Welcome Baker Mayfield

[CannonFire]

Baker is 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TDs and we've only recently started to really find our form.

But like, whatever.

Pointing out 2 favorable stats and ignoring how many other negative stats? You're really reaching. Being 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TD's doesn't mean very much when....

We're 19th in total scoring
We're tied for 27th in rushing TD's
We're tied for 27th in FG attempts

Despite having Mike Evans (10th in the NFL in yards/1st in TD's), Chris Godwin (leading the team in receptions), & Rachaad White (3rd in the NFL in RB yards from scrimmage/7th in the NFL), we only managed 36 total TD's which puts us tied for 18th in the league.

Apparently, 2 stats make Baker Mayfield look good, and in your opinion, worthy of promoting... while many other stats make the offense that he runs, look bleh. So, if it's not Mayfield's fault for out mediocre to below average scoring, who's is it? Bowles? Should he be fired for bringing everyone down? Canales? Should he be fired because the offense only makes 2 aspects of Mayfield look good?

Or should we realize that out mediocre offense is lead by a mediocre QB and we're producing mediocre numbers and a mediocre record?

Or do we just focus on 2 particular stats and say "But like, whatever"?

[Doctor]

Dude brought up rushing TDs and FGs to show why the QB is mediocre.

[Navybuc]

In terms of Fields, you know what you’re getting. Hes a solid qb with growing potential. But if you’re the Bears and think Caleb Williams or Drake Maye can be better than that, and a team inside the top 15 offers you their No. 1 and another pick for Fields (most likely the Falcons), you now have 3 No. 1s inside the top 10 or 15. Plus Carolina was stupid away to trade you DJ Moore and you can pair him with a Harrison, Nabors, or Odunze. The Bears D is also already vastly improving.

The Bears are a team I’d like to be right now.

[acmillis]

Another day another Justin Fields discussion out of the blue by @acmillis. It's 2024, kiddo. Get a new act.

...and you brought up Herbert for no reason, huh?

[Snake]

Herbert is too light skinned.

[Phantom]

Caucasian, Snake

[Bootz]

Another day another Justin Fields discussion out of the blue by @acmillis. It's 2024, kiddo. Get a new act.

...and you brought up Herbert for no reason, huh?

Mentioned him as one of the very few prospects people would like here because he's perceived as being in the same company as guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Jackson, Hurts etc. Or do you hate him too, seeing as you hate nearly every player in the NFL

[Bootz]

In terms of Fields, you know what you’re getting. Hes a solid qb with growing potential. But if you’re the Bears and think Caleb Williams or Drake Maye can be better than that, and a team inside the top 15 offers you their No. 1 and another pick for Fields (most likely the Falcons), you now have 3 No. 1s inside the top 10 or 15. Plus Carolina was stupid away to trade you DJ Moore and you can pair him with a Harrison, Nabors, or Odunze. The Bears D is also already vastly improving.

The Bears are a team I’d like to be right now.

They are definitely trending in the right direction. 5-2 in their last 7 games after it looked like they'd repeat as being the worst team in football. Eberflus has definitely done well and earned a 3rd year.

Now they get another #1 pick, their own 1st and over $60mil in cap space. They have the resources to make a big jump this offseason.

[acmillis]

...and you brought up Herbert for no reason, huh?

Mentioned him as one of the very few prospects people would like here because he's perceived as being in the same company as guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Jackson, Hurts etc. Or do you hate him too, seeing as you hate nearly every player in the NFL

Got it, so you brought him up for no reason.

[Buc2]

Schiano is/was a turd who isn’t meant for the NFL.

Josh Freeman didn’t have the mentality necessary to sustain a successful NFL career as a QB.

Both can exist.

I'm not disputing that both can exist. I was disputing that Freeman's problems were Schiano's fault. They weren't. They were Freeman's fault.

[CannonFire]

Dude brought up rushing TDs and FGs to show why the QB is mediocre.

