Chris Godwin Thread

[Swashbuckler]

Brady
Evans
Godwin
Gage
Gronk
1st round WR
2nd round RB
3rd round iOL

I think we should get a better swing tackle in the event Wirfs or Smith miss an extended period of time. I'm all for overkill on offense.

Not to shit on the most beautiful parade we've had since the Lombardi was tossed down Channelside, but we just lost the best guard we've had in years. Shaq Mason was a HUGE acquisition. Good. Now get more linemen. We NEED to do this

All the talent in the world on offense means nothing unless the big nasty bastards are blocking for Brady or the RB



Defensive line too. MOAR gladiators

[Doctor]

Yes. $25M is the new going rate for a #1 WR.
A great #2 is $20M easy.

So yeah, it just depends on how you see Godwin. With no injury, I have no doubt someone see's him as a #1.

Three years,
60million.

EDIT: 40 mill guaranteed.

I guess the Bucs and Godwin himself feel he is a #2.

Not really, we used the tag and put pressure on Godwin, he split the difference. A smart and common choice.

1. He gets the goat for at least 1/3 of it, maybe 2/3 of it, maybe all of it.

2. He is already tagged for this year. He shallows getting 80% of the current $25M market value for a 2nd and 3rd year, he can lock up a fat guarantee today protecting him against a down year or reinjuring.

3. He gets to hit the market again in his prime for that "super max" FA contract.

4. He reworks his cap hit to help the team be in better cap shape, sign better players, help get him more rings.

Overall a great win win deal for all sides and another home run by Licht.

Why do people act like giving Godwin $19M is breaking the cap? Also, wtf you think he's making in the open market? If not for his injury I would've expected him to be pushing $25M/yr easy. Getting him at 19 is a bargain.

Also it gives us a ton of leverage in further negotiations. We can extend him further on a tag and OBP would have the leverage. Godwin knows he's hurt, he could come in and have a down year and be looking at "prove it" deals next year anyway. Worst still if he gets hurt again. When faced with that or an even moderately reasonable extension, it's not hard to see where the pressure will be.

Very much a reasonable extension that put enough pressure.

How is that more likely? We can only negotiate with him until July 15. If we tag him a third time he will get 27.62 million on the third tag. That good money. If we did tag him a third time, he will never re-sign with us. Please explain how this will coerce him. It did nothing to coerce Kirk Cousins.

Coerce is an interesting word choice.

Cousins took the gamble and won. Great for him. Doesn't stop making it a gamble.

The onus is on him now. If he wants to cash in now we're his only option, if not he has to risk it all in another year. He isn't going to sit it out. Which means he's at risk of going out there and getting hurt again or playing but having a down year.
We've just become his only ticket for cashing in big, for sure, today.

He cashed in. And will again. Smart moves.

[Snake]

I hope Chris retires after this contract with some of his brain still intact. A trend I’d like to see established for guys who get really rich before 30 in the league.

[kaimaru]

@Doctor I literally could have posted a string of a dozen emails where you said he was pushing for 25 million minimum and 20 flat is "splitting the difference" but please double down on you 12 to 15 shitty takes on why we couldn't get a deal done.

The truth is he he believed he was worth 25 mill. He wouldn't have taken a 20% paycut over 3 years. I pushed you on this more than once you pounded your chest multiple times. Just take the loss.

[acmillis]

I guess the Bucs and Godwin himself feel he is a #2.

Not really, we used the tag and put pressure on Godwin, he split the difference. A smart and common choice.

1. He gets the goat for at least 1/3 of it, maybe 2/3 of it, maybe all of it.

2. He is already tagged for this year. He shallows getting 80% of the current $25M market value for a 2nd and 3rd year, he can lock up a fat guarantee today protecting him against a down year or reinjuring.

3. He gets to hit the market again in his prime for that "super max" FA contract.

4. He reworks his cap hit to help the team be in better cap shape, sign better players, help get him more rings.

Overall a great win win deal for all sides and another home run by Licht.

Why do people act like giving Godwin $19M is breaking the cap? Also, wtf you think he's making in the open market? If not for his injury I would've expected him to be pushing $25M/yr easy. Getting him at 19 is a bargain.

Also it gives us a ton of leverage in further negotiations. We can extend him further on a tag and OBP would have the leverage. Godwin knows he's hurt, he could come in and have a down year and be looking at "prove it" deals next year anyway. Worst still if he gets hurt again. When faced with that or an even moderately reasonable extension, it's not hard to see where the pressure will be.

Very much a reasonable extension that put enough pressure.

Coerce is an interesting word choice.

Cousins took the gamble and won. Great for him. Doesn't stop making it a gamble.

