***Official 2023 NFL Draft Thread***

[Phantom]

Do we use high pick to draft another LSU linebacker to replace White?

We sure do love LSU LBers

[Cheb]

If we trade away Devin White and get a second round pick for it, I would absolutely love to get Jack Campbell from Iowa to replace him in the 2nd. He may not be as twitchy as Bowles likes his middle backers, but the dude plays very good ball against both the run and pass.

[mdb1958]

If we trade away Devin White and get a second round pick for it, I would absolutely love to get Jack Campbell from Iowa to replace him in the 2nd. He may not be as twitchy as Bowles likes his middle backers, but the dude plays very good ball against both the run and pass.

All offseason long I've been trading down into the 2nd for extra picks.

[mdb1958]

I've been seeing Christian Gonzalez and Broderick Jones falling to us on some sims - who do we pick?

[Doctor]

Gonzalez.

This draft lacks A+ talent but it sure is thick with A-/B+ guys. There are 50 dudes that could justifiably go in the first. OT and CB are also some of the thickest, but I have Gonzalez and Witherspoon a good fat tier above the rest. Meanwhile, Jones is in fat tier with a lot of other players I'd be just as happy with like Wright.

[MJW]

If we trade away Devin White and get a second round pick for it, I would absolutely love to get Jack Campbell from Iowa to replace him in the 2nd. He may not be as twitchy as Bowles likes his middle backers, but the dude plays very good ball against both the run and pass.

I don't love Campbell. I don't see the kind of agility/lateral movement skills it takes to be great. IMHO is clearly behind Simpson and Sanders and probably behind a few others.

[mdb1958]

If we trade away Devin White and get a second round pick for it, I would absolutely love to get Jack Campbell from Iowa to replace him in the 2nd. He may not be as twitchy as Bowles likes his middle backers, but the dude plays very good ball against both the run and pass.

I don't love Campbell. I don't see the kind of agility/lateral movement skills it takes to be great. IMHO is clearly behind Simpson and Sanders and probably behind a few others.

Glad to hear you want to cross train the linebackers too.

[Phantom]

If we trade away Devin White and get a second round pick for it, I would absolutely love to get Jack Campbell from Iowa to replace him in the 2nd. He may not be as twitchy as Bowles likes his middle backers, but the dude plays very good ball against both the run and pass.

I

I don't love Campbell. I don't see the kind of agility/lateral movement skills it takes to be great. IMHO is clearly behind Simpson and Sanders and probably behind a few others.

I don’t either

Drew Sanders>Jack Campbell

Watch the tape

[BuccaNOLEer]

I've been seeing Christian Gonzalez and Broderick Jones falling to us on some sims - who do we pick?

Jones. The guy is a mauler. He will be your anchor at LT for the next ten years barring injury.

[Grahamburn]

I would also choose Jones. We already have Davis and Dean. Jones would keep Wirfs where he's dominant. You're building a nice line of vets and younger guys either for a reinvigorated Baker or a young QB.

[Selmon Rules]

I would also choose Jones. We already have Davis and Dean. Jones would keep Wirfs where he's dominant. You're building a nice line of vets and younger guys either for a reinvigorated Baker or a young QB.

Ditto, rather have dominant O-line than just about anything

Unless a team is loaded, it should always pick 3 players in the first round. Someone to keep QB clean, someone to get opposing QB dirty, and your own QB.

Until you have those, the rest really doesn't matter

[Doctor]

Jones is a total JL pick. There are a lot of great players in this draft to be had at 19.

[MJW]

Jones is a total JL pick. There are a lot of great players in this draft to be had at 19.

Are we talking about Broderick? He'd be a great get. But the tape and the measurables make me think he'll be gone.

On that topic, here's how I see it:

Gone, Don't Even Bother Talking About Barring Trade-up:
- CJ Stroud
- Bryce Young
- Will Anderson
- Christian Gonzalez
- Jalen Carter
- Anthony Richardson
- Tyree Wilson
- Paris Johnson Jr.