Way to dodge the question. No, the dude brought up aspects of our team that aren't being productive. They're not being productive because the qb isn't generating the opportunities for them.

The qb's job is to put the team into position to score. How do you do that? By moving down field. The Bucs are 23rd in yards, and 19th in points because Mayfield isn't good enough to use his weapons to move down field and put points on the board. That's why the lack of rushing TD's and FG's are a problem. It's because we're not an efficient or productive offense. Correct if I'm wrong, but a QB plays a big role in that, does he not?

[Grahamburn]

Dude brought up rushing TDs and FGs to show why the QB is mediocre.

Apparently Baker isn't running it well enough.

[Grahamburn]

Dude brought up rushing TDs and FGs to show why the QB is mediocre.

Way to dodge the question. No, the dude brought up aspects of our team that aren't being productive. They're not being productive because the qb isn't generating the opportunities for them.

The qb's job is to put the team into position to score. How do you do that? By moving down field. The Bucs are 23rd in yards, and 19th in points because Mayfield isn't good enough to use his weapons to move down field and put points on the board. That's why the lack of rushing TD's and FG's are a problem. It's because we're not an efficient or productive offense. Correct if I'm wrong, but a QB plays a big role in that, does he not?

They're 15th in passing and 31st in rushing. I agree if they could run it better they'd be much better in total yards and points. I don't agree that Baker has much to do with the inefficiencies in the run game.

His passing statistics are top 10 in most categories.

[Doctor]

Maybe we should try rotating the QB to keep the running backs fresh.

[Nobody]

Pile of various and sundry to evaluate 2023 Baker Mayfield (these are not in order of my perceived importance):

Leads an Offense that is:

# 19 Points Per Game
# 23 Yards Per Game
# 15 Yards Per Play
# 25 Red Zone Scoring %
# 10 Giveaways Per Game
# 24 First Downs Per Game
# 11 Third Down Conversion %
# 2 Fourth Down Conversion %


Personal (of 32 qualifying QBs with minimum 250 Dropbacks):

# 10 Passer Rating
# 16 QBR
# 4 Passing TDs
# 18 Interceptions
# 8 Yards
# 10 Yards Per Attempt
# 19 PFF Grade
# 16 Big Time Throw %
# 24 Turnover Worthy Play %
# 1 Batted Balls
# 9 First Downs
# 16 % of Pressures with Some QB Responsibility

Deep Passing (20 +):

# 34 PFF Grade
# 22 Passer Rating

Intermediate Passing (10-19):

# 15 PFF Grade
# 14 Passer Rating

Short Passing (0-9):

# 9 PFF Grade
# 6 Passer Rating

[acmillis]

Maybe we should try rotating the QB to keep the running backs fresh.

I wish there was an upvote button on this board...seriously.

[Backside]

Maybe we should try rotating the QB to keep the running backs fresh.

I wish there was an upvote button on this board...seriously.

I have great news!

[acmillis]

I wish there was an upvote button on this board...seriously.

I have great news!

hahahah wow, I'm an idiot!

[Doctor]

I have great news!

hahahah wow, I'm an idiot!

I'll upvote that

[CannonFire]

Way to dodge the question. No, the dude brought up aspects of our team that aren't being productive. They're not being productive because the qb isn't generating the opportunities for them.

The qb's job is to put the team into position to score. How do you do that? By moving down field. The Bucs are 23rd in yards, and 19th in points because Mayfield isn't good enough to use his weapons to move down field and put points on the board. That's why the lack of rushing TD's and FG's are a problem. It's because we're not an efficient or productive offense. Correct if I'm wrong, but a QB plays a big role in that, does he not?

They're 15th in passing and 31st in rushing. I agree if they could run it better they'd be much better in total yards and points. I don't agree that Baker has much to do with the inefficiencies in the run game.

His passing statistics are top 10 in most categories.

