Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Phantom]

Now who says no to this?

Contract Terms: 5 yr(s) / $275,000,000
Average Salary: $55,000,000
Signing Bonus: $37,500,000
GTD at Sign: $142,000,000
Total GTD: $200,000,000

Same AAV. 1 additional year. Lower signing bonus, more total guarantees.

@Bootz (yes, you read that right, I said YOU!) @acmillis @CannonFire @Buc2


The rest of the Bucs fans? Hell yeah!

[Sooner06]

The last two drives by Baker in that game were incredible. And the fact that he had just 36 hours to prep, and that McVay didn't call a single play off that wristband just makes the story that much more unreal.

You know who wouldn't have been able to do that? Cousins would've had a meltdown. Not Dak. Not Tua, nor Carr, purdy, TL, Hurts, Goff, maybe not even Herberts.

[Pirate Life]

"Force the situation" by signing the league leader in TD passes the last two years to an $8M prove it contract and then the best value QB contract in the NFL? Lulz. That's one way to put it. Most would call it a good problem to have.

Most would also say if you’re using TD passes as your barometer when it comes to contract negotiations that you have no clue what you’re doing. Additionally, using your logic you just answered your “why is Burrow seen as elite” question. He puts up pretty stats.

Best value QB contract right now is by far Jalen Hurts. 11th highest paid QB is the reigning SB MVP. That SHOULD be your barometer. Not stats.

No, it shouldn’t: Joe Flacco and Nick Foles were also SB MVPs in recent years. Hell, Eli was named SB MVP twice. Wins and one game awards/performances should not a a barometer for contracts or who is a good player. Timmy Smith ring a bell?

[Doctor]

"Force the situation" by signing the league leader in TD passes the last two years to an $8M prove it contract and then the best value QB contract in the NFL? Lulz. That's one way to put it. Most would call it a good problem to have.

Oh no, Licht, please stop...

[Bootz]

Now who says no to this?

Contract Terms: 5 yr(s) / $275,000,000
Average Salary: $55,000,000
Signing Bonus: $37,500,000
GTD at Sign: $142,000,000
Total GTD: $200,000,000

Same AAV. 1 additional year. Lower signing bonus, more total guarantees.

@Bootz (yes, you read that right, I said YOU!) @acmillis @CannonFire @Buc2


The rest of the Bucs fans? Hell yeah!

Glitching again. Thought you said YES!

[Bootz]

Most would also say if you’re using TD passes as your barometer when it comes to contract negotiations that you have no clue what you’re doing. Additionally, using your logic you just answered your “why is Burrow seen as elite” question. He puts up pretty stats.

Best value QB contract right now is by far Jalen Hurts. 11th highest paid QB is the reigning SB MVP. That SHOULD be your barometer. Not stats.

No, it shouldn’t: Joe Flacco and Nick Foles were also SB MVPs in recent years. Hell, Eli was named SB MVP twice. Wins and one game awards/performances should not a a barometer for contracts or who is a good player. Timmy Smith ring a bell?

So TD passes is the ultimate goal? Got it.

[Grahamburn]

"Force the situation" by signing the league leader in TD passes the last two years to an $8M prove it contract and then the best value QB contract in the NFL? Lulz. That's one way to put it. Most would call it a good problem to have.

Oh no, Licht, please stop...

Stroking my ego too much?

[Grahamburn]

No, it shouldn’t: Joe Flacco and Nick Foles were also SB MVPs in recent years. Hell, Eli was named SB MVP twice. Wins and one game awards/performances should not a a barometer for contracts or who is a good player. Timmy Smith ring a bell?

So TD passes is the ultimate goal? Got it.

1st in TD passes. 2nd in yards. 3rd in completions. The ultimate goal? No. Of course not. But, there’s a level of evaluation for QBs based on statistics and the validity of those stats that you don’t seem to like to acknowledge. Ultimately, they’re kind of important to a QBs’ success toward achieving the ultimate goal.

But, you know that. You just can’t help yourself.

[Bootz]

So TD passes is the ultimate goal? Got it.

1st in TD passes. 2nd in yards. 3rd in completions. The ultimate goal? No. Of course not. But, there’s a level of evaluation for QBs based on statistics and the validity of those stats that you don’t seem to like to acknowledge. Ultimately, they’re kind of important to a QBs’ success toward achieving the ultimate goal.

