Welcome Liam Coen- TB’s new OC coach

[Babeinbucland]

Pretty sure if anything Baker the gf that got cheated on...

Again, why are you so set on punishing Baker for Cleveland and Carolina being trash?

You're 100% correct, he deserves none of the blame for completely sucking for 50% of his NFL career.
You receive today's "Prisoner of the Moment" award.

You're saying Cleveland sucked. They sucked in 2018 when Baker had a good rookie year? They sucked in 2020 when Baker had a good third year?
Which is it?
If Baker doesn't get credit for being bad in Cleveland, he sure as shit shouldn't get credit for being good, either.

When you contextualized why, injury, poor coaching, think I’m a locker room we don’t know about, they contribute. To just take stats and define his career with that, Create a best and incomplete picture worse of false picture

[Grahamburn]

Guys have good years. Guys have bad years. Guys have average years. Where are the QB's who are 100% consistent all of the time? I think there's one of them. We can't have him.

A 50/50 QB like Baker on our roster will get you 7 to 10 wins and no superbowl

We need better QB play or a much more talented defense

More talented and efficient defense is easier to find than "50/50" QB play.

Here's a list of the 1st round QBs from 2010-2020:

Cam Newton*
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Andrew Luck*
RG3
Ryan Tannehill*
Brandon Weeden
EJ Manuel
Blake Bortles
Jonny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff*
Carson Wentz
Paxton Lynch
Mitch Trubisky
Patrick Mahomes*
Deshaun Watson*
Baker Mayfield*
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen*
Josh Rosen
Lamar Jackson*
Kylar Murray*
Daniel Jones*
Dwayne Haskins
Joe Burrow*
Tua Tagovailoa*
Justin Herbert*
Jordan Love*

Jury is still out on guys drafted since 2021. Being generous I starred the guys that are "50/50" in my mind. 15 of 32. If anything even being a "50/50" QB is quite rare.

[Doctor]

Pretty sure if anything Baker the gf that got cheated on...

Again, why are you so set on punishing Baker for Cleveland and Carolina being trash?

You're 100% correct, he deserves none of the blame for completely sucking for 50% of his NFL career.
You receive today's "Prisoner of the Moment" award.

You're saying Cleveland sucked. They sucked in 2018 when Baker had a good rookie year? They sucked in 2020 when Baker had a good third year?
Which is it?
If Baker doesn't get credit for being bad in Cleveland, he sure as shit shouldn't get credit for being good, either.

Cleveland sucks for ditching a beloved QB who got them a playoff win because he tore his fucking labrum. That's a dick move. All because they were feeling themselves and got antsy about their window. As karma would have it Baker would win a playoff game again before them.

Think about that, those 50% of him sucking are what- 1) his sophomore slump, 2) torn labrum, 3) panthers. Seriously, these are his crimes?

He's not allowed a slump or an injury? Meanwhile outside of that he's a 4k, 30:10 QB... and that's a FLOOR. That's not even a ceiling. That's not even, "Oh yeah, these guys have played together for years and have such a good chemistry" sort of thing yet. Imagine if he does get there. Imagine year 3 of Baker Evans, that's year 2 of Coen too. 5k 40TDs?

[Grahamburn]

You're 100% correct, he deserves none of the blame for completely sucking for 50% of his NFL career.
You receive today's "Prisoner of the Moment" award.

You're saying Cleveland sucked. They sucked in 2018 when Baker had a good rookie year? They sucked in 2020 when Baker had a good third year?
Which is it?
If Baker doesn't get credit for being bad in Cleveland, he sure as shit shouldn't get credit for being good, either.

Cleveland sucks for ditching a beloved QB who got them a playoff win because he tore his fucking labrum. That's a dick move. All because they were feeling themselves and got antsy about their window. As karma would have it Baker would win a playoff game again before them.

Think about that, those 50% of him sucking are what- 1) his sophomore slump, 2) torn labrum, 3) panthers. Seriously, these are his crimes?

He's not allowed a slump or an injury? Meanwhile outside of that he's a 4k, 30:10 QB... and that's a FLOOR. That's not even a ceiling. That's not even, "Oh yeah, these guys have played together for years and have such a good chemistry" sort of thing yet. Imagine if he does get there. Imagine year 3 of Baker Evans, that's year 2 of Coen too. 5k 40TDs?

Ironic isn't it? The Cleveland front office felt the same way about Baker as some of these Bucs fans do. "We'll never win with him. We need a franchise QB!" Oops.

[Doctor]

And Cleveland just entered the fun $60M/yr part of his contract too. Now they'll have to throw good money after bad just to stay afloat. The football gods are just.

