acmillis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:53 pm
36.3M is the franchise tag from what @Bootz is saying. I'm comfortable with that number. If he balls out on that tag, sure, give him $200M guaranteed.
You're comfortable giving him what would've been the 2nd highest cap hit in the league in 2023?? That would really handicap what we're able to do with this team going forward.
Yes, I'm more comfortable paying him for one year at 36M than I am for 4-5 years at 120M guaranteed, 1 trillion percent, yes I am. Never have to eat dead cap, can still sign everybody we want (just like we did with the "run it back" year), and be able to move on if he reverts back to normal Baker.
That's my ideal situation...other than letting Trask start
You're comfortable giving him what would've been the 2nd highest cap hit in the league in 2023?? That would really handicap what we're able to do with this team going forward.
Yes, I'm more comfortable paying him for one year at 36M than I am for 4-5 years at 120M guaranteed, 1 trillion percent, yes I am. Never have to eat dead cap, can still sign everybody we want (just like we did with the "run it back" year), and be able to move on if he reverts back to normal Baker.
That's my ideal situation...other than letting Trask start
Except that it wouldn't allow this to occur. Nobody in the run it back year had a cap hit about $20mil. Nobody. Now you're suggesting we allocate $36mil to 1 person. It's unsustainable. The only player with a cap hit higher in 2023? Patrick Mahomes. And Baker ain't him. Nobody is.
Baker exceeded my expectations. I suspect he will get a contract that the Buccaneers can cut ties with him if need be. Likely a 4 year deal, but not fully guaranteed.
acmillis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:07 pm
Yes, I'm more comfortable paying him for one year at 36M than I am for 4-5 years at 120M guaranteed, 1 trillion percent, yes I am. Never have to eat dead cap, can still sign everybody we want (just like we did with the "run it back" year), and be able to move on if he reverts back to normal Baker.
That's my ideal situation...other than letting Trask start
Except that it wouldn't allow this to occur. Nobody in the run it back year had a cap hit about $20mil. Nobody. Now you're suggesting we allocate $36mil to 1 person. It's unsustainable. The only player with a cap hit higher in 2023? Patrick Mahomes. And Baker ain't him. Nobody is.
But if we do what you're suggesting and give him 120M guaranteed, would (if Baker is bad) cripple this team for half a decade.
We can sign anybody we want, even if we franchise Baker, it is 100% doable. Sure, we'd turn in to the Saints kicking the can down the road, but it's 100% possible. I'd rather not sign any new toys, only sign our own guys, and tag Baker than give Baker $100M+ guaranteed.
Again, he's never put together two good season in a row. He's been in the league six years and has sucked for three of them. That's the guy you want as your franchise QB?
IronDog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:43 pm
BTW, I am sure it has been written about, but why was 45 not in this game until the final moments of this, well, calling it a game is too hard to stretch.
We were never down more than a score until the fourth and it ended as a one score game and it was never an actual game? This is the first time I want to call BS on you of all people
Understood. Speaking from anger and disgust after watching my team look unprepared. Over the years, watching the other sides receivers and backs gash us for 20 yards on a third and 18, or any such action. The frustration comes primarily from the appearance that it's back to SSDD. And with few exceptions, it has been thus for as long as this team has existed. Fortunately, I do have the ability to shut off the audio so that I don't have to listen to the Kris Collingsworths and Troy Aikmans et.al. of the broadcast booth blathering on about our august opponents. "I want this team to show up to play every week, play the entire 60 minutes, like it was gonna be the last time. I see that happen for other teams.
So, please forgive me for my personal disappointment.
Except that it wouldn't allow this to occur. Nobody in the run it back year had a cap hit about $20mil. Nobody. Now you're suggesting we allocate $36mil to 1 person. It's unsustainable. The only player with a cap hit higher in 2023? Patrick Mahomes. And Baker ain't him. Nobody is.
But if we do what you're suggesting and give him 120M guaranteed, would (if Baker is bad) cripple this team for half a decade.
We can sign anybody we want, even if we franchise Baker, it is 100% doable. Sure, we'd turn in to the Saints kicking the can down the road, but it's 100% possible. I'd rather not sign any new toys, only sign our own guys, and tag Baker than give Baker $100M+ guaranteed.
Again, he's never put together two good season in a row. He's been in the league six years and has sucked for three of them. That's the guy you want as your franchise QB?
It cripples nothing. That cap hit doesn’t hinder us. On the contrary extending him probably helps us sign needed free agents at LG and safety.
Baker has also never “sucked” in Tampa. Outside of a handful of tough games he was consistently above average all year.
