The QB thread

[Doctor]

As I said in the draft thread, QB is the biggest scam of all the positions. So much of what leads to NFL success is not in a soundbite or even on the tape. The dream classes are trash, the mid guys are studs, the fallers like Lamar and Rodgers are the MVPs.

I still believe fit is the most important thing, it can make a good QB great and a great one meh.
I also like to believe we have some of the best QB eyes in the league. If this FO thinks it's a fit, I'm all for it. You can never hedge too much towards the most important position.

With that said, let's say the pick is QB. Who would you want? Who would you hate? It could very well happen so we may as well talk about it.

[Snake]

Want: Young
Hate: most everyone else
Intrigued by: Hooker. Need to explore him more.
Reasons: my mock thread.

I watched Stroud, Levis, and Richardson in person. I didn’t see NFL throwing traits in the latter two. Levis had huge balls and moxie putting himself in the way of danger. Meaning him running around. Stroud had no fear throwing. Richardson looked like Kyle Pitts playing QB. Super athletic, but not natural.

NFL teams have way more information though. So I don’t fault fans for being wrong about QBs.

Interviews with family, college team staff, the players. Detailed cognitive scores from tests.

[MJW]

Kinda got into this elsewhere, but:

Want: Young. I don't think he's "generational," whatever that means, but I think his style of play is exactly built for where the league is heading. The quarterback is becoming less like a JUGS machine and more like an NBA Point Guard. That's how he plays the position. He creates plays, often before anyone else knows what's about to happen. He's a joy to watch play.

Hate: Richardson and Hooker. They both scream bust to me. Richardson played in a one or no read offense. His footwork is a joke. His accuracy is UDFA caliber. And he gets slower and less dynamic in pads. Hooker made a few more tight window NFL style completions in his college career than my dog did at obedience school. His signature throw is having one of his stud receivers outrun coverage by 10 yards and then underthrowing him by 8 yards.

Intrigued By: Levis. The arm talent is generational (whatever that means.) Like a hot guy with a smack problem, I...I think I can fix him.

[Cheb]

If I stick with the premise of the poll, which posits that if the top two quarterbacks are gone (presumably Stroud and Young in some order), and Licht and friends told me that they absolutely will draft the Quarterback of the Future for the Buccaneers in the first round as the third quarterback taken come hell or high water, which of the three would I prefer between Levis, Hooker, or Richardson?

Overall I reject the premise. I think drafting a quarterback in the first round for this team at this juncture is all kinds of foolish, and I hope I'd have the stones to tell the Bucs' braintrust the same if they asked me my honest opinion.

That said, being a stick in the mud is no fun. I'd bring up the following in no particular order:

- Richardson is a horrendously inaccurate quarterback who cannot reliably hit a wide open swing route. Watch the FSU game from this last year and get ready to cringe yourself into the next dimension. But yes, he is a phenomenal athlete who can hit the ceiling in your indoors practice facility with arm punts so that's fun, and if you train him up to be even semi-competent you should have a dynamic weapon at the position.
- I don't trust Henson Hooker to repeat his collegiate success because his professional offense will have a different playcaller and a wildly different scheme, and he had superior receiving talent that bailed him out on the reg. He's also coming off of injury which makes me uneasy, but he's experienced and throws a pretty ball so that's cool.
- Will Levis has dead feet in the pocket and he struggles to come off his first read. One could also say he has Staffordian arm strength and if you squint a little you can see Justin Herbert.
- All three sucked against their only common 2022 opponent, Georgia.

Gun to my head, gut instinct between the three is Levis, but I could easily be wrong.

[Grahamburn]

One of the "highlights" that NFL Network keeps showing of Levis is a flat footed wristy underthrow against Georgia. I don't want anything to do with him.

Bucs sure do seem interested in Hendon.

[MJW]

One of the "highlights" that NFL Network keeps showing of Levis is a flat footed wristy underthrow against Georgia. I don't want anything to do with him.

Bucs sure do seem interested in Hendon.

If you have the chance to draft a 25 year old system QB who didn't make any reads or tight window throws in college, you gotta do it.

[Grahamburn]

One of the "highlights" that NFL Network keeps showing of Levis is a flat footed wristy underthrow against Georgia. I don't want anything to do with him.

Bucs sure do seem interested in Hendon.

If you have the chance to draft a 25 year old system QB who didn't make any reads or tight window throws in college, you gotta do it.

I hope not. Watched some of him today though. Just the system?

[mdb1958]

One of the "highlights" that NFL Network keeps showing of Levis is a flat footed wristy underthrow against Georgia. I don't want anything to do with him.