But, you know that. You just can’t help yourself.

So Baker is better than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson?

[Grahamburn]

1st in TD passes. 2nd in yards. 3rd in completions. The ultimate goal? No. Of course not. But, there’s a level of evaluation for QBs based on statistics and the validity of those stats that you don’t seem to like to acknowledge. Ultimately, they’re kind of important to a QBs’ success toward achieving the ultimate goal.

But, you know that. You just can’t help yourself.

So Baker is better than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson?

Well, what is better? All 3 of those QBs led top 5 offenses last year. Each of them are better at certain aspects of the job than others.

He’s not the running threat they are, but he’s a better passer than both.

None have a championship. All 3 have been close leading their teams to multiple playoff appearances.

Baker has been as close to beating Mahomes in the playoffs as either of them.

They all came in the same draft. Is Baker worse because he started his career in the worst organization?

What is he now in Tampa?

Interesting things to think about.

[Bootz]

So Baker is better than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson?

Well, what is better? All 3 of those QBs led top 5 offenses last year. Each of them are better at certain aspects of the job than others.

He’s not the running threat they are, but he’s a better passer than both.

None have a championship. All 3 have been close leading their teams to multiple playoff appearances.

Baker has been as close to beating Mahomes in the playoffs as either of them.

They all came in the same draft. Is Baker worse because he started his career in the worst organization?

What is he now in Tampa?

Interesting things to think about.

You know what I'm asking.

Are you saying Baker Mayfield >>> Lamar Jackson/Josh Allen.

[Pirate Life]

No, it shouldn’t: Joe Flacco and Nick Foles were also SB MVPs in recent years. Hell, Eli was named SB MVP twice. Wins and one game awards/performances should not a a barometer for contracts or who is a good player. Timmy Smith ring a bell?

So TD passes is the ultimate goal? Got it.

Nah, didn't make that argument and never have. Gotta stop having knee-jerk reactions like that and try to... well, Bootz up the discussion by putting opinions on people.

Ultimate goal should be how they perform on the field, how they run the offense and how consistent they are, toss in a few good intangibles as well - almost all of the great/really good QBs separate from the pack based on stuff like leadership, processing speed or chemistry with their teammates.The ones with pure physical talents that can take over a game or two (Vick in his day, Herbert now - Jeff George going back further) usually end up getting paid more than they should because their stats tend to not equate to team success.

Better argument to make for Hurts would be his leadership qualities. He's not the best passer and he's good with his legs. He's actually a better argument for CannonFire's logic of why he doesn't think Mayfield is the best fit. He's got a great team around him and some of the other QBs at his level would likely perform better than him on the same team. Put Hurts on another team, say the Ravens I'm not sure he does as well as Jackson would do with the Eagles if they swap places. But Jackson likely does better than any other QB you'd swap him with imo.

[CannonFire]

So TD passes is the ultimate goal? Got it.

Nah, didn't make that argument and never have. Gotta stop having knee-jerk reactions like that and try to... well, Bootz up the discussion by putting opinions on people.

Ultimate goal should be how they perform on the field, how they run the offense and how consistent they are, toss in a few good intangibles as well - almost all of the great/really good QBs separate from the pack based on stuff like leadership, processing speed or chemistry with their teammates.The ones with pure physical talents that can take over a game or two (Vick in his day, Herbert now - Jeff George going back further) usually end up getting paid more than they should because their stats tend to not equate to team success.

Better argument to make for Hurts would be his leadership qualities. He's not the best passer and he's good with his legs. He's actually a better argument for CannonFire's logic of why he doesn't think Mayfield is the best fit. He's got a great team around him and some of the other QBs at his level would likely perform better than him on the same team. Put Hurts on another team, say the Ravens I'm not sure he does as well as Jackson would do with the Eagles if they swap places. But Jackson likely does better than any other QB you'd swap him with imo.

Yeah, I've made those arguments... you just never read them because you get triggered in the first two sentences of a post and go on a rant. You still think I believe Mayfield stinks and want the team to lose.

[Grahamburn]

Well, what is better? All 3 of those QBs led top 5 offenses last year. Each of them are better at certain aspects of the job than others.

He’s not the running threat they are, but he’s a better passer than both.

None have a championship. All 3 have been close leading their teams to multiple playoff appearances.

Baker has been as close to beating Mahomes in the playoffs as either of them.

