Welcome Baker Mayfield

[acmillis]

So... just curious... if we beat Dallas in the playoffs... then what?

Then we probably travel to PHI or SF



…and get our shit kicked in

[Doctor]

Define shit kicked in.

What if we're down 6, 2min left, Baker with the ball?

[Navybuc]

Define shit kicked in.

What if we're down 6, 2min left, Baker with the ball?

You wake up from your dream.

[Grahamburn]

So... just curious... if we beat Dallas in the playoffs... then what?

Then we probably travel to PHI or SF



…and get our shit kicked in

They seem a lot more vulnerable than they did 6-8 weeks ago. We’re playing better. They’re playing worse. We’re fairly healthy *knock on wood and they’re both getting a little dinged up.

But, we’ll see. Let’s dominate NO first. Exclamation point style.

[Buc2]

I am absolutely committed to the belief that had anyone else other than shithead Schiano coached Josh Freeman, they would not have broken him and he could’ve ended up a much better player with a longer-term career. I think Schiano thought he could berate Freeman into a better QB. But he ended up undermining him, annihilating his self esteem, and wore him down and that didn’t support the psyche that Freeman had. It is possible with someone like Bowles for example, Freeman may have thrived. Most of us probably have had the experience with a superior that nurtured us and how we blossomed and a superior who vilified, patronized and degraded us and how that deflated us. That is the kind of intangible cannot be underestimated.

I disagree with your opinion.

I’m definitely no Schiano fan, but to lay Freeman’s failure at his feet is wrong. If he was too much of a pussy to handle a coach yelling at him, then he was in the wrong career. At the end of the day, Freeman derailed Freeman. His craving of cocaine and the party life was what was responsible for derailing his career. If it was Schiano, then he should have thrived after he left Tampa.

[Babeinbucland]

I am absolutely committed to the belief that had anyone else other than shithead Schiano coached Josh Freeman, they would not have broken him and he could’ve ended up a much better player with a longer-term career. I think Schiano thought he could berate Freeman into a better QB. But he ended up undermining him, annihilating his self esteem, and wore him down and that didn’t support the psyche that Freeman had. It is possible with someone like Bowles for example, Freeman may have thrived. Most of us probably have had the experience with a superior that nurtured us and how we blossomed and a superior who vilified, patronized and degraded us and how that deflated us. That is the kind of intangible cannot be underestimated.

I disagree with your opinion.

I’m definitely no Schiano fan, but to lay Freeman’s failure at his feet is wrong. If he was too much of a pussy to handle a coach yelling at him, then he was in the wrong career. At the end of the day, Freeman derailed Freeman. His craving of cocaine and the party life was what was responsible for derailing his career. If it was Schiano, then he should have thrived after he left Tampa.

Nope. That is not how mental health works. No person (including men) should have to put up with abuse. Saying he should have been able to deal gives schiano a pass on being a bully. Freeman was fine, even pretty damn good right up until Schiano took the reins. However, Freeman decompensated is what it is, but without Schiano’s horrific ways, he might have been fine. We will never know. But what we do know is that any human can be broken by those who know how to use the right weapon.

[Buc2]

I disagree with your opinion.

I’m definitely no Schiano fan, but to lay Freeman’s failure at his feet is wrong. If he was too much of a pussy to handle a coach yelling at him, then he was in the wrong career. At the end of the day, Freeman derailed Freeman. His craving of cocaine and the party life was what was responsible for derailing his career. If it was Schiano, then he should have thrived after he left Tampa.

Nope. That is not how mental health works. No person (including men) should have to put up with abuse. Saying he should have been able to deal gives schiano a pass on being a bully. Freeman was fine, even pretty damn good right up until Schiano took the reins. However, Freeman decompensated is what it is, but without Schiano’s horrific ways, he might have been fine. We will never know. But what we do know is that any human can be broken by those who know how to use the right weapon.

We also know he got into drugs and we all know the harm that can do. Bottom line, we could both be wrong or right. It’s just opinions no matter how much we disagree.

[Pirate Life]

Doesn't really matter why he won. If Dilfer can win a SB, then Mayfield can as well. From time to time, we tend to forget that football is a team game. Quarterback may be the most important position in sports, but you can win championships with one that just avoids turnovers and makes a play or two here and there. Dilfer did that in 2000, Foles did it in 2017, heck Brad Johnson did it in the first Bucs SB win.

Saying Mayfield can't win one with the Bucs ever is ignoring the fact that worse QBs have done it before.

He had 12 ints in 12 starts and added 11 fumbles. Avoided turnovers? No, that was a historic defense

He lost 7 fumbles, not 11. And only had one turnover in the playoffs, an interception against the Raiders.

