Baker Mayfield: PAID

[CannonFire]

I don't really care about the number being high. I'm sure people will be freaking out when it first gets announced as some insane overpay. Then eventually the real numbers will come out and it won't be as bad as it looks.

I'm definitely in favor of heavy incentives and a shorter term contract (at least in terms of guarantees). If we do that, sure, let him get some huge number his agent can brag about.

I really think trust in Licht is the most reasonable thing here. Since his first few years where he was learning by making mistakes, he has very rarely given out atrocious value contracts, or let guys get away. I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually.

I hope and expect the same here.

The numbers need to show that we can move on from Mayfield in April, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah, "I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually., and we stunk the whole time,

Since the 2002 season, the only time we were good was when we had Tom Brady. You realize that since 2002, we're 1-3 in the playoffs in seasons where we didn't have the greatest qb of all-time, right?

[Backside]

I don't really care about the number being high. I'm sure people will be freaking out when it first gets announced as some insane overpay. Then eventually the real numbers will come out and it won't be as bad as it looks.

I'm definitely in favor of heavy incentives and a shorter term contract (at least in terms of guarantees). If we do that, sure, let him get some huge number his agent can brag about.

I really think trust in Licht is the most reasonable thing here. Since his first few years where he was learning by making mistakes, he has very rarely given out atrocious value contracts, or let guys get away. I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually.

I hope and expect the same here.

The numbers need to show that we can move on from Mayfield in April, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah, "I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually., and we stunk the whole time,

Since the 2002 season, the only time we were good was when we had Tom Brady. You realize that since 2002, we're 1-3 in the playoffs in seasons where we didn't have the greatest qb of all-time, right?

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

[CannonFire]

The numbers need to show that we can move on from Mayfield in April, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah, "I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually., and we stunk the whole time,

Since the 2002 season, the only time we were good was when we had Tom Brady. You realize that since 2002, we're 1-3 in the playoffs in seasons where we didn't have the greatest qb of all-time, right?

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

9-8 is a good season? You definitely are the type of person this organization is counting on. Mediocre wearing the mask of success is enough for you.

LOL, Licht's tenure needed the GOAT to be successful. If Brady retired or went elsewhere, you realize there's a really good chance, that Licht isn't the GM right now, right? Heading into the 2020 offseason, we were letting Winston walk... were we not? In the draft, Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all went in the top 10... we had pick 14. What's the plan? It's either trade up (meaning future #1's), to get Herbert or Tua AND no Wirfs. It also means we're picking in the top 15 in 2021... with no first round pick. It also means we're probably not re-signing Barrett who would've made bank somewhere else. Or do we take Jordan Love? Sure, we know what he looks like now, after sitting 4 years behind Rodgers... but would he have looked starting Day 1 with Arians?

The only reason people signed and were happy was SOLELY because Brady was here and the team knew they could win and a lot of guys to team friendly deals. NONE of that happens without Brady. ALL of that happens WITH Brady, even if Licht wasn't here. You're kidding yourself if you think it's because of Licht.

[Sdbucs]

77.2, the QB number #20. Out of 41 QBs. Behind Jake Browning, Geno Smith, Russell Wilson to name a few.

Turnover worthy plays - #18. So upper half of QBs making turnover worthy plays (bad)
Pressure to sack - #18. So upper half of QBs taking sacks off pressure (bad)
Batted Throws - #20. League median for batted throws.
Big Time Throws - #20. League median for great throws.

All the PFF data shows that Baker is slightly below average for QB play. In what world is that "quality starter"? You should want, you NEED your QB playing in the top quartile to win anything.

The top quartile QBs this year per PFF:
Josh Allen - Divisional Round
Patrick Mahomes - Superbowl
Lamar Jackson - AFC Championship
Dak Prescott - Wildcard
Matthew Stafford - Wild Card
Brock Purdy - Superbowl
Tua Tagovailoa - Wild Card
Jalen Hurts - Wild Card
Kirk Cousins - Injury
Jared Goff - NFC Championship

The only one to not make playoffs was Kirk, and he was out injured. 9 of the 14 playoff QBs were top quartile, including both Superbowl contenders and all championship contenders.

We need Baker to step it up, we need an elite defense, or we need a new QB. Those are our paths to winning.


The Baker data is also skewed by his playoff performance. He was even worse during the regular season.

Kenny Pickett in 12 games had a 70.6 grade from PFF, and some people think the Steelers should replace him. LOL... and he's making less than $4M this year.