They all came in the same draft. Is Baker worse because he started his career in the worst organization?

What is he now in Tampa?

Interesting things to think about.

You know what I'm asking.

Are you saying Baker Mayfield >>> Lamar Jackson/Josh Allen.

I don’t, really? Not being obtuse.

If the NFL were redrafted today no doubt Allen and Jackson would certainly go before Baker 100% of the time. If that’s what you mean?

But, that’s a hypothetical.

I imagine they’d go before Hurts too and he’s been to the Super Bowl twice. Goff has the most regular season wins the last two years.

So, what’s “better?”

It’s a team sport. I think the team can win with Baker. You try to build your team around your QB. We can argue about it until he retires I guess, because I think we’ve found our QB.

Is there anyone who thinks he’s not going to be here for the next 5+ years?

[Buc2]

@Bootz (yes, you read that right, I said YOU!) @acmillis @CannonFire @Buc2


The rest of the Bucs fans? Hell yeah!

Glitching again. Thought you said YES!

And what's with the other posters he @'d???

[Bootz]

Glitching again. Thought you said YES!

And what's with the other posters he @'d???

No clue. Just came out of the blue.

[__Chef__]

... Is our team really better than last year? I don't think so...

Yes. Substantially.

The guys who were impressive rookies last year aren't finding their way this year. The guys who are about to be impressive rookies this year haven't hit the field yet.

Add to it Reddick, and yes, I think this team is ready to make a run when everyone else is sleeping on us.

[Grahamburn]

... Is our team really better than last year? I don't think so...

Yes. Substantially.

The guys who were impressive rookies last year aren't finding their way this year. The guys who are about to be impressive rookies this year haven't hit the field yet.

Add to it Reddick, and yes, I think this team is ready to make a run when everyone else is sleeping on us.

I'd feel more confident if Wirfs and Godwin were healthy to start the season.

[__Chef__]

Yes. Substantially.

The guys who were impressive rookies last year aren't finding their way this year. The guys who are about to be impressive rookies this year haven't hit the field yet.

Add to it Reddick, and yes, I think this team is ready to make a run when everyone else is sleeping on us.

I'd feel more confident if Wirfs and Godwin were healthy to start the season.

As long as they're healthy by the end of the season, that's what counts.

[Pirate Life]

Nah, didn't make that argument and never have. Gotta stop having knee-jerk reactions like that and try to... well, Bootz up the discussion by putting opinions on people.

Ultimate goal should be how they perform on the field, how they run the offense and how consistent they are, toss in a few good intangibles as well - almost all of the great/really good QBs separate from the pack based on stuff like leadership, processing speed or chemistry with their teammates.The ones with pure physical talents that can take over a game or two (Vick in his day, Herbert now - Jeff George going back further) usually end up getting paid more than they should because their stats tend to not equate to team success.

Better argument to make for Hurts would be his leadership qualities. He's not the best passer and he's good with his legs. He's actually a better argument for CannonFire's logic of why he doesn't think Mayfield is the best fit. He's got a great team around him and some of the other QBs at his level would likely perform better than him on the same team. Put Hurts on another team, say the Ravens I'm not sure he does as well as Jackson would do with the Eagles if they swap places. But Jackson likely does better than any other QB you'd swap him with imo.

Yeah, I've made those arguments... you just never read them because you get triggered in the first two sentences of a post and go on a rant. You still think I believe Mayfield stinks and want the team to lose.

Nope, I don’t think that and have never said that. I think Mayfield is better than you give him credit for and that he’s better than a lot of guys you say are on par or better than him. Also that you move the goal post trying to defend your position. His contract didn’t become a sticking point for you until this off season for instance.

[CannonFire]

... Is our team really better than last year? I don't think so...

Yes. Substantially.

The guys who were impressive rookies last year aren't finding their way this year. The guys who are about to be impressive rookies this year haven't hit the field yet.

Add to it Reddick, and yes, I think this team is ready to make a run when everyone else is sleeping on us.

Substantially?

Not every second year player improves. Not every rookie pans out. It's just as possible that every player you're talking about, proves to be a net neutral... meaning, for every one that improves, one regresses to negate the other. So, I'm clearly not saying they all take a step back. Not every rookie is even going to have a chance to make an impact... and if he does, he'll be replacing a starter who likely got hurt, and likely won't play at the level of the guy he's replacing.

