Baker Mayfield: PAID

[Grahamburn]

Baker as a Buc vs. all other NFL QBs:

1st in Pass TDs
2nd in yards
3rd in completions
3rd in TD%
7th in passer rating
8th in completion %
9th in yards per attempt

Not top 10? I'd love to hear the argument. Most interceptions (26) you say? Yes, true. Mahomes has 25 in 32 games. Allen and Goff have 24. Purdy 23 in 31 games. Love 22 in 32 games. Guys that are asked to throw the ball a lot turn it over occasionally.

[Buc2]

Baker as a Buc vs. all other NFL QBs:

1st in Pass TDs
2nd in yards
3rd in completions
3rd in TD%
7th in passer rating
8th in completion %
9th in yards per attempt

Not top 10? I'd love to hear the argument. Most interceptions (26) you say? Yes, true. Mahomes has 25. Allen and Goff have 24. Guys that are asked to throw the ball a lot turn it over occasionally.

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he can't possibly be Top 10.

[Grahamburn]

Baker as a Buc vs. all other NFL QBs:

1st in Pass TDs
2nd in yards
3rd in completions
3rd in TD%
7th in passer rating
8th in completion %
9th in yards per attempt

Not top 10? I'd love to hear the argument. Most interceptions (26) you say? Yes, true. Mahomes has 25. Allen and Goff have 24. Guys that are asked to throw the ball a lot turn it over occasionally.

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he can't possibly be Top 10.

Some in the fan-base just can't get out of their own way.

[Bootz]

Using stats to dictate QB rankings Still I see.

You kiddos never learn. If the argument is STATS, yea Baker is top 5. But actual Quarterbacking? Top 15-20 all day.

Otherwise there shouldn't be a soul who would take Patrick Mahomes over Baker Mayfield. Anyone want to go that route?

[__Chef__]

Using stats to dictate QB rankings Still I see.

You kiddos never learn. If the argument is STATS, yea Baker is top 5. But actual Quarterbacking? Top 15-20 all day.

Otherwise there shouldn't be a soul who would take Patrick Mahomes over Baker Mayfield. Anyone want to go that route?

I don't think anyone would realistically take Mayfield over Mahomes, but man ... Mahomes' performance in our SB and in the last one is really taking the shine off his brand. Granted, he has (hopefully) many more years to build on, but that confidence instilling in your team ... that "hey, it's not over ... we've got X over here, and we are going to find a way to win it" ... it was at a 100% ... now, somewhere south of that.

Putting it a different way, if we had Mahomes on this team, what does our record look like? Are we instantly in SB conversations? Are we instant SB favorites to win it? Honestly thinking about it, I don't know. I think we beat Washington. Even though our Defense never forced a punt, I don't see Mahomes missing an opportunity to score on every touch. If we made it to the big dance and faced a Chiefs team lead by Mayfield, who wins? Their defense was light years ahead of ours. Offensively, I'd say we had/have more weapons. As we've seen time and time again though, Defense wins championships ... I'd have to lean Chiefs, even without a superior QB.

[Bootz]

Using stats to dictate QB rankings Still I see.

You kiddos never learn. If the argument is STATS, yea Baker is top 5. But actual Quarterbacking? Top 15-20 all day.

Otherwise there shouldn't be a soul who would take Patrick Mahomes over Baker Mayfield. Anyone want to go that route?

I don't think anyone would realistically take Mayfield over Mahomes,

Why not? Baker had better numbers.

[__Chef__]

I don't think anyone would realistically take Mayfield over Mahomes,

Why not? Baker had better numbers.

Mahomes has proven to be a SB winner. I wrote a longer more detailed reply and realized it really only boils down to this.

[Bootz]

Why not? Baker had better numbers.

Mahomes has proven to be a SB winner. I wrote a longer more detailed reply and realized it really only boils down to this.

Exactly. Makes me kinda chuckle when people trying using stats as justification for QB rankings.

[Grahamburn]

What should we use? Jock-strap size?

[BucsNBills]

Name the 14 QBs better than Baker.

[acmillis]

Name the 14 QBs better than Baker.

Kyle Trask*14

/thread

/blue

[Buc2]

Mahomes has proven to be a SB winner. I wrote a longer more detailed reply and realized it really only boils down to this.

Exactly. Makes me kinda chuckle when people trying using stats as justification for QB rankings.

Who is putting Mayfield above Mahomes?

[Bootz]

Exactly. Makes me kinda chuckle when people trying using stats as justification for QB rankings.

Who is putting Mayfield above Mahomes?

If you're using stats as the basis for QB rankings, should be anyone doing so. Mayfield has had better numbers than Mahomes has as of late.

My point is QB rankings shouldn't be based off of stats.

[Buc2]

Who is putting Mayfield above Mahomes?

If you're using stats as the basis for QB rankings, should be anyone doing so. Mayfield has had better numbers than Mahomes has as of late.

My point is QB rankings shouldn't be based off of stats.

