The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

[CannonFire]

You're sure about that?

Canales was a rookie OC at this time last year and we had to deal with some of his inexperience early on (not that he was terrible, but he was developing. Coen is a little more polished coming in)

Oh stop. Canales has been in the NFL since 2010 while Coen since 2018. Coen is more polished simply because he was on the Rams staff and not Seahawks? Or is it that you think it's because he was a figure head in McVay's offense? If he was that good as an OC in LA, why did he go to Kentucky and not stay in the NFL? The $100k raise? I don't think so. In LA, he was no different than Pete Carmichael in New Orleans under Payton.

Coen may do fine, I'm just saying you're not going to sell me on him as being a definitive upgrade. I mean, if he had gone back to the college ranks to be a head coach, I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It was a lateral position as an offensive coordinator.

[CannonFire]

They won 9 games last year and didn't ADD any key pieces to help them improve. The unbias industry of analysts think we're a 7-win team. David is saying exactly what I'd expect him to say, but that doesn't mean that it's reality. We have a "decent" roster, it's not a "winning" roster. Get your head out of your pom-poms and you'll see the reality of why people aren't all that happy about OBP.

I love how the chief argument in everyone one of your post is "but look at what others are saying".
Yes, the "unbias objective industry" (whatever that means) had us picking near #1 last year.

Even your Baker hate isn't anything valid like "too short to see over the line," or "will revert to bad habits under pressure" or "can't shake off a hit" or anything actually valid. It's "two trash front offices gave up on him so that clearly means he isn't good".

Oh give me a break. Vegas had our O/U number at 7.5 last year... they weren't too far off. Dude, we struggled to beat Carolina... TWICE last year. We almost lost to Atlanta, TWICE last year. These two teams TOTALED 9 wins last year.

LOL, those aren't even valid reasons either. Baker is a slow processer, holds the ball too long, and gets tunnel vision. The only thing separating him from Winston is that he's not a terrible decision maker... that's it. Otherwise, they're the same QB (no, I'm not talking talents, I'm talking about game play). Over his WHOLE career, his metrics are of an average to below average player in the NFL. In Cleveland, he had a good OLine, great running game, and decent WR's, and still was "meh". The coach that he had his best season with, said "no thanks", then with a rotating door at QB this year, that same coach with LESS talent, still won 11 games.

[Bootz]

2023
4-2 vs NFC South
6-7 vs rest of the NFL

2022
4-2 vs NFC South
4-8 vs rest of the NFL

2021
4-2 vs NFC South
10-3 vs rest of NFL

2020
5-2 vs NFC South
10-3 vs rest of NFL

[Grahamburn]

Canales was a rookie OC at this time last year and we had to deal with some of his inexperience early on (not that he was terrible, but he was developing. Coen is a little more polished coming in)

Oh stop. Canales has been in the NFL since 2010 while Coen since 2018. Coen is more polished simply because he was on the Rams staff and not Seahawks? Or is it that you think it's because he was a figure head in McVay's offense? If he was that good as an OC in LA, why did he go to Kentucky and not stay in the NFL? The $100k raise? I don't think so. In LA, he was no different than Pete Carmichael in New Orleans under Payton.

Coen may do fine, I'm just saying you're not going to sell me on him as being a definitive upgrade. I mean, if he had gone back to the college ranks to be a head coach, I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It was a lateral position as an offensive coordinator.

The glaring difference is Canales didn't have play-calling experience. Coen does. The hope being the offense can hit the ground running a little more. Whether or not that ends up being the case remains to be seen.

[Bootz]

Oh stop. Canales has been in the NFL since 2010 while Coen since 2018. Coen is more polished simply because he was on the Rams staff and not Seahawks? Or is it that you think it's because he was a figure head in McVay's offense? If he was that good as an OC in LA, why did he go to Kentucky and not stay in the NFL? The $100k raise? I don't think so. In LA, he was no different than Pete Carmichael in New Orleans under Payton.

Coen may do fine, I'm just saying you're not going to sell me on him as being a definitive upgrade. I mean, if he had gone back to the college ranks to be a head coach, I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It was a lateral position as an offensive coordinator.

The glaring difference is Canales didn't have play-calling experience. Coen does. The hope being the offense can hit the ground running a little more. Whether or not that ends up being the case remains to be seen.

Agreed. Coen at least has playcalling experience, albeit at the college level only. But it was way more experience than Canales came here with.