Bucs sure do seem interested in Hendon.

If you have the chance to draft a 25 year old system QB who didn't make any reads or tight window throws in college, you gotta do it.

If the NFL adds fleet footed QB's you add a fleet footed QB to run the opposition in practice.

[MJW]

If you have the chance to draft a 25 year old system QB who didn't make any reads or tight window throws in college, you gotta do it.

I hope not. Watched some of him today though. Just the system?

Not JUST. He obviously has some physical attributes. But I just see very little that I'd feel confident translates to the league. Most of his highlights belong to the OC and/or those great receivers. I see very few progressions. Very little calm in the pocket. Very few NFL window type throws. On paper, between his size, speed, and production, he seems like a worthwhile prospect. But the more I actually watch him, the less I like him.

[Doctor]

It's the offseason. Still highly likely that all these are just smokescreens in hope of getting someone to trade up.

[Grahamburn]

It's the offseason. Still highly likely that all these are just smokescreens in hope of getting someone to trade up.

Never really understood that concept. Are we really to believe these coaches/GMs waste precious time doing meetings and interviews with players they have no interest in drafting just on the hope some other team is paying attention to what they’re doing so a player they didn’t take time to interview falls to them? Wut?

[mdb1958]

It's the offseason. Still highly likely that all these are just smokescreens in hope of getting someone to trade up.

Never really understood that concept. Are we really to believe these coaches/GMs waste precious time doing meetings and interviews with players they have no interest in drafting just on the hope some other team is paying attention to what they’re doing so a player they didn’t take time to interview falls to them? Wut?

Are you able to identify any fourth rounders you'd like to have? I hope our draft team is doing so.

[Kona]

If we draft a QB in the first I will be highly disappointed. We have no LT on the current roster and need edge depth badly.

That being said, if I had to pick one it’d be Richardson just due to the insanely high ceiling compared to Hooker/Levis. That and he’s 3+ years younger than the other two.

[Grahamburn]

Kevin Cole
@KevinCole___
Two stats that are fairly stable from CFB to NFL and give an idea of how QBs execute under stress are pressured scrambles and sacks.
Hendon Hooker didn't throw a pass on > 50% of his pressured dropbacks, similar to Fields and Mariota, both have had elevated sack rates in the NFL.

[Grahamburn]

You‘ll definitely notice with the majority of HH’s highlights there isn’t a defender even sniffing his area. That’s a damning stat that he does not handle pressure well.

[mdb1958]

If we draft a QB in the first I will be highly disappointed. We have no LT on the current roster and need edge depth badly.

That being said, if I had to pick one it’d be Richardson just due to the insanely high ceiling compared to Hooker/Levis. That and he’s 3+ years younger than the other two.

We have 3 LT's on the current roster.

[acmillis]

You‘ll definitely notice with the majority of HH’s highlights there isn’t a defender even sniffing his area. That’s a damning stat that he does not handle pressure well.

OOCA

[MRM]

Watching a lot of SEC football, I am not impressed with Levis. I think too many people fall in love with the idea he can throw the ball 100 MPH. I don't see a guy that makes a lot of winning plays.

[Doctor]

It's the offseason. Still highly likely that all these are just smokescreens in hope of getting someone to trade up.

Never really understood that concept. Are we really to believe these coaches/GMs waste precious time doing meetings and interviews with players they have no interest in drafting just on the hope some other team is paying attention to what they’re doing so a player they didn’t take time to interview falls to them? Wut?

Don't think black and white. More in degrees. Meetings are there to push players down draft boards, or off completely, just as much as to move them up.

If you're a QB needy team you do your research, up close, of anyone who could possibly be your franchise guy. See if you fall in love. See if a guy falls. Etc.

Also it doesn't mean they like the guy at the same level. Maybe we think Hooker is a great Day 2 guy. Your interviews aren't just for your first pick.

[Naismith]

I think Richardson is the pretty easy top QB choice in this draft but I wouldn't want any of the top four guys due to how much future assets would have to be traded to get them. I'd be fine with Hooker, even though I don't think he's likely to be successful, but using a first rounder on a QB dart is never going to be that bad as long as the team is willing to move on quickly if necessary.

[MJW]

Never really understood that concept. Are we really to believe these coaches/GMs waste precious time doing meetings and interviews with players they have no interest in drafting just on the hope some other team is paying attention to what they’re doing so a player they didn’t take time to interview falls to them? Wut?

Don't think black and white. More in degrees. Meetings are there to push players down draft boards, or off completely, just as much as to move them up.