Yeah, every single metric available says that Mayfield is a below average starter. There's not one that says he's worth $30M+.

Only nuance to Pickett is he's in his 3rd season. I wouldn't write off a young QB that quick whereas Baker is in what, year 7?

[Sdbucs]

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

9-8 is a good season? You definitely are the type of person this organization is counting on. Mediocre wearing the mask of success is enough for you.

LOL, Licht's tenure needed the GOAT to be successful. If Brady retired or went elsewhere, you realize there's a really good chance, that Licht isn't the GM right now, right? Heading into the 2020 offseason, we were letting Winston walk... were we not? In the draft, Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all went in the top 10... we had pick 14. What's the plan? It's either trade up (meaning future #1's), to get Herbert or Tua AND no Wirfs. It also means we're picking in the top 15 in 2021... with no first round pick. It also means we're probably not re-signing Barrett who would've made bank somewhere else. Or do we take Jordan Love? Sure, we know what he looks like now, after sitting 4 years behind Rodgers... but would he have looked starting Day 1 with Arians?

The only reason people signed and were happy was SOLELY because Brady was here and the team knew they could win and a lot of guys to team friendly deals. NONE of that happens without Brady. ALL of that happens WITH Brady, even if Licht wasn't here. You're kidding yourself if you think it's because of Licht.

9-8 in the worst division in football.
Only winning vs bottom 1/3rd teams.
Beating an Eagles team that clearly had some sort of "sickness" going on in the locker room.

We were always going to do basically that with Baker, I was saying it when we signed him. Good enough to take us to 7-10 wins and win nothing.

Nothing has changed.

[Backside]

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

9-8 is a good season? You definitely are the type of person this organization is counting on. Mediocre wearing the mask of success is enough for you.

LOL, Licht's tenure needed the GOAT to be successful. If Brady retired or went elsewhere, you realize there's a really good chance, that Licht isn't the GM right now, right? Heading into the 2020 offseason, we were letting Winston walk... were we not? In the draft, Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all went in the top 10... we had pick 14. What's the plan? It's either trade up (meaning future #1's), to get Herbert or Tua AND no Wirfs. It also means we're picking in the top 15 in 2021... with no first round pick. It also means we're probably not re-signing Barrett who would've made bank somewhere else. Or do we take Jordan Love? Sure, we know what he looks like now, after sitting 4 years behind Rodgers... but would he have looked starting Day 1 with Arians?

The only reason people signed and were happy was SOLELY because Brady was here and the team knew they could win and a lot of guys to team friendly deals. NONE of that happens without Brady. ALL of that happens WITH Brady, even if Licht wasn't here. You're kidding yourself if you think it's because of Licht.

Division championships and playoff wins is indeed a good season, yes. Especially relative to expectations heading into the year.

31 teams had a chance to go after the GOAT and two of them did. One of them being the Bucs and Licht. Very easy to say how obvious a move it was now with hindsight but it was anything but at the time. And by the way he had to construct that roster that made Brady want to come. And they were so good that first year that by the time the Super Bowl came along throw any QB behind center and we still hoist the Lombardi.

So you basically want me to knock Licht because he went after the GOAT when basically no other teams did. Had built a roster that attracted the GOAT to come. And solidified a killer Super Bowl winning roster in that critical draft right after landing Brady...

So yea, sorry for not thinking he sucks because that is on his resume.

[CannonFire]

9-8 is a good season? You definitely are the type of person this organization is counting on. Mediocre wearing the mask of success is enough for you.

LOL, Licht's tenure needed the GOAT to be successful. If Brady retired or went elsewhere, you realize there's a really good chance, that Licht isn't the GM right now, right? Heading into the 2020 offseason, we were letting Winston walk... were we not? In the draft, Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all went in the top 10... we had pick 14. What's the plan? It's either trade up (meaning future #1's), to get Herbert or Tua AND no Wirfs. It also means we're picking in the top 15 in 2021... with no first round pick. It also means we're probably not re-signing Barrett who would've made bank somewhere else. Or do we take Jordan Love? Sure, we know what he looks like now, after sitting 4 years behind Rodgers... but would he have looked starting Day 1 with Arians?

The only reason people signed and were happy was SOLELY because Brady was here and the team knew they could win and a lot of guys to team friendly deals. NONE of that happens without Brady. ALL of that happens WITH Brady, even if Licht wasn't here. You're kidding yourself if you think it's because of Licht.