The onus is on him now. If he wants to cash in now we're his only option, if not he has to risk it all in another year. He isn't going to sit it out. Which means he's at risk of going out there and getting hurt again or playing but having a down year.
We've just become his only ticket for cashing in big, for sure, today.

He cashed in. And will again. Smart moves.

That’s some BIG mental gymnastics right there. You said market value was 25/year. You were wrong, no need to try and justify your wrongness.

[nybf]

Nice, almost Christian Kirk money!

Happy to see him here long term.

He got more per year and more guaranteed in 3 years than Kirk got in 4.

3/60 > 4/84?

[King Bootz]

He got more per year and more guaranteed in 3 years than Kirk got in 4.

3/60 > 4/84?

3/60 > 4/72.




Anymore questions?

[nybf]

Yeah, where did the other 12 go?

[whistlepig777]

Yeah, where did the other 12 go?

Can I have it?

[King Bootz]

Yeah, where did the other 12 go?

You should know that since you're so smart

[whistlepig777]

[whistlepig777]

Loving the embedding here.

[MJW]

Things have certainly changed. Dead money used to be viewed as the real Satan.

It's amazing that this use to be a franchise that prided itself on having as minimal dead cap money or singing bonuses as possible.

Now we basically hand out both for every contract signed.

It's evidence of what I've said about the "two states" a franchise should be in.

You're either legitimately a threat to win the Superbowl.

Or

You're doing everything possible to join that first group as soon as possible in the future.

When you're in the non-contender group, you should do exactly what Licht did. Avoid potential dead money like the plague. Do nothing to tie up future cap space in a few years when we might need it.

When you're in the second group, as we are now, you don't worry too much about kicking the cap can down the road. Which Licht doesn't.

IMHO, he handled both of these situations well (besides a few missteps.)

[Buc2]

Things have certainly changed. Dead money used to be viewed as the real Satan.

It's amazing that this use to be a franchise that prided itself on having as minimal dead cap money or singing bonuses as possible.

Now we basically hand out both for every contract signed.

And, interestingly enough, they also started winning when they threw that strategy out the window. Yes, we all know the piper gets paid eventually (you're no guru here), but even that can be handled without diving into the dumpster for years (see NE Patriots). That's why people like me, @uscbucsfan, and @Dread get such a kick out of the hand-wringers when they start moaning about the cap situation.

[nybf]

Yeah, where did the other 12 go?

Can I have it?

Ask boots. 52 mil is the same as 30, so giving out 12 should be no big deal.

[King Bootz]

Can I have it?

Ask boots. 52 mil is the same as 30, so giving out 12 should be no big deal.

So this is where you also tell me how 72 & 84 are the same as well huh?

[King Bootz]

But...but...but.... BootziszGottaJabooGrownish told us all that Godwin was getting traded to free up cap space.

So confused since she is the best capaologist not in the NFL?

Weird.

He did? Show me.

[nybf]

Ask boots. 52 mil is the same as 30, so giving out 12 should be no big deal.

So this is where you also tell me how 72 & 84 are the same as well huh?

No, I'm actually asking why that guy says 72 when all the other reports say 84.

But if that's the route you want to go, 72 is a whole lot closer to 84 than 30 is to 52 no matter how you look at it.

[King Bootz]

So this is where you also tell me how 72 & 84 are the same as well huh?

No, I'm actually asking why that guy says 72 when all the other reports say 84.

But if that's the route you want to go, 72 is a whole lot closer to 84 than 30 is to 52 no matter how you look at it.

I never made any definite claims about Miller's deal being 2/30 though. You made a definite claim about the 4/84, going off of reports instead of the actual deal.

And that guy says 72 because that's the number.

[Nobody]

Let me course-correct here after years of dissatisfaction with Licht. After this ridiculously well-played Free Agency period, I'm officially pro Licht.

I've loved a lot of Licht's moves over the years (particularly the moves/acquisitions of Mankins, Marpet, Godwin, Vea + trade, Davis, LVD extension, Evans extension, Wirfs, Winfield, Barrett, JPP, Brady, and several UFA moves), but the Winston pick that set the franchise back 5 years + overall FA misses (both who we invested in and who we passed on) + drafting through 2017 left me ill. Then came Jones, Stewart, White, SMB, Vaughn, and last year's 2nd and onward draft class. Then there is the status of Special Teams (which is a byproduct of poor late drafting or UFA moves). Despite a crazy amount of draft capital and FA capital compared to the rest of the league, we still sucked out loud.

However, the trajectory has been upwards since 2018 culminating. On top of that, in the history of the NFL, I'm not sure I've seen a victory snatched away from the jaws of defeat by a front office like this. The Shaq Mason trade, the Godwin Tag and extension, the CD3 contract, Brady returning (yes, this is Brady re-upping, but confidence in Licht to reassemble a team around him...and make no mistake, there was a shit-ton of work to do to get that done), Jensen resigning (I would have been against this if Brady wasn't coming back...keep Cappa if no Brady...but with Brady, its Jensen all day long), the Gage signing. Just absolutely brilliant stuff.