And if he does revert back to “suck” then you have an early pick and draft a QB at that point. He’s not going to get guarantees past 2-3 years.
But if we do what you're suggesting and give him 120M guaranteed, would (if Baker is bad) cripple this team for half a decade.
We can sign anybody we want, even if we franchise Baker, it is 100% doable. Sure, we'd turn in to the Saints kicking the can down the road, but it's 100% possible. I'd rather not sign any new toys, only sign our own guys, and tag Baker than give Baker $100M+ guaranteed.
Again, he's never put together two good season in a row. He's been in the league six years and has sucked for three of them. That's the guy you want as your franchise QB?
It cripples nothing. That cap hit doesn’t hinder us. On the contrary extending him probably helps us sign needed free agents at LG and safety.
Baker has also never “sucked” in Tampa. Outside of a handful of tough games he was consistently above average all year.
And if he does revert back to “suck” then you have an early pick and draft a QB at that point. He’s not going to get guarantees past 2-3 years.
That's my issue with the Baker fans. You're judging him on nothing but this season. I've said it eleventy billion times. He's never put together two good seasons in a row. Why are you (and the like) so eager to make him our franchise QB based on one season here while completely ignoring the fact that 50% of his NFL seasons are dogshit.
It cripples nothing. That cap hit doesn’t hinder us. On the contrary extending him probably helps us sign needed free agents at LG and safety.
Baker has also never “sucked” in Tampa. Outside of a handful of tough games he was consistently above average all year.
And if he does revert back to “suck” then you have an early pick and draft a QB at that point. He’s not going to get guarantees past 2-3 years.
That's my issue with the Baker fans. You're judging him on nothing but this season. I've said it eleventy billion times. He's never put together two good seasons in a row. Why are you (and the like) so eager to make him our franchise QB based on one season here while completely ignoring the fact that 50% of his NFL seasons are dogshit.
Why are you so adamant about making someone who has never put together even one good season in the NFL our franchise QB? Let alone a good season in Tampa.
Baker Mayfield showed us he can WIN in Tampa with a bad running game and the worst pass defense in the NFL.
Why aren’t we arguing to improve those areas of our team? You know, the actual reasons for our losses.
It cripples nothing. That cap hit doesn’t hinder us. On the contrary extending him probably helps us sign needed free agents at LG and safety.
Baker has also never “sucked” in Tampa. Outside of a handful of tough games he was consistently above average all year.
And if he does revert back to “suck” then you have an early pick and draft a QB at that point. He’s not going to get guarantees past 2-3 years.
That's my issue with the Baker fans. You're judging him on nothing but this season. I've said it eleventy billion times. He's never put together two good seasons in a row. Why are you (and the like) so eager to make him our franchise QB based on one season here while completely ignoring the fact that 50% of his NFL seasons are dogshit.
This season he's earned the right to be on the team next year. Either from a create long term contract with low guarantees past next year or franchise. It's more wild how many are saying Baker is the reason we didn't win or the reason we weren't "elite".
acmillis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:55 pm
That's my issue with the Baker fans. You're judging him on nothing but this season. I've said it eleventy billion times. He's never put together two good seasons in a row. Why are you (and the like) so eager to make him our franchise QB based on one season here while completely ignoring the fact that 50% of his NFL seasons are dogshit.
Why are you so adamant about making someone who has never put together even one good season in the NFL our franchise QB? Let alone a good season in Tampa.
Baker Mayfield showed us he can WIN in Tampa with a bad running game and the worst pass defense in the NFL.
Why aren’t we arguing to improve those areas of our team? You know, the actual reasons for our losses.
This guy is seriously acting all confused as to why on earth we seem to believe that Bakers next year in Tampa under Bowles and Canales with Evans, Godwin, Palmer, and company will look more like....
the previous year which had him in Tampa under Bowles and Canales with Evans, Godwin, Palmer, and company...
and not one of the past years which had him in Cleveland, and Caroline, and LA under 8 different HC and OCs, just as many schemes, and dozens of different teammates...
Why... why oh why.... I wonder. I just can't put my finger on it...
Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:34 pm
This guy is seriously acting all confused as to why on earth we seem to believe that Bakers next year in Tampa under Bowles and Canales with Evans, Godwin, Palmer, and company will look more like....
the previous year which had him in Tampa under Bowles and Canales with Evans, Godwin, Palmer, and company...
and not one of the past years which had him in Cleveland, and Caroline, and LA under 8 different HC and OCs, just as many schemes, and dozens of different teammates...
Why... why oh why.... I wonder. I just can't put my finger on it...
I highly doubt if Canales is back. Teper probably loves what he's seen from Bucs in playoffs and Canales is a glass half full, power of positivity guy. He's the only candidate crazy enough to go for the job if Panthers are truly interested.
