The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

[Bootz]

After the Bucs start 2-5, will it be the QB's fault or will the blame go for the team as a whole?

You must be a new Bucs fan. Here's how this works.

When we're winning: It's because of whoever people have decided they like most at the time. This person is ALWAYS a player and never one that has been "unanimously" dumped on.

When we're losing: It's because of the HC and/or whatever position coach people decide they like the least. This person can sometimes be a player. It'll be said player that gets "unanimously" dumped on. But 85% of the time It'll be because of coaching.

[Buc2]

After the Bucs start 2-5, will it be the QB's fault or will the blame go for the team as a whole?

You must be a new Bucs fan. Here's how this works.

When we're winning: It's because of whoever people have decided they like most at the time. This person is ALWAYS a player and never one that has been "unanimously" dumped on.

When we're losing: It's because of the HC and/or whatever position coach people decide they like the least. This person can sometimes be a player. It'll be said player that gets "unanimously" dumped on. But 85% of the time It'll be because of coaching.

Like I said. Bowles.

[Doctor]

Some are going to take this the wrong way but Baker has strong Cam Newton energy. When things are rolling he's great to roll with, but when things are down he's not been a guy to claw you out of it.

The schedule will play a major role, particularly if Philly, Buffalo and SF are in the front or back end. If they are in the front, we could see a lot of panic reshuffling in several positions trying to "find what works". If they are in the back and we can sharpen our teeth and gell off the likes of the Texans, Kitties, Packers and such, we'll be better for it.

PSA: The schedule comes out next week.

[Bootz]

Problem is things have never been rolling

[Doctor]

We must watch different games. It seems some of you view the sport as a beauty pageant where the prettiest takes all. I view the sport more akin war, often times a battle of attrition, where the best team often does not win for a variety of reasons. You need hedges, contingencies, and fall backs.

I don't get what's so appealing about putting all your eggs in one basket. What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?

What warrants hype for one QB who sat behind a GOAT for years before taking over and depression for another one?
30 draft spots? The fact that one team went balls deep no hedge? Both of those are nonsensical reasons detached from the game.

Rare moment @Bootz doesn't have a response....

[Snake]

“What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?”

The upside that you have a franchise QB for 10-15+ years instead of playing QB musical chairs for a decade at a time.

[MJW]

“What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?”

The upside that you have a franchise QB for 10-15+ years instead of playing QB musical chairs for a decade at a time.

Not to mention that you have 4 years of a quarterback making roughly $30 million less APY than the market would otherwise dictate they should. That's a monster competitive advantage.

[Doctor]

“What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?”

The upside that you have a franchise QB for 10-15+ years instead of playing QB musical chairs for a decade at a time.

Signed,
Winston
Freeman
Baker
Darnold
Wilson



This would be a long list.
Again, by this logic if we just didn't sign Baker at all we'd be in the Jordan Love 10-15 year upside camp. But adding a QB took us out of that camp.... for some reason.

[Snake]

“What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?”

The upside that you have a franchise QB for 10-15+ years instead of playing QB musical chairs for a decade at a time.

Signed,
Winston
Freeman
Baker
Darnold
Wilson



This would be a long list.
Again, by this logic if we just didn't sign Baker at all we'd be in the Jordan Love 10-15 year upside camp. But adding a QB took us out of that camp.... for some reason.

I don’t really know what we’re talking about anymore.

[MJW]

“What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?”

The upside that you have a franchise QB for 10-15+ years instead of playing QB musical chairs for a decade at a time.

Signed,
Winston
Freeman
Baker
Darnold
Wilson



This would be a long list.
Again, by this logic if we just didn't sign Baker at all we'd be in the Jordan Love 10-15 year upside camp. But adding a QB took us out of that camp.... for some reason.

"Sometimes there are bad outcomes so try to do better than mediocrity is folly" is exactly the kind of take I'd expect from the "Making moves for the future means you want to lose now" lawyer.

[Doctor]

This would be a long list.
Again, by this logic if we just didn't sign Baker at all we'd be in the Jordan Love 10-15 year upside camp. But adding a QB took us out of that camp.... for some reason.

I don’t really know what we’re talking about anymore.

Y'all trying to argue that having "2 QBs means you have none", and the difference between Trask and other comparable QBs like Love, or even freshly drafted Richardson, is that those teams have no contingency plans and are just handing the job over unchallenged, which somehow makes them a 10-15year franchise QB.