[CannonFire]

League wide, not picking up the fifth year is growing in popularity. Or maybe they are shrinking the list?

I’ve posted it in a few threads that disparage JTS or Licht for JTS, but 2021 was an all time bad draft. Only 18 guys from the class have had their fifth year options picked up.

And if you look beyond that there’s only a handful of guys who’ve made any kind of impact.

Logical reason? Covid stunted their development and once they got into the league they couldn’t hang.

You do realize that only the 1st round picks get 5th year options, right? Also, technically it's 19 and no 18. Bateman simply signed an extension instead of the option being picked up. The fact that 19 out of 32 got it, shows that it was on average. From 2011 to 2020, the total number of players who had their options picked up (or contracts extended), was 191... and average of 19.1 per year.

From the article: "The average exercise rate per team is 59.8%, and the median is 60.8%." That's pretty much what this year was... 19/32 = 59.38%

[CannonFire]

Oh stop. Canales has been in the NFL since 2010 while Coen since 2018. Coen is more polished simply because he was on the Rams staff and not Seahawks? Or is it that you think it's because he was a figure head in McVay's offense? If he was that good as an OC in LA, why did he go to Kentucky and not stay in the NFL? The $100k raise? I don't think so. In LA, he was no different than Pete Carmichael in New Orleans under Payton.

Coen may do fine, I'm just saying you're not going to sell me on him as being a definitive upgrade. I mean, if he had gone back to the college ranks to be a head coach, I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It was a lateral position as an offensive coordinator.

The glaring difference is Canales didn't have play-calling experience. Coen does. The hope being the offense can hit the ground running a little more. Whether or not that ends up being the case remains to be seen.

By play-calling experience, I'm assuming you mean at Kentucky, right? If you want to go with that, that's fine, but I don't see it that way. College and pros are two totally different animals. I won't fault you for thinking that way, but I'm not.

[CannonFire]

Was it objective, unbiased and knowledgeable last year when everyone, national media and local fans were saying we are a laughing stock, lucky to get 2 wins, and last place?

The media are stupid, they have bias. Vegas and fantasy outlets, have NO bias. Vegas had us at 7.5 wins last year. Most fantasy outlets, who's job is predict production, had us at 8 wins last year. That's not far off. Guess what, Vegas has us at 7.5 wins this year too. I haven't started on fantasy stuff yet, so we'll see what they say come July or August when I start to care.

[Grahamburn]

The glaring difference is Canales didn't have play-calling experience. Coen does. The hope being the offense can hit the ground running a little more. Whether or not that ends up being the case remains to be seen.

By play-calling experience, I'm assuming you mean at Kentucky, right? If you want to go with that, that's fine, but I don't see it that way. College and pros are two totally different animals. I won't fault you for thinking that way, but I'm not.

Yes. He has installed offenses. Tailored specific game plans. Called his play-book. Worked with McVay and Baker previously. Etc. That is all important experience whether in college or not. That being said Canales parlayed his one year with us into a head coaching job, albeit with arguably the worst organization in pro sports, but still. Coen has a lot to live up to.

[CannonFire]

2023
4-2 vs NFC South
6-7 vs rest of the NFL

2022
4-2 vs NFC South
4-8 vs rest of the NFL

2021
4-2 vs NFC South
10-3 vs rest of NFL

2020
5-2 vs NFC South
10-3 vs rest of NFL

They still may go 4-2 vs the South this year. Unless Carolina takes a major jump, I still think we sweep them, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't be shocked if they got us one time.

I don't see wins vs Baltimore, Philly, San Fran, @ Dallas, @ Detroit, @ LAC or @ KC. I think we beat Washington and NYG. That gets us to 6-9. I don't know about Vegas and Denver. I'm leaning win vs Vegas... but I think the earlier we play Denver the better. So I see us at 7... maybe 8 wins.

[CannonFire]

And yet despite "not adding anything or improving in any way" we're expected at 7 now... Hmm.... Maybe one of the "realist" can explain how that happens.

I'm confused by the "we did not add anything" I don't recall forfeiting draft picks. Nor recall sending Whitehead and Hall back to NY.

The reason you're confused is because I didn't say "we did not add anything". I said, we "didn't ADD any key pieces". Give me a list of players that we added who are upgrades to the players they replaced. Then try to sell me on: Atlanta didn't get better when they swapped out Ridder for Cousins.