Interception-wise, he was one of the better guys in the league that season. He was tied with Gannon for 21st. This was before the pass interference rule changes, so interceptions were a lot more prevalent than in today's game. Two guys had over 20 that year, Testeverde and Plummer. Kurt Warner in 11 games had 18. Aikman had 14 in 11 games. Brad Johnson, who would win a SB in Tampa two years later had 15 in 11 games started. 25 QBs had double digit interceptions that season. So far this year, it's 12 with two games to go and a high of 17. That'd be 7th on the list in 2000.

Not trying to say Dilfer was a great QB or the reason they won a SB. But for the time he very much was a game manager who avoided turnovers compared to a lot of the QBs in the league. Just proves the point that most any QB can win the SB in the right circumstances. Mayfield is certainly a better QB than Dilfer and some of the others that have rings.

[Doctor]

If December Baker is the norm we can definitely win.

[Babeinbucland]

When Tori Amos predicts the future and Nails the lyrics at the same time

Baker baker, baking a cake
Make me a day, make me whole again
And I wonder what's in a day
What's in your cake this time

[CannonFire]

Conversely, by all accounts, Baker Mayfield has the complete opposite of that here. He has the belief of his coaches and support from them in the exact way he needs it. So it is entirely possible that we have yet to see present Baker Mayfield at his future best. We’re just seeing him at his best right now. That may very well not be all he is capable of in the future.

And the net result of this great environment is a mediocre (we're 8-8), to below average (we're 1-6 against good teams), team.

[Babeinbucland]

Conversely, by all accounts, Baker Mayfield has the complete opposite of that here. He has the belief of his coaches and support from them in the exact way he needs it. So it is entirely possible that we have yet to see present Baker Mayfield at his future best. We’re just seeing him at his best right now. That may very well not be all he is capable of in the future.

And the net result of this great environment is a mediocre (we're 8-8), to below average (we're 1-6 against good teams), team.

True. So far in chapter one (or chapter 4 if you break down the season into quarters). I look forward to the entire read.

[CannonFire]

So... just curious... if we beat Dallas in the playoffs... then what?

IF we beat Dallas, it's because they beat themselves. I say that because it's what they've done all year in road games.

Just curious... if Dallas beats us like a drum... then what?

[Navybuc]

If December Baker is the norm we can definitely win.

[wesmon]

I am absolutely committed to the belief that had anyone else other than shithead Schiano coached Josh Freeman, they would not have broken him and he could’ve ended up a much better player with a longer-term career. I think Schiano thought he could berate Freeman into a better QB. But he ended up undermining him, annihilating his self esteem, and wore him down and that didn’t support the psyche that Freeman had. It is possible with someone like Bowles for example, Freeman may have thrived. Most of us probably have had the experience with a superior that nurtured us and how we blossomed and a superior who vilified, patronized and degraded us and how that deflated us. That is the kind of intangible cannot be underestimated.

I disagree with your opinion.

I’m definitely no Schiano fan, but to lay Freeman’s failure at his feet is wrong. If he was too much of a pussy to handle a coach yelling at him, then he was in the wrong career. At the end of the day, Freeman derailed Freeman. His craving of cocaine and the party life was what was responsible for derailing his career. If it was Schiano, then he should have thrived after he left Tampa.

Yeah, Freeman was already on the way down when Schiano was hired. Drugs and mental illness did him in.

[Sdbucs]

7 to 9 wins against crappy opponents only to get blown out in playoffs

I’ve been saying it from day 1. Anyone disagree at this point?

[Babeinbucland]

I disagree with your opinion.

I’m definitely no Schiano fan, but to lay Freeman’s failure at his feet is wrong. If he was too much of a pussy to handle a coach yelling at him, then he was in the wrong career. At the end of the day, Freeman derailed Freeman. His craving of cocaine and the party life was what was responsible for derailing his career. If it was Schiano, then he should have thrived after he left Tampa.

Yeah, Freeman was already on the way down when Schiano was hired. Drugs and mental illness did him in.

By all accounts I read that all started after Schiano arrived.