Division championships and playoff wins is indeed a good season, yes. Especially relative to expectations heading into the year.

31 teams had a chance to go after the GOAT and two of them did. One of them being the Bucs and Licht. Very easy to say how obvious a move it was now with hindsight but it was anything but at the time. And by the way he had to construct that roster that made Brady want to come. And they were so good that first year that by the time the Super Bowl came along throw any QB behind center and we still hoist the Lombardi.

So you basically want me to knock Licht because he went after the GOAT when basically no other teams did. Had built a roster that attracted the GOAT to come. And solidified a killer Super Bowl winning roster in that critical draft right after landing Brady...

So yea, sorry for not thinking he sucks because that is on his resume.

I didn't say he sucks... I said he's likely not here if Brady didn't sign. I think he did a pretty good job overall in building a competitive team, he just struck out swinging at 3 pitches way out of the zone when he drafted Winston. The thing is, that's key. If Brady doesn't come here, I think over the last 3 seasons, Licht would've been fired. Not many GM's keep their jobs when they miss the playoffs each of their first 7+ years (assuming he's here for 2020 and 2021). I mean, yeah, we won a Super Bowl... but Licht has a losing record in 10 seasons here.

Come on... he brought in Lovie Smith in 2014 and fired him after 2015. We promoted Koetter, only to fire him 3 years later. He brought in Arians, and the "franchise QB" threw 30 interceptions. If Brady doesn't come here and bail out Licht, this team literally had no direction. Historically, teams in that situation don't keep their GM.

Look, to an extent, on a football teams' message board, we're all homers... but you don't have to be a completely blind homer. You are allowed to be objective. LOL

[CannonFire]

9-8 is a good season? You definitely are the type of person this organization is counting on. Mediocre wearing the mask of success is enough for you.

LOL, Licht's tenure needed the GOAT to be successful. If Brady retired or went elsewhere, you realize there's a really good chance, that Licht isn't the GM right now, right? Heading into the 2020 offseason, we were letting Winston walk... were we not? In the draft, Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all went in the top 10... we had pick 14. What's the plan? It's either trade up (meaning future #1's), to get Herbert or Tua AND no Wirfs. It also means we're picking in the top 15 in 2021... with no first round pick. It also means we're probably not re-signing Barrett who would've made bank somewhere else. Or do we take Jordan Love? Sure, we know what he looks like now, after sitting 4 years behind Rodgers... but would he have looked starting Day 1 with Arians?

The only reason people signed and were happy was SOLELY because Brady was here and the team knew they could win and a lot of guys to team friendly deals. NONE of that happens without Brady. ALL of that happens WITH Brady, even if Licht wasn't here. You're kidding yourself if you think it's because of Licht.

9-8 in the worst division in football.
Only winning vs bottom 1/3rd teams.
Beating an Eagles team that clearly had some sort of "sickness" going on in the locker room.

We were always going to do basically that with Baker, I was saying it when we signed him. Good enough to take us to 7-10 wins and win nothing.

Nothing has changed.

Yup, pretty much.

[CannonFire]

The numbers need to show that we can move on from Mayfield in April, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah, "I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually., and we stunk the whole time,

Since the 2002 season, the only time we were good was when we had Tom Brady. You realize that since 2002, we're 1-3 in the playoffs in seasons where we didn't have the greatest qb of all-time, right?

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

Of course we don't have to go back 20 years... because that proves my point completely, right?

Yeah, let's go back to 2014... from then to 2019, we had 3 head coaches a "franchise QB" throw 30 Int's, the team had 1 winning record, 0 playoff games, and a cumulative 34-62 (0.354), record. I think it's clear that Brady saved Licht's job. Don't you?

[Backside]

Division championships and playoff wins is indeed a good season, yes. Especially relative to expectations heading into the year.

31 teams had a chance to go after the GOAT and two of them did. One of them being the Bucs and Licht. Very easy to say how obvious a move it was now with hindsight but it was anything but at the time. And by the way he had to construct that roster that made Brady want to come. And they were so good that first year that by the time the Super Bowl came along throw any QB behind center and we still hoist the Lombardi.

So you basically want me to knock Licht because he went after the GOAT when basically no other teams did. Had built a roster that attracted the GOAT to come. And solidified a killer Super Bowl winning roster in that critical draft right after landing Brady...

So yea, sorry for not thinking he sucks because that is on his resume.

