2023 -2024 tankathon

[GreatTimes]

Bucs could move up one slot today with a quality LOSS.

Surely the Bucs can get into the top 5!

[Buc2]

Bucs could move up one slot today with a quality LOSS.

In the 4th quarter, it looks like they can't even do that right.

[Doctor]

Is this where the losers sob?

[Snake]

Nothing like a meaningless win in a lost season.

[13F11B]

Nothing like a meaningless win in a lost season.

I still don't think getting the #1 pick helps. The Buccaneers were not made better by wasting their pick on Jameis Winston.

[Xandtar]

Hey now, we didn't draft just another quarterback with the #1 pick. We drafted "The Jameis Winston Experience!"

[Snake]

Nothing like a meaningless win in a lost season.

I still don't think getting the #1 pick helps. The Buccaneers were not made better by wasting their pick on Jameis Winston.

Choose the right player.

[13F11B]

I still don't think getting the #1 pick helps. The Buccaneers were not made better by wasting their pick on Jameis Winston.

Choose the right player.

Hence why bad teams are not helped by getting the 1st pick. They make bad picks and fail to develop players.

[Snake]

Choose the right player.

Hence why bad teams are not helped by getting the 1st pick. They make bad picks and fail to develop players.

The Browns are helped by M. Garrett.

[13F11B]

Hence why bad teams are not helped by getting the 1st pick. They make bad picks and fail to develop players.

The Browns are helped by M. Garrett.

Just like they were helped by Baker Mayfield, heh?

[Snake]

The Browns are helped by M. Garrett.

Just like they were helped by Baker Mayfield, heh?

Again, choose the right player.

Do not operate from a place of fear, scarcity, or lack. This is where GMs get themselves in trouble.

They think they’re insulated from their decisions by going with “consensus.”

[Central_Buc]

We have cap space going into next year so we'll see what happens. But it looks like even Drake May is out of the picture. Don't know what to make of it as far as QB, maybe Penix and hope he's it.

[Grahamburn]

We have cap space going into next year so we'll see what happens. But it looks like even Drake May is out of the picture. Don't know what to make of it as far as QB, maybe Penix and hope he's it.

And that’s fine.

Have you looked at the records for the first round QBs drafted in the last ten years or so?

I think they showed a graphic during the game. It’s brutal.

Far too many teams forcing QBs into the first round that don’t belong there.

[GreatTimes]

We have cap space going into next year so we'll see what happens. But it looks like even Drake May is out of the picture. Don't know what to make of it as far as QB, maybe Penix and hope he's it.

And that’s fine.

Have you looked at the records for the first round QBs drafted in the last ten years or so?

I think they showed a graphic during the game. It’s brutal.

Far too many teams forcing QBs into the first round that don’t belong there.

Too many teams think that drafting a QB will solve their problems. Teams would be better off building a team around a QB, and once that is done, then draft a QB.

[Doctor]

I still don't think getting the #1 pick helps. The Buccaneers were not made better by wasting their pick on Jameis Winston.

Choose the right player.

And there it is. The otherside of the tanking coin, hindsight!
The dogma isn't wrong, you just need the right lotto numbers duh!

[Snake]

Choose the wrong player? lol.

[Grahamburn]

Choose the wrong player? lol.

I’ve asked you in a few threads. If you’re so adamant about tanking for a higher draft choice why won’t you put your name on anyone specific? Who do you want us to tank for?

[Snake]

Choose the wrong player? lol.

I’ve asked you in a few threads. If you’re so adamant about tanking for a higher draft choice why won’t you put your name on anyone specific? Who do you want us to tank for?

Start cutting me those Buccaneers GM checks and I can have a list for you lickity split. Also, give me access to all of the NCAA coach’s film, direct access to all of the players’ coaches from high school through college for interviews, a team of 5 scouts I can hand choose and pay to work 70 hours a week, and medical records.

[Selmon Rules]

Hey now, we didn't draft just another quarterback with the #1 pick. We drafted "The Jameis Winston Experience!"

#exciting

[Grahamburn]

I’ve asked you in a few threads. If you’re so adamant about tanking for a higher draft choice why won’t you put your name on anyone specific? Who do you want us to tank for?

Start cutting me those Buccaneers GM checks and I can have a list for you lickity split. Also, give me access to all of the NCAA coach’s film, direct access to all of the players’ coaches from high school through college for interviews, a team of 5 scouts I can hand choose and pay to work 70 hours a week, and medical records.

In other words you don't know?

