Bucs players of PFF's Team of the Week

[kaimaru]

PFF TEAM OF THE WEEK
Offense
QB: Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
TE: Rob Gronkowski, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
RG: Alex Cappa, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Defense
LB: Lavonte David, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE WEEK: QB TOM BRADY, TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS
The 44-year-old quarterback earned a 93.0 PFF grade for a Week 1 win that ended in classic Tom Brady fashion. He got the ball back down one point with just over a minute to play, and he marched the Tampa Bay offense to the Dallas 18-yard line, where Ryan Succop nailed a 36-yard field goal with single-digits remaining on the clock.

Brady put the ball right where it needed to be all night long and finished with five big-time throws to no turnover-worthy plays. He was throwing receivers open, attacking their leverage and executing the offense with perfect timing.

OFFENSIVE LINE OF THE WEEK: TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS
Tampa’s offensive line got plenty of work throughout Brady’s 50-dropback night, and they seized the opportunity. The offensive line finished as one of four in Week 1 that didn’t allow a single sack or hit on the quarterback. The group as a whole combined for a 78.7 pass-block grade, over six grading points higher than any other offensive line. Brady got the ball out swiftly, but the group still held strong on the longer-developing plays.

PFF week 1 awards

[King Bootz]

PFF?!

[kaimaru]

Wow, even when it's good news?

[King Bootz]

Wow, even when it's good news?

Credibility can’t be based off of your feelings towards the results.

[Roach On My Pizza]

The nitwits that populate the sports talk shows used to routinely incorporate PFF grades to bolster one narrative or another. It's devolved into segments arguing about particular player grades themselves. In either case, the entire sports talk industry and the grading/evaluating sites and channels have become remarkably embarrassing.

[MJW]

I don't want to relitigate PFF and it's shortcomings.

It's nice that Bucs players played well enough to be recognized for playing well, even through flawed methodology.

[Rocker]

I don't want to relitigate PFF and it's shortcomings.

It's nice that Bucs players played well enough to be recognized for playing well, even through flawed methodology.

This. Who gives a shit if it's a ranking from ProFootballFocus or a ranking from Itsabucslife.com?


Three years ago we'd all be creaming our shorts if a Buccaneer got some national attention.

[kaimaru]

Damn! Okay noted. No PFF talk........ever. Sorry. I'll just be over here.

[Max]

I love when people hate on PFF. Like people watching a game on broadcast are going to come to a more viable evaluation of a players' performance than a bunch of analysts using a system that was literally created by scientists. That's some next level narcissism. 

Will it ever be possible to exactly quantify performances in a game with as many variables as football? Obviously not. But you can be sure PFF is better at it than you are.

[acmillis]

High Chris Collinsworth, welcome to the board.

/insertslidingcollinsworth.gif

[MJW]

I love when people hate on PFF. Like people watching a game on broadcast are going to come to a more viable evaluation of a players' performance than a bunch of analysts using a system that was literally created by scientists. That's some next level narcissism. 

Will it ever be possible to exactly quantify performances in a game with as many variables as football? Obviously not. But you can be sure PFF is better at it than you are.

I get your point.

And I agree that in broad strokes, PFF can provide more accurate takes on players we might not watch ourselves.

But the idea that Left Guard A has earned a 67.1 rating, while Left Guard B has earned a 67.2 (and is thus a better player), is psuedoscience.

And that's before we talk about the fundamental flaw with PFF grades: they have no idea what the blocking assignments are for linemen. They have no idea what the coverage assignments are for defensive backs. They have no idea if the defensive end made a great play by stuffing the back in the backfield, or if he got lucky after blowing his contain assignment. So on and so forth.

Again, broad strokes? Yeah, I can probably assume a guy with a 91 rating is better than a guy with a 51 rating. But I could also probably figure that out by watching the sport.

[uscbucsfan]

Again, broad strokes? Yeah, I can probably assume a guy with a 91 rating is better than a guy with a 51 rating. But I could also probably figure that out by watching the sport.

For the most part, but there are severe misses like Devin White, I believe rated as the worst LB in all the NFL last year, or Clowney, who went 2 or 3 years rated as the best EDGE in the NFL.