I didn't say he sucks... I said he's likely not here if Brady didn't sign. I think he did a pretty good job overall in building a competitive team, he just struck out swinging at 3 pitches way out of the zone when he drafted Winston. The thing is, that's key. If Brady doesn't come here, I think over the last 3 seasons, Licht would've been fired. Not many GM's keep their jobs when they miss the playoffs each of their first 7+ years (assuming he's here for 2020 and 2021). I mean, yeah, we won a Super Bowl... but Licht has a losing record in 10 seasons here.

Come on... he brought in Lovie Smith in 2014 and fired him after 2015. We promoted Koetter, only to fire him 3 years later. He brought in Arians, and the "franchise QB" threw 30 interceptions. If Brady doesn't come here and bail out Licht, this team literally had no direction. Historically, teams in that situation don't keep their GM.

Look, to an extent, on a football teams' message board, we're all homers... but you don't have to be a completely blind homer. You are allowed to be objective. LOL

You say he doesn't suck, but then just list every bad move he made and zero of the good ones. I don't think I have any issue being objective.

Everything you're saying seems to revolve around the point that you think he would have been fired already in an alternate universe where he didn't get Brady.. Okay? How far do you want me to take this hypothetical, and why? He went all in after Brady, why aren't you giving him credit for that instead of imagining the scenario where it didn't work out?

He had already started to turn around his draft resume by that point. And had built a Super Bowl roster sans a QB. So I'm not even sure I agree with your hypothetical. Years later, with no Brady, the roster he drafted and constructed is winning divisions and playoff games with a huge dead cap hit, and a QB that is no good according to you. When they were expected to age out and be atrocious.

I don't even know what we are arguing anymore. But I certainly stand by my original statement that I will be confident in what Licht ends up doing with the Baker contract. And that he has earned the benefit of the doubt from me.

[Backside]

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

Of course we don't have to go back 20 years... because that proves my point completely, right?

Yeah, let's go back to 2014... from then to 2019, we had 3 head coaches a "franchise QB" throw 30 Int's, the team had 1 winning record, 0 playoff games, and a cumulative 34-62 (0.354), record. I think it's clear that Brady saved Licht's job. Don't you?

Or because Licht hasn't been here for 20 years so it makes no sense to go back that far? Hurr durr

[CannonFire]

Of course we don't have to go back 20 years... because that proves my point completely, right?

Yeah, let's go back to 2014... from then to 2019, we had 3 head coaches a "franchise QB" throw 30 Int's, the team had 1 winning record, 0 playoff games, and a cumulative 34-62 (0.354), record. I think it's clear that Brady saved Licht's job. Don't you?

Or because Licht hasn't been here for 20 years so it makes no sense to go back that far? Hurr durr

I will say you're right on this. When I read your post and responded, I missed when you said "since Licht", I just read it as the players and the team. That said, I'm dead right on the rest.

Brady saved Licht's job for the reasons I stated. Let's also not pretend that Brady said "I want" and Licht said "ok". It's why I say, Brady saved Licht's job. Brady told Licht what he wanted and Licht did it. I don't see how that's not obvious. You want me to say, "yeah, Licht was Brady's b!tch, and he should be commended for that"? Ok, yes, Licht deserves credit for being Brady's b!tch. Does that make you feel better?

[CannonFire]

I didn't say he sucks... I said he's likely not here if Brady didn't sign. I think he did a pretty good job overall in building a competitive team, he just struck out swinging at 3 pitches way out of the zone when he drafted Winston. The thing is, that's key. If Brady doesn't come here, I think over the last 3 seasons, Licht would've been fired. Not many GM's keep their jobs when they miss the playoffs each of their first 7+ years (assuming he's here for 2020 and 2021). I mean, yeah, we won a Super Bowl... but Licht has a losing record in 10 seasons here.

Come on... he brought in Lovie Smith in 2014 and fired him after 2015. We promoted Koetter, only to fire him 3 years later. He brought in Arians, and the "franchise QB" threw 30 interceptions. If Brady doesn't come here and bail out Licht, this team literally had no direction. Historically, teams in that situation don't keep their GM.

Look, to an extent, on a football teams' message board, we're all homers... but you don't have to be a completely blind homer. You are allowed to be objective. LOL

You say he doesn't suck, but then just list every bad move he made and zero of the good ones. I don't think I have any issue being objective.

