are taking their lessons learned from the Shaq situation. White ruptures his achilles this season no one in this thread will care about him. He has no real leverage so his only hope is some outside team comes to his rescue. Like the Eagles with a late first, have to think hard on that.

Ultimately White will probably get his $100M/5. I think OBP would actually be happy to give it to him, especially if he has the DPOY level year they believe he can. But why rush it? They have him for $11M, can tag him twice. All low risk should the worst occur.

Nothing crazy here just business sides playing the few moves they have. Most likely outcome is holding out through camp until fines and comes to play. Depending on how his year is going may extend mid season but most likely not until the offseason.

[Grahamburn]

Shaq played on the tag in 2020 after an impressive 2019 as a full time player. He could have held out or not signed it, but he played. He was all in.

Devin is only all in for himself now. He has zero leverage though. We all know the status of their contracts. Why air it out in the media or on twitter? Show up and play your ass off. You'll get your money. Play like you have the last two years and then sit out or whine? Good luck.

You have to wait until after the season. White's name is made almost solely on the fact that Bowles schemes up splash plays for him. If there's no Bowles here they'll let Devin walk.

[Miller4Prez64]

Giving Devin White a 5 year, 100 million dollar contract would be one the worst moves in franchise history.

[Deja Entendu]

For those who want to watch the Bucs

https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/nf ... sale-2023/

I keep seeing this mentioned: For the first time, NFL Sunday Ticket is broadly available without a satellite subscription.

I’ve had Sunday Ticket without a satellite subscription for years. I also paid $90-130 for it.

B.S.

[uscbucsfan1]

Ultimately White will probably get his $100M/5. I think OBP would actually be happy to give it to him, especially if he has the DPOY level year they believe he can. But why rush it? They have him for $11M, can tag him twice. All low risk should the worst occur.

There's no way you think he "probably gets $100M/5".

There's a middle ground in bashing him, saying we would be better off just dumping him, and believing he will probably tie the highest contract for an off-ball LB in the NFL.

He was terrible last year. He loafed often, he was terrible in coverage, and more than missing tackles, he missed assignments and run fits.

He'd have to be bizarro version of Devin White to get 15m per year.

[Miller4Prez64]

Ultimately White will probably get his $100M/5. I think OBP would actually be happy to give it to him, especially if he has the DPOY level year they believe he can. But why rush it? They have him for $11M, can tag him twice. All low risk should the worst occur.

There's no way you think he "probably gets $100M/5".

There's a middle ground in bashing him, saying we would be better off just dumping him, and believing he will probably tie the highest contract for an off-ball LB in the NFL.

He was terrible last year. He loafed often, he was terrible in coverage, and more than missing tackles, he missed assignments and run fits.

He'd have to be bizarro version of Devin White to get 15m per year.

Not only all of that, but we’ve actually developed a quality culture full of unselfish players that want to be here. Guys like Evans, Godwin, Shaq, Lavonte, etc have worked with the FO to keep the squad together and clearly have an appreciation for the team, city and fans. Hell, Jamel Dean just took a paycut to stay here. If we cave into Devin’s massive demands then guys in the locker room are going to start wondering why they are sacrificing when guys like Devin can get what they want with trade demands. Devin is literally flirting with Philly on social media any chance he gets, he doesn’t have that same appreciation for the Bucs the rest of the core has. It has a chance to ruin the culture that’s leftover from the Brady era.

That isn’t even going into how badly messed up our cap situation is going to be having to pay 20 million a year to an inconsistent inside linebacker with attitude and effort concerns. We need to just move him and move on, he’s not a irreplaceable player. Not a franchise cornerstone, he’s not worth this head ache.

[Redrum]

I'm a fan of Devin and bought his autograph after the Super Bowl but he's worth half of what he thinks he is. I think they should trade him if they can. If I'm Licht I'd extend AWJ or Wirfs to send a message. They also deserve it more. I like this guy's breakdown of his film.

[Cheb]

I am always about players getting paid... but come on now. It's not like Devin White isn't getting his bread. Devin is already making the sixth-most money for an off-ball backer this season, behind CJ Mosley, Shaq Leonard, Tremaine Edwards, Shaq Thompson, and Jerome Baker. White is going to make 11 million dollars this season, over six times the median lifetime earnings for Americans, for inconsistent play, his flashes of brilliance equaled by his whimpers of mediocrity, whether they be loafing in pursuit or getting dogwalked by offensive linemen on the reg or abused in pass coverage again and again and again.

Devin White isn't god's gift to linebacking, and if he insists that he is and needs to be paid as such, I wish him well.

[Grahamburn]

So we all know this. The FO knows this. Devin has to know what his inefficiencies are as well, right? Why come out and make these demands? We don’t know that he’s asking for $20M a year. He may not be.

It’s possible he just wants an extension and the Bucs aren’t even talking to his agent about one knowing they have the 5th year option AND a
tag. Appropriate, in my opinion, but could also be the reason for the rift. That’s my guess.

Personally, I think he should be thrilled with $11M this year and potentially a little raise in 2024.

[Doctor]

You can never really believe any twitter numbers. But I think it just gives you an idea.

Also, I think OBP isn't trying to take Shaq risks where they don't need to. They have massive leverage with this final $11M year, I can see them trying to squeeze DW into a lower "secure the bag now" type deal. DW then has to risk/bet on himself. And even if he goes on to win that bet and win DPOY and be awesome, they still can tag him. But he'll have far more leverage then than no.

I also think Devin and the rest are aware of his inefficiencies but of his upside too, which is how contracts are approached. It's a question of just how much upside. No one approaches a contract from a negative. If you're signing him at all it's because you think the 25 year old will be some level of great.

[Miller4Prez64]

I also wonder if Devin’s problems aren’t all money related. His constant flirting with the Eagles has me wondering if this is just as much about being a front runner as it is money. He may not want to be part of the post Brady era. Because if that’s where he wants to go they definitely aren’t paying him what he wants after the Hurts contract.

Regardless him constantly fawning over the Eagles and their players on Instagram with green hearts is just weird behavior. Of all freakin teams too.