[Snake]

The serial rapist being a bust is really an all-time great blunder.

[acmillis]

You're 100% correct, he deserves none of the blame for completely sucking for 50% of his NFL career.
You receive today's "Prisoner of the Moment" award.

You're saying Cleveland sucked. They sucked in 2018 when Baker had a good rookie year? They sucked in 2020 when Baker had a good third year?
Which is it?
If Baker doesn't get credit for being bad in Cleveland, he sure as shit shouldn't get credit for being good, either.

Cleveland sucks for ditching a beloved QB who got them a playoff win because he tore his fucking labrum. That's a dick move. All because they were feeling themselves and got antsy about their window. As karma would have it Baker would win a playoff game again before them.

Think about that, those 50% of him sucking are what- 1) his sophomore slump, 2) torn labrum, 3) panthers. Seriously, these are his crimes?

He's not allowed a slump or an injury? Meanwhile outside of that he's a 4k, 30:10 QB... and that's a FLOOR. That's not even a ceiling. That's not even, "Oh yeah, these guys have played together for years and have such a good chemistry" sort of thing yet. Imagine if he does get there. Imagine year 3 of Baker Evans, that's year 2 of Coen too. 5k 40TDs?

Let us focus on the bolded part, okay?
1. Sophomore slump? Joe Burrow led his team to a SB in his second season. Josh Freeman had his best season ever in his sophomore season. You're claiming it is okay for a professional QB who has sky high expectations to regress rather than grow because, "well, like, it's called the sophomore slump." LOLWUT
2. Torn Labrum IN HIS NON-THROWING SHOULDER? GTFO
3. Panthers. The reason he was on several teams in one season is because multiple teams identified that he wasn't good enough to be a franchise QB.

[Grahamburn]

Cleveland sucks for ditching a beloved QB who got them a playoff win because he tore his fucking labrum. That's a dick move. All because they were feeling themselves and got antsy about their window. As karma would have it Baker would win a playoff game again before them.

Think about that, those 50% of him sucking are what- 1) his sophomore slump, 2) torn labrum, 3) panthers. Seriously, these are his crimes?

He's not allowed a slump or an injury? Meanwhile outside of that he's a 4k, 30:10 QB... and that's a FLOOR. That's not even a ceiling. That's not even, "Oh yeah, these guys have played together for years and have such a good chemistry" sort of thing yet. Imagine if he does get there. Imagine year 3 of Baker Evans, that's year 2 of Coen too. 5k 40TDs?

Let us focus on the bolded part, okay?
1. Sophomore slump? Joe Burrow led his team to a SB in his second season. Josh Freeman had his best season ever in his sophomore season. You're claiming it is okay for a professional QB who has sky high expectations to regress rather than grow because, "well, like, it's called the sophomore slump." LOLWUT
2. Torn Labrum IN HIS NON-THROWING SHOULDER? GTFO
3. Panthers. The reason he was on several teams in one season is because multiple teams identified that he wasn't good enough to be a franchise QB.

Multiple teams appear to be wrong. Just like the were with Tom Brady. Or as the Licht bashers like to suggest we were his only suitors so JL got lucky.

Seems to me JL keeps hitting QB off the scrap heap dingers.

[Bootz]

And Cleveland just entered the fun $60M/yr part of his contract too. Now they'll have to throw good money after bad just to stay afloat. The football gods are just.

They'll do it and somehow get by. Bucs fans should pay attention.

[Grahamburn]

I think $100M is a lot and probably too much. I've been leaning into Daniel Jones as a contract comp, but we have to remember he was drafted by the Giants, and then they declined his 5th year option. I think that was a big part in that negotiation. He stuck it to them a bit.

I'm not sure Baker necessarily wants to do that to us, but I keep thinking that's what his agent is going to push for. Somewhere in between Geno and Jones makes sense thought. Bu, Baker's walk year numbers were better than Jones' were.

Yup, Baker had (arguably) his best NFL season when it mattered most (to him financially). That is why I'd transition tag him. It's cheaper than the franchise tag, and nobody is giving us two 1st round picks for him. We have the cap to make it happen AND STILL sign everybody we want to.

And I realize you don't expect him to have another good season, but what if he does? That asking price then skyrockets to $200M guaranteed.

[acmillis]

Yup, Baker had (arguably) his best NFL season when it mattered most (to him financially). That is why I'd transition tag him. It's cheaper than the franchise tag, and nobody is giving us two 1st round picks for him. We have the cap to make it happen AND STILL sign everybody we want to.