Stats are stats. We all know there is more to the game than just stats. If that were the case, then the GOAT wouldn't be the GOAT. The argument I'm making is based of Mayfield's performance, since he's been with the Bucs, puts him in the discussion as a top 10 QB. I still stand by that. Mahomes, at worse, is top 3.

[Grahamburn]

There are currently 6 active Super Bowl winning QB's. Mahomes, Hurts, Stafford, Rodgers (I guess he's active?), and Joe Flacco. So, how do you rank the other guys if you don't use their statistics as QBs in the NFL? Are those guys the top 6? I don't understand the argument that it's laughable to use statistics to rank QBs.

Regular season wins? Mayfield is currently 13th. Behind Taysom Hill.

So, what metrics do we use to rank them?

[Grahamburn]

Active QB playoff wins? Baker (2-3) only has 2. Tied for 13th. One behind the Golden Boy and perennial top 3 QB Lamar Jackson (3-5) but a better winning percentage in his opportunities.

[Buc2]

There are currently 6 active Super Bowl winning QB's. Mahomes, Hurts, Stafford, Rodgers (I guess he's active?), and Joe Flacco. So, how do you rank the other guys if you don't use their statistics as QBs in the NFL? Are those guys the top 6? I don't understand the argument that it's laughable to use statistics to rank QBs.

Regular season wins? Mayfield is currently 13th. Behind Taysom Hill.

So, what metrics do we use to rank them?

No one is arguing that side of the coin either. Of course stats play a roll. Stats. Intangibles. Leadership. The teams around them. It all has a part to play in the game.

[Grahamburn]

There are currently 6 active Super Bowl winning QB's. Mahomes, Hurts, Stafford, Rodgers (I guess he's active?), and Joe Flacco. So, how do you rank the other guys if you don't use their statistics as QBs in the NFL? Are those guys the top 6? I don't understand the argument that it's laughable to use statistics to rank QBs.

Regular season wins? Mayfield is currently 13th. Behind Taysom Hill.

So, what metrics do we use to rank them?

No one is arguing that side of the coin either. Of course stats play a roll. Stats. Intangibles. Leadership. The teams around them. It all has a part to play in the game.

Someone is.

[Grahamburn]

There are currently 6 active Super Bowl winning QB's. Mahomes, Hurts, Stafford, Rodgers (I guess he's active?), and Joe Flacco. So, how do you rank the other guys if you don't use their statistics as QBs in the NFL? Are those guys the top 6? I don't understand the argument that it's laughable to use statistics to rank QBs.

Regular season wins? Mayfield is currently 13th. Behind Taysom Hill.

So, what metrics do we use to rank them?

No one is arguing that side of the coin either. Of course stats play a roll. Stats. Intangibles. Leadership. The teams around them. It all has a part to play in the game.

Someone is.

[Doctor]

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he can't possibly be Top 10.

He's also not a pure breed QB, being in multiple teams so early. To some that is a permanent scarlet letter.

[Sooner06]

Stats are only an outline, like back in the day when they used to sell those coloring books to kids and you had to connect the dots to see what you were going to color in. Stats aren't the whole picture. If they were, then people could argue that Frank Gore was a better RB than Barry Sanders, lol.

You have to look at tape. Did they consistently make the layups or did they struggle too often. Did they successfully read the D presnap and make good decisions most of the time.

You have to look at skillsets. Can they make all the throws. timing routes, layered passes between the LBs/Ss. Dimes down the sidelines deep. tight window dots. Etc.


Look at context, like how they performed in big games/playoff games. Did they sgtep up or shrink on the biggest stages under the brightest lights.


And when you do all of that, taking in the stats, the tape, skillsets, and the context, Baker is better than all but 5-9 starting QBs going into 2025.

But part of the difficulty with trying to rank this season's QBs (the last 3-4 seasons really) is that there's a lot of fluidity between the 4th and the 15th (or so) QBs. Russ, AR, Cousins, Dak, Carr, TL, and Geno fell off last season, and most of those guys aren't likely to rebound. Then, guys like Lamar, Goff, hurts bounced up a little. Bottom line, there was more movement in the middle ranks than we've seen in some time.

But Baker's trajectory since leaving CAR has been steadily upward, in spite of having to start all over again for the fourth time, having to learn a new offense for the 5th time, with a new OC for the 9th time, develop another relationship with his 7th HC. Oh, and develop chemistry with his teammates again for nth time.

Few (if any) of those other QBs have had to do anything like that. Actually, none have had to do it as many times as Baker. Pretty much every one of those guys have had the luxury of the same HC/OC/system, with the same teammates. And yet, Baker was more successful than just about all of them.


Bottom line, there's only a handful or so of QBs that have the arm strength, arm talent that Baker does (or better), as well as the football IQ and the ability to level up their games in the biggest moments. The rest of them are just simply, less.

[Jonny]

Let's see the new list!