Also, don't give me draft picks, every team made draft picks. We have no idea who's going to pan out and who isn't. If you're going to tell me that our guys are going to pan but the teams we play this year, they're players aren't, then that's you just being completely bias.

Here, I'll help you out: https://overthecap.com/free-agency/tampa-bay-buccaneers

Point to the key additions and where they're upgrades over the people they replaced.

[Sdbucs]

4-2 vs division Falcons: DAL, NYG, KC, LAC, SEA, PIT, DEN, LV, PHI, WAS, MIN. Falcons should win at least 5 of these, probably hit 7. Falcons finish with 11 wins.

3-3 vs division Saints: CLE, DEN, LV, LAR, PHI, WAS, DAL, GB, KC, LAC, NYG. Saints should win at least 4 of these, probably hit 5. Saints finish with 8 wins.

4-2 vs division Bucs: PHI, WAS, DEN, LV, SF, BAL, DAL, NYG, KC, LAC, DET. Bucs should win at least 4 of these and probably only those 4. Bucs finish with 8 wins.

1-5 vs division Panthers: DAL, NYG, KC, LAC, AZ, CIN, PHI, WAS, DEN, LV, CHI. Panthers should win at least 1 and probably only 1. Panthers finish with 2 wins.


Looks like based on schedule our only hope is going better than 4-2 vs our division and pulling an upset. Every one of our non-division matchups that's not a bottom tier team is a strong team. We won't get away with just beating bad teams this year. Falcons rolled a great schedule this season.

[Bootz]

This has potential to go really bad because these are quite literally our only 3 outside corners.

[Snake]

I’m starting to think Todd doesn’t really care who is in his secondary. It’s like Gruden and QBs.

[Heisenberg]

And we seem to always be dealing with injuries to our CBs. To not even at least bring in some cheap depth is baffling to me. Plus McCollum got exposed in the playoffs when he had to fill in for injuries. If he doesn't take a big step things can get really bad this season. We passed on TJ multiple times so the FO seems really confident for whatever reason.

[mdb1958]

And we seem to always be dealing with injuries to our CBs. To not even at least bring in some cheap depth is baffling to me. Plus McCollum got exposed in the playoffs when he had to fill in for injuries. If he doesn't take a big step things can get really bad this season. We passed on TJ multiple times so the FO seems really confident for whatever reason.

It's unrealistic to make a draft have more picks than you actually have, or so I've been told.

Do you not think Funderbirk can be cheap depth for us?

[Selmon Rules]

Canales was a rookie OC at this time last year and we had to deal with some of his inexperience early on (not that he was terrible, but he was developing. Coen is a little more polished coming in)

Oh stop. Canales has been in the NFL since 2010 while Coen since 2018. Coen is more polished simply because he was on the Rams staff and not Seahawks? Or is it that you think it's because he was a figure head in McVay's offense? If he was that good as an OC in LA, why did he go to Kentucky and not stay in the NFL? The $100k raise? I don't think so. In LA, he was no different than Pete Carmichael in New Orleans under Payton.

Coen may do fine, I'm just saying you're not going to sell me on him as being a definitive upgrade. I mean, if he had gone back to the college ranks to be a head coach, I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It was a lateral position as an offensive coordinator.

I understand the reason he went to KY was to actually call the plays as he wasn't going to get that experience in LA.

That's the only thing he has done that Canales hadn't done when he got here.

[mdb1958]

Washington cut Joshua Pryor we should bring him to camp.

[Bootz]

Washington cut Joshua Pryor we should bring him to camp.

I was hoping they would

[Central_Buc]

I'm confused by the "we did not add anything" I don't recall forfeiting draft picks. Nor recall sending Whitehead and Hall back to NY.

The reason you're confused is because I didn't say "we did not add anything". I said, we "didn't ADD any key pieces". Give me a list of players that we added who are upgrades to the players they replaced. Then try to sell me on: Atlanta didn't get better when they swapped out Ridder for Cousins.

Also, don't give me draft picks, every team made draft picks. We have no idea who's going to pan out and who isn't. If you're going to tell me that our guys are going to pan but the teams we play this year, they're players aren't, then that's you just being completely bias.

Here, I'll help you out: https://overthecap.com/free-agency/tampa-bay-buccaneers

Point to the key additions and where they're upgrades over the people they replaced.

How is not adding Whitehead not a key addition? We now arguably now have the best Safety duo in the league with him coming back.

They are reportedly trying to get Wirfs and AWJ resigned. How much do you think that's gonna cost Mr. Cap master?

