Rapid Reactions: Bucs lose to the Lions 31-23

[acmillis]

I guess Bowles didn't want Baker to throw his third INT of the game?!?!?
I'm (kind of) kidding.

[Backside]

The story of the playoffs was great looking drives being killed by massive sacks around the 50 yard line. Offense looked super crisp other than the drive killing plays which were way too common.

Glad I didn't miss something with the timeout. I had assumed the TV graphic was incorrect when I saw everyone walking to shake hands at midfield with a running clock with 30+ seconds left and fourth down... incredibly weak move to not call that timeout. It was a one score game!

[Doctor]

I had turned off the game by then, but I saw it this morning. Was a little peeved myself when I saw it too.

However with that said this team fought super hard all game long and even got the ball back for us at the end. I'm not gonna devalue that because we didn't try to close out the game with wackadoodle lateral play down 11.

To tack on to this the Lions had already kneeled three times too instead of running it three times, which they could've done. Make them long, time wasting sideline runs, the clock is zero by the time the FG is up in the air make or miss. This game was over.

Again, played with absolute guts all game long. If you want to reverse all that because they didn't Schiano the knee at the end, that's on you. But I haven't heard a single player mention it.

[Grahamburn]

I didn’t notice live bc I was so defeated, but we could have got the ball back. Bowles decided to throw in the towel.

So that’s cool. WTF?!

Todd Bowles on why he didn't call his last timeout on Detroit's 4th down kneel: "They already had the field goal lined up, and there would’ve been about 12 seconds left on the clock to end the ball game. We weren’t going to come back from that."

[MRM]

I thought the team played hard, but made some critical mistakes. White was terrible on blitz pick ups. Either the line was confused or Baker was confused on some other blown protections. I'm glad they didn't get embarrassed.

[Jonny]

Lions were the more talented team and played a much cleaner game.

Another strong draft from Licht and we will be right up there with the best teams in NFC. I wish we had cap space to allow us to sign a dog like Khalil Mack, who will likely be a cap casualty in LA.

[Backside]

I didn’t notice live bc I was so defeated, but we could have got the ball back. Bowles decided to throw in the towel.

So that’s cool. WTF?!

Todd Bowles on why he didn't call his last timeout on Detroit's 4th down kneel: "They already had the field goal lined up, and there would’ve been about 12 seconds left on the clock to end the ball game. We weren’t going to come back from that."

C'mon Todd... The talk of firing you is gone but wtf is this? Just assuming a 50+ yard field goal will be good? And no, it was 30+ seconds.

WEAK

[Primeminister]

I didn’t notice live bc I was so defeated, but we could have got the ball back. Bowles decided to throw in the towel.

So that’s cool. WTF?!

Wondered that last night too. They would have had to attempt a FG with about 36 seconds left.

Just looked back at it and you’re right. WTF was that?

[Miller4Prez64]

That was definitely a weak decision from Bowles. Probably still were going to lose, but it is the playoffs you should at least gives your players a chance to block the FG. It’s not worth getting upset over, but letting the Lions get away with screwing up the kneel downs was definitely not his brightest moment.

[GreatTimes]

What kind of HC doesn't use a time out to give the team a chance to tie or win a playoff game? A HC who has a losing record as a HC.

[GreatTimes]

I had turned off the game by then, but I saw it this morning. Was a little peeved myself when I saw it too.

However with that said this team fought super hard all game long and even got the ball back for us at the end. I'm not gonna devalue that because we didn't try to close out the game with wackadoodle lateral play down 11.

To tack on to this the Lions had already kneeled three times too instead of running it three times, which they could've done. Make them long, time wasting sideline runs, the clock is zero by the time the FG is up in the air make or miss. This game was over.

Again, played with absolute guts all game long. If you want to reverse all that because they didn't Schiano the knee at the end, that's on you. But I haven't heard a single player mention it.

Except after the Lions 3rd down play there were 36 seconds left on the play clock. If the Bucs called time out, it would have forced the Lions to punt. Bucs would have 30 seconds left in the game to do something, anything. Only a HC with a losing record as a HC would fail to call the last timeout.

[Four Verticals]

I didn’t notice live bc I was so defeated, but we could have got the ball back. Bowles decided to throw in the towel.

So that’s cool. WTF?!

Wondered that last night too. They would have had to attempt a FG with about 36 seconds left.

I wondered whether the scoreboard had the correct number of TOs for the Bucs. The Lions didn't use all of the play clock on, in particular, the final kneel down which made me wonder if everyone thought the Bucs were out of timeouts at that point. It was just weird.

