2024 Coach hot seat

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Grahamburn
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

GreatTimes wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:43 pm How many Bucs wins this season would be enough to retain Bowles?
He has gone 8-9 with Tom Brady. 9-8 the next year. Now he's at 4-5 with a top 5 offense and sieve of a defense. He threw at least two chances to win games away this year with his game management idiocy. He needs to win 10 games and make the playoffs or they're canning him. They should regardless. We'll never win anything with him.

Honestly, I think with the cowardly crap he pulled on MNF this team is about to quit on him. I have.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by GreatTimes »

Bootz wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 2:16 pm
GreatTimes wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 2:13 pm
Do you think that Bowles will be retained is the Bucs only win 3 more games and end up 7-10?
Yes. You do too. Because teams don't (or shouldn't) make these firings in a vacuum.
I think that the Bucs retain Bowles with the caveat that Bowles hires a DC. Handling the HC and DC duties at the same time is asking too much of any HC.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

GreatTimes wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:23 pm
Bootz wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 2:16 pm

Yes. You do too. Because teams don't (or shouldn't) make these firings in a vacuum.
I think that the Bucs retain Bowles with the caveat that Bowles hires a DC. Handling the HC and DC duties at the same time is asking too much of any HC.
What HC duties is he good at?
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Four Verticals »

Grahamburn wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:45 pm
GreatTimes wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:23 pm
I think that the Bucs retain Bowles with the caveat that Bowles hires a DC. Handling the HC and DC duties at the same time is asking too much of any HC.
What HC duties is he good at?
His issues towards the ends of various games in itself should be cause to consider change. My vote would be for a change. I just don't think it's going to happen barring a collapse from now until the end of the season. As mentioned elsewhere...losses to the Panthers and Saints plus a couple of more might do it.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by CannonFire »

Grahamburn wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 3:53 pm
CannonFire wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:44 am

Not so sure about that either. Our deal with Mayfield is a way bigger issue for us than Jones' for the Giants. Like I said, the Giants can walk away from Jones at the end of the season and it costs them like $3M. That's nothing. If we walk away from Mayfield at the end of the season, it's something like a $25M hit. Even if we go another year and walk away after next season, its something like a $20M hit. On top of that, if he doesn't get a new deal before it expires, we're on the hook for anther $17M hit from the voidable years. At no point over the next 3 seasons will Mayfield hit our cap for as little as Jones will hit theirs. Doesn't mean any QB is better or worse than the other, just talking from a cap hit/finance perspective.
Baker's contract is a freaking steal. Man, you are delusional.
Is that all you do anymore.... argue against points that aren't being made? :lol:
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

CannonFire wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:40 am
Grahamburn wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 3:53 pm

Baker's contract is a freaking steal. Man, you are delusional.
Is that all you do anymore.... argue against points that aren't being made? :lol:
You kind of have to factor in the player’s performance don’t you think?

Bakers contract isn’t an issue at all. It’s an incredibly team friendly deal for a QB that’s playing extremely well.

Jones has played like ass for two years after getting his contract and the Giants will still have a $22M cap hit if they cut him after the season, which they should. That’s an issue.

Are we cutting Baker? No. In all likelihood he’ll get an extension after next year. There’s no “issue.”
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by MRM »

I guess Daboll will be the next to get canned, especially if they lose to the Panthers in Germany. If things continue to go south for the Raiders, I can see crazy cut Davis can Pierce as well even though this is his first year. That franchise will do anything.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Bootz »

MRM wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:56 am I guess Daboll will be the next to get canned, especially if they lose to the Panthers in Germany. If things continue to go south for the Raiders, I can see crazy cut Davis can Pierce as well even though this is his first year. That franchise will do anything.
Same with the Panthers and Canales
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by acmillis »

Bootz wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:59 am
MRM wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:56 am I guess Daboll will be the next to get canned, especially if they lose to the Panthers in Germany. If things continue to go south for the Raiders, I can see crazy cut Davis can Pierce as well even though this is his first year. That franchise will do anything.
Same with the Panthers and Canales
You think they'd cut bait that soon? Yikes, that'd pretty much be a "no for me dawg" if I was offered the CAR head coaching position in the future.