Ex:

How Josh Freeman Became Greg Schiano's Public Enemy No. 1
GARY DAVENPORTX.com Logo
OCTOBER 1, 2013

FOXBORO, MA - SEPTEMBER 22: Josh Freeman #5 of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers reacts after an incomplete pass in the second half against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at Gillette Stadium on September 22, 2013 in Foxboro, Massachusetts. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
Jim Rogash/Getty Images
It's not exactly unheard of for players and coaches to not get along in the NFL.
However, rarely has a relationship between a coach and player disintegrated so completely and spectacularly as the falling out between quarterback Josh Freeman and head coach Greg Schiano in Tampa Bay.
Freeman, a player who, not too long ago, was viewed as the future under center for the Buccaneers, has been benched, his time with the team all but certainly finished.
Schiano is under fire in his second season in Tampa, the target of scorn from the fans and media alike:
Mind you, this was a team that many folks considered a dark-horse playoff contender. Now the Buccaneers sit at 0-4 headed into their bye week, and there's a very real chance that both quarterback and coach will be gone by midseason.


This free fall has left reeling supporters of the team wondering: How did things go so wrong so quickly?
Well, to answer that question, we need to start at the beginning.

Freeman Arrives in Tampa Bay
After a standout collegiate career with the Kansas State Wildcats, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers made Freeman the 17th pick of the first round of the 2009 NFL draft. It was the beginning of a new era in Tampa, as Super Bowl-winning coach Jon Gruden had been let go during the offseason.
Things hardly went as planned, with new head coach Raheem Morris losing his first seven games. By the bye week, Morris decided the future was now, and Freeman made his first career start for the Buccaneers against the Green Bay Packers.

In that game, Freeman threw three touchdown passes, guiding Tampa Bay to their first win of the season. Granted, the 2009 Buccaneers only won three games, but Freeman played well enough to give fans of the team some hope for the future.

Rise and (Free)Fall
During the 2010 season, it appeared those hopes would be realized.
Freeman played lights-out football in his sophomore season in the NFL. He completed well over 60 percent of his passes, threw 25 touchdown passes against only six interceptions and posted a passer rating of over 95.
Those stats were all the more remarkable, given the relative lack of offensive talent around Freeman that year. No receiver topped 1,000 yards or had over 70 catches for the Buccaneers in 2010, and running back LeGarrette Blount barely cleared 1,000 yards on the ground.

The Buccaneers were shut out of the playoffs, despite a 10-6 record, but Freeman earned a trip to the Pro Bowl for his efforts.
The sky appeared to be the limit.
It fell in the next year.
Freeman would throw for more yardage in 2011 and completed a higher percentage of his passes. However, his touchdown passes were down, and his interceptions skyrocketed from six to 22.
Tampa's record fell to 4-12, Morris was fired, and just like that, Freeman's NFL career was at a crossroads.

Enter Greg Schiano
On January 26, 2012, the Buccaneers hired Rutgers head coach Greg Schiano as their head coach.
At first, as Greg Auman of the Tampa Bay Times reported at the time, quarterback and coach appeared to be getting along swimmingly.
Schiano told Auman that "I'm excited to have Josh here," and Freeman said of his new coach, ""I love his direction. He's a very passionate coach."
The good feelings appeared to continue into the season.
Over the first half of the 2012 campaign, Freeman looked to be well on his way to recapturing his 2010 form, throwing 16 touchdown passes and only five interceptions. The Buccaneers went 4-4 over that stretch, leaving the team in the thick of the postseason hunt.
Freeman then fell apart down the stretch, throwing 11 touchdown passes and 12 picks the rest of the way. Freeman topped 4,000 passing yards for the first time in his career, but the 7-9 Buccaneers again missed the playoffs.
The season ended with Schiano telling Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times, "I have to evaluate everything before I can say that’s what we’re doing."
Storm Clouds Gather
2013 shaped up as a make-or-break season for Freeman for a number of reasons, not the least of which was the fact that it was the last year of his rookie contract.
The year began with Schiano sticking behind Freeman, at least publicly. In February, Schiano told reporters at the NFL combine in Indianapolis, per Marc Sessler of NFL.com, that "Josh Freeman is our quarterback, and I believe that Josh Freeman -- with Josh Freeman -- we'll be able to accomplish our goals."
However, privately it was another story, or so it seemed. In April, Stephen Holder of the Tampa Bay Times reported that "just about everyone at One Buc Place seems on-board with Freeman except for one person."
That person, according to Holder, was Greg Schiano.
When the Buccaneers drafted North Carolina State's Mike Glennon in the third round of April's NFL draft, some pundits theorized that Schiano might be ready to make a switch.
Schiano insisted that Freeman was still the starter in May, according to the Associated Press via ESPN:
We have our starting quarterback. It's Josh Freeman. I'm not looking to find a new one, but I do like to have quality depth at every position. When you get that, just naturally these are the most competitive guys on the planet, and it raises everybody's level.
But the rumbles continued to grow. Pete Prisco of CBS Sports reported (also in May) that a source told him, "He [Schiano] wants a guy who is going to get in guys faces when they make mistakes. The fiery, take-charge guy."
The belief was that Freeman's laid-back style was rubbing Schiano the wrong way, and that the schism between player and coach was growing.
Things Unravel Quickly
Once the 2013 season started, everything fell apart.
Freeman struggled badly out of the gate. Before the season-opening loss to the New York Jets, the team held a players-only meeting. As Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk reported, one of the topics was the vote that ended with Freeman not being named a captain for the first time in three years.