I'm Not Expecting Them There, And I'm Not Getting My Hopes Up Either Way:
- Will Levis
- Bijan Robinson
- Peter Skoronski
- Broderick Jones
- Dalton Kincaid
- Lukas Van Ness

The Sweet Spot (For Me:)

- Darnell Wright. He's a RT only, but I'm 100% on board with Wirfs moving over.
- Myles Murphy. He's like William Gholston after taking the Super Soldier Serum.
- Joey Porter Jr. Best pure man cover corner in this draft, and he plays with the same edge as his dad.
- Nolan Smith. The bust factor is real, but it wouldn't be surprising if he became the next Justin Houston.
- Will McDonald. Straight up natural born pass rusher.
- Brian Branch. Literally my favorite on this list. Future Pro Bowler.
- Dawand Jones. He seems a bit rich, but easily the 2nd best OL tape I watched this year (behind Skoronski.)
- Calijah Kancey. I'm old enough to remember not wanting Aaron Donald because he didn't have a clear role at the time. Not again.
- Darnell Washington. He's moved ahead of Mayer for me. He blocks like a right tackle, has the wingspan of an NBA power forward, and runs with the ball like the Juggernaut.

[Phantom]

If bucs trade up, it’ll be either Levis and Hooker

[mdb1958]

If bucs trade up, it’ll be either Levis and Hooker

For me - only Tyree Wilson.

[MJW]

If bucs trade up, it’ll be either Levis and Hooker

If we draft Hooker in the first round, it'll be a monumental mistake.

If we trade up for the chance, it'll end up on the Jason Licht Mt. Rushmore of Shame, between Roberto Aguayo and Anthony Collins.

[mdb1958]

If bucs trade up, it’ll be either Levis and Hooker

For me - only Tyree Wilson.

Just ran a sim on auto and we gave up 19, 50, and Mike Evans for 6, Tyree Wilson.

Do not like

[mdb1958]

How would Blake Freeland look for us?

[Bootz]

If we trade away Devin White and get a second round pick for it, I would absolutely love to get Jack Campbell from Iowa to replace him in the 2nd. He may not be as twitchy as Bowles likes his middle backers, but the dude plays very good ball against both the run and pass.

I don't love Campbell. I don't see the kind of agility/lateral movement skills it takes to be great. IMHO is clearly behind Simpson and Sanders and probably behind a few others.

He would've been great if this were the 2003 draft.

[Nobody]

I’m likely never going back to pouring over tape like I used to in prospect evals, and I don’t have the time for it right now…but…given our LB situation, I’ve taken a little bit of time to look at a few players. I really only like one of the three, and especially for value; Williams. However, Sanders is the Bowles archetype so I’d figure he is the most likely pick.

Jack Campbell: Weird prospect. He showed absurd change-of-direction and explosive movement (3-Cone snd Broad Jump were nuts) at the combine but man does that not show up in his tape. He’s an assignment sound player, a huge frame and toolkit for taking on climbers + stack/shed and he uses the same to be a thorn in Hole in 2 and 3 zone. He shows sufficient instincts to disrupt QB reads/find threats as a hole defender and as a B to B gap fit-player. But man. That combine does not show up on tape. Too many “plodder” snaps on film. And, in space, his overall processing loop + explosivity in getting to/resolving assignments is just not great. His click-and-close is labored much of the time. Surprising.

I’d pass to be honest.

Drew Sanders: Converted Edge with athleticism and it shows as he’s physical and explosive. This looks like a bigger Devin White part 2 (but in the 2nd round). Instincts and discipline are lacking everywhere but he can absolutely get downhill to blitz/pursue as a Spill/Fill defender on the edge, and/or line up on-ball and attack (and he’s got a decent technical toolkit for that). But processing, instincts, discipline in both pursuit and finding eligibles in Zone are raw, inconsistent, and sometimes outright rough (you see missed finishes and wildly missed tackles in edge pursuit/space and totally aloof snaps in Zone).

This is the archetype for Bowles apparently so it wouldn’t surprise me if they went this route. But prepare for growing pains with these instincts/processing/discipline deficiencies.

Dorian Williams: YES. 3rd round especially? Absolutely. Fantastic value. Easy mover and omnidirectionally so. Instinctive player and good processor in space, stacked, on-ball, moving backward, moving laterally. Great feel for both Hole and Flat Zone assignments. Physical and technically sound attacking both ball carriers and blowing up/disrupting catch points. Diagnoses Screens and beats climbing OP to the ball. He will struggle some in B to B fits with dealing with climbers and making plays, but that is the only weakness I’m seeing. Reminds me a bit of a smaller, better Germaine Pratt (player I wanted in the 3rd in the draft we took White I think) who has turned into an excellent ball player in Cincy. He’s just smaller and a better mover than Pratt (and his processor looks better right now as Pratt was a converted DB).