With Kevin Stefanski, the Browns were 19-14 with Mayfield. He said, "no thanks" to having Mayfield and chose a guy who hadn't played the year before and will miss two-thirds of the following year. In 2022 with Jacoby Brissett starting 11 games and Watson starting 6, the Browns finished the year with 7 wins... 1 less than the prior year with Mayfield. They were also 18 in points scored and 14th in yards. The prior year with Mayfield (with Nick Chubb and Co, rushing for almost 2500 yards with 20 TDs), ranked 20th in points and 16th in yards. Even with Nick Chubb all 4 years, Cleveland's offense was never really better than mediocre. He comes here, has better receivers, and again, the offense is mediocre.

This year in Cleveland with Stefanski still at the helm, who didn't want Mayfield, lost Nick Chubb in Week 2, and is 11-5. Even Joe Flacco is 4-1. Interestingly enough, they're #9 in points scored and #11 in yards. Something Mayfield has never done. Nick Chubb down, with Mayfield, this years' Browns team probably has 5 or 6 wins right now.

[CannonFire]

Maybe we should try rotating the QB to keep the running backs fresh.

Just replacing Mayfield would do the trick... no need to rotate them.

[Grahamburn]

So we’re looking to the Cleveland Browns as a model franchise now? They were a disaster organization well before Mayfield got there.

Also, there’s a better than zero chance the Bucs will be a game better this year than they were with Brady last year.

I’m no hopeium addict, but dumping Mayfield because of his record with the Browns makes no sense.

[Backside]

They're 15th in passing and 31st in rushing. I agree if they could run it better they'd be much better in total yards and points. I don't agree that Baker has much to do with the inefficiencies in the run game.

His passing statistics are top 10 in most categories.

With Kevin Stefanski, the Browns were 19-14 with Mayfield. He said, "no thanks" to having Mayfield and chose a guy who hadn't played the year before and will miss two-thirds of the following year.

Which has/will go down as an all time terrible acquisition and management of resources.

This year in Cleveland with Stefanski still at the helm, who didn't want Mayfield, lost Nick Chubb in Week 2, and is 11-5. Even Joe Flacco is 4-1. Interestingly enough, they're #9 in points scored and #11 in yards. Something Mayfield has never done. Nick Chubb down, with Mayfield, this years' Browns team probably has 5 or 6 wins right now.

I COMPLETELY disagree. What is the argument for this? With a way better defense behind him Baker would have 3-4 more losses? How does that math work?

[Grahamburn]

Cleveland is dominant on defense. That’s why they’re winning.

I’d tank for Myles Garrett.

[CannonFire]

With Kevin Stefanski, the Browns were 19-14 with Mayfield. He said, "no thanks" to having Mayfield and chose a guy who hadn't played the year before and will miss two-thirds of the following year.

Which has/will go down as an all time terrible acquisition and management of resources.

This year in Cleveland with Stefanski still at the helm, who didn't want Mayfield, lost Nick Chubb in Week 2, and is 11-5. Even Joe Flacco is 4-1. Interestingly enough, they're #9 in points scored and #11 in yards. Something Mayfield has never done. Nick Chubb down, with Mayfield, this years' Browns team probably has 5 or 6 wins right now.

I COMPLETELY disagree. What is the argument for this? With a way better defense behind him Baker would have 3-4 more losses? How does that math work?

Maybe will be the worst... but the team is still better because of it. You do know that prior to the injury, the Browns were 5-1 with Watson, right?

What argument can I make? This year, the Browns are 11th in points against and 1st in yards against. In 2021, when the Browns were 8-9 (6-8 with Mayfield, 2-0 with Keenum), their defense was 13th in points against and 5 in yards against. The two teams weren't all that far apart.

[CannonFire]

Cleveland is dominant on defense. That’s why they’re winning.

I’d tank for Myles Garrett.

The Browns are giving up 1 less point per game this year than when Mayfield was there in 2021... when they went 8-9. The Browns are dominant? They're giving up 20.7 ppg (11th)... we're giving up 20.3 (9th). Are we dominant too?

[Backside]

Which has/will go down as an all time terrible acquisition and management of resources.