And I realize you don't expect him to have another good season, but what if he does? That asking price then skyrockets to $200M guaranteed.

Cool, that's the gamble I'm willing to take. I'd love for him to prove me wrong and shut me up. If he does, as I've said before, pay him. But as of right now, history suggests that he'll have a bad year and we'll have wasted 10s-100s of millions of dollars on a qb who does this yoyo game his entire career.

[Grahamburn]

And I realize you don't expect him to have another good season, but what if he does? That asking price then skyrockets to $200M guaranteed.

Cool, that's the gamble I'm willing to take. I'd love for him to prove me wrong and shut me up. If he does, as I've said before, pay him. But as of right now, history suggests that he'll have a bad year and we'll have wasted 10s-100s of millions of dollars on a qb who does this yoyo game his entire career.

Fair enough, but that doesn't really make any sense. If you don't expect him to be capable of having back to back seasons there would be no reason to franchise/transition tag him in the first place. Just let him walk.

The tag is a half measure.

[mdb1958]

The least amount to make it happen will always be the best option - mdb.

[acmillis]

Cool, that's the gamble I'm willing to take. I'd love for him to prove me wrong and shut me up. If he does, as I've said before, pay him. But as of right now, history suggests that he'll have a bad year and we'll have wasted 10s-100s of millions of dollars on a qb who does this yoyo game his entire career.

Fair enough, but that doesn't really make any sense. If you don't expect him to be capable of having back to back seasons there would be no reason to franchise/transition tag him in the first place. Just let him walk.

The tag is a half measure.

I agree with this principle. I'm of the belief that he'll never live up to any realistic contract we give him, so I'd let him walk.
Some folks, understandably, are excited about what he's done for this franchise, locker room, etc., in 2023, and I like what he's done so far as well. However, before I pay him like a franchise QB is paid, I want more than one year of that good play. He'll always be the best teammate anybody could ever ask for, so the only thing in question, IMO, is his on-field play. Give me one more year of 2023 Baker, and pay him. Other than that, I want no commitment beyond 2024 for Baker, and luckily for this team, there is an option that allows us to give him a one year deal that won't preclude us from doing anything else we want to as it pertains to signing players.

[Doctor]

Burrow went to a SB year 2, so yeah, fuck Baker. That logic totally makes sense. So you're allowed to have down years, but not really.

I'm sorry, but with the signing of Liam Coen, I'm as hyped as ever. Doubly so on Baker being a franchise QB. This is the Bowles/Baker era, buckle up. I know some of you are dying right now, but that's fine. You'll still enjoy next years meaningless season when we retake the NFC.

[Phantom]

Man, Doc must be smoking some good shit. He is living in fairyland.

Good for you.

[Doctor]

Okay, that last bit may be a bit far, but I really do think we'll finish as a top 3 team in the NFC.

[13F11B]

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/5-thing ... -coen-2024

At least he's be an OC and there's likely not going to be a big change in the Offensive scheme.

There needs to be changes to the system unless you want to be like the 2002 Raiders.

[Snake]

Burrow went to a SB year 2, so yeah, fuck Baker. That logic totally makes sense. So you're allowed to have down years, but not really.

I'm sorry, but with the signing of Liam Coen, I'm as hyped as ever. Doubly so on Baker being a franchise QB. This is the Bowles/Baker era, buckle up. I know some of you are dying right now, but that's fine. You'll still enjoy next years meaningless season when we retake the NFC.

Gonna age as well as Jose Ramirez’s ring of honor career.

[kaimaru]

Maybe he's a Gators fan?

HUUUUGE NO. Kentucky fan.

Have you watched a game at Rupp Arena? My ex 's grand mother had season tickets. Amazing atmosphere

[Buc2]

I think way too much was made out of "he coached Baker". They were together from December 6 2022-January 8th 2023. A little over a month.

What should we expect from Coen as our OC?

So, they knew and worked with each other of less than 2% of Mayfield's entire NFL career. Yeah...that being the driving force behind this hire as some here purport is pretty laughable.

[acmillis]

HUUUUGE NO. Kentucky fan.

Have you watched a game at Rupp Arena? My ex 's grand mother had season tickets. Amazing atmosphere

Not yet. Funny, I was born there, family went to school there, but only lived there about 9 months. We're going to KY for spring break this year...no games.

[Bootz]

I think way too much was made out of "he coached Baker". They were together from December 6 2022-January 8th 2023. A little over a month.

What should we expect from Coen as our OC?

So, they knew and worked with each other of less than 2% of Mayfield's entire NFL career. Yeah...that being the driving force behind this hire as some here purport is pretty laughable.