Plenty of QBs been handed jobs. That doesn't make you a 10-15 year answer. See the list.
Plenty of QBs who had to win their jobs actually have become 10 year answers.

The argument that handing the job over unchallenged is what makes a franchise QB is a dumb one.

[Selmon Rules]

“What makes just handing everything over to Richardson or Winston outright such a sexy concept?”

The upside that you have a franchise QB for 10-15+ years instead of playing QB musical chairs for a decade at a time.

The only thing that makes it sexy is the hope that comes along with it, not knowing and still being able to have hope that this time it will work out for us

[Sdbucs]

I don’t really know what we’re talking about anymore.

Y'all trying to argue that having "2 QBs means you have none", and the difference between Trask and other comparable QBs like Love, or even freshly drafted Richardson, is that those teams have no contingency plans and are just handing the job over unchallenged, which somehow makes them a 10-15year franchise QB.

Plenty of QBs been handed jobs. That doesn't make you a 10-15 year answer. See the list.
Plenty of QBs who had to win their jobs actually have become 10 year answers.

The argument that handing the job over unchallenged is what makes a franchise QB is a dumb one.

Their train of thought is that Trask didn’t win the #2 spot vs Gabbert (when we have zero clue as to the reason why OBP wanted Gabbert at #2), so he’s already been challenged and lost, therefore he’s confirmed trash.

It’s flawed reasoning because there are a couple of scenarios/reasons as to why the Bucs backed up Brady with Gabbert instead of Trask. We as fans might never know why, we can only assume.

IF the coaching staff wanted to have a vet behind Brady, for example, then their argument crumbles. At that point all they have left to pin on Trask is that he’s a 2nd round pick.

He could very well suck. Maybe he truly lost to Gabbert in a fight for #2 and will lose to Baker for the starting spot. Completely possible. But the reasoning that people are using to justify raking Trask over coals before he’s even started a game is just piss poor.

[MJW]

The most likely reality:

They both probably suck, they're both going to get snaps this season and prove that they suck, and neither of them will be Option #1 or even Option #1-B for the guy coaching this team in 2024, who will not be Todd Bowles nor any of the Arians fun bunch. Maybe, possibly, Trask will show enough to be the next guy's Mike Glennon or Josh Johnson for the next two years.

[Doctor]

Here's the thing... you're not wrong. That IS the most likely scenario.

Not because of any brilliant analysis on your part, but because that's just the reality of the NFL. "He's not the guy" is by far the most common outcome. Even when it comes to your precious saviors, from Zach Wilson to Purdy to Young to Caleb, the safest bet is "no, he's not the guy". That's the reality of the NFL, especially at the QB position. So you see, you aren't being clever here.

The entire magic of the NFL is rooted in guys beating the odds. In a 6th rounder becoming the GOAT, in a guys who tumbled down the draft winning MVP, in a plucky lot defeating the Undefeated, or a guy stocking grocery shelves taking two teams to the promised land. That's what makes this sport.

So yeah, you're not off base with your prediction at all.
But the dogma that hope is to be reserved exclusively for top picks, yeah that is dead wrong.

[Sdbucs]

The most likely reality:

They both probably suck, they're both going to get snaps this season and prove that they suck, and neither of them will be Option #1 or even Option #1-B for the guy coaching this team in 2024, who will not be Todd Bowles nor any of the Arians fun bunch. Maybe, possibly, Trask will show enough to be the next guy's Mike Glennon or Josh Johnson for the next two years.

Yeah most likely scenario. And in this scenario we land a promising young QB in the draft.

But we should truly be rooting on Trask because him succeeding is a really good scenario for us.

[Cheb]

The most likely reality:

They both probably suck, they're both going to get snaps this season and prove that they suck, and neither of them will be Option #1 or even Option #1-B for the guy coaching this team in 2024, who will not be Todd Bowles nor any of the Arians fun bunch. Maybe, possibly, Trask will show enough to be the next guy's Mike Glennon or Josh Johnson for the next two years.

While there is a strong possibility that this occurs, I offer a counterpoint; I think that Evans and Godwin are good enough to elevate mediocre and/or inconsistent quarterback play. If they get their combined 15-20 targets a game, they will produce for whomever is slinging the rock.