You trade away all of my good picks and I'm stuck with a bottom of the barrel qb and really, the worst roster in the league, and I get shit-canned mid-season for not walking on water...stay far away.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Cheb »

acmillis wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:10 am
Bootz wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:59 am

Same with the Panthers and Canales
You think they'd cut bait that soon? Yikes, that'd pretty much be a "no for me dawg" if I was offered the CAR head coaching position in the future.

You trade away all of my good picks and I'm stuck with a bottom of the barrel qb and really, the worst roster in the league, and I get shit-canned mid-season for not walking on water...stay far away.
I would happily lose every game of the Panthers season if their ownership gave me a multi-year contract for life-changing money, as would many.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Phantom »

Cheb wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:33 pm
acmillis wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:10 am
You think they'd cut bait that soon? Yikes, that'd pretty much be a "no for me dawg" if I was offered the CAR head coaching position in the future.

You trade away all of my good picks and I'm stuck with a bottom of the barrel qb and really, the worst roster in the league, and I get shit-canned mid-season for not walking on water...stay far away.
I would happily lose every game of the Panthers season if their ownership gave me a multi-year contract for life-changing money, as would many.

Yes, you still get paid even after being fired.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

Cheb wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:33 pm
acmillis wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:10 am
You think they'd cut bait that soon? Yikes, that'd pretty much be a "no for me dawg" if I was offered the CAR head coaching position in the future.

You trade away all of my good picks and I'm stuck with a bottom of the barrel qb and really, the worst roster in the league, and I get shit-canned mid-season for not walking on water...stay far away.
I would happily lose every game of the Panthers season if their ownership gave me a multi-year contract for life-changing money, as would many.
Sign me up for 6 years of pay for one year of work.

Canales isn’t getting fired.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Phantom »

Speaking of Bowles, who brought in the last two offensive coordinators? Bowles hired them, and the offense performed well, so he must have done something right, so he is not getting fired anytime soon He needs to address defense. This offseason, he should give up his play-calling duties and give it to someone else.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

Phantom wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:18 pm Speaking of Bowles, who brought in the last two offensive coordinators? Bowles hired them, and the offense performed well, so he must have done something right, so he is not getting fired anytime soon He needs to address defense. This offseason, he should give up his play-calling duties and give it to someone else.
I’ll give him some credit for Coen. But, Canales wasn’t anything special, and he was also probably the only guy willing to take the job.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by CannonFire »

Grahamburn wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:08 am
CannonFire wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:40 am

Is that all you do anymore.... argue against points that aren't being made? :lol:
You kind of have to factor in the player’s performance don’t you think?

Bakers contract isn’t an issue at all. It’s an incredibly team friendly deal for a QB that’s playing extremely well.

Jones has played like ass for two years after getting his contract and the Giants will still have a $22M cap hit if they cut him after the season, which they should. That’s an issue.

Are we cutting Baker? No. In all likelihood he’ll get an extension after next year. There’s no “issue.”
Are you still arguing against points not being made? :lol:
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

CannonFire wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 11:58 am
Grahamburn wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:08 am

You kind of have to factor in the player’s performance don’t you think?

Bakers contract isn’t an issue at all. It’s an incredibly team friendly deal for a QB that’s playing extremely well.

Jones has played like ass for two years after getting his contract and the Giants will still have a $22M cap hit if they cut him after the season, which they should. That’s an issue.

Are we cutting Baker? No. In all likelihood he’ll get an extension after next year. There’s no “issue.”
Are you still arguing against points not being made? :lol:
I just have missed it then. Whatever it was.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by CannonFire »

Grahamburn wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:17 pm
CannonFire wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 11:58 am

Are you still arguing against points not being made? :lol:
I just have missed it then. Whatever it was.
The point was a financial aspect, not a player/performance aspect.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Grahamburn »

CannonFire wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:38 am
Grahamburn wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:17 pm

I just have missed it then. Whatever it was.
The point was a financial aspect, not a player/performance aspect.
You did mention that in one of your points at the end of the post. The performance factor is pretty important though when comparing contracts.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

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Phantom wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:18 pm Speaking of Bowles, who brought in the last two offensive coordinators? Bowles hired them, and the offense performed well, so he must have done something right, so he is not getting fired anytime soon He needs to address defense. This offseason, he should give up his play-calling duties and give it to someone else.
Licht played a role in both Canales and Coen getting hired, Bowles and him both had a list of candidates and would discuss them. Licht also interviewed the candidates in both OC searches and made recommendations to Bowles. In the case of Coen, sounds like Licht's recommendation and Baker's input were key in Bowles' decision to hire him.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Bootz »

