Didn’t expect we’d have to do this but… OC options?

[kaimaru]

I know nothing about Randle El’s history other than seeing him in Madden. I hope it works out if they go that route.

Randle El was a great returner, i remember several returns for touchdowns when he was a Steeler

[Miller4Prez64]

It’s a hard position to evaluate when it’s someone who doesn’t have a track record of doing the job. Play sequencing, play design, scheming. It’s a lot of concrete ideas mixed with abstract thinking and the ability to detect patterns and employ game theory. A lot of it is study and knowing stuff. A lot is innate and hard to determine until you’re doing the damn thing.

I know nothing about Randle El’s history other than seeing him in Madden. I hope it works out if they go that route.

Two nuggets about him:

- He won a Superbowl ring here in Tampa as WR coach under Bruce Arians, and spent two years here, so he is familiar with core members of our offense such as Mike Evans and Chris Godwin and Tristan Wirfs and so forth.
- He finished sixth in Heisman voting at Indiana as a quarterback. So while he made his professional bones as a receiver, he has practical experience as a QB.

I like Randel El, at least on paper. He has history with our roster, he was raised on no-riskit no-biscuit, he has spent the last few years being coordinated by one of the better young minds in football, and the work that he's done with Amon-Ra St Brown is self-explanatory.

Could do a lot worse.

Bingo. I won’t pretend to know if he has what it takes to call an offense or not when he hasn’t done it, but everyone has to start somewhere and his background here plus work with great staff in Detroit makes him a very interesting hire on paper.

[Phantom]

Ben Johnson clone?

Tanner Engstrand enters his fourth season with the Lions in 2023 and his first as the passing game coordinator.
In 2022, Engstrand oversaw the team's tight ends in addition to elevated responsibilities in the team's passing game. Detroit's tight ends combined for 12 touchdown receptions on the season, establishing a new single-season franchise record. The Lions also had three different tight ends produce a multi-touchdown game in 2022, becoming the first team in NFL history to do so.

https://www.detroitlions.com/team/coach ... -engstrand

It’s a hard position to evaluate when it’s someone who doesn’t have a track record of doing the job. Play sequencing, play design, scheming. It’s a lot of concrete ideas mixed with abstract thinking and the ability to detect patterns and employ game theory. A lot of it is study and knowing stuff. A lot is innate and hard to determine until you’re doing the damn thing.

I know nothing about Randle El’s history other than seeing him in Madden. I hope it works out if they go that route.

Two nuggets about him:

- He won a Superbowl ring here in Tampa as WR coach under Bruce Arians, and spent two years here, so he is familiar with core members of our offense such as Mike Evans and Chris Godwin and Tristan Wirfs and so forth.
- He finished sixth in Heisman voting at Indiana as a quarterback. So while he made his professional bones as a receiver, he has practical experience as a QB.

I like Randel El, at least on paper. He has history with our roster, he was raised on no-riskit no-biscuit, he has spent the last few years being coordinated by one of the better young minds in football, and the work that he's done with Amon-Ra St Brown is self-explanatory.

Could do a lot worse.

For more info https://www.detroitlions.com/team/coach ... -randle-el

[Miller4Prez64]

From what I read, Engstrand backed out of consideration for the Patriots’ OC gig under the assumption that Ben Johnson was going to get a HC gig and he was the favorite for a promotion in Detroit. BJ staying makes him an interesting candidate now.

[Grahamburn]

It definitely feels like we have a little more positive interest from higher end candidates.

[Miller4Prez64]

Jerrod Johnson just announced he is staying in Houston.

[Bootz]

Jerrod Johnson just announced he is staying in Houston.

Yep. He and Bobby Slowik signed contract extensions.

[Bootz]

[Snake]

Oh god not Brian Johnson

[Bootz]

Oh god not Brian Johnson

But but but but he worked with Trask in college......

[Deja Entendu]

I wonder if Johnson would be in play as QB coach, if we went w Thad. Not like he has a job currently.

[Jonny]

From what I read, Engstrand backed out of consideration for the Patriots’ OC gig under the assumption that Ben Johnson was going to get a HC gig and he was the favorite for a promotion in Detroit. BJ staying makes him an interesting candidate now.