[Central_Buc]

2023
4-2 vs NFC South
6-7 vs rest of the NFL

2022
4-2 vs NFC South
4-8 vs rest of the NFL

2021
4-2 vs NFC South
10-3 vs rest of NFL

2020
5-2 vs NFC South
10-3 vs rest of NFL

They still may go 4-2 vs the South this year. Unless Carolina takes a major jump, I still think we sweep them, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't be shocked if they got us one time.

I don't see wins vs Baltimore, Philly, San Fran, @ Dallas, @ Detroit, @ LAC or @ KC. I think we beat Washington and NYG. That gets us to 6-9. I don't know about Vegas and Denver. I'm leaning win vs Vegas... but I think the earlier we play Denver the better. So I see us at 7... maybe 8 wins.

With exception of San Fran these are all winnable. San Fran just has our number right now.

[Bootz]

The reason you're confused is because I didn't say "we did not add anything". I said, we "didn't ADD any key pieces". Give me a list of players that we added who are upgrades to the players they replaced. Then try to sell me on: Atlanta didn't get better when they swapped out Ridder for Cousins.

Also, don't give me draft picks, every team made draft picks. We have no idea who's going to pan out and who isn't. If you're going to tell me that our guys are going to pan but the teams we play this year, they're players aren't, then that's you just being completely bias.

Here, I'll help you out: https://overthecap.com/free-agency/tampa-bay-buccaneers

Point to the key additions and where they're upgrades over the people they replaced.

How is not adding Whitehead not a key addition? We now arguably now have the best Safety duo in the league with him coming back.

They are reportedly trying to get Wirfs and AWJ resigned. How much do you think that's gonna cost Mr. Cap master?

This is a MAAAAAJJOR stretch.
Let's be clear, Jordan Whitehead should be an upgrade over Ryan Neal. Hell anyone is. But Whitehead isn't anywhere near AWJs level. Honestly he's a fringe safety and we paid him accordingly.

I'm sure most of this you're basing on how great AWJ is. But there are actual duos in the league where both safeties are great players. Miami signing Jordan Poyer to pair with Jevon Holland is an example of both safeties being difference makers. Baltimore (Hamilton & Williams), San Francisco (Hufunga & Gipson), those duos are both better than what we have with Jordan Whitehead. And I'd say whoever signs Justin Simmons, if their other safety is at least average they would be better than what we have with AWJ/Whitehead.

[CannonFire]

The reason you're confused is because I didn't say "we did not add anything". I said, we "didn't ADD any key pieces". Give me a list of players that we added who are upgrades to the players they replaced. Then try to sell me on: Atlanta didn't get better when they swapped out Ridder for Cousins.

Also, don't give me draft picks, every team made draft picks. We have no idea who's going to pan out and who isn't. If you're going to tell me that our guys are going to pan but the teams we play this year, they're players aren't, then that's you just being completely bias.

Here, I'll help you out: https://overthecap.com/free-agency/tampa-bay-buccaneers

Point to the key additions and where they're upgrades over the people they replaced.

How is not adding Whitehead not a key addition? We now arguably now have the best Safety duo in the league with him coming back.

They are reportedly trying to get Wirfs and AWJ resigned. How much do you think that's gonna cost Mr. Cap master?

Whitehead is a nice player, but he's not anything special or great, but he is an upgrade of Neal. I like the signing and he helps, but I don't think the upgrade is tangible.

I agree about Wirfs & AWJ. Imagine how much easier it would have been to get those deals done if we didn't spend (at least), $50M over the next 2 years on a below average starting QB?

[Grahamburn]

Dude, let it go...

[CannonFire]

Oh stop. Canales has been in the NFL since 2010 while Coen since 2018. Coen is more polished simply because he was on the Rams staff and not Seahawks? Or is it that you think it's because he was a figure head in McVay's offense? If he was that good as an OC in LA, why did he go to Kentucky and not stay in the NFL? The $100k raise? I don't think so. In LA, he was no different than Pete Carmichael in New Orleans under Payton.

Coen may do fine, I'm just saying you're not going to sell me on him as being a definitive upgrade. I mean, if he had gone back to the college ranks to be a head coach, I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It was a lateral position as an offensive coordinator.

I understand the reason he went to KY was to actually call the plays as he wasn't going to get that experience in LA.

That's the only thing he has done that Canales hadn't done when he got here.