[Doctor]

And they punt while in FG range too?

Oh boy. This narrative just gets better and better for us. Can we conclude it with Wirfs catching the lateral for the TD too? That's how I like to imagine it would've gone down had we called that time out.

[Grahamburn]

I guess Bowles didn't want Baker to throw his third INT of the game?!?!?
I'm (kind of) kidding.

Don't understand how you watch that game yesterday and not want Baker Mayfield to be QB of this team.

[Doctor]

I guess Bowles didn't want Baker to throw his third INT of the game?!?!?
I'm (kind of) kidding.

Don't understand how you watch that game yesterday and not want Baker Mayfield to be QB of this team.

Because the next Mahomes is in the next draft, we just have to identify him and go get him. Duh.

[Grahamburn]

And they punt while in FG range too?

Oh boy. This narrative just gets better and better for us. Can we conclude it with Wirfs catching the lateral for the TD too? That's how I like to imagine it would've gone down had we called that time out.

It's low percentage, but it has happened in the playoffs before. Literally.

We had missed one from 50. It's not automatic. We also had a touchdown drive on us this season from the 25 with :56 seconds left. We would have had the ball from the spot of the kick if he'd missed it.

You can defend him all you want, but he screwed up.

[Miller4Prez64]

And they punt while in FG range too?

Oh boy. This narrative just gets better and better for us. Can we conclude it with Wirfs catching the lateral for the TD too? That's how I like to imagine it would've gone down had we called that time out.

It's low percentage, but it has happened in the playoffs before. Literally.

We had missed one from 50. It's not automatic. We also had a touchdown drive on us this season from the 25 with :56 seconds left. We would have had the ball from the spot of the kick if he'd missed it.

You can defend him all you want, but he screwed up.

If you block the kick, then the chances of scoring go up big time too. It was definitely a long shot and wasn’t probably going to lead to a W, but Bowles still should have given his players a chance to make a play. It’s not a firable offense, but it was a weak decision and hopefully he learns from it.

[Doctor]

Wait are they punting or are they missing the FG? I need to get the script right.


I said it in my first post, I was peeved when I saw it too. But it's like when people point the finger at whichever player makes the last mistake in the game as the reason why we lost... this isn't the reason we lost. It doesn't even make the list.

[Grahamburn]

Wait are they punting or are they missing the FG? I need to get the script right.


I said it in my first post, I was peeved when I saw it too. But it's like when people point the finger at whichever player makes the last mistake in the game as the reason why we lost... this isn't the reason we lost. It doesn't even make the list.

Who said it was the reason they lost?

[acmillis]

I guess Bowles didn't want Baker to throw his third INT of the game?!?!?
I'm (kind of) kidding.

Don't understand how you watch that game yesterday and not want Baker Mayfield to be QB of this team.

I just said in the other thread that I'd tag him, make him prove he can string together two good seasons in a row, and then pay him if he does that.

I keep saying the same thing, but the Baker lovers are prisoners of the moment.
HE HAS NEVER HAD BACK-TO-BACK decent seasons in the NFL. He is the ultimate Hot/Cold QB. I don't want that as my franchise QB.

Again, if he shines again next season, then give him crazy money, but please, sweet baby jesus in your little manger, do not give him crazy money for having one good season.

[Backside]

Wait are they punting or are they missing the FG? I need to get the script right.


I said it in my first post, I was peeved when I saw it too. But it's like when people point the finger at whichever player makes the last mistake in the game as the reason why we lost... this isn't the reason we lost. It doesn't even make the list.

Who or what are you arguing against?

[Buc2]

This post is not a rapid reaction. It's more like a reflection.

I have felt quite differently about each of the 3 seasons since the 2020 SB winning season.

2021 - I was sorely disappointed and even a bit angry that we not only didn't get back to the NFC CC game but missed a chance to repeat as SB champions as well. I felt like a huge opportunity was wasted with that loss to the Rams in the Divisional round.

2022 - I went in with high expectations again. I mean, Brady came back. There were lots of good pieces back from 2021 on both sides of the ball. Alas, in the end, I remember feeling kind of relieved it was over. I was so tired of watching this team look so bad week after week and knowing we had no chance in the playoffs because we were every bit as a bad as we looked and the whole world knew it.