[Snake]

Start cutting me those Buccaneers GM checks and I can have a list for you lickity split. Also, give me access to all of the NCAA coach’s film, direct access to all of the players’ coaches from high school through college for interviews, a team of 5 scouts I can hand choose and pay to work 70 hours a week, and medical records.

In other words you don't know?

Sure I do. Subscribe for $9.99 a month and you can have all the access you want.

[acmillis]

In other words you don't know?

Sure I do. Subscribe for $9.99 a month and you can have all the access you want.

...family board

[Grahamburn]

In other words you don't know?

Sure I do. Subscribe for $9.99 a month and you can have all the access you want.

Recent mock had us taking Jayden Daniels at #7. Like it, love it, GOTTA HAVE IT?!

[Bootz]

Start cutting me those Buccaneers GM checks and I can have a list for you lickity split. Also, give me access to all of the NCAA coach’s film, direct access to all of the players’ coaches from high school through college for interviews, a team of 5 scouts I can hand choose and pay to work 70 hours a week, and medical records.

In other words you don't know?

It's not for anyone specifically. Can't speak for others but @Snake has already admitted winning doesn't mean as much to him as high draft picks and "elite prospects". So the answer would be whoever is concensus top 5 in any given draft I would presume.

[Grahamburn]

In other words you don't know?

It's not for anyone specifically. Can't speak for others but @Snake has already admitted winning doesn't mean as much to him as high draft picks and "elite prospects". So the answer would be whoever is concensus top 5 in any given draft I would presume.

Drafts are littered with landmines and potential pitfalls. Just curious if he had someone in mind to tank for so we could look back in a few years to test out the strategy. "Pick the right player" hindsight isn't exactly effective.

[Bootz]

It's not for anyone specifically. Can't speak for others but @Snake has already admitted winning doesn't mean as much to him as high draft picks and "elite prospects". So the answer would be whoever is concensus top 5 in any given draft I would presume.

Drafts are littered with landmines and potential pitfalls. Just curious if he had someone in mind to tank for so we could look back in a few years to test out the strategy. "Pick the right player" hindsight isn't exactly effective.

You won't get a name.

[Grahamburn]

Drafts are littered with landmines and potential pitfalls. Just curious if he had someone in mind to tank for so we could look back in a few years to test out the strategy. "Pick the right player" hindsight isn't exactly effective.

You won't get a name.

Of course not. That's my point.

[Doctor]

In other words you don't know?

It's not for anyone specifically. Can't speak for others but @Snake has already admitted winning doesn't mean as much to him as high draft picks and "elite prospects". So the answer would be whoever is concensus top 5 in any given draft I would presume.

Except not. He's already stated his expectation is for a GM to look past all the consensus and not draft any QB if they aren't going to be heroes... granted that GM would get fired, but still.

[Nobody]

This isn’t pixie dust or voodoo or oracle consulting or otherwise magic. And it better not be magic because (a) an entire personnel industry is littered with cash, infrastructure, and humans which lay claim to “our expertise/apparatus really matters a lot” (put another way “it’s not a crapshoot because otherwise…why does our flooded in cash industry exist?”) and (b) people backstop those claims by vigorously supporting various personnel people/regimes (but they keep a nice handy Motte, “it’s basically a crapshoot(!)”, to retreat to when the Bailey becomes hard/impossible to defend).

If it’s not magic, then people/regimes need to do their jobs well or do something else…just like every other industry in the world.

Alternatively, they could admit defeat…that their industry of alleged expertise is utter bullshit and they’re facilitating a snake oil fiction so they can steal money.

I’m pretty sure they’ll stick with the “it’s not magic, we’re indispensable experts, people getting paid a gang of cash to do a job need to do their job better or come up with a better (perhaps even leaner) process of evaluation” line!

[Bootz]

It's not for anyone specifically. Can't speak for others but @Snake has already admitted winning doesn't mean as much to him as high draft picks and "elite prospects". So the answer would be whoever is concensus top 5 in any given draft I would presume.

Except not. He's already stated his expectation is for a GM to look past all the consensus and not draft any QB if they aren't going to be heroes... granted that GM would get fired, but still.

This is simply another way of saying "HE DOESNT CARE".

[Grahamburn]

This isn’t pixie dust or voodoo or oracle consulting or otherwise magic. And it better not be magic because (a) an entire personnel industry is littered with cash, infrastructure, and humans which lay claim to “our expertise/apparatus really matters a lot” (put another way “it’s not a crapshoot because otherwise…why does our flooded in cash industry exist?”) and (b) people backstop those claims by vigorously supporting various personnel people/regimes (but they keep a nice handy Motte, “it’s basically a crapshoot(!)”, to retreat to when the Bailey becomes hard/impossible to defend).