This I did not know. Good stuff, thanks. This at least moves me to giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is an upgrade over Canales (but that's because I'm a Bucs fan).

[CannonFire]

They still may go 4-2 vs the South this year. Unless Carolina takes a major jump, I still think we sweep them, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't be shocked if they got us one time.

I don't see wins vs Baltimore, Philly, San Fran, @ Dallas, @ Detroit, @ LAC or @ KC. I think we beat Washington and NYG. That gets us to 6-9. I don't know about Vegas and Denver. I'm leaning win vs Vegas... but I think the earlier we play Denver the better. So I see us at 7... maybe 8 wins.

With exception of San Fran these are all winnable. San Fran just has our number right now.

So you're thinking what... 16-1? 14-3? 12-5?

I'll take the under.

[Central_Buc]

With exception of San Fran these are all winnable. San Fran just has our number right now.

So you're thinking what... 16-1? 14-3? 12-5?

I'll take the under.

No lol..I think between 10 and 11. I'm tempted at 12 but still. I just think the teams you listed "we can" take some of them. But out of the list it seems San Fran gives us the most trouble. We don't play KC and Baltimore enough to say we match up well or not. Even though our last 2 games at home against those two were underwhelming.

[Central_Buc]

@Bootz and @CannonFire

Fair enough on Whitehead but I believe the two work well together.

[Phantom]

“There’s not many days where I don't think Baker wakes up and he doesn’t have a chip on his left shoulder, but there is definitely a feeling that this is his team.”

Tampa Bay Buccaneers offensive coordinator Liam Coen on re-signing Baker Mayfield

[13F11B]

The glaring difference is Canales didn't have play-calling experience. Coen does. The hope being the offense can hit the ground running a little more. Whether or not that ends up being the case remains to be seen.

Agreed. Coen at least has playcalling experience, albeit at the college level only. But it was way more experience than Canales came here with.

As a coach:
Brown (2010)
Quarterbacks coach
Rhode Island (2011)
Pass game coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Brown (2012–2013)
Quarterbacks coach
UMass (2014–2015)
Pass game coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Maine (2016–2017)
Offensive coordinator
Los Angeles Rams (2018–2019)
Assistant wide receivers coach
Los Angeles Rams (2020)
Assistant quarterbacks coach
Kentucky (2021)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Los Angeles Rams (2022)
Offensive coordinator
Kentucky (2023)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2024–present)
Offensive coordinator

[Bootz]

Agreed. Coen at least has playcalling experience, albeit at the college level only. But it was way more experience than Canales came here with.

As a coach:
Brown (2010)
Quarterbacks coach
Rhode Island (2011)
Pass game coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Brown (2012–2013)
Quarterbacks coach
UMass (2014–2015)
Pass game coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Maine (2016–2017)
Offensive coordinator
Los Angeles Rams (2018–2019)
Assistant wide receivers coach
Los Angeles Rams (2020)
Assistant quarterbacks coach
Kentucky (2021)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Los Angeles Rams (2022)
Offensive coordinator
Kentucky (2023)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2024–present)
Offensive coordinator

Tell me you sincerely believe he called plays for Sean McVay.

[Phantom]

Hold on a minute.. I could have sworn some of you were praising Ceon as a great hire!. Doc maybe

[kaimaru]

As a coach:
Brown (2010)
Quarterbacks coach
Rhode Island (2011)
Pass game coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Brown (2012–2013)
Quarterbacks coach
UMass (2014–2015)
Pass game coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Maine (2016–2017)
Offensive coordinator
Los Angeles Rams (2018–2019)
Assistant wide receivers coach
Los Angeles Rams (2020)
Assistant quarterbacks coach
Kentucky (2021)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Los Angeles Rams (2022)
Offensive coordinator
Kentucky (2023)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2024–present)
Offensive coordinator

Tell me you sincerely believe he called plays for Sean McVay.

Coen called one game for them, week 12 versus the Chiefs. I can imagine McVay thinking Bryce Perkins is starting? Hey, Liam, I got something for you

[Central_Buc]

Its not really a bad thing that he learned from McVey for 1 year.

[Bootz]

Tell me you sincerely believe he called plays for Sean McVay.

Coen called one game for them, week 12 versus the Chiefs. I can imagine McVay thinking Bryce Perkins is starting? Hey, Liam, I got something for you

They scored 10 points and as you mentioned didn't have Stafford. Don't see how that equates to @13F11B implying Coen was McVay's playcaller.