Sean McVay.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by CannonFire »

Grahamburn wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:41 am
CannonFire wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:38 am

The point was a financial aspect, not a player/performance aspect.
You did mention that in one of your points at the end of the post. The performance factor is pretty important though when comparing contracts.
Kind of, but not really. There's dead cap money at the end of his deal in voidable years. He has a lot of base pay money in the next 2. I believe the contract was set up to extend Mayfield after the season which means more money kicked down the road. This is what I'm talking about with the contract. We're going to be kicking the can down the road and I don't believe there will be an end to his contract any time soon.

With that.... I think that any competent QB can come in and perform at a winning level with the WR's, the OLine, and system we have. I see no need to pay any QB who isn't a "Franchise" QB a lot of money. I believe we will re-work Mayfield's contract at the end of the season to cover the voidable years money and basically make us an equivilent of Dallas/Dak or Jacksonville/Lawrence or Miami/Tua. Overpaying a guy because "Who else are you going to get". Minnesota answered that question didn't they? We did too, last year, didn't we. The answer is "any competent free agent".
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Doctor »

McVay had his starters in at the end of the game down 11. Does that put him on the hot seat? Unclear on what the rules for outrage over this are.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Bootz »

Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:15 pm McVay had his starters in at the end of the game down 11. Does that put him on the hot seat? Unclear on what the rules for outrage over this are.
He's also in charge of the offense and that unit has floundered this year as well. Going by IABL logic, he should be fired ASAP since he's not coaching well enough.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by 13F11B »

Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:19 pm
Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:15 pm McVay had his starters in at the end of the game down 11. Does that put him on the hot seat? Unclear on what the rules for outrage over this are.
He's also in charge of the offense and that unit has floundered this year as well. Going by IABL logic, he should be fired ASAP since he's not coaching well enough.
Has it been a steady three year decline? That is the data I am looking at. Not a 1 year decline.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Bootz »

13F11B wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:30 pm
Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:19 pm

He's also in charge of the offense and that unit has floundered this year as well. Going by IABL logic, he should be fired ASAP since he's not coaching well enough.
Has it been a steady three year decline? That is the data I am looking at. Not a 1 year decline.
Since 2022 including this season the Rams are 19-24 with 1 Wildcard appearance and loss, so 0-1 in the playoffs. 5-12 in 2022, 10-7 past season, 4-5 currently.

By comparison, the Bucs are 21-23 with 2 division titles and a 1-2 playoff record.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by 13F11B »

Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:09 pm
13F11B wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:30 pm

Has it been a steady three year decline? That is the data I am looking at. Not a 1 year decline.
Since 2022 including this season the Rams are 19-24 with 1 Wildcard appearance and loss, so 0-1 in the playoffs. 5-12 in 2022, 10-7 past season, 4-5 currently.

By comparison, the Bucs are 21-23 with 2 division titles and a 1-2 playoff record.
How has his offense done? I am more concerned with the defense being the issue for Bowles than the overall record.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Bootz »

13F11B wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 6:00 pm
Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:09 pm

Since 2022 including this season the Rams are 19-24 with 1 Wildcard appearance and loss, so 0-1 in the playoffs. 5-12 in 2022, 10-7 past season, 4-5 currently.

By comparison, the Bucs are 21-23 with 2 division titles and a 1-2 playoff record.
How has his offense done? I am more concerned with the defense being the issue for Bowles than the overall record.
Ah, so winning doesn't actually matter.

I knew I could get someone to admit it.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by 13F11B »

Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 6:11 pm
13F11B wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 6:00 pm

How has his offense done? I am more concerned with the defense being the issue for Bowles than the overall record.
Ah, so winning doesn't actually matter.

I knew I could get someone to admit it.
Winning does matter. However, if you are not winning one might look at how the team is progressing. In the case of McVay I would look at the offense since he designs it and calls the plays. In the case of Bowles I would look at the defense. That was the initial point. Then to avoid that you brought the record up.

How have McVay's offense done. Has it gotten worse each year like Bowles' defense?
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Bootz »

13F11B wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:49 pm
Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 6:11 pm

Ah, so winning doesn't actually matter.