GreatTimes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:15 pm
One of the main reasons the Bucs exceeded expectations this year is because the Strength of Schedule (SOS) was a lot easier than it was expected to be before the season started. The Bucs SOS was ranked as the 26th hardest. The Bucs finished the regular season 9-8 in the worst division in the NFL. Then they met the Eagles in the WC game. That Eagle team was reeling from injuries and played very poorly the last third of the season. I'm happy that the Bucs made it as far as they did, but that joy is tempered by reality.
Next season I expect the Falcons to be better with the right coaching hire and picking up the right QB. The Saints are always going to be tough. I expect next seasons SOS to end up being much better than this seasons.
I posted it was T-21. Stop quoting lies
Before you accuse someone of posting lies you should do some research first.
2024 NFL Strength of Schedule Rankings
Rank Team Opp. Record Opp. Win Pct.
1 Cleveland Browns
158-131-0 0.547
2 Baltimore Ravens
155-134-0 0.536
3 Pittsburgh Steelers
154-135-0 0.533
4 Green Bay Packers
152-137-0 0.526
4 Houston Texans
152-137-0 0.526
6 Buffalo Bills
149-140-0 0.516
6 New York Giants
149-140-0 0.516
8 New England Patriots
148-141-0 0.512
8 Jacksonville Jaguars
148-141-0 0.512
8 Las Vegas Raiders
148-141-0 0.512
11 Detroit Lions
147-142-0 0.509
12 Los Angeles Rams
146-143-0 0.505
12 San Francisco 49ers
146-143-0 0.505
12 Dallas Cowboys
146-143-0 0.505
12 New York Jets
146-143-0 0.505
16 Kansas City Chiefs
145-144-0 0.502
16 Washington Commanders
145-144-0 0.502
16 Cincinnati Bengals
145-144-0 0.502
16 Minnesota Vikings
145-144-0 0.502
20 Denver Broncos
143-146-0 0.495
21 Tennessee Titans
142-147-0 0.491
21 Indianapolis Colts
142-147-0 0.491
21 Philadelphia Eagles
142-147-0 0.491
24 Miami Dolphins
141-148-0 0.488
24 Seattle Seahawks
141-148-0 0.488
24 Arizona Cardinals
141-148-0 0.488
27 Los Angeles Chargers
138-151-0 0.478
27 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
138-151-0 0.478
29 Carolina Panthers
135-154-0 0.467
29 Chicago Bears
135-154-0 0.467
31 Atlanta Falcons
131-158-0 0.453
31 New Orleans Saints
131-158-0 0.453
So Baker has to stop doing things that every person who's ever played the QB position and will play the QB does in order to justify re-signing him. Got it.
acmillis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:55 pm
That's my issue with the Baker fans. You're judging him on nothing but this season. I've said it eleventy billion times. He's never put together two good seasons in a row. Why are you (and the like) so eager to make him our franchise QB based on one season here while completely ignoring the fact that 50% of his NFL seasons are dogshit.
This season he's earned the right to be on the team next year. Either from a create long term contract with low guarantees past next year or franchise. It's more wild how many are saying Baker is the reason we didn't win or the reason we weren't "elite".
I agree. That’s why I tag him and see how it goes before giving him true franchise qb money. I’m not saying I don’t want him back next year, I’m saying I don’t want to commit to him beyond next year right now.
This season he's earned the right to be on the team next year. Either from a create long term contract with low guarantees past next year or franchise. It's more wild how many are saying Baker is the reason we didn't win or the reason we weren't "elite".
I agree. That’s why I tag him and see how it goes before giving him true franchise qb money. I’m not saying I don’t want him back next year, I’m saying I don’t want to commit to him beyond next year right now.
I think that’s more than fair, but there are ways to do that without the issues using the tag will/could bring.
This season he's earned the right to be on the team next year. Either from a create long term contract with low guarantees past next year or franchise. It's more wild how many are saying Baker is the reason we didn't win or the reason we weren't "elite".
I agree. That’s why I tag him and see how it goes before giving him true franchise qb money. I’m not saying I don’t want him back next year, I’m saying I don’t want to commit to him beyond next year right now.
I don't think we're too far off. Any deal Baker gets is going to actually be a 2 year commitment at most- essentially be a better, more maneuverable double franchise tag. And if next year is an absolute horror show, then we still draft a QB high and his final guaranteed year he's a bridge QB, which is usually the plan anyway. It may be 3 years or 4 years on the surface but everyone in the room knows those last years only get reach if earned. And usually the plan is to extend again if it they are so earned.