Everything you're saying seems to revolve around the point that you think he would have been fired already in an alternate universe where he didn't get Brady.. Okay? How far do you want me to take this hypothetical, and why? He went all in after Brady, why aren't you giving him credit for that instead of imagining the scenario where it didn't work out?

He had already started to turn around his draft resume by that point. And had built a Super Bowl roster sans a QB. So I'm not even sure I agree with your hypothetical. Years later, with no Brady, the roster he drafted and constructed is winning divisions and playoff games with a huge dead cap hit, and a QB that is no good according to you. When they were expected to age out and be atrocious.

I don't even know what we are arguing anymore. But I certainly stand by my original statement that I will be confident in what Licht ends up doing with the Baker contract. And that he has earned the benefit of the doubt from me.

The good ones don't matter for the simple reason that they didn't yield results. Like I said, the team lost 65% of their games in Licht's first 6 years here. They had 0 playoff appearances and 5 losing seasons. PLEASE, give me a list of all the teams who gave their GM that much latitude? If he went 1 more season like that, history tells us he'd have been fired.

[Backside]

Or because Licht hasn't been here for 20 years so it makes no sense to go back that far? Hurr durr

I will say you're right on this. When I read your post and responded, I missed when you said "since Licht", I just read it as the players and the team. That said, I'm dead right on the rest.

Brady saved Licht's job for the reasons I stated. Let's also not pretend that Brady said "I want" and Licht said "ok". It's why I say, Brady saved Licht's job. Brady told Licht what he wanted and Licht did it. I don't see how that's not obvious. You want me to say, "yeah, Licht was Brady's b!tch, and he should be commended for that"? Ok, yes, Licht deserves credit for being Brady's b!tch. Does that make you feel better?

That seems to purposely be looking at it in the absolute least flattering way. But if that's how you choose to see it, that's fine.

The start of Licht's career was a disaster, just so there is no doubt. Since then I think he has been pretty good, and yes that coincided with getting Brady. And everyone will delegate credit differently on that point.

But he is also 1 for 1 in having good seasons after Brady when expected to be horrible. And he gets credit for that from me. I still feel he drafts pretty well and has been good with contracts lately. I'm unsure what is controversial or wrong in anything I'm saying there.

[CannonFire]

I will say you're right on this. When I read your post and responded, I missed when you said "since Licht", I just read it as the players and the team. That said, I'm dead right on the rest.

Brady saved Licht's job for the reasons I stated. Let's also not pretend that Brady said "I want" and Licht said "ok". It's why I say, Brady saved Licht's job. Brady told Licht what he wanted and Licht did it. I don't see how that's not obvious. You want me to say, "yeah, Licht was Brady's b!tch, and he should be commended for that"? Ok, yes, Licht deserves credit for being Brady's b!tch. Does that make you feel better?

That seems to purposely be looking at it in the absolute least flattering way. But if that's how you choose to see it, that's fine.

The start of Licht's career was a disaster, just so there is no doubt. Since then I think he has been pretty good, and yes that coincided with getting Brady. And everyone will delegate credit differently on that point.

But he is also 1 for 1 in having good seasons after Brady when expected to be horrible. And he gets credit for that from me. I still feel he drafts pretty well and has been good with contracts lately. I'm unsure what is controversial or wrong in anything I'm saying there.

It's not that it's controversial, I just think you're making it out to be more than it is. You're giving Licht credit and the benefit of the doubt (when you said "I really think trust in Licht is the most reasonable thing here."), for being mediocre. I just don't understand that rationale, sorry.

[Backside]

That seems to purposely be looking at it in the absolute least flattering way. But if that's how you choose to see it, that's fine.

The start of Licht's career was a disaster, just so there is no doubt. Since then I think he has been pretty good, and yes that coincided with getting Brady. And everyone will delegate credit differently on that point.

But he is also 1 for 1 in having good seasons after Brady when expected to be horrible. And he gets credit for that from me. I still feel he drafts pretty well and has been good with contracts lately. I'm unsure what is controversial or wrong in anything I'm saying there.

It's not that it's controversial, I just think you're making it out to be more than it is. You're giving Licht credit and the benefit of the doubt (when you said "I really think trust in Licht is the most reasonable thing here."), for being mediocre. I just don't understand that rationale, sorry.

I get your point. But even if he sucked and we all knew it. I think you could argue that just trusting the one of 32 people who have been hired to run NFL teams is more reasonable than putting faith in random fan ideas.