[Doctor]

Bingo, cheb. Its almost like some choose to ignore that.

They disregard that, while yes he threw a ton of INTs, former top pick and bust Winston also led a top 3 offense with these guys.

You don't NEED to be Mahomes to score points in this league. The end zone isn't exclusively reserved for saviors and FQBs. Career back up Nick Foles still scored 3 TDs in the NFCCG and another 3 in the SB. But reading some posts you'd think such a thing wasn't allowed.

[Naismith]

What is the hope with the current roster? To sneak into the playoffs in a weak NFC South and get trounced again? Does anyone legitimately believe either QB can become a great QB?

[Cheb]

What is the hope with the current roster? To sneak into the playoffs in a weak NFC South and get trounced again? Does anyone legitimately believe either QB can become a great QB?

Imo, I think the hope is build a foundation so that we can realistically compete next season. We have $70 million in dead cap this season, tops in the NFL. When that drops off the books next year, we can again be aggressive in keeping our guys and signing top tier free agents.

This season, I'd wager the plan is to play great defense and run a balanced offense. Rely on our top two corners to shut down the mediocre passing threats in the division, and make their jobs easier with all our passrushing rookies. Keep the ball on the ground offensively to control time of possession and keep the defense fresh while weaving in efficient passing concepts with a few shots woven in to keep the safeties back.

That's my guess anyways. And who knows, maybe one of the QBs shows that he has moxxy.

[Miller4Prez64]

The most likely reality:

They both probably suck, they're both going to get snaps this season and prove that they suck, and neither of them will be Option #1 or even Option #1-B for the guy coaching this team in 2024, who will not be Todd Bowles nor any of the Arians fun bunch. Maybe, possibly, Trask will show enough to be the next guy's Mike Glennon or Josh Johnson for the next two years.

While there is a strong possibility that this occurs, I offer a counterpoint; I think that Evans and Godwin are good enough to elevate mediocre and/or inconsistent quarterback play. If they get their combined 15-20 targets a game, they will produce for whomever is slinging the rock.

We had both those guys produce 1K yards last year with the GOAT at QB and the offense was still cheeks. The problems that plagued the offense were not adressed properly either in favor of the DC, I mean HC, wanting to load up his side of the ball. Mike Evans and Chris Godwin aren’t just going to put the team on their back, that’s asking way too much of them and ignoring the actual problems we have.

[Grahamburn]

A more modern running game in and of itself will help the offense. Not many teams just turn around and hand it off anymore they way we have for the last 3 years.

The 2023 offense will probably turn it over more, but I would bet they score more points as well.

[Phantom]

Appearing on “Up and Adams,” Moon said Titans’ Owner Amy Adams Strunk confirmed the team would bring back the Oilers uniforms in 2023.

“I talked with the owner about it,” Moon said. “She was waiting for the helmets to be approved. Now that you can wear the helmet, we’re wearing the whole uniform this year — and it could be against the Houston Texans.”

[Phantom]

I believe we’re wearing throwback uniform against two nfc central teams this year

Err I mean NFC north

[MJW]

The most likely reality:

They both probably suck, they're both going to get snaps this season and prove that they suck, and neither of them will be Option #1 or even Option #1-B for the guy coaching this team in 2024, who will not be Todd Bowles nor any of the Arians fun bunch. Maybe, possibly, Trask will show enough to be the next guy's Mike Glennon or Josh Johnson for the next two years.

While there is a strong possibility that this occurs, I offer a counterpoint; I think that Evans and Godwin are good enough to elevate mediocre and/or inconsistent quarterback play. If they get their combined 15-20 targets a game, they will produce for whomever is slinging the rock.

I get the thinking. I do. It goes something like this:

"We were statistically a pretty good defense, and we improved in the draft."
"And on offense, Leftwich was terrible. With a new OC and a semi-competent quarterback, we can probably score enough to steal some wins if the defense plays well."
"Yeah, the division isn't great. Maybe we can scrape together 9 or 10 wins and win the division again!"
"And then something something Superbowl!"
(Pause for laughter)
(Still pausing)
(Still Laughing)
"Yeah, but seriously, they probably won't fire us if we can do that."

That's the thinking.

It's great for keeping bad coaches employed.
It's less great if you're a fan of the team.