Per ChatGPT, he is.
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NFL QB Rankings.jpg
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Baker Mayfield.jpg

ChatGPT's left wing bias is showing even in football. Again, I find it baffling that sports media buffoons and now AI are ready to anoint Stroud even after he had some regression, some of which had to do with horrid O-line. But without turning in a good year, how do you stay as a top 10 QB? And don't even get me started on Justin Herbert. He reminds me of an Al Pacino line in Glengarry Glen Ross "I don't care whose nephew you are, who you know, whose dick you're sucking on, you're going out!".

[Jonny]

Who is putting Mayfield above Mahomes?

If you're using stats as the basis for QB rankings, should be anyone doing so. Mayfield has had better numbers than Mahomes has as of late.

My point is QB rankings shouldn't be based off of stats.

Welcome to Bootz. He will criticize you for your subjective criteria by making assumption we are all going by stats, when most of us have Mahomes as the best QB despite not having good stats for 3 years.

At the same time he will not justify what makes Baker 15-20 and who those 15-19 are that are ahead of him.

Why don't you tell us why you have him as middle of the road? I will make my case for why he was the 5th best. You start.

[CannonFire]

That's not a joke. He's not a top 10 qb. You thinking he is makes you a joke.

Over his career to date I can agree that he's not a top 10 QB (yet). Since he's been in a Bucs uniform, I don't believe mentioning him being a top 10 QB is out of the realm of believability.

That's fine.

[CannonFire]

That's not a joke. He's not a top 10 qb. You thinking he is makes you a joke.

Over his career to date I can agree that he's not a top 10 QB (yet). Since he's been in a Bucs uniform, I don't believe mentioning him being a top 10 QB is out of the realm of believability.

That's fine. To note, by this logic, Tua should've been mentioned in of Top 10 heading into last year. Willing to bet NO ONE outside of Miami, made that argument.

[CannonFire]

Let's see the new list!

Per ChatGPT, he is.
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NFL QB Rankings.jpg
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Baker Mayfield.jpg

So chatgpt says that it took a career year for Mayfield to sneak into the top 10?

[CannonFire]

That's not a joke. He's not a top 10 qb. You thinking he is makes you a joke.

Let's see the new list!

Ask and you shall receive....

Special - These guys make your team better, regardless of what team they're on. These are ranked (I'm confident on 1 & 2, put 3-5 in any order you want).
Patrick Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert

Not Special - These guys are "guys". They're starters and worth having. The will produce based on the talent around them. Listed alphabetically, because they're all interchangeable.
Kirk Cousins
Jayden Daniels
Sam Darnold
Jared Goff
Jalen Hurts
Trevor Lawrence
Jordan Love
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray
Dak Prescott
Brock Purdy
Aaron Rodgers
Geno Smith
Matthew Stafford
C.J. Stroud
Tua Tagovailoa
Russell Wilson

Backup - If these guys are your starters, be worried. Though, anything can happen. Listed alphabetically.
Mac Jones
Will Levis
Anthony Richardson
Deshaun Watson
Jameis Winston

TBD - Not exactly sure where to put them yet. Need more time. Listed alphabetically.
*Justin Fields
Daniel Jones
Drake Maye
J.J. McCarthy
*Gardner Minshew
Bo Nix
Michael Penix
Caleb Williams
Bryce Young

* - I'm leaning towards "Backup".

[CannonFire]

Baker as a Buc vs. all other NFL QBs:

1st in Pass TDs
2nd in yards
3rd in completions
3rd in TD%
7th in passer rating
8th in completion %
9th in yards per attempt

Not top 10? I'd love to hear the argument. Most interceptions (26) you say? Yes, true. Mahomes has 25. Allen and Goff have 24. Guys that are asked to throw the ball a lot turn it over occasionally.

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he can't possibly be Top 10.

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he has to be Top 10. Weird how it seems to go both ways, huh?

[Buc2]

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he can't possibly be Top 10.

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he has to be Top 10. Weird how it seems to go both ways, huh?

Yes. Both can be true.

[mdb1958]

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he has to be Top 10. Weird how it seems to go both ways, huh?

Yes. Both can be true.

Right now all that matters. Is what will he be in 2025?

[mdb1958]

He is 2025 plug and play Mayfield and he needs to mesh well with all ten who fight with him.

[Doctor]

Let's see the new list!

Ask and you shall receive....

Or not. You were asked for a top ten and you gave a top 5.... Then FIFTEEN names.

Never thought I'd see a football message board post dripping with such.... cowardice.

[CannonFire]

Ask and you shall receive....

Or not. You were asked for a top ten and you gave a top 5.... Then FIFTEEN names.

Never thought I'd see a football message board post dripping with such.... cowardice.

Ok, he's ranked 50th.

He's not better than 10 people. He's not better than 22 people.... and he's definitely worse than at least 5.

[CannonFire]

Baker is a Buc. To some, that fact alone means he has to be Top 10. Weird how it seems to go both ways, huh?

Yes. Both can be true.

Not really. To some, it means you think he sucks if he's not in the top 10.

[mdb1958]

Yes. Both can be true.

Not really. To some, it means you think he sucks if he's not in the top 10.

To many, it's beyond tiresome.