I COMPLETELY disagree. What is the argument for this? With a way better defense behind him Baker would have 3-4 more losses? How does that math work?

Maybe will be the worst... but the team is still better because of it. You do know that prior to the injury, the Browns were 5-1 with Watson, right?

What argument can I make? This year, the Browns are 11th in points against and 1st in yards against. In 2021, when the Browns were 8-9 (6-8 with Mayfield, 2-0 with Keenum), their defense was 13th in points against and 5 in yards against. The two teams weren't all that far apart.

I don't think they are better because of it. Clearly a QB off the scrap heap can be successful on that team. So paying the most guaranteed money of all time and a bunch of draft picks for a mediocre QB did not make them better. They are a good roster with a good coach, that is a good situation for a QB.

2021 Baker is not 2023 Baker. I don't know how you can watch the Browns QB play this year and think Baker would be some massive downgrade for them. In fact, a very common narrative this season has been how awful the Watson trade was when the Browns could have just kept Baker. Because the TEAM is so good.

[kaimaru]

Baker is 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TDs and we've only recently started to really find our form.

But like, whatever.

Pointing out 2 favorable stats and ignoring how many other negative stats? You're really reaching. Being 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TD's doesn't mean very much when....

We're 19th in total scoring
We're tied for 27th in rushing TD's
We're tied for 27th in FG attempts

Despite having Mike Evans (10th in the NFL in yards/1st in TD's), Chris Godwin (leading the team in receptions), & Rachaad White (3rd in the NFL in RB yards from scrimmage/7th in the NFL), we only managed 36 total TD's which puts us tied for 18th in the league.

Apparently, 2 stats make Baker Mayfield look good, and in your opinion, worthy of promoting... while many other stats make the offense that he runs, look bleh. So, if it's not Mayfield's fault for out mediocre to below average scoring, who's is it? Bowles? Should he be fired for bringing everyone down? Canales? Should he be fired because the offense only makes 2 aspects of Mayfield look good?

Or should we realize that out mediocre offense is lead by a mediocre QB and we're producing mediocre numbers and a mediocre record?

Or do we just focus on 2 particular stats and say "But like, whatever"?

I posted them all. He is top ten in every stat passing other than QBR (13th), Completion %, TTT, and sacks allowed are in the 20s. So stop with that BS narrative that he has bad stats all around

[Bootz]

We could miraculously win the Superbowl with Baker this year and people still say we need to tank to get a QB who can be a franchise QB.

[Grahamburn]

Cleveland is dominant on defense. That’s why they’re winning.

I’d tank for Myles Garrett.

The Browns are giving up 1 less point per game this year than when Mayfield was there in 2021... when they went 8-9. The Browns are dominant? They're giving up 20.7 ppg (11th)... we're giving up 20.3 (9th). Are we dominant too?

Oh come on.

[CannonFire]

Maybe will be the worst... but the team is still better because of it. You do know that prior to the injury, the Browns were 5-1 with Watson, right?

What argument can I make? This year, the Browns are 11th in points against and 1st in yards against. In 2021, when the Browns were 8-9 (6-8 with Mayfield, 2-0 with Keenum), their defense was 13th in points against and 5 in yards against. The two teams weren't all that far apart.

I don't think they are better because of it. Clearly a QB off the scrap heap can be successful on that team. So paying the most guaranteed money of all time and a bunch of draft picks for a mediocre QB did not make them better. They are a good roster with a good coach, that is a good situation for a QB.

2021 Baker is not 2023 Baker. I don't know how you can watch the Browns QB play this year and think Baker would be some massive downgrade for them. In fact, a very common narrative this season has been how awful the Watson trade was when the Browns could have just kept Baker. Because the TEAM is so good.

We'll see how it plays out. Personally, I think Watson is a jerk and I'd prefer that things don't go well for the team because of the signing, that said, he's produced in the past. Getting his legs under him and back into the flow of things may be all he needs to get back to star level production. If he does, that deal will most certainly be worth it. The best part of that deal though, was moving on from a guy who's a mediocre QB who people... for some reason, think he's better than what he is (wink, wink), and upgrade at the position.