If you're a QB needy team you do your research, up close, of anyone who could possibly be your franchise guy. See if you fall in love. See if a guy falls. Etc.

Also it doesn't mean they like the guy at the same level. Maybe we think Hooker is a great Day 2 guy. Your interviews aren't just for your first pick.

Where you get into trouble is talking yourself into somebody, you know? And it's just so easy to do. Hitting on a young QB is a cheat code, and if you're a middling team, or even worse, a middling team with a coach on the hot seat, it's so tempting. But for every, "Didn't see it coming" bust like RGIII or Sam Bradford, there are a dozen like Christian Ponder or Brandon Weeden where you're like...you couldn't have possibly believed this guy was the answer, right?

I love the idea of a front office, at the BEGINNING of the process, seeing if they love a guy. If they do, it's fine to do the homework and see potential flaws that might not be apparent otherwise. But if you DON'T love a guy, just decide then and there that you're not using your first on one. Think about how many teams would have avoided draft busts that way, and how few would have missed out on anyone.

[MJW]

You can absolutely hear teams talking themselves into Anthony Richardson and Will Levis right now, btw.

On the other hand, I guarantee you whoever drafts Stroud/Young absolutely loved that guy six months ago.

[MJW]

(Last Note: I am talking myself into Will Levis ATM and I'm not afraid to admit it.)

[acmillis]

I'm a Kentucky fan, so Levis is fine by me although I sincerely believe Trask should get one season as the starter just to see what we've got in him.

[Grahamburn]

If they’re going to draft a guy with the 19th pick why sign baker?

[Doctor]

Perhaps because you haven't met any of the prospects yet, don't know which ones you'll be a true believer of and even if you are ready to pin the franchise on any of them maybe those guys don't even fall to you and you have no way of knowing that in March?

[Grahamburn]

Perhaps because you haven't met any of the prospects yet, don't know which ones you'll be a true believer of and even if you are ready to pin the franchise on any of them maybe those guys don't even fall to you and you have no way of knowing that in March?

I’ve defended Licht a lot. Drafting Trask, signing, Baker, and then drafting another QB early in THIS draft without having a premium pick might be enough for me to get off his bandwagon.

I’d give him the benefit of the doubt to do it in the top 5 next year, but not this year. If Hooker or Levi’s are there in round 2 somehow? Fine. But not at 19.

[MJW]

If they’re going to draft a guy with the 19th pick why sign baker?

The most obvious answer to me is: they have zero faith in Trask and don't even expect him to be on the roster when the dust settles. So the new dynamic becomes Baker as the nominal starter/seat warmer, Rookie as the new QBOTF and probably competing for the backup job with some "no guaranteed money" late signing like (to throw out a name) Joe Flacco.

[Phantom]

I mean I think Licht need to wait til next year to draft someone like Caleb Williams. Next year 2024 QB draft class is loaded

If Levi’s is the next Josh Allen.. draft him then

[MJW]

I mean I think Licht need to wait til next year to draft someone like Caleb Williams. Next year 2024 QB draft class is loaded

If Levi’s is the next Josh Allen.. draft him then

I don't want to see a QB drafted this year unless a) it's Day Three or b) there's a guy OBP is Hinckley/Jodie Foster levels obsessed with. This isn't the time.

[Cheb]

I mean I think Licht need to wait til next year to draft someone like Caleb Williams. Next year 2024 QB draft class is loaded

If Levi’s is the next Josh Allen.. draft him then

I don't want to see a QB drafted this year unless a) it's Day Three or b) there's a guy OBP is Hinckley/Jodie Foster levels obsessed with. This isn't the time.

Then you're gonna hate this little nugget from the founder and CEO of The Draft Network:

[Snake]

White Freeman gonna crush

[Doctor]

Trask was a great fit and prospect for the Arians offense. We're no longer running that.
You need to adapt to the changing landscape. He'll have every chance to show his new value in this new regime. But it's stupid to hold the future hostage to the past just to "justify a pick".

The goal should be to find the right QB for this regime, not save face or appease value and hindsight draft groupies.

[_MB_]

I don't want to see a QB drafted this year unless a) it's Day Three or b) there's a guy OBP is Hinckley/Jodie Foster levels obsessed with. This isn't the time.

Then you're gonna hate this little nugget from the founder and CEO of The Draft Network:

He sure is a sexy bitch, ain't he?

[_MB_]

What I saw of Levis... which wasn't much...was that he held the ball too long. That says processor.

But maybe his balls finally dropped like Richardson's seemingly did and we have a stud on our hands.

I think I like him better than Trask on tape.