Trade up mid 3rd for this kid. He’s got a lot of LVD look to him on tape. I doubt we go this route, but this is the guy I’d draft (and at the perfect value spot).

[mdb1958]

Jack Campbell's similar athletic profile compares to TJ Watt - according to the combine.

I also like Dorian Williams.

I need to know which players brains can react as well as LVD's.

[MJW]

I’m likely never going back to pouring over tape like I used to in prospect evals, and I don’t have the time for it right now…but…given our LB situation, I’ve taken a little bit of time to look at a few players. I really only like one of the three, and especially for value; Williams. However, Sanders is the Bowles archetype so I’d figure he is the most likely pick.

Jack Campbell: Weird prospect. He showed absurd change-of-direction and explosive movement (3-Cone snd Broad Jump were nuts) at the combine but man does that not show up in his tape. He’s an assignment sound player, a huge frame and toolkit for taking on climbers + stack/shed and he uses the same to be a thorn in Hole in 2 and 3 zone. He shows sufficient instincts to disrupt QB reads/find threats as a hole defender and as a B to B gap fit-player. But man. That combine does not show up on tape. Too many “plodder” snaps on film. And, in space, his overall processing loop + explosivity in getting to/resolving assignments is just not great. His click-and-close is labored much of the time. Surprising.

I’d pass to be honest.

Drew Sanders: Converted Edge with athleticism and it shows as he’s physical and explosive. This looks like a bigger Devin White part 2 (but in the 2nd round). Instincts and discipline are lacking everywhere but he can absolutely get downhill to blitz/pursue as a Spill/Fill defender on the edge, and/or line up on-ball and attack (and he’s got a decent technical toolkit for that). But processing, instincts, discipline in both pursuit and finding eligibles in Zone are raw, inconsistent, and sometimes outright rough (you see missed finishes and wildly missed tackles in edge pursuit/space and totally aloof snaps in Zone).

This is the archetype for Bowles apparently so it wouldn’t surprise me if they went this route. But prepare for growing pains with these instincts/processing/discipline deficiencies.

Dorian Williams: YES. 3rd round especially? Absolutely. Fantastic value. Easy mover and omnidirectionally so. Instinctive player and good processor in space, stacked, on-ball, moving backward, moving laterally. Great feel for both Hole and Flat Zone assignments. Physical and technically sound attacking both ball carriers and blowing up/disrupting catch points. Diagnoses Screens and beats climbing OP to the ball. He will struggle some in B to B fits with dealing with climbers and making plays, but that is the only weakness I’m seeing. Reminds me a bit of a smaller, better Germaine Pratt (player I wanted in the 3rd in the draft we took White I think) who has turned into an excellent ball player in Cincy. He’s just smaller and a better mover than Pratt (and his processor looks better right now as Pratt was a converted DB).

Trade up mid 3rd for this kid. He’s got a lot of LVD look to him on tape. I doubt we go this route, but this is the guy I’d draft (and at the perfect value spot).

ON CAMPBELL: Agreed. I was shocked at those workout numbers. I see a stiff, boxy, mechanical player on tape, and I watched a lot of Iowa this year. I think his ceiling is two downs. I wouldn't be looking at him before the 4th or so, but someone else will, perhaps someone who asks a little less sideline to sideline movement from the position.

ON SANDERS: Traits and versatility. Keep in mind, he's only been playing off the ball for a season. I could easily see him developing into one of the best defensive players in this draft. And I agree, his ability to do different things probably has Bowles salivating.

ON WILLIAMS: I had the same LVD thoughts. He's not huge, but he's fast, and he processes quickly.

[Cheb]

Jack Campbell's similar athletic profile compares to TJ Watt - according to the combine.

I also like Dorian Williams.

I need to know which players brains can react as well as LVD's.

That's a holy grail of scouting, and if there were a way to reliably do so NFL teams would already be doing it.