2023 - Unlike 2022, I went in with much lower expectations. Brady was gone for real this time and I didn't believe Mayfield was the answer. Hell, I hadn't seen anything from his career to date to instill much confidence he could be the answer to Brady's retirement. Even during the good start I remained fairly even keeled...didn't let myself get too excited because I felt it would all come crashing back down. After that terrible 1-6 mid-season debacle, I felt like my feelings were validated. Then the hot streak and I got excited for the first time all season. Why? Because it was happening in December! The month the good teams really start to separate from the not so good teams. I really wanted the season to continue yesterday because I felt the team had turned a corner. Even today, I feel good about the team's future. Disappointed we're not playing next weekend? Sure. But my head is in a much better place than it was at the end of last season.

So I ask...why not the Bucs again in 2024? Why not a 5th playoff season in a row? Why not a 4th Division Championship in a row? Why not a deeper playoff run?

We'll see how this offseason goes. But, today, I'm hopeful.

[Miller4Prez64]

Don't understand how you watch that game yesterday and not want Baker Mayfield to be QB of this team.

I just said in the other thread that I'd tag him, make him prove he can string together two good seasons in a row, and then pay him if he does that.

I keep saying the same thing, but the Baker lovers are prisoners of the moment.
HE HAS NEVER HAD BACK-TO-BACK decent seasons in the NFL. He is the ultimate Hot/Cold QB. I don't want that as my franchise QB.

Again, if he shines again next season, then give him crazy money, but please, sweet baby jesus in your little manger, do not give him crazy money for having one good season.

Tagging Baker is the worst decision we could make, the cap hold for a tagged QB would take up all of our cap and force us to let Evans and AWJ walk. He either gets a new deal from scratch or walks.

[acmillis]

I just said in the other thread that I'd tag him, make him prove he can string together two good seasons in a row, and then pay him if he does that.

I keep saying the same thing, but the Baker lovers are prisoners of the moment.
HE HAS NEVER HAD BACK-TO-BACK decent seasons in the NFL. He is the ultimate Hot/Cold QB. I don't want that as my franchise QB.

Again, if he shines again next season, then give him crazy money, but please, sweet baby jesus in your little manger, do not give him crazy money for having one good season.

Tagging Baker is the worst decision we could make, the cap hold for a tagged QB would take up all of our cap and force us to let Evans and AWJ walk. He either gets a new deal from scratch or walks.

100%, unequivocally false! @Bootz you and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but back me up on this one, huh?

[Grahamburn]

Don't understand how you watch that game yesterday and not want Baker Mayfield to be QB of this team.

I just said in the other thread that I'd tag him, make him prove he can string together two good seasons in a row, and then pay him if he does that.

I keep saying the same thing, but the Baker lovers are prisoners of the moment.
HE HAS NEVER HAD BACK-TO-BACK decent seasons in the NFL. He is the ultimate Hot/Cold QB. I don't want that as my franchise QB.

Again, if he shines again next season, then give him crazy money, but please, sweet baby jesus in your little manger, do not give him crazy money for having one good season.

If you're Baker Mayfield would you sign that tag or would you feel completely insulted after you just took this franchise to a divisional playoff game for $8M? He literally made backup money this year.

[Doctor]

You sign the tag. 100%
Doesn't matter how insulted he is.

With that said the FT is the last resort here. Even a one year, non FT, is preferred (ala Barkley). A FT means we couldn't come to an agreement. Which would suck. With that said it's not world ending. If he's tagged he's signing it. You then play it out and worry about it next year.

[acmillis]

I just said in the other thread that I'd tag him, make him prove he can string together two good seasons in a row, and then pay him if he does that.

I keep saying the same thing, but the Baker lovers are prisoners of the moment.
HE HAS NEVER HAD BACK-TO-BACK decent seasons in the NFL. He is the ultimate Hot/Cold QB. I don't want that as my franchise QB.

Again, if he shines again next season, then give him crazy money, but please, sweet baby jesus in your little manger, do not give him crazy money for having one good season.

If you're Baker Mayfield would you sign that tag or would you feel completely insulted after you just took this franchise to a divisional playoff game for $8M? He literally made backup money this year.

Okay, so he doesn't sign the tag, and sits out an entire season? That's the solution?

Let's say that happens. A journeyman QB who last played football one year ago and wants franchise QB money? Who in the hell would pay him anything at all after a year off of football?

[Grahamburn]

If you're Baker Mayfield would you sign that tag or would you feel completely insulted after you just took this franchise to a divisional playoff game for $8M? He literally made backup money this year.

Okay, so he doesn't sign the tag, and sits out an entire season? That's the solution?