There's no logical argument that either of those are true and anytime there is just a massive swing and miss like that, people will question them.

[Roach On My Pizza]

I love when people hate on PFF. Like people watching a game on broadcast are going to come to a more viable evaluation of a players' performance than a bunch of analysts using a system that was literally created by scientists. That's some next level narcissism. 

Will it ever be possible to exactly quantify performances in a game with as many variables as football? Obviously not. But you can be sure PFF is better at it than you are.

Actually, no. PFF is not better at it than either of us.

[Defense5599]

I have to admit, I like the way Cappa has developed. He's a tough, scrappy, blue collar type guard who has improved in leaps and bounds. The trouble is, this is the last year of his rookie contract and he will probably want a big payday.

[Roach On My Pizza]

I have to admit, I like the way Cappa has developed. He's a tough, scrappy, blue collar type guard who has improved in leaps and bounds. The trouble is, this is the last year of his rookie contract and he will probably want a big payday.

The front office will be in a position where a good % of the roster will have to turn over next off-season.

[Defense5599]

I have to admit, I like the way Cappa has developed. He's a tough, scrappy, blue collar type guard who has improved in leaps and bounds. The trouble is, this is the last year of his rookie contract and he will probably want a big payday.

The front office will be in a position where a good % of the roster will have to turn over next off-season.

Not necessarily. That's what people were saying this past offseason and everyone came back. This team has guys that value winning over a bit of extra green. But eventually, what you just described will happen. There's no way to sustain it long term in today's NFL.

The only way is to eliminate the salary cap.

[King Bootz]

The front office will be in a position where a good % of the roster will have to turn over next off-season.

Not necessarily. That's what people were saying this past offseason and everyone came back. This team has guys that value winning over a bit of extra green. But eventually, what you just described will happen. There's no way to sustain it long term in today's NFL.

The only way is to eliminate the salary cap.

There’s a major fundamental difference from this year’sfree agent group to next years. This year, the majority of our free agents were older vets. Guys who have made significant money, could probably get a bit more on the market but chose to stay and win another ring potentially. Gronk, AB, LVD, Shaq, Suh. The only FA we had looking for a 2nd contract was Godwin, who’s only 25. He got an expensive franchise tag.

Next offseason won’t be as forgiving. Along with Cappa, Godwin is a FA again, RoJo, CD3, Whitehead, OJ will all be looking for their 2nd contracts. Then we still have Gronk, JPP, AB, Suh, Jensen, Gholston, Fournette.

[Roach On My Pizza]

The front office will be in a position where a good % of the roster will have to turn over next off-season.

Not necessarily. That's what people were saying this past offseason and everyone came back. This team has guys that value winning over a bit of extra green. But eventually, what you just described will happen. There's no way to sustain it long term in today's NFL.

The only way is to eliminate the salary cap.

So, yes necessarily? Irrespective of what people say in the off-season, there's a significant chasm between signing a handful of free agents and turning over a roster. As it pertains to Cappa, I doubt his market value will rise beyond what the Buc's cap situation will allow. If it does, bye

[Snake]

LVD is always a PFF darling. Love to see it.

[Doctor]

Who cares about credibility, it's cool to be recognized. You may not care what SAS or Skip have to say, but hearing them gush over the bucs in a segment feels good. Enjoy the time at the top, it doesn't come often.

Our Offensive Lichtmen deserve a lot of credit.

[Backside]

The best chance we have to keep most (I think all is impossible this time.) of our free agents is to win the Super Bowl again. When you’ve won two in a row with the exact same team who is going to turn down going for a trifecta with the GOAT? The cap will go way up each year for the next few. We could offer shorter deals and tell them to come complete the dynasty then you can cash in when the salary cap is even higher.

[Cheb]

Licht pulled a hell of a magic trick keeping the roster together after our Superbowl, and I don't think we can repeat that again.

As of right now, Spotrac has it at $32 million in cap space for next year. And the following guys are free agents:

- Ryan Jensen
- JPP
- William Gholston
- Chris Godwin
- OJ Howard
- Kong Suh
- Gronk
- Rojo
- Carlton Davis
- Alex Cappa
- Leonard Fournette
- Antonio Brown
- Aaron Stinnie
- Gio Bernard

No way in hell we keep the band together next off-season as we did last. Like zero percent chance.