I knew I could get someone to admit it.
Winning does matter. However, if you are not winning one might look at how the team is progressing. In the case of McVay I would look at the offense since he designs it and calls the plays. In the case of Bowles I would look at the defense. That was the initial point. Then to avoid that you brought the record up.

How have McVay's offense done. Has it gotten worse each year like Bowles' defense?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

My God! People are going out on a limb to embarrass themselves this week.

Let's get this straight. When a team isn't winning, one might look at how a team is progressing....This isn't fantasy football, kiddo. If you're not winning games you're not progressing. This has to be the absolute dumbest thing you've ever said here and you said a lot of dumb shit so that's saying something. What do you think each team is trying to do each year? Get their Madden rating up.

You sound stupid as fuck.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

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I would rather have McVay here There’s a talk he may retire soon to start a family.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Phantom »

The Rams’ decline after the Super Bowl win is due to injuries.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Phantom »

It’s the coach’s responsibility to have the team ready to win, no matter how many players got hurt. We need a coach like that.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by 13F11B »

Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:57 pm
13F11B wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:49 pm

Winning does matter. However, if you are not winning one might look at how the team is progressing. In the case of McVay I would look at the offense since he designs it and calls the plays. In the case of Bowles I would look at the defense. That was the initial point. Then to avoid that you brought the record up.

How have McVay's offense done. Has it gotten worse each year like Bowles' defense?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

My God! People are going out on a limb to embarrass themselves this week.

Let's get this straight. When a team isn't winning, one might look at how a team is progressing....This isn't fantasy football, kiddo. If you're not winning games you're not progressing. This has to be the absolute dumbest thing you've ever said here and you said a lot of dumb shit so that's saying something. What do you think each team is trying to do each year? Get their Madden rating up.

You sound stupid as fuck.
There is no issue on my end. The only issue is your comprehension.

A team could have a losing record, but getting better each week...

or a team could have a losing record and be getting worse each week...

See the difference. Maybe? The point is you want to defend Bowles. You will babble bullshit until you drown in alphabet soup before giving any other viewpoint any consideration.

In the case of determining if Bowles should be kept or not I want to see a trend in how his defense is doing (since he controls that) and a trend in the team overall (since he is the HC).

It the case of McVay I would want to see how his offense is doing (since he controls that) and a trend in the overall team (since he is the HC).

I would evaluate them both to come up with an overall picture. This all started because I asked how McVay's offense was doing. You have avoided that data like a wolf ugly date. Is that because it does not support your point?
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by MRM »

Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:15 pm McVay had his starters in at the end of the game down 11. Does that put him on the hot seat? Unclear on what the rules for outrage over this are.
That was with 3 or 4 minutes left in the game, not less than a minute like Bowles had.
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Re: 2024 Coach hot seat

Post by Snake »

The coaching industry has essentially been strip mined aggressively for the past five seasons. Twenty-three head coaches have come and gone since ’22 alone. Here’s a look at the firings by season:

2020: 5
2021: 7
2022: 10
2023: 5
2024: 8

This year, there are already two head coach openings: the Saints and the Jets. Based on conversations with those in the coaching industry, estimates are there will be between seven and 10 total vacancies for this year, depending on how the season ends.
There are college coaches who desperately want to come to the NFL, but I do not see there being an appetite for college coaches at the NFL level—despite the success of Jim Harbaugh with the Chargers this year. Even though USC coach Lincoln Riley’s name came up earlier in the year, as well as Ohio State’s Ryan Day, I have not heard the same level of excitement around those names as the season wore on. I have not been alerted to any seriousness regarding a Deion Sanders and Jerry Jones reunion.
The 27 top candidates (I chose some interesting names instead of posting all 27)
Bill Belichick, former head coach, New England Patriots

Still the most entertaining and discussed figure this cycle, the legendary Bill Belichick is believed by some people to be a prime candidate in the head coaching world and by others a prime candidate for the media world. Just like last year at this time, the industry is divided on the eight-time Super Bowl winner (six as a head coach), who will enter next season at age 73.
Liam Coen, offensive coordinator, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

“He’s on the right track,” Mark Whipple, a highly respected NFL quarterbacks coach, and longtime college head coach and offensive coordinator told me about Liam Coen.

“He’s a great listener. He has a good rapport with Baker Mayfield. He always took great notes. The first year he coached quarterbacks [under me at UMass], that guy went on to be All-MAC. He ran the meetings. He’s attentive, detail-oriented. He left me and went to Maine, did a great job with the quarterback there and got in with the right group in the NFL.