If the Lions organization considers Engstrand to be good enough to become their OC, he would definitely be a damn good candidate for the Bucs to consider.

[reagan SMASH]

Dumb questions. Thanks for humoring me.

What happens to the playbook when an OC leaves? Am I correct in assuming many/most/all of those plays go with him and it gets replaced by a whole new offensive playbook brought in by the new OC? And who would primarily make the offensive playbook for Carolina, Canales (since he was just an OC) or his new OC?

[Cheb]

Dumb questions. Thanks for humoring me.

What happens to the playbook when an OC leaves? Am I correct in assuming many/most/all of those plays go with him and it gets replaced by a whole new offensive playbook brought in by the new OC? And who would primarily make the offensive playbook for Carolina, Canales (since he was just an OC) or his new OC?

While there's alot of carryover between playbooks as far as formations and concepts and counters to specific defensive calls, different plays can be called different things between coordinators. Similarly, a wooden thing with four legs and a flat top that holds your food while you're eating may be called a mesa or a tableau or a tavolo or a table, but they're all referencing the same thing. A coordinator having consistency in the "language" of the plays he's calling isn't to be underestimated. Any coordinator coming from the same family of languages will likely use the same or at least very similar terms.

In regards to us right now, if we hire Thaddeus Lewis as our OC, he's spent the last year in our language, so there would probably be alot of carryover between the Canales offense and the one he would implement, though there may be different emphases in regards to what he wants to do most. A new OC bringing in a new offense, we will probably be learning a new set of vocabulary.

Can we use Cannales' stuff right now? Of course we could. The playbook is still available to the team. If we keep Lewis, I imagine we keep most if not all of his stuff. If we go a different direction, I imagine we scrap most of it.

In regards to Carolina and building their offense, I imagine that Cannales is going to basically copy/paste his Bucs' offensive content into a new powerpoint and change the logo at the top to a Panther. Given how close him and Brad Idzik are, their contributions to their offensive system is going be so collaborative that making a distinction between who did what is strictly a theoretical exercise.

[reagan SMASH]

While there's alot of carryover between playbooks as far as formations and concepts and counters to specific defensive calls, different plays can be called different things between coordinators. Similarly, a wooden thing with four legs and a flat top that holds your food while you're eating may be called a mesa or a tableau or a tavolo or a table, but they're all referencing the same thing. A coordinator having consistency in the "language" of the plays he's calling isn't to be underestimated. Any coordinator coming from the same family of languages will likely use the same or at least very similar terms.

In regards to us right now, if we hire Thaddeus Lewis as our OC, he's spent the last year in our language, so there would probably be alot of carryover between the Canales offense and the one he would implement, though there may be different emphases in regards to what he wants to do most. A new OC bringing in a new offense, we will probably be learning a new set of vocabulary.

Can we use Cannales' stuff right now? Of course we could. The playbook is still available to the team. If we keep Lewis, I imagine we keep most if not all of his stuff. If we go a different direction, I imagine we scrap most of it.

In regards to Carolina and building their offense, I imagine that Cannales is going to basically copy/paste his Bucs' offensive content into a new powerpoint and change the logo at the top to a Panther. Given how close him and Brad Idzik are, their contributions to their offensive system is going be so collaborative that making a distinction between who did what is strictly a theoretical exercise.

Thank you! That was very helpful, I appreciate the thought you put into the response!

[Dcbucsfan]

Looks like we are interviewing Thad Lewis and looking in-house.

[Babeinbucland]

Dumb questions. Thanks for humoring me.

What happens to the playbook when an OC leaves? Am I correct in assuming many/most/all of those plays go with him and it gets replaced by a whole new offensive playbook brought in by the new OC? And who would primarily make the offensive playbook for Carolina, Canales (since he was just an OC) or his new OC?

While there's alot of carryover between playbooks as far as formations and concepts and counters to specific defensive calls, different plays can be called different things between coordinators. Similarly, a wooden thing with four legs and a flat top that holds your food while you're eating may be called a mesa or a tableau or a tavolo or a table, but they're all referencing the same thing. A coordinator having consistency in the "language" of the plays he's calling isn't to be underestimated. Any coordinator coming from the same family of languages will likely use the same or at least very similar terms.