[Doctor]

Don't forget Jordan Whitehead.

Licht won't be able to bring everyone back but we'll be in a much better position to transition than before. Godwin is the biggest one, and imo, I think just too expensive. I'd much rather try to keep Davis, AB, one of our RGs, and JPP. Gholston if we can get greedy. But we have Tryon if we can't keep JPP, we're grooming a center, we have tons of WR talent. At the end of the day we'll be able to keep a SB level roster.

[King Bootz]

Keep in mind also we have 2 cornerstones in Vita Vea and Devin White who are eligible for contract extensions. White might play on his 4th year salary but I doubt Vea will play on a non-guaranteed option. For reference, Mike Evans signed his big extension after his 4th season. He's the 1st and thus far only Jason Licht 1st round pick to sign a 2nd contract. This FO will have a ton of work to do.

[Terry Tate]

The fact that list doesn't include Vita Vea makes it irrelevant.

[Snake]

Licht pulled a hell of a magic trick keeping the roster together after our Superbowl, and I don't think we can repeat that again.

As of right now, Spotrac has it at $32 million in cap space for next year. And the following guys are free agents:

- Ryan Jensen
- JPP
- William Gholston
- Chris Godwin
- OJ Howard
- Kong Suh
- Gronk
- Rojo
- Carlton Davis
- Alex Cappa
- Leonard Fournette
- Antonio Brown
- Aaron Stinnie
- Gio Bernard

No way in hell we keep the band together next off-season as we did last. Like zero percent chance.

Good points. We wouldn’t want all those guys back anyway. Even if we pull off the repeat miracle.

It’s a nice opportunity to trim some fat, get younger, and optimize the roster in some areas. We could be looking at an entirely new RB room. Vaughn is the only guy under contract and he COULD be entering year 3 with a handful of carries in his career total.

Presumably, we’d be asking JTS to take over for JPP. Not a small ask. That’s some savings.

I’ll spare you the rest. Only seven draft picks and a lot of positions to fill. Licht would need to get creative in FA and possibly make other cuts to free up cash. Kinda far out for identifying cut candidates…but I’ll do it.

Alright, there aren’t many.

Marpet frees up $8m. Dead = $3m (really want to cut this guy?)

Brate, frees up $5.2m. Dead = $2m.

Succop, frees up $2.5m. Dead = $1.5m (need a kicker)

SMB, frees up $1.5m. Dead = $.85m

Pinion, frees up $2.9m (need a punter).

Not a lot of moves available….

Everyone else is prohibitively expensive and not worth detailing. The end of roster guys will be replaced by like costs, anyway.

Licht has always been dead cap averse. Made sense to be. It just may be unavoidable now given the cap constraints he will soon be subject to.

[Rocker]

- Ryan Jensen
- JPP
- William Gholston
- Chris Godwin
- OJ Howard
- Kong Suh
- Gronk
- Rojo
- Carlton Davis
- Alex Cappa
- Leonard Fournette
- Antonio Brown
- Aaron Stinnie
- Gio Bernard

Bolded are my priorities. Gholston is an underappreciated key part of the D, but is certainly replaceable.

[MJW]

Licht pulled a hell of a magic trick keeping the roster together after our Superbowl, and I don't think we can repeat that again.

As of right now, Spotrac has it at $32 million in cap space for next year. And the following guys are free agents:

- Ryan Jensen
- JPP
- William Gholston
- Chris Godwin
- OJ Howard
- Kong Suh
- Gronk
- Rojo
- Carlton Davis
- Alex Cappa
- Leonard Fournette
- Antonio Brown
- Aaron Stinnie
- Gio Bernard

No way in hell we keep the band together next off-season as we did last. Like zero percent chance.

This.

To keep this group together last offseason, we leveraged and manipulated every contract we possibly could. Remember all those "Licht is a maestro at preventing dead cap space" stories? He called in EVERY marker he could in that regard last year.

Next year, there will be blood.

Reality, as I see it?