So yeah.

Given the trend-line and this unprecedented FA period by Licht et al, the resume speaks for itself. While I'm sure I'll be annoyed about this or that pick in this coming draft, the guy deserves full-throated support. He's up there with the best of the best in the NFL. Neck and neck for top dog at this point.

[nybf]

I never made any definite claims about Miller's deal being 2/30 though.

It's also probably something like 2yrd/$30mil with a lot of fluff.

Yup.

[Buc2]

Theme song for this latest nybf/bootzy feud...

[nybf]

When the basis for post whoring is arguing all sides to cover all your bases, yeah

[King Bootz]

I never made any definite claims about Miller's deal being 2/30 though.

It's also probably something like 2yrd/$30mil with a lot of fluff.

Yup.

Yea again you were the only one who took an arbitrary figure to heart. Nuance is completely lost on you. No surprises there.

[The Outsider]

The lack of capitalization in that post is driving me fucking nuts. Like why even capitalize "I" if you're not going to capitalize anything else? Fucking millennial basic white bitches.

[uscbucsfan]

The lack of capitalization in that post is driving me fucking nuts. Like why even capitalize "I" if you're not going to capitalize anything else? Fucking millennial basic white bitches.

The random punctuation dumps, especially around the ampersands, caught my eye.

[Doctor]

@Doctor I literally could have posted a string of a dozen emails where you said he was pushing for 25 million minimum and 20 flat is "splitting the difference" but please double down on you 12 to 15 shitty takes on why we couldn't get a deal done.

The truth is he he believed he was worth 25 mill. He wouldn't have taken a 20% paycut over 3 years. I pushed you on this more than once you pounded your chest multiple times. Just take the loss.

I mean if you really need some internet message board win for validation, have at it. It's yours. But it isn't a 20% cut over 3 years- just 2. He was locked into the discounted rate in year 1 via the franchise tag.

That’s some BIG mental gymnastics right there. You said market value was 25/year. You were wrong, no need to try and justify your wrongness.

I don't think you understand how a market (or tag) works. If he was on the market right now he'd totally be pushing for his market value, ~$25M, just as Adams would be pushing for $30M.

But he is not on the market. So he needs to settle. He can settle for two options
1) One year, $19M and maybe be on the market next year and cash in full
2) Three year, $60M, and maybe hit the market again when in your prime to cash in

Godwin getting his true market contract of say 4 year $100M was NEVER going to happen this year because.... WE TAGGED HIM TO KEEP HIM OFF THE MARKET! If we were going to offer and pay him that kind of contract we would've done so before the tag. Do you think the FO just offered this 3/$60M deal for the first time this week? Of course not. That offer has been sitting on Godwin's desk for weeks.

The only thing that changed recently was Godwin's chances of hitting the market dropping to 0% once he got officially tagged. That's the only change, and with it Godwin's options change and he had to weigh them accordingly. He knows exactly how risky playing out the tag and trying to hit that money market is... he just lived it in 2021 and got hurt.

Those saying we paid a whole lot are kidding themselves. We got a freaking bargain because we were able to leverage the Franchise Tag- the thing the NFLPA and players hate for this exact reason. There are articles written outlining this (and why the FT is awful) every year. This was a textbook case.

[Grahamburn]

Let me course-correct here after years of dissatisfaction with Licht. After this ridiculously well-played Free Agency period, I'm officially pro Licht.

I've loved a lot of Licht's moves over the years (particularly the moves/acquisitions of Mankins, Marpet, Godwin, Vea + trade, Davis, LVD extension, Evans extension, Wirfs, Winfield, Barrett, JPP, Brady, and several UFA moves), but the Winston pick that set the franchise back 5 years + overall FA misses (both who we invested in and who we passed on) + drafting through 2017 left me ill. Then came Jones, Stewart, White, SMB, Vaughn, and last year's 2nd and onward draft class. Then there is the status of Special Teams (which is a byproduct of poor late drafting or UFA moves). Despite a crazy amount of draft capital and FA capital compared to the rest of the league, we still sucked out loud.

However, the trajectory has been upwards since 2018 culminating. On top of that, in the history of the NFL, I'm not sure I've seen a victory snatched away from the jaws of defeat by a front office like this. The Shaq Mason trade, the Godwin Tag and extension, the CD3 contract, Brady returning (yes, this is Brady re-upping, but confidence in Licht to reassemble a team around him...and make no mistake, there was a shit-ton of work to do to get that done), Jensen resigning (I would have been against this if Brady wasn't coming back...keep Cappa if no Brady...but with Brady, its Jensen all day long), the Gage signing. Just absolutely brilliant stuff.