LVD's instincts are a high bar to clear. They were good as a young player coming out of college, but now they're about as good as instincts can get. Lavonte David is right below Ray Lewis and Luke Kuechly for the best linebacker instincts I've ever seen. Couple that with his absurd snap-to-snap consistency and I don't know if there's a young dude in the draft who comes close to equating that, nor do I think it's really fair to expect to find that in the players you're scouting. LVD is in another level, and some guy in his early 20s isn't going to even come close to approaching LVD's mental processing. There's a reason he's a shoo-in for the Ring of Honor at the very least, and it's in large part because he's such an excellent player above the neck that it makes everything else look faster.

[Nobody]

Yup. There is no way to lock in the answer to the question “is this (defensive) player a good processor or not.” However, there are ways to develop a general cognitive profile for a player. Its still just a proxy, but combined with enough snaps reviewed and enough metrics, it can suffice to provide some measure of accuracy. Things I look for:

* If they’re on-ball and its a run/pass down (not 3rd and long), how quickly are they reading their run fit keys and then either (a) performing the assignment necessaries of their run fit vs the run play in front of them or (b) how quickly are they getting up the field and into their rush plan post-snap (1st step and quartering/getting first strike in hand usage for rush suite or forcing an overset if its a Speed Rush) if its a pass?

* If they’re off-ball, box defender, how quickly and accurately are they reading their run keys and getting into their fit if run or getting to landmark if zone?

* If Zone, while in pedal/bail, how well are they (a) diagnosing threats to their primary responsibility and covering them up, (b) diagnosing route concepts in front of them that are dressing to trick them into vacating the “high” portion of (a) above, (c) how well do they read the QB ONLY AFTER they’ve secured the integrity of (a) and (b), and (d) how quick is their click & close (how quick do they identify and how quickly does their cognitive loop kick their musculoskeletal system into gear)?

* Generally, do they take false/inefficient steps in the processing phase(s) of their assignment? Body and technical inefficiency is often (though not always) a sign of “mental hiccups” or labored mental processing (so if you see it coupled with other processing issues, its a good marker).

* Generally, are they consistent with assignment-soundness snap in and snap out? If they aren’t that means they’re almost surely any/all labored/poor mental processors or undisciplined in their cognitive process (using “mental hacks” that don’t work) or don’t have enough respect for their craft to put in the work to cognitively develop.

* Generally (after you’ve confirmed they’re consistently assignment-sound), are they almost always around the ball and are they making freakishly “heady” plays that are uncommon?

++++++++

Ronde, DB, and LVD are the Buc standards for this. When you couple the reality that LVD has been in more defenses, with more assignment variance than any great LB I can think of, its an astonishing intangible to his what should be a shoe-in HoF resume.

DB, Lewis, Kuechly, Urlacher, Wagner? Pretty much universally played in the same defense and same position their whole careers. LVD? 4 legitimately different defenses and at least that many positions (you can make a case for 5).

[mdb1958]

I do not know truthfully if we can get any defensive players that can change the weaknesses on our defensive line but if they are identified and we get them we will be much better for it.

[mdb1958]

@Cheb Would it be asking to much to have a team train Adetomiwa Adebawore much in the same way Calijah Kancey will be trained?

[Cheb]

@Cheb Would it be asking to much to have a team train Adetomiwa Adebawore much in the same way Calijah Kancey will be trained?

No.

Both are a bit too short in both height and length for the outside, and both a bit undersized for the interior. They would both do well as nickel and sub package passrushers out the gate with situational reps on the first two downs. They play the game very differently, but both players I imagine will have many of the same responsibilities as pros. How well they do as pros is going to depend alot on where they go and what their defenses ask them to do.

[Bootz]

[Phantom]

Damn was hoping CJ Stroud

[Sdbucs]

Darnell Washington seems really underrated on big boards. Has Gronks measurables and plays a good game. Great blocker

[mdb1958]

Lets be sure to stay slow on defense..

[Phantom]

I felt bad for Houston. They want Young lol they’re stuck with CJ Stroud

BetMGM moved Young from -350 to -2000, meaning that at this point you’d have to risk $2,000 just to make $100 betting on Young to go first overall.

[Doctor]

Fuck. I was also hoping it'd be CJ.

[Kona]

Fuck. I was also hoping it'd be CJ.

Same. Bryce has the IT factor when watching him play. Let’s hope he busts hard lol

[Deja Entendu]