In regards to us right now, if we hire Thaddeus Lewis as our OC, he's spent the last year in our language, so there would probably be alot of carryover between the Canales offense and the one he would implement, though there may be different emphases in regards to what he wants to do most. A new OC bringing in a new offense, we will probably be learning a new set of vocabulary.

Can we use Cannales' stuff right now? Of course we could. The playbook is still available to the team. If we keep Lewis, I imagine we keep most if not all of his stuff. If we go a different direction, I imagine we scrap most of it.

In regards to Carolina and building their offense, I imagine that Cannales is going to basically copy/paste his Bucs' offensive content into a new powerpoint and change the logo at the top to a Panther. Given how close him and Brad Idzik are, their contributions to their offensive system is going be so collaborative that making a distinction between who did what is strictly a theoretical exercise.

And if they do that doesn’t it give us an advantage twice a year when we play them?

[Babeinbucland]

Looks like we are interviewing Thad Lewis and looking in-house.

I really have a feeling our new OC will be Thad Lewis- I think the Buc’s don’t want to lose him and I think this is the only way they keep him.

[Phantom]

Looks like we are interviewing Thad Lewis and looking in-house.

I really have a feeling our new OC will be Thad Lewis- I think the Buc’s don’t want to lose him and I think this is the only way they keep him.

The Bucs are probably going to hire Thad Lewis as offensive coordinator.

[Cheb]

While there's alot of carryover between playbooks as far as formations and concepts and counters to specific defensive calls, different plays can be called different things between coordinators. Similarly, a wooden thing with four legs and a flat top that holds your food while you're eating may be called a mesa or a tableau or a tavolo or a table, but they're all referencing the same thing. A coordinator having consistency in the "language" of the plays he's calling isn't to be underestimated. Any coordinator coming from the same family of languages will likely use the same or at least very similar terms.

In regards to us right now, if we hire Thaddeus Lewis as our OC, he's spent the last year in our language, so there would probably be alot of carryover between the Canales offense and the one he would implement, though there may be different emphases in regards to what he wants to do most. A new OC bringing in a new offense, we will probably be learning a new set of vocabulary.

Can we use Cannales' stuff right now? Of course we could. The playbook is still available to the team. If we keep Lewis, I imagine we keep most if not all of his stuff. If we go a different direction, I imagine we scrap most of it.

In regards to Carolina and building their offense, I imagine that Cannales is going to basically copy/paste his Bucs' offensive content into a new powerpoint and change the logo at the top to a Panther. Given how close him and Brad Idzik are, their contributions to their offensive system is going be so collaborative that making a distinction between who did what is strictly a theoretical exercise.

And if they do that doesn’t it give us an advantage twice a year when we play them?

If Cannales doesn't change things up, absolutely. But also, if we don't change up our calls a bit, the Panthers would have the same advantage.

One of the big reasons we clapped the Raider's cheeks in our first Superbowl win is that their head coach Callahan reportedly changed NOTHING from Gruden's offense that he had with the Raiders the previous season. We knew all their calls and checks, and it's a big reason we jumped out to a 34-3 lead.

Speaking more personally, I've had former coaches of mine go to rival schools and they frequently bring snippets of my systems there if not copy them wholecloth, and it is a constant annoyance having to tweak my stuff so I don't get hosed on gamedays.

[Babeinbucland]

And if they do that doesn’t it give us an advantage twice a year when we play them?

If Cannales doesn't change things up, absolutely. But also, if we don't change up our calls a bit, the Panthers would have the same advantage.

One of the big reasons we clapped the Raider's cheeks in our first Superbowl win is that their head coach Callahan reportedly changed NOTHING from Gruden's offense that he had with the Raiders the previous season. We knew all their calls and checks, and it's a big reason we jumped out to a 34-3 lead.

Speaking more personally, I've had former coaches of mine go to rival schools and they frequently bring snippets of my systems there if not copy them wholecloth, and it is a constant annoyance having to tweak my stuff so I don't get hosed on gamedays.