Let's say that happens. A journeyman QB who last played football one year ago and wants franchise QB money? Who in the hell would pay him anything at all after a year off of football?

How much guaranteed $$ would you be willing to give Baker on an extension? Carr got $100M. Jones got $92M.

The tag is estimated at $36M for next year.

[Four Verticals]

Don't understand how you watch that game yesterday and not want Baker Mayfield to be QB of this team.

I just said in the other thread that I'd tag him, make him prove he can string together two good seasons in a row, and then pay him if he does that.

I keep saying the same thing, but the Baker lovers are prisoners of the moment.
HE HAS NEVER HAD BACK-TO-BACK decent seasons in the NFL. He is the ultimate Hot/Cold QB. I don't want that as my franchise QB.

Again, if he shines again next season, then give him crazy money, but please, sweet baby jesus in your little manger, do not give him crazy money for having one good season.

Tagging him causes a much bigger hit to the cap (which is going to be a pretty big deal) than giving him a contract to spread the hit over multiple years. Give him the Geno Smith special.

[Four Verticals]

It's low percentage, but it has happened in the playoffs before. Literally.

We had missed one from 50. It's not automatic. We also had a touchdown drive on us this season from the 25 with :56 seconds left. We would have had the ball from the spot of the kick if he'd missed it.

You can defend him all you want, but he screwed up.

If you block the kick, then the chances of scoring go up big time too. It was definitely a long shot and wasn’t probably going to lead to a W, but Bowles still should have given his players a chance to make a play. It’s not a firable offense, but it was a weak decision and hopefully he learns from it.

The Lions very likely punt in that situation because of the potential of a missed FG giving the Bucs great field position. Again, the entire final drive of the Lions was weird from both teams perspective.

[Bootz]

Tagging Baker is the worst decision we could make, the cap hold for a tagged QB would take up all of our cap and force us to let Evans and AWJ walk. He either gets a new deal from scratch or walks.

100%, unequivocally false! @Bootz you and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but back me up on this one, huh?

Afraid he's more right than not. The projected QB non-exclusive tag amount is $36.3mil per Spotrac. Transition tag is $30mil. That high of a cap hit is unsustainable because it can't be manipulated.

Now would it force us to let AWJ & Evans walk? Doubtful. We could make it work but tagging Baker would make it very difficult.

[acmillis]

Okay, so he doesn't sign the tag, and sits out an entire season? That's the solution?

Let's say that happens. A journeyman QB who last played football one year ago and wants franchise QB money? Who in the hell would pay him anything at all after a year off of football?

How much guaranteed $$ would you be willing to give Baker on an extension? Carr got $100M. Jones got $92M.

The tag is estimated at $36M for next year.

36.3M is the franchise tag from what @Bootz is saying. I'm comfortable with that number. If he balls out on that tag, sure, give him $200M guaranteed.

[Bootz]

How much guaranteed $$ would you be willing to give Baker on an extension? Carr got $100M. Jones got $92M.

The tag is estimated at $36M for next year.

36.3M is the franchise tag from what @Bootz is saying. I'm comfortable with that number. If he balls out on that tag, sure, give him $200M guaranteed.

You're comfortable giving him what would've been the 2nd highest cap hit in the league in 2023?? That would really handicap what we're able to do with this team going forward.

[Jonny]

100%, unequivocally false! @Bootz you and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but back me up on this one, huh?

Afraid he's more right than not. The projected QB non-exclusive tag amount is $36.3mil per Spotrac. Transition tag is $30mil. That high of a cap hit is unsustainable because it can't be manipulated.

Now would it force us to let AWJ & Evans walk? Doubtful. We could make it work but tagging Baker would make it very difficult.

So the advantage of signing a longer term deal with Baker even if his yearly average is closer to $40 is being able to backload his contract from a salary cap standpoint?

[Bootz]

Afraid he's more right than not. The projected QB non-exclusive tag amount is $36.3mil per Spotrac. Transition tag is $30mil. That high of a cap hit is unsustainable because it can't be manipulated.

Now would it force us to let AWJ & Evans walk? Doubtful. We could make it work but tagging Baker would make it very difficult.

So the advantage of signing a longer term deal with Baker even if his yearly average is closer to $40 is being able to backload his contract from a salary cap standpoint?

Bingo. Every team paying a QB top dollar does this because you have to.

I believe there are now 9 QBs making $40mil AAV. Guess how many actually have a cap hit that large this season? 0.