Right. I'm actually willing to give the benefit of the doubt that Bowles felt he'd be the beat candidate for the entire offense. Not just Baker. Otherwise I think IF this was made for Baker we're making this hire last offseason.

[Grahamburn]

I think way too much was made out of "he coached Baker". They were together from December 6 2022-January 8th 2023. A little over a month.

What should we expect from Coen as our OC?

So, they knew and worked with each other of less than 2% of Mayfield's entire NFL career. Yeah...that being the driving force behind this hire as some here purport is pretty laughable.

Coen worked under McVay. Shane Waldron worked under McVay. Canales worked under Waldron in Seattle.

It’s less about their actual time together and more about Mayfield, and the other offensive players, having continuity with the system conceptually.

[Miller4Prez64]

I’m not a fan of making the hire with Baker as the driving force but I don’t dislike the hire either. I’m whelmed enough about it. I don’t expect too much to change unless we lose both Baker and Mike and if that happens there isn’t anything anyone can do about the offense.

[Doctor]

I think making sure your offense fits your franchise QB is pretty important. With that said, even if we go a different route, I'd love to have Coen at the helm of the offense.

[Bootz]

I wonder who are the sure-fire OC candidates people were hoping for?

[Jonny]

Canales as a first time playcaller was a rollercoaster ride. I don't foresee a drop off with Coen. But the real question is, will there be an improvement? Had Canales returned that would have been a very likely outcome. But with Coen it is possible we would have the same type of rollercoaster ride we had in 23.

I read a report that Coen likes to run a lot from shotgun formation. If that is his design for run plays, it is very likely that he likes to setup the pass to be able to run. Barring a big time OL and RB upgrade, that may be the most prudent approach for our offense.

[real bucs fan]

After re-signing our guys, getting a run game going is priority 1 this offseason. Lots of great interior OL in this draft, could even see us grabbing one in the first round.

[mdb1958]

After re-signing our guys, getting a run game going is priority 1 this offseason. Lots of great interior OL in this draft, could even see us grabbing one in the first round.

Per PFN: 2 in the first round and 7 in the top 100.

[Sdbucs]

Perfectly fine with this signing

[Cheb]

It's hard to find information online about Coen's offense online, but here's two games of Kentucky's offense from last year:




Conceptually, there's alot of carryover between Canales and Coen. Where they differ, at least in viewing these two games, is that Coen runs far more power concepts than Canales ever did, which may not be a bad thing.

[kaimaru]

About out running attack, looks like the Wildcats used outside zone, which is at least better then inside zone.

Coen left the Los Angeles Rams with plenty of experience running the outside zone blocking scheme. Instead of going right at defenses, the offense tries to stretch the defense horizontally. The offensive line creates seams, opening cut-back lanes for the running back. A slower developing play, it forces defense to take another second or two to defend the run, giving the quarterback time fake the hand-off and throw it downfield to his wide receivers.

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wild ... un-scheme/

I also read he does motion a lot. He will come out in a condensed formation and then switch to wide formation hopefully to confuse the defense so that players aren't in their right spots on defense. Coan also likes to move the RB out into formation. If a LB is covering him, they will run the play like that. If a CB appears to be assigned to him, the RB will return to the back field. There is a lot of information out there, it's little bits dribbled here and there. I think I read he was 5th in FBS with something like 48% play action and 90% pre snap motion. Here is some info, just not details that I found:

Outside Run Game
Firstly, Kentucky's ground attack is a force to be reckoned with, particularly when it comes to their star player, Ray Davis. The Wildcats have a knack for getting Davis out to the edge, and his ability to spot and exploit openings in the defense makes him a significant threat. Clayton White's unit must maintain discipline in their run-gap defense to contain him because Davis is fast and highly adept at cutting to the back side of the formation, making him unpredictable and hard to pin down.

Play Action Team
Like many great running teams, Kentucky uses the play-action to open their passing game. Kentucky's offense frequently uses the run threat to sucker in second-level defenders, then capitalizes on an opened-up field with a well-timed pass. This'll makes eye discipline crucial for the Gamecocks, and their ability to pressure quarterback Devin Leary will be a significant factor in the upcoming game.

Motion, Motion, Motion
Another critical feature of Kentucky's offense is their use of pre-snap motion. The Wildcats use this strategy to determine their opponents' defensive coverage, run into a play, and create disguises. Almost 90% of the time, Kentucky incorporates some form of pre-snap movement into its game plan. This means that the Gamecocks will need to maintain a high level of discipline in their secondary.

https://www.si.com/college/southcarolin ... y-wildcats