If it’s not magic, then people/regimes need to do their jobs well or do something else…just like every other industry in the world.

Alternatively, they could admit defeat…that their industry of alleged expertise is utter bullshit and they’re facilitating a snake oil fiction so they can steal money.

I’m pretty sure they’ll stick with the “it’s not magic, we’re indispensable experts, people getting paid a gang of cash to do a job need to do their job better or come up with a better (perhaps even leaner) process of evaluation” line!

There are just so many underlying factors as to why a prospect succeeds or doesn't. I think that's why the word "crapshoot" gets thrown around so often. What if Jameis Winston's red flags had caused him to drop and the Chiefs traded up for him instead of going #1 to us in 2015? What if we traded up for Patrick Mahomes in 2017? Would the arc of their careers be the same? The trajectory of our teams? Did the Chiefs identify something specifically in Patrick that they didn't see in Jameis or did they just get lucky that Patrick fell in a draft with more QB options and Jameis didn't?

Both front offices have had home runs and whiffs since.

[Doctor]

This isn’t pixie dust or voodoo or oracle consulting or otherwise magic. And it better not be magic because (a) an entire personnel industry is littered with cash, infrastructure, and humans which lay claim to “our expertise/apparatus really matters a lot” (put another way “it’s not a crapshoot because otherwise…why does our flooded in cash industry exist?”) and (b) people backstop those claims by vigorously supporting various personnel people/regimes (but they keep a nice handy Motte, “it’s basically a crapshoot(!)”, to retreat to when the Bailey becomes hard/impossible to defend).

If it’s not magic, then people/regimes need to do their jobs well or do something else…just like every other industry in the world.

Alternatively, they could admit defeat…that their industry of alleged expertise is utter bullshit and they’re facilitating a snake oil fiction so they can steal money.

I’m pretty sure they’ll stick with the “it’s not magic, we’re indispensable experts, people getting paid a gang of cash to do a job need to do their job better or come up with a better (perhaps even leaner) process of evaluation” line!

This is circular MLM logic at its best. Of course the fat pills work, it's a billion dollar industry! People bet on race horses too, but at the end of the day you bet your ass it's a whole lot of luck picking which one is going to win. Those who think otherwise are soon to be degenerates. We pour billions into the weather industry, tell me just how much you actually trust your weatherman to get it right on a daily basis? Trying to use the size or cost of an industry as proof of it's validity is circular at best.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't try your best. We might suck at predicting the weather but going out there with SOME percentage is better than none. At the end of the day you have to bet on a pony, may as well look at their metrics. Feel good about your choice. Your livelihood depends on it after all. But there's a reason this is an industry of "experts", because there is no one ACTUAL expert, no one who has actually cracked the code.

In fact, every year when the "experts" prove to you how clueless they are when they spend hours debating "the greatest QB Class of all time" and all the dudes end up sucking. If there was anyone with a cracked code they had said, "Ya know what guys, none of these guys don't have it". But there wasn't. There shouldn't be a top 10 QB ranking there should be a short list of the 2 names of QBs who are actually going to make it out of a class and that's it. But absolutely no one operates that way because they are usually relieved when the QBs that make it land in their top 10 at all. Because they are not as good at this as they think. And we need to stop acting and expecting this imaginary level of expertise.

[Snake]

Do the best bankers and smartest people end up at the senior positions at Goldman Sachs and running the biggest hedge funds?

I think we all would agree that is typically not the case. A lot of - if not most - industries run on their own momentum and channels of nepotism.

The NFL is no different.

[Doctor]

Lets take the hottest GM in the game, Howie Roseman.

Drafted Wentz with a top pick, drafted Hurts with a second rounder 4 years later, then 2 years later tries to trade a bunch of picks away for Russell Wilson.

How expertly expert is Howie really?

[acmillis]

Lets take the hottest GM in the game, Howie Roseman.

Drafted Wentz with a top pick, drafted Hurts with a second rounder 4 years later, then 2 years later tries to trade a bunch of picks away for Russell Wilson.

How expertly expert is Howie really?

@Bootz didn't you say that if a team is paying a QB a ton of money, they shouldn't draft a QB with a high 1st rounder (like I'm suggesting NYG do this upcoming draft)? Seemed to workout for the Eagles, huh?