The legitimacy of the vote was called into question, with the insinuation being that Schiano had doctored the vote in order to strip Freeman of his captaincy.
Then a report by Ira Kaufman and Roy Cummings of the Tampa Tribune surfaced that Freeman had been late for the team's photo and other functions, angering his head coach.
In Kaufman's opinion, things had reached the breaking point:
That big game didn't come, and prior to Tampa's Week 4 matchup with the Arizona Cardinals, the hammer came down:
From there, believe it or not, things only got worse.
From Good, To Bad, To Ugly
Not surprisingly, Freeman, who was inactive for the loss to Arizona, asked to be traded.

Ed Werder of ESPN reported that Tampa contacted "about a dozen teams" about a deal for Freeman:
However, with Freeman in the last year of a contract that will pay him over $8 million, there were no takers.
Meanwhile, things in Tampa completely disintegrated.
Somehow, word was leaked to ESPN's Chris Mortensen that Freeman is in stage one of the NFL's drug program.
This spurred a statement from Freeman clarifying that his positive test was due to a mix-up in his ADHD medication.
As Chris Korman of USA Today reports, Freeman also blasted the Tampa Bay organization for leaking the information:
Unfortunately, it appears that some people who may have noticed the testing at my workplace have made hurtful and incorrect assumptions and chosen to disseminate inaccurate and very disturbing information.

It is a shame that when times have gotten tough, people have chosen to attack the character of others, rather than supporting each other. I remain dedicated and focused to being the best quarterback I can be and to help a team win a championship.
The NFLPA is now investigating who leaked Freeman's status, and Schiano has stated that he was "absolutely not" Mortensen's source, according to Lindsay Jones of USA Today.
Link to Media
"I know what I've done, and I'm 100% comfortable with my behavior," Schiano said.

And so here we sit, with Freeman persona non grata at One Buc Place:
What a mess.
So What's Next?
There aren't any winners in this situation.
Freeman isn't without blame. The simple fact is, all this could have been avoided had he played better. Maybe Schiano's right, and Freeman lacks the "fire" necessary to be a star quarterback in the NFL.
He'll get another shot somewhere. After all, he's still only 25 years old. It will be for a lot less money than he would have gotten in an extension with the Buccaneers, though.
Schiano's odds of having an NFL job after this year are even worse. The Buccaneers are 0-4. This whole fiasco has only enhanced the perception that he's completely out of touch with his players. The "hard-nosed attitude" that attracted Tampa to Schiano to begin with now comes off as a bully who has alienated his own team.
Should Schiano (or someone in his circle) prove to be Mortensen's source, his NFL career would be over. Even the perception that he is may be enough. What free agent is going to sign with a team where it appears the coach will turn on his players out of nothing more than spite?
The biggest losers in all this are the fans of the Buccaneers.
They entered this season with dreams of making the playoffs.
Now they're trapped in a nightmare, supporting a winless team that has become a punchline.

[Jonny]

@Babeinbucland I strongly recommend you to watch PewterReport's special episode on Josh Freeman on YT. Should be pretty easy to lookup. I also believed Schiano had a lot to do with Freeman's downfall, but I later realized Freeman was a mess after hearing some events that happened in 2013 from reliable people close to the organization like Scott Reynolds of PR. All this info was kept under the wraps around that time, not sure why. Even Ronde Barber touched on that subject briefly in a recent podcast I cannot remember. He alluded to Freeman's problems being his own doing.

[Babeinbucland]

@Babeinbucland I strongly recommend you to watch PewterReport's special episode on Josh Freeman on YT. Should be pretty easy to lookup. I also believed Schiano had a lot to do with Freeman's downfall, but I later realized Freeman was a mess after hearing some events that happened in 2013 from reliable people close to the organization like Scott Reynolds of PR. All this info was kept under the wraps around that time, not sure why. Even Ronde Barber touched on that subject briefly in a recent podcast I cannot remember. He alluded to Freeman's problems being his own doing.

Honestly, they just seemed to be really biased quoting “Anonymous Buc’s sources”. I didn’t hear anything that changed my mind. Actually, it reinforced things for me. But I really do appreciate the listen and you for posting it!