Maybe whatever happens blows up spectacularly, it is very possible. But me saying I think it's most reasonable to just trust Licht was kind of just in lieu of "Here's a 5000 word post about our situation and exactly what I would do if it were me."

Just kind of accepting that we are at the mercy of the front office. But also that they have so much more information about every single thing than we could never hope to have. And I think they've been decent at this lately, so hopefully it ends up working out.

I've now written a 5000 word essay across a bunch of different replies anyway though. So joke is on me.

[GreatTimes]

We will see just how much interest other teams have in Baker Mayfield starting next Monday at 12:00 PM.

[Onthebrink]

Baker Mayfield is a bottom tier starter in the NFL. In baseball terms, that he would be termed a "Replacement Level Player" (RLP). You don't pay those types of players a lot of money. Anyone else who is a RLP will be able to come into Tampa and do what Mayfield can do. Mayfield took a lesser contract to be guaranteed a chance to start. I put a bottom tier RLP starting QB at around $12M AAV. That's what Mayfield should get. I'm even ok with a bit more for a "nice to have you back gesture", at a 3 yr / $45M deal. Anything more than that, is an overpay. A deal like Jones', is galactically stupid and if Licht even entertains that idea, the Glazer's should fire him on the spot.

There are a lot more replacement level baseball players out there than there are starting caliber NFL quarterbacks. Terrible analogy.

A better one would be a mid-tier #1 ACE level pitcher. One of the top 15 best pitchers in the game. Those guys make more to throw an inning than most people make in a year.

.
Your analogy is just as bad. There are about 4 starters on each team give or take teams that use openers. That would be 120 pitchers on the low end. If there were 120 starting QBs then I highly doubt that Baker would make the top 15. Baker would be a number 2 starter and could be a number 1 on a team with weak starting pitching. Also your comment is just not relevant. There are 2 non-sequiturs. How much a pitcher gets paid is not relevant. The fact that there are more replacement level baseball players is not relevant either. You did not address what they said. Their point was that Baker should not get a 45 million dollar deal.

[Grahamburn]

There are a lot more replacement level baseball players out there than there are starting caliber NFL quarterbacks. Terrible analogy.

A better one would be a mid-tier #1 ACE level pitcher. One of the top 15 best pitchers in the game. Those guys make more to throw an inning than most people make in a year.

.
Your analogy is just as bad. There are about 4 starters on each team give or take teams that use openers. That would be 120 pitchers on the low end. If there were 120 starting QBs then I highly doubt that Baker would make the top 15. Baker would be a number 2 starter and could be a number 1 on a team with weak starting pitching. Also your comment is just not relevant. There are 2 non-sequiturs. How much a pitcher gets paid is not relevant. The fact that there are more replacement level baseball players is not relevant either. You did not address what they said. Their point was that Baker should not get a 45 million dollar deal.

I know it’s not relevant. I responded to a bad baseball analogy with a good one. Did you even read what I wrote? Maybe you don’t know anything about baseball.

There aren’t 120 guys that can do what Baker can do. That’s the entire point. When you’re one of 15-20 guys in the whole world that can do something at an elite athletic level you’re going to get paid to do it.

[Doctor]

I don't really care about the number being high. I'm sure people will be freaking out when it first gets announced as some insane overpay. Then eventually the real numbers will come out and it won't be as bad as it looks.

I'm definitely in favor of heavy incentives and a shorter term contract (at least in terms of guarantees). If we do that, sure, let him get some huge number his agent can brag about.

I really think trust in Licht is the most reasonable thing here. Since his first few years where he was learning by making mistakes, he has very rarely given out atrocious value contracts, or let guys get away. I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually.

I hope and expect the same here.

The numbers need to show that we can move on from Mayfield in April, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah, "I feel like every time we bring back one of our own both sides always seem pretty pleased with the deal eventually., and we stunk the whole time,

Since the 2002 season, the only time we were good was when we had Tom Brady. You realize that since 2002, we're 1-3 in the playoffs in seasons where we didn't have the greatest qb of all-time, right?

You realize you can do the same thing for 2002 since 1980.

We're a historically bad team. We get it. That will always be a thing.

With that said we've broken out of that pattern twice to great success. Currently we're 6-3 in the playoffs under this GM's reign. We're chasing a 4th straight division title and 5th straight playoff year. It's a good era.

If Liam-Baker are legit, there's a window there.