So yeah.

Given the trend-line and this unprecedented FA period by Licht et al, the resume speaks for itself. While I'm sure I'll be annoyed about this or that pick in this coming draft, the guy deserves full-throated support. He's up there with the best of the best in the NFL. Neck and neck for top dog at this point.

You look at the hits/misses in comparison to other franchises and GM's around the league. He's been astounding. He took some outside the box chances on some guys that didn't work out, but he's more than made up for them with the other moves you mentioned. He'll always be able to say he built the roster Tom Brady wanted to come to.

[Buc2]

Let me course-correct here after years of dissatisfaction with Licht. After this ridiculously well-played Free Agency period, I'm officially pro Licht.

I've loved a lot of Licht's moves over the years (particularly the moves/acquisitions of Mankins, Marpet, Godwin, Vea + trade, Davis, LVD extension, Evans extension, Wirfs, Winfield, Barrett, JPP, Brady, and several UFA moves), but the Winston pick that set the franchise back 5 years + overall FA misses (both who we invested in and who we passed on) + drafting through 2017 left me ill. Then came Jones, Stewart, White, SMB, Vaughn, and last year's 2nd and onward draft class. Then there is the status of Special Teams (which is a byproduct of poor late drafting or UFA moves). Despite a crazy amount of draft capital and FA capital compared to the rest of the league, we still sucked out loud.

However, the trajectory has been upwards since 2018 culminating. On top of that, in the history of the NFL, I'm not sure I've seen a victory snatched away from the jaws of defeat by a front office like this. The Shaq Mason trade, the Godwin Tag and extension, the CD3 contract, Brady returning (yes, this is Brady re-upping, but confidence in Licht to reassemble a team around him...and make no mistake, there was a shit-ton of work to do to get that done), Jensen resigning (I would have been against this if Brady wasn't coming back...keep Cappa if no Brady...but with Brady, its Jensen all day long), the Gage signing. Just absolutely brilliant stuff.

So yeah.

Given the trend-line and this unprecedented FA period by Licht et al, the resume speaks for itself. While I'm sure I'll be annoyed about this or that pick in this coming draft, the guy deserves full-throated support. He's up there with the best of the best in the NFL. Neck and neck for top dog at this point.

You look at the hits/misses in comparison to other franchises and GM's around the league. He's been astounding. He took some outside the box chances on some guys that didn't work out, but he's more than made up for them with the other moves you mentioned. He'll always be able to say he built the roster Tom Brady wanted to come to.

I likened his early miscues to being a first-time GM. Fortunately for us, the Glazers gave him time to learn and grow into the position when many were calling for his head.

[The Outsider]

You look at the hits/misses in comparison to other franchises and GM's around the league. He's been astounding. He took some outside the box chances on some guys that didn't work out, but he's more than made up for them with the other moves you mentioned. He'll always be able to say he built the roster Tom Brady wanted to come to.

I likened his early miscues to being a first-time GM. Fortunately for us, the Glazers gave him time to learn and grow into the position when many were calling for his head.

I mean, also sometimes when your team is as bad as we were you just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. I agree that the Glazers did a great job in not getting trigger happy after some early blunders, though. All around competence from our franchise, never thought I'd see that.

[King Bootz]

No GM bats 1.000. Not even Licht, not even now. I bet if he had it to do over again he wouldn't have been so committed to "bringing the band back together". It didn't work out. We have about $12mil in dead cap space attributed to 2 players we might re-sign anyway, which is going to balloon their cap #s. It becomes more difficult to keep good players. Think he wouldn't have wanted to keep Whitehead or Cappa? We barely have room now and have at minimum 6 starters to replace or re-sign still.

No it's not perfect. But overall he's doing a great job.

[Doctor]

Hearing "no GM bats 1.000" from Captain Ideal Hindsight himself...

[Primeminister]

At this point I will argue that Licht is the best in the league.

[Snake]

At this point I will argue that Licht is the best in the league.

Having the best player of all time helps everything make sense. Having a good enough team in place to entice said player to sign there reflects well on the GM, to be sure.

Only 3 teams being interested in TB12 when he hit UFA is the part that’s hard to believe.

[Primeminister]

At this point I will argue that Licht is the best in the league.

Having the best player of all time helps everything make sense. Having a good enough team in place to entice said player to sign there reflects well on the GM, to be sure.

Only 3 teams being interested in TB12 when he hit UFA is the part that’s hard to believe.

I think the job he has done rebuilding this team in the past week is equal to the job he did building it in the first place. Licht is everything you want in a GM.

He drafts fairly well and can make good FA deals.