[Buc2]

Once a mind is made up, it's next to impossible to change it.

[Grahamburn]

What a letdown.

[13F11B]

I had some inside information on the Freeman situation. While Schiano did not handle it properly I would say 90% of the issue was Freeman based on what I was told. Given that Freeman could not stick on an NFL roster after that my guess is that what I was told was accurate. We are talking Antonio Brown level of stupid.

[Snake]

Schiano is/was a turd who isn’t meant for the NFL.

Josh Freeman didn’t have the mentality necessary to sustain a successful NFL career as a QB.

Both can exist.

[13F11B]

Schiano is/was a turd who isn’t meant for the NFL.

Josh Freeman didn’t have the mentality necessary to sustain a successful NFL career as a QB.

Both can exist.

True. Schiano still had one season with a better record that Bowles with the Buccaneers. Schiano did not have Brady either. Have to give him that.

[Doctor]

I had some inside information on the Freeman situation. While Schiano did not handle it properly I would say 90% of the issue was Freeman based on what I was told. Given that Freeman could not stick on an NFL roster after that my guess is that what I was told was accurate. We are talking Antonio Brown level of stupid.

I believe it. So much of what matters for this job can't be found on tape or in a scheduled interview. It's why the vast majority of saviors end up as false prophets.

[Jonny]

Schiano is/was a turd who isn’t meant for the NFL.

Josh Freeman didn’t have the mentality necessary to sustain a successful NFL career as a QB.

Both can exist.

True. Schiano still had one season with a better record that Bowles with the Buccaneers. Schiano did not have Brady either. Have to give him that.

VJax was a godsend to Tampa in 2012, along with Martin. That offense was dangerous in a way I had not seen Bucs offense ever be.

On defensive side Schiano made it his mission to turn Bucs from the sorriest run defense to the most smothering.

That was honestly a better season than both of Gruden's 9-7 seasons before his firing.

Schiano was too abrasive and arrogant in general and when a team starts to underperform with that type of heavy handed approach, you end up having a very short leash.

[Doctor]

Baker is 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TDs and we've only recently started to really find our form.

But like, whatever.

[Bootz]

Baker is 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TDs and we've only recently started to really find our form.

But like, whatever.

Also 13 total turnover in 16 games.

[kaimaru]

Baker is 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TDs and we've only recently started to really find our form.

But like, whatever.

Also 13 total turnover in 16 games.

Which makes him 15th behind Tua, Mahomes, and tied with Lamar. I assume that was a compliment

[Bootz]

Also 13 total turnover in 16 games.

Which makes him 15th behind Tua, Mahomes, and tied with Lamar. I assume that was a compliment

13 turnovers is tied for 5th fewest amongst QBs. Amongst QBs who have started all 16 games, it's tied for 3rd fewest.

Dak Prescott- 10
Derek Carr- 11
Brock Purdy, Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield, Jordan Love- 13


Mahomes & Tua have 17 turnovers each.

So 13 turnovers in 16 games? Hell yes that's a compliment. Convince anyone else otherwise.

[Doctor]

They really just hate used QB

[Bootz]

They really just hate used QB

Bet people would love Justin Herbert, his $260mil contract and losing record for multiple reasons. Top 10 pick and since people hate Bowles, if there's 1 thing Herbert can do it's get a HC fired.

[mdb1958]

This batch of QB's will feel like a lone Hyena being hunted by African wild dogs.

[acmillis]

They really just hate used QB

Bet people would love Justin Herbert, his $260mil contract and losing record for multiple reasons. Top 10 pick and since people hate Bowles, if there's 1 thing Herbert can do it's get a HC fired.

Man, you really hate Herbert as much as I hate Fields, huh? You say Herbert breaks down in the 4th quarter, but you defend Fields when:
---
Through Sunday's games, Fields ranks last in the NFL this season among 31 qualified quarterbacks in fourth-quarter completion percentage (51.8%), is 25th in yards per attempt (5.9), tied for 29th in fourth-quarter interceptions (6) and 30th in QBR (20.4), per ESPN Stats & Information research.

Since joining the league in 2021, Fields is last among 38 qualified quarterbacks in fourth-quarter interceptions (16), 36th in completion percentage (56.2%) and 33rd in QBR (41.4). Conversely, his touchdown-to-interception ratio of 4.3 in the first three quarters this season is the NFL's fourth best among 31 qualified quarterbacks.
---

Did you see this afticle:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/392 ... -nfl-draft

[Bootz]

Another day another Justin Fields discussion out of the blue by @acmillis. It's 2024, kiddo. Get a new act.