[CannonFire]

It's not that it's controversial, I just think you're making it out to be more than it is. You're giving Licht credit and the benefit of the doubt (when you said "I really think trust in Licht is the most reasonable thing here."), for being mediocre. I just don't understand that rationale, sorry.

I get your point. But even if he sucked and we all knew it. I think you could argue that just trusting the one of 32 people who have been hired to run NFL teams is more reasonable than putting faith in random fan ideas.

Maybe whatever happens blows up spectacularly, it is very possible. But me saying I think it's most reasonable to just trust Licht was kind of just in lieu of "Here's a 5000 word post about our situation and exactly what I would do if it were me."

Just kind of accepting that we are at the mercy of the front office. But also that they have so much more information about every single thing than we could never hope to have. And I think they've been decent at this lately, so hopefully it ends up working out.

I've now written a 5000 word essay across a bunch of different replies anyway though. So joke is on me.

I think this is fair.... though I don't think historically this flies if people include Mark Dominic. I truly believe that everyone on this board could've done a better job than he did.

[Phantom]

Look like Mayfield to test free agency.

[Navybuc]

All part of a game. I think he’ll re-sign with Bucs before FA. If he does test FA, he still will come back to TB. There’s about a 5% chance he plays somewhere else.

[Doctor]

I never thought "he drafted a guy who threw 30 ints" would ever be repeated as a valid reason to fire one of the best GMs in football.

[Bootz]

I never thought "he drafted a guy who threw 30 ints" would ever be repeated as a valid reason to fire one of the best luckiest GMs in football.

FIFY.

[GreatTimes]

Look like Mayfield to test free agency.

The negotiating period starts Monday at 12:00 PM. How long will Baker be sitting beside his phone waiting for it to ring with an offer from another team?

[Bootz]

Look like Mayfield to test free agency.

The negotiating period starts Monday at 12:00 PM. How long will Baker be sitting beside his phone waiting for it to ring with an offer from another team?

If last year is any indication, he won't have to wait long at all.

[Buc2]

I don't really see a need to go back more than two decades. Go back to the start of Licht's tenure at most. The team that has 'stunk the whole time' has the longest current playoff streak in the NFC and a Super Bowl in that timeframe. And is, in fact, coming off a good season and a playoff win, without the GOAT QB. All these things you know, but seem to ignore them when trying to make your points.

9-8 is a good season? You definitely are the type of person this organization is counting on. Mediocre wearing the mask of success is enough for you.

LOL, Licht's tenure needed the GOAT to be successful. If Brady retired or went elsewhere, you realize there's a really good chance, that Licht isn't the GM right now, right? Heading into the 2020 offseason, we were letting Winston walk... were we not? In the draft, Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all went in the top 10... we had pick 14. What's the plan? It's either trade up (meaning future #1's), to get Herbert or Tua AND no Wirfs. It also means we're picking in the top 15 in 2021... with no first round pick. It also means we're probably not re-signing Barrett who would've made bank somewhere else. Or do we take Jordan Love? Sure, we know what he looks like now, after sitting 4 years behind Rodgers... but would he have looked starting Day 1 with Arians?

The only reason people signed and were happy was SOLELY because Brady was here and the team knew they could win and a lot of guys to team friendly deals. NONE of that happens without Brady. ALL of that happens WITH Brady, even if Licht wasn't here. You're kidding yourself if you think it's because of Licht.

My god, man. Why are you even a Bucs fan? lol

[Selmon Rules]

@Buc2 I'm here for the decades of futility and despair

[Buc2]

@Buc2 I'm here for the decades of futility and despair

As a fan since ‘76, I can say the same. Lol

[mdb1958]

I'm here for overcoming the decades of futility and despair

[Babeinbucland]

I am here waiting for what is coming next fall.

[GreatTimes]

Just rea an article that stated that the writer who has sources with both the Vikings and the Falcons have no interest in Mayfield. Now you have to take everything that is coming out from teams with a grain of salt because it is lying season. Nevertheless, if true, that means 2 teams with needs for a QB don't want Mayfield.

[Navybuc]

Just rea an article that stated that the writer who has sources with both the Vikings and the Falcons have no interest in Mayfield. Now you have to take everything that is coming out from teams with a grain of salt because it is lying season. Nevertheless, if true, that means 2 teams with needs for a QB don't want Mayfield.

As I’ve said, no chance Baker signs with anyone else but Tampa. Which I’m not sure is a good thing. Time will tell.

[Grahamburn]

Licht is playing this perfectly. As usual.