Does Reddick make our team better? If so, how much? He's not a super star. They guy literally had only 1 standout year. Let's look at him this way... he was a first round pick that didn't get his 5th year option picked up. A team signed him to a 1-year prove-it deal, they let him walk without re-signing him. Another team gives a 1-year prove-it deal and he had a monster surrounded by elite players. They paid him. The following year, he played at the level to which they initially signed him and thought... 'you know, I think that a fluke', so they traded him. He has a hissy fit and misses the first 7 weeks of the season, and then over the final 10 games, had essentially the worst year of his career. This is a person that you trust to upgrade our defense?

[CannonFire]

Yeah, I've made those arguments... you just never read them because you get triggered in the first two sentences of a post and go on a rant. You still think I believe Mayfield stinks and want the team to lose.

Nope, I don’t think that and have never said that. I think Mayfield is better than you give him credit for and that he’s better than a lot of guys you say are on par or better than him. Also that you move the goal post trying to defend your position. His contract didn’t become a sticking point for you until this off season for instance.

Ok, my bad. I grouped you in with the crybabies who didn't like when I said there are 5 elite QB's and listed 20 guys in alphabetical order, who were the same guy. They said I was afraid to rank them. I gave them a list I knew would trigger them.

My goal posts never changed because I always said I think Mayfield is an adequate started... made better by his teammates (not the other way around). I think that's the same almost every QB. That's never changed... ever.

The contract has always been a sticking point of mine since he re-signed after the 2023 season. I knew that deal was structure (high back-end w/voidable years), was going to need to be restructured. I don't like that for guys who aren't difference makers. I've never waivered off of that. I don't know what goal posts you think I'm moving.

My biggest issue has ALWAYS been with Licht, not Mayfield. I just think people overrate Mayfield.

[CannonFire]

"Force the situation" by signing the league leader in TD passes the last two years to an $8M prove it contract and then the best value QB contract in the NFL? Lulz. That's one way to put it. Most would call it a good problem to have.

No, by giving him a contract that was backend loaded with voidable years, then after a re-structure, backloaded it more... with another voidable year. If he really believed in Mayfield, after the 2023, he should've given him a 5 year deal. The 2023 season wasn't anything special. It was another "average" year, not much different that his two best years in Cleveland.

[Grahamburn]

"Force the situation" by signing the league leader in TD passes the last two years to an $8M prove it contract and then the best value QB contract in the NFL? Lulz. That's one way to put it. Most would call it a good problem to have.

No, by giving him a contract that was backend loaded with voidable years, then after a re-structure, backloaded it more... with another voidable year. If he really believed in Mayfield, after the 2023, he should've given him a 5 year deal. The 2023 season wasn't anything special. It was another "average" year, not much different that his two best years in Cleveland.

I just don't feel like you're realistic in your assessment of how this QB contract world works. All these guys are getting voidable years, restructures, and back-loaded contracts. Literally all of them. Nobody is signing the contracts you're suggesting with 5 year Revis deals where nothing is guaranteed beyond year one. "I'd give him this," well, that's great, but no QB is taking that, and I think that's why people think you "hate" Mayfield. Because what you suggest is simply not realistic.

The "if you really believe in him" contract will be after this season. The contract after 2023 was basically them "drafting" Mayfield. The guarantees on that deal were similar to those of a first round pick. Then he proved it in 2024. If he has another good/great season he's getting a huge extension here.

[__Chef__]

Not every rookie is even going to have a chance to make an impact... and if he does, he'll be replacing a starter who likely got hurt...

This isn't necessarily true. Sometimes a rookie beats out a starter. I don't think Dean is some lockdown impact corner out there. I think chances are high that he will be replaced by Morrison. Zyon is okay, but again, if Parrish keeps pushing, he might force playing time on the outside as well. Having corners that are ballhawks improves our entire team. Having Tykee Smith (a ballhawk) playing next to AWJ (a ballhawk) will also improve our secondary.

Linebackers with SVD is a vast improvement in coverage over last year.

Edge having Yaya build on what he started along with Braswell coming on late, and Reddick, we may actually get pressure without having to blitz. That being the case helps our coverage which again should see a vast improvement in turnovers this year.