You're right, Baker 2021 is not Baker 2023. Baker 2021 was coming off a playoff caliber season where from a QBR standpoint, was better than what he is now. In 2021, he was in the second year of the system and he regressed. Basically, we're getting Baker 2020. Next year, we'll get Baker 2021... if we stick with him. Yeah, I'll pass.

Yeah, that narrative is from people who don't like Watson on a personal level. I don't like him either, screw him... but the talent is there and not only the talent, the production (historically). Production that no one has ever seen from Mayfield.

[CannonFire]

Pointing out 2 favorable stats and ignoring how many other negative stats? You're really reaching. Being 2nd in plays over 40 yards and 4th in passing TD's doesn't mean very much when....

We're 19th in total scoring
We're tied for 27th in rushing TD's
We're tied for 27th in FG attempts

Despite having Mike Evans (10th in the NFL in yards/1st in TD's), Chris Godwin (leading the team in receptions), & Rachaad White (3rd in the NFL in RB yards from scrimmage/7th in the NFL), we only managed 36 total TD's which puts us tied for 18th in the league.

Apparently, 2 stats make Baker Mayfield look good, and in your opinion, worthy of promoting... while many other stats make the offense that he runs, look bleh. So, if it's not Mayfield's fault for out mediocre to below average scoring, who's is it? Bowles? Should he be fired for bringing everyone down? Canales? Should he be fired because the offense only makes 2 aspects of Mayfield look good?

Or should we realize that out mediocre offense is lead by a mediocre QB and we're producing mediocre numbers and a mediocre record?

Or do we just focus on 2 particular stats and say "But like, whatever"?

I posted them all. He is top ten in every stat passing other than QBR (13th), Completion %, TTT, and sacks allowed are in the 20s. So stop with that BS narrative that he has bad stats all around

I didn't say he has bad stats all around. That's you creating my argument and debating against that. I've said all along that he's a mediocre QB who yields mediocre results. We're 8-8... I'm not sure how much more mediocre you can get than that. Our offense, which he leads, is mediocre. Our scoring, our yardage, our opportunities... they're all "meh". It's because he's a "meh" QB. Look, as a stop gap, he's fine. No problem. But he isn't a solution. Now, if the Bucs want to give him a 2 yr / $50M deal (no guarantees/no bonuses), with $20M in 2024, fine... as long as we draft his replacement. If he warrants keeping for 2025, then pay him the $30M and then move on to the kid in 2026. One thing that everyone will need to understand is that 2024 will be a carbon copy of 2023. We'll be a 7 to 9 win team where strength of schedule dictates whether we are 7 or less... or 9 or more, it certainly won't be because Mayfield was better or worse than this year. He was, is, and always will be a "meh" QB.

[CannonFire]

The Browns are giving up 1 less point per game this year than when Mayfield was there in 2021... when they went 8-9. The Browns are dominant? They're giving up 20.7 ppg (11th)... we're giving up 20.3 (9th). Are we dominant too?

Oh come on.

Great point, I'm convinced!

The Browns do have a very good defense, it's not dominant.

[Grahamburn]

Oh come on.

Great point, I'm convinced!

The Browns do have a very good defense, it's not dominant.

They lead the league in yards allowed. Lead the league in fewest first downs allowed and lead that category by a margin of 46. First in expected points contributed. Second in defensive DVOA. 3rd most turnovers created. They are most assuredly dominant.

[CannonFire]

Great point, I'm convinced!

The Browns do have a very good defense, it's not dominant.

They lead the league in yards allowed. Lead the league in fewest first downs allowed and lead that category by a margin of 46. First in expected points contributed. Second in defensive DVOA. 3rd most turnovers created. They are most assuredly dominant.

Had to be a hard road against all those really bad/backup/rookie QB's they faced, huh?