[Snake]

if the football deity himself came down and said “you get to decide, 8-9 and win division again, or 2-15?”

2-15 all day.

[MJW]

if the football deity himself came down and said “you get to decide, 8-9 and win division again, or 2-15?”

2-15 all day.

Yeah, that's what the fans who'll spend the rest of their lives watching the team should want. But Toilet Bowles and Co. are thinking about their next paycheck. They have zero motivation to think about 2024, much less building anything.

[Bootz]

Waiting on @Snake to tell us how the 02 Bengals or 03 Chargers or 04 49ers or 06 Raiders or 08 Lions(0-16) or 09 Rams or 10 Panthers or 11 Colts or 14 Bucs or 17 Browns or 18 Cardinals or 19 Bengals or 20 Jags have benefited from having the worst record and earning the #1 overall pick to take a QB has helped them all.

[Deja Entendu]

Licht mentioned bringing in a vet that won’t take over the competition, but that’s been there done that.

Nick Foles is getting released. If that’s what they want, that’s the move.

Then bring Tom in to finally shake his hand.

[MJW]

Waiting on @Snake to tell us how the 02 Bengals or 03 Chargers or 04 49ers or 06 Raiders or 08 Lions(0-16) or 09 Rams or 10 Panthers or 11 Colts or 14 Bucs or 17 Browns or 18 Cardinals or 19 Bengals or 20 Jags have benefited from having the worst record and earning the #1 overall pick to take a QB has helped them all.

Are you being sarcastic?

[MJW]

Licht mentioned bringing in a vet that won’t take over the competition, but that’s been there done that.

Nick Foles is getting released. If that’s what they want, that’s the move.

Then bring Tom in to finally shake his hand.

Bringing in Foles would fit perfectly with the current mindset. He's bad, but he's had enough moments of not being bad in the past that the really imaginative fans will convince themselves he's actually good.

[Bootz]

Waiting on @Snake to tell us how the 02 Bengals or 03 Chargers or 04 49ers or 06 Raiders or 08 Lions(0-16) or 09 Rams or 10 Panthers or 11 Colts or 14 Bucs or 17 Browns or 18 Cardinals or 19 Bengals or 20 Jags have benefited from having the worst record and earning the #1 overall pick to take a QB has helped them all.

Are you being sarcastic?

For the last 15+ years on these boards your flippant responses always ring loudly that you don't have a real rebuttal but are simply looking for a debate

[MJW]

Are you being sarcastic?

For the last 15+ years on these boards your flippant responses always ring loudly that you don't have a real rebuttal but are simply looking for a debate

Holy shit, try diagramming that wordburger of a sentence.

No, really, is that sarcasm? Because if it's not, it's utterly ridiculous.

[Grahamburn]

While there is a strong possibility that this occurs, I offer a counterpoint; I think that Evans and Godwin are good enough to elevate mediocre and/or inconsistent quarterback play. If they get their combined 15-20 targets a game, they will produce for whomever is slinging the rock.

I get the thinking. I do. It goes something like this:

"We were statistically a pretty good defense, and we improved in the draft."
"And on offense, Leftwich was terrible. With a new OC and a semi-competent quarterback, we can probably score enough to steal some wins if the defense plays well."
"Yeah, the division isn't great. Maybe we can scrape together 9 or 10 wins and win the division again!"
"And then something something Superbowl!"
(Pause for laughter)
(Still pausing)
(Still Laughing)
"Yeah, but seriously, they probably won't fire us if we can do that."

That's the thinking.

It's great for keeping bad coaches employed.
It's less great if you're a fan of the team.

Does Tom Brady literally get all the credit for the last 3 seasons?

[Snake]

I get the thinking. I do. It goes something like this:

"We were statistically a pretty good defense, and we improved in the draft."
"And on offense, Leftwich was terrible. With a new OC and a semi-competent quarterback, we can probably score enough to steal some wins if the defense plays well."
"Yeah, the division isn't great. Maybe we can scrape together 9 or 10 wins and win the division again!"
"And then something something Superbowl!"
(Pause for laughter)
(Still pausing)
(Still Laughing)
"Yeah, but seriously, they probably won't fire us if we can do that."

That's the thinking.

It's great for keeping bad coaches employed.
It's less great if you're a fan of the team.

Does Tom Brady literally get all the credit for the last 3 seasons?

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