“Most importantly, Liam played the position and he understands these things as it relates to the quarterback.”

Despite the fact that Coen’s Buccaneers lost their top three receiving targets to injury, Tampa Bay has maintained a top-third offense in the NFL and has challenged the likes of the 49ers, Chiefs, Falcons and Ravens during Tampa’s recent losing streak.
Brian Flores, defensive coordinator, Minnesota Vikings

“With me, he was coming off being head coach of the Miami Dolphins, and he did not care what his role was,” Mike Tomlin, who hired Brian Flores as a senior defensive assistant in 2022, told me. “He just wanted to be a component of what we were doing. He wanted to put his hand in the pile. That speaks to the humility of the man, and his love and relationship to the game. And, his love of the vocation of coaching.

“He came in and did everything we asked him to do. He was always willing to add additional insight that his experience and capabilities provided, but he was not heavy-handed with that. I was just really impressed with how he managed the opportunity that he had here and what he brought to us. Being around him day to day and getting to know him as a football man and a football coach … I feel the same way about him as I felt about Raheem Morris when I talked to people regarding his candidacy. I thought Raheem was the best coaching candidate in the world without a head coaching job, and I feel the same way about Flo in this cycle.”

Flores began the season on a torrid stretch, wiping out some of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. As of the publication of this piece, Minnesota is still the best defense in the NFL in terms of EPA per play allowed. Minnesota is first in turnovers, and in the top three across the board in all major rushing defense categories.
Ben Johnson, offensive coordinator, Detroit Lions

We first introduced you to Ben Johnson in 2022, labeling him with the up-and-coming-McVay-like tag. Since then, Johnson has gone on to become one of the most sought-after offensive coaches in each of the past two cycles, before deciding to return to the Lions in 2023 to round out his skill set and then again in ’24 after having felt the sting of a playoff loss to the 49ers. It’s a matter of when and not if for Johnson.

“Ben has grown the most of any coach I’ve ever been around,” Dan Campbell tells me. “He’s always been a very creative play-caller. He has great vision every week for how to attack our opponents, but most importantly he knows how to communicate that vision to our players in the room with him. He’s confident, competent and above all, competitive. The players on offense respond to him because of it.”
Josh McCown, quarterbacks coach, Minnesota Vikings

Josh McCown has already had head coaching interviews, which makes his detour to Minnesota all the more interesting. Working with his former mentee Sam Darnold—a relationship I profiled back in 2018—McCown continues to establish his coaching bona fides, which should eventually lead to a head coaching seat. It would not be surprising to see McCown factor heavily into the interview process or play-calling offensive coordinator conversation during this cycle.
Robert Saleh, offensive consultant, Green Bay Packers

After Robert Saleh’s dismissal as head coach of the Jets, his former team bottomed out. Here’s a handy graph to show the difference between Saleh’s Jets and an interim-led team. Saleh had the Jets one game out of first place and, behind the scenes, was instrumental in clearing out much of the organizational discord that quickly returned upon his ouster. While the likely path for Saleh is back through a defensive coordinator job, the dichotomy between the Jets he was present for (a team competitive with Zach Wilson) and the Jets he left (a team with Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams getting waxed by the Cardinals) could be worth a sit down.
Arthur Smith, offensive coordinator, Pittsburgh Steelers

Arthur Smith, the former Atlanta head coach, was 21–30 in three years with the Falcons during a time of roster tumult. The team had to sit on massive dead-cap hits following the losses of program stalwarts such as Matt Ryan and Julio Jones. Smith’s quarterback for a majority of his time was former University of Cincinnati standout Desmond Ridder. Now in Pittsburgh, Smith is at the helm of a dramatically improved Steelers offense that has won games with both Justin Fields and Russell Wilson.
Mike Vrabel, personnel consultant, Cleveland Browns

The Browns have struggled mightily in 2024, though Mike Vrabel, the longtime Titans head coach, seemed to be a valuable addition to the staff. Anecdotally, Vrabel has garnered the respect of coaches in that building and is one of the hotter names on the cycle, especially given the way Tennessee has struggled in his absence. Vrabel is a strong presence and would be a valuable addition, especially for a franchise struggling to garner an identity.
https://www.si.com/nfl/future-nfl-head- ... es-johnson
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