The bolded part is exactly what I was thinking of when I asked that question. At the beginning of that football season I posted that I bet this Super Bowl would be the Bucs versus the Raiders because of the above and it would be such good matchup for the NFL. This was long before all the conspiracy theories. lol

[kaimaru]

I would hate that hire. If the Glazers loved Canales's offense so much, they would have pulled a Koetter here. Also, you don't promote someone just because you're afraid of losing them.

He has been a coach only 3 years, all of them with the Bucs. Can he put together almost an entire coaching staff? Who could he possibly know who wouldn't just be fired coaches left over from Arians? If anything, I think that is probably the reason they waited so long to interview him. They probably said to confirm a list of people who are willing to work on your staff, and I doubt that he had a long list. Hiring him would smell of desperation as no one else wanted the job

[Bootz]

[Dcbucsfan]

Lots of McVay tree potential hires being interviewed. Looks like Bucs might have a plan or signal that Baker is ready to sign a deal with us. Let’s say that happens, does Mike come back too? LVD?

[Babeinbucland]

CAPTAIN FEAR HIRED AS THE MASCOT FOR THE CAROLINA PANTHERS!

[BucsNBills]

Hopefully he stays on for at least two years.

[Grahamburn]

Lots of McVay tree potential hires being interviewed. Looks like Bucs might have a plan or signal that Baker is ready to sign a deal with us. Let’s say that happens, does Mike come back too? LVD?

Lots?

I don’t think all these things are really that connected.

Especially LaVonte.

[Bootz]

[BuccaNOLEer]

Both of them have worked with Baker

[13F11B]

Dumb questions. Thanks for humoring me.

What happens to the playbook when an OC leaves? Am I correct in assuming many/most/all of those plays go with him and it gets replaced by a whole new offensive playbook brought in by the new OC? And who would primarily make the offensive playbook for Carolina, Canales (since he was just an OC) or his new OC?

While there's alot of carryover between playbooks as far as formations and concepts and counters to specific defensive calls, different plays can be called different things between coordinators. Similarly, a wooden thing with four legs and a flat top that holds your food while you're eating may be called a mesa or a tableau or a tavolo or a table, but they're all referencing the same thing. A coordinator having consistency in the "language" of the plays he's calling isn't to be underestimated. Any coordinator coming from the same family of languages will likely use the same or at least very similar terms.

In regards to us right now, if we hire Thaddeus Lewis as our OC, he's spent the last year in our language, so there would probably be alot of carryover between the Canales offense and the one he would implement, though there may be different emphases in regards to what he wants to do most. A new OC bringing in a new offense, we will probably be learning a new set of vocabulary.

Can we use Cannales' stuff right now? Of course we could. The playbook is still available to the team. If we keep Lewis, I imagine we keep most if not all of his stuff. If we go a different direction, I imagine we scrap most of it.

In regards to Carolina and building their offense, I imagine that Cannales is going to basically copy/paste his Bucs' offensive content into a new powerpoint and change the logo at the top to a Panther. Given how close him and Brad Idzik are, their contributions to their offensive system is going be so collaborative that making a distinction between who did what is strictly a theoretical exercise.

One would hope that we do not keep Cannales stuff.. I don't want to be like the 2002 Raiders and Bill Callahan.

[Snake]

Bucs turning over every stone in this search

[Bootz]

Van Pelt was hired by the Patriots.

[Doctor]

Okay, I have a new #1.

[Phantom]

Okay, I have a new #1.

What? Why?

Just because he worked with Baker Mayfield?

[real bucs fan]

If we’re promoting Thad Lewis… let’s hope Baker is a believer in Thad.

I just sense Thad is still too green, you don’t want to rush these things for your team or the coaches sake.

Not feeling too great how things have gone ever since that missed TO by Bowles. Kinda seems this offseason is snowballing into a full blown disaster….

If we're honest about it, we thought Canales was too green also

Seems to have worked out ok by the end of the season

If Canales was Green, Thad is waaay green. Canales spent 13 years as position coach in Seattle, Thad’s spent what 2 years as one?