Davis is the top priority and will be treated as such, though that could mean the tag.
JPP is almost certainly gone. His replacement is on the roster.
Howard is almost certainly gone, unless Gronk re-retires and Howard is willing to take a discount to 1-2 with Brate again. I don't see it but maybe.
Suh is almost certainly gone. He's been in decline for awhile.
We might keep either Rojo or Fournette. No way we keep both. Bernard could go either way depending on how cheap a deal he'll take.
I assume either Stinnie or Cappa will be back. It could simply come down to who will cost less.
AB OR Godwin will be back. Not both, unless AB is willing to take an insane discount to stay with Brady. Even that might not do it.
We drafted Hainsey to take over for Jensen. I think unless Hainsey looks like a huge disappoint, that's what'll happen.
Gholston could be back. He won't see a huge market at his age and with his modest numbers.

[MJW]

It's important to note that we can't pay big contracts in a vacuum this offseason. After next season, we're going to have to deal with free agency for basically our entire defensive backfield except for Davis (assuming he's re-signed to a long term deal) and Winfield. SMB, Dean, Cockrell, and Edwards will all be UFAs. And we forgot Whithead, who will also be an UFA after this season. Oh, Miller's deal will be up as well.

[acmillis]

Keep in mind also we have 2 cornerstones in Vita Vea and Devin White who are eligible for contract extensions. White might play on his 4th year salary but I doubt Vea will play on a non-guaranteed option. For reference, Mike Evans signed his big extension after his 4th season. He's the 1st and thus far only Jason Licht 1st round pick to sign a 2nd contract. This FO will have a ton of work to do.

Pretty sure the new CBA stipulated that any first rounders fifth year option is unconditionally guaranteed once it is picked up - RE Vea

[King Bootz]

Keep in mind also we have 2 cornerstones in Vita Vea and Devin White who are eligible for contract extensions. White might play on his 4th year salary but I doubt Vea will play on a non-guaranteed option. For reference, Mike Evans signed his big extension after his 4th season. He's the 1st and thus far only Jason Licht 1st round pick to sign a 2nd contract. This FO will have a ton of work to do.

Pretty sure the new CBA stipulated that any first rounders fifth year option is unconditionally guaranteed once it is picked up - RE Vea

Good observation.

[Primeminister]

PFF?!

I’m keeping this gif

[Max]

I love when people hate on PFF. Like people watching a game on broadcast are going to come to a more viable evaluation of a players' performance than a bunch of analysts using a system that was literally created by scientists. That's some next level narcissism. 

Will it ever be possible to exactly quantify performances in a game with as many variables as football? Obviously not. But you can be sure PFF is better at it than you are.

But the idea that Left Guard A has earned a 67.1 rating, while Left Guard B has earned a 67.2 (and is thus a better player), is psuedoscience.

That's not what they're saying, though.

PFF is grading performances, not players. They're not saying LG A is a 67.1 player. They're saying LG A's performance graded a 67.1 in their system. It's up to you what to do with that information and to put it into context.

If you're arguing player A is better than player B because be graded a 67.2 compared to a 67.1, that's you misusing the information that is presented to you, not an argument against a metric that is trying to quantify athletic performance. 

You're right in that it's impossible for them (or anybody) to be completely exact. There are too many variables and too many things they don't know. That doesn't mean any type of evaluation can't be any good. 

For example, their pass rushing grades are more predictive of future sack production than actual sacks. Their QB grades are also head and shoulders above passer-rating, QBR and any other stat out there.

There is a reason why even teams are working with them.

[Snake]

People need to accept that PFF grades will be posted on occasion. It’s just another data point. Their overall validity has been argued ad nauseum.

[MJW]

You're right in that it's impossible for them (or anybody) to be completely exact. There are too many variables and too many things they don't know. That doesn't mean any type of evaluation can't be any good. 

A data point is a good thing.

But...are these really data points? Now that I think on it, I'm not sure.

I would argue that without any transparency in how that data point is arrived at, it's just an opinion expressed in numerical form.

I'd have much more use for PFF if they took us inside the room and let us watch, step by step, as they arrived at these grades. To my knowledge, they do not offer this service.