Switching to the other side of the ball, Egbuka will fill in easily for Godwin allowing Mike and JMac to continue the show from last year with the secret weapon Tez adding pressure to defenses. Ditto the RB room with Josh Williams.

OL ... anyone want to bet against Graham Barton being a better Center this year than last? Ditto Mauch and Goedeke.

Yes, this top 5 offense from last year got better. The defense got better. This team is ready to compete for a title.

[Sooner06]

Nope, I don’t think that and have never said that. I think Mayfield is better than you give him credit for and that he’s better than a lot of guys you say are on par or better than him. Also that you move the goal post trying to defend your position. His contract didn’t become a sticking point for you until this off season for instance.

Ok, my bad. I grouped you in with the crybabies who didn't like when I said there are 5 elite QB's and listed 20 guys in alphabetical order, who were the same guy. They said I was afraid to rank them. I gave them a list I knew would trigger them.

My goal posts never changed because I always said I think Mayfield is an adequate started... made better by his teammates (not the other way around). I think that's the same almost every QB. That's never changed... ever.

The contract has always been a sticking point of mine since he re-signed after the 2023 season. I knew that deal was structure (high back-end w/voidable years), was going to need to be restructured. I don't like that for guys who aren't difference makers. I've never waivered off of that. I don't know what goal posts you think I'm moving.

My biggest issue has ALWAYS been with Licht, not Mayfield. I just think people overrate Mayfield.

It's just a really poor premise. "There are 25 starting QBs in the league that are better than Baker."

No, there really isn't. What you've been saying is that there are 12 QBs in each Conference that are better than Baker. Which is pure nonsense. Don't even have to make an argument. Just go down the list of starting QBs in each Conference.

You can't reasonably find 12 QBs in either Conference that are legitimately better than Mayfield. you can't even find 9 in each conference.

Even if we use a very biased approach (just QBR/total yards/W/L/whatever) at worst, Baker is still landing somewhere around 16th-17th. If you use anything remotely logical or get into more nuanced statistical analyses (compare/contrast multiple multi-faceted metrics: PFF/QBR/EPA/DVOA, etc.), Baker ends up between 8th to 12th, according to those same metrics. Best case scenario, also skewed but now in favor of Baker, he's the 5th-6th best QB in the NFL going into the 2025 season.


But there's absolutely no data/evidence/metrics that could possibly rank Mayfield at 25th or below. it's just simply not a thing.

[Doctor]

Also what's behind door #2. You better give me a pretty fucking incredible alternative before I pivot from Baker. And none of this mystery box savior bullshit.

[Grahamburn]

Also what's behind door #2. You better give me a pretty fucking incredible alternative before I pivot from Baker. And none of this mystery box savior bullshit.

You can have a boat or what’s in the mystery box.

I’ll take the mystery box! It could be a boat!

[__Chef__]

Also what's behind door #2. You better give me a pretty fucking incredible alternative before I pivot from Baker. And none of this mystery box savior bullshit.

It really boils down to this.

Nobody significantly better than Baker is on the market, nor will they be. Our miracle of Tom Brady coming here essentially just to prove a point won't be happening again anytime soon.

The Browns very own moving on from Baker decision should be a lesson which doesn't need first hand experience to learn something from.

[Doctor]

We have plenty of our own first hand experiences too. No need to borrow from the Browns.

[Bootz]

.........Is anyone...ANYONE seriously talking about moving on from Baker? Or are you 2 yet again playing victim when there's no perpetrator.

[acmillis]

Yeah, but also, I don’t want to get to the point where it’s “anybody but Winston” again. No, we’re not close to that, but could we look at options that could be better? Of course, that’s the job if any GM.

[Central_Buc]

Yeah, but also, I don’t want to get to the point where it’s “anybody but Winston” again. No, we’re not close to that, but could we look at options that could be better? Of course, that’s the job if any GM.

Yeah but Licht answers to Rocky er I mean Grizzard.

[Cheb]

.........Is anyone...ANYONE seriously talking about moving on from Baker? Or are you 2 yet again playing victim when there's no perpetrator.

Nope.

Unless Baker is in the Epstein files, he's our quarterback for the present and will be for the future. I think the likelihood of him getting another extension with us is incredibly high barring injury.

[Doctor]

.........Is anyone...ANYONE seriously talking about moving on from Baker? Or are you 2 yet again playing victim when there's no perpetrator.

Just some casuals. No one who actually matters.