Will Devin White be a Buccaneer next season?

[Bootz]

In this case Foles would be Britt, since he took over for a starter.....And I would rather have Baker or Cousins than Foles.

Make a case for Britt that goes beyond he's better than Devin White.

No... You can't just reframe the analogy.

The example of Foles is that he's a bad QB that had a magical run. White is a bad LB that had a magical run.

Britt isn't great, but the team around him did better when he played and he was a replacement to White. Do we want to commit to him long term? Debatable, but I'd pick him over White every day of the week.

Devin White is one of the bottom 5 LB in the NFL who flashes talent of a top 10 LB...rarely. He was benched because of this.

Your analogy was flawed from the jump.

DW had more than just a magical run. He was highly touted, drafted top 5. He's made plays, he's been a difference maker on this defense over the past 5 seasons.

Britt is a bad LB who hasn't even had a magical run. He's been mostly average. Anyone can find a LB who can make tackles down the field and stand in space covering grass. Team around him doing better isn't an endorsement on him unless you can directly correlate that success to him (you can't).


I'll say again, make a case for Britt. Pretend DW doesn't exist. What does he bring to the table that should have people eager to see him on the field.

[uscbucsfan1]

No... You can't just reframe the analogy.

The example of Foles is that he's a bad QB that had a magical run. White is a bad LB that had a magical run.

Britt isn't great, but the team around him did better when he played and he was a replacement to White. Do we want to commit to him long term? Debatable, but I'd pick him over White every day of the week.

Devin White is one of the bottom 5 LB in the NFL who flashes talent of a top 10 LB...rarely. He was benched because of this.

Your analogy was flawed from the jump.

DW had more than just a magical run. He was highly touted, drafted top 5. He's made plays, he's been a difference maker on this defense over the past 5 seasons.

We disagree here...

White is awful. He's always been bad, but made splash plays his first year. He's unsound, a poor tackle, slow to react, poor vision, awful at disengaging blocks, but that playoff run made everyone hopeful he could figure it out and until the first game of last season...he never did.

After the game he went back to his normal bad play...he also added in something from last season in laziness and giving up on plays. He was benched for Britt and the defense improved. For the same money I'd take Britt over White any day, but I don't think Britt is good...he's above average against the run and below average against the pass.

[uscbucsfan1]

I'll say again, make a case for Britt. Pretend DW doesn't exist. What does he bring to the table that should have people eager to see him on the field.

Why?

Britt isn't a FA and he's on the roster for super cheap. 1.1 mm next season.

This thread is about White, a FA.

We showed that with Britt starting, we are a better team against the run. I think a young situation LB would be day 2+ supplementing him as long as LVD comes back.

[Bootz]

Your analogy was flawed from the jump.

DW had more than just a magical run. He was highly touted, drafted top 5. He's made plays, he's been a difference maker on this defense over the past 5 seasons.

We disagree here...

White is awful. He's always been bad, but made splash plays his first year. He's unsound, a poor tackle, slow to react, poor vision, awful at disengaging blocks, but that playoff run made everyone hopeful he could figure it out and until the first game of last season...he never did.

After the game he went back to his normal bad play...he also added in something from last season in laziness and giving up on plays. He was benched for Britt and the defense improved. For the same money I'd take Britt over White any day, but I don't think Britt is good...he's above average against the run and below average against the pass.

KJ Britt is above average against the run?! This is called saying stuff just to say it. He's consistently blocked out by WRs & TEs. Short yardage he tries to go around blocks and vacates his gaps to do so. That TD the Lions scored on 4th & 1 is an example of that.

KJ Britt does absolutely nothing well and you have nothing to show that he does.

[uscbucsfan1]

KJ Britt is above average against the run?! This is called saying stuff just to say it. He's consistently blocked out by WRs & TEs. Short yardage he tries to go around blocks and vacates his gaps to do so. That TD the Lions scored on 4th & 1 is an example of that.

KJ Britt does absolutely nothing well and you have nothing to show that he does.

What would you accept?

PFF? defensive numbers from the games that Britt replaced White? Wins?

You have a bad play against the Lions...there were others against the Lions, but it doesn't take away that our run defense improved with Britt maintaining his assignment and trying/succeeding maintaining his gap vs. White getting out of the way or choosing the wrong gap and leaving a hole.

Again, above average against the run isn't glowing nor is it a stretch, but that's better than the worst LB in the NFL in filling run gaps in White.

[Bootz]

I'll say again, make a case for Britt. Pretend DW doesn't exist. What does he bring to the table that should have people eager to see him on the field.

Why?

Britt isn't a FA and he's on the roster for super cheap. 1.1 mm next season.

This thread is about White, a FA.

We showed that with Britt starting, we are a better team against the run. I think a young situation LB would be day 2+ supplementing him as long as LVD comes back.

You said you were surprised people didn't think Britt was better than KJ. He's not. I said make a case. You can't.

Where did "we show" that we were better vs the run with Britt starting? There were exactly 2 games where he played more than 90% of the snaps and the defense gave up 25 & 20 points in those games. So where's this evidence that shows the D was better with him on the field.

[uscbucsfan1]

Why?

Britt isn't a FA and he's on the roster for super cheap. 1.1 mm next season.

This thread is about White, a FA.

We showed that with Britt starting, we are a better team against the run. I think a young situation LB would be day 2+ supplementing him as long as LVD comes back.

You said you were surprised people didn't think Britt was better than KJ. He's not. I said make a case. You can't.

Where did "we show" that we were better vs the run with Britt starting? There were exactly 2 games where he played more than 90% of the snaps and the defense gave up 25 & 20 points in those games.

Britt is better than White, you mean.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-tampa-bay- ... linebacker

We could also go into breakdowns, game threads, youtube film breakdowns?

You aren't going to take my word for it, so what source do you want?

The team and defense was better with Britt on the field than White. White was benched because of Britt.

The coaching staff also felt we were better with Britt.

You don't...you point out one play. Even if you pointed to that entire game, the 20% of the snaps White was in, he was AWFUL.

What else do I need to show? The box score of which player started?

You tell me.

[Snake]

Devin White being drafted top five means absolutely nothing today. It’s weird to me that that’s being brought up.

Aaron Curry was drafted number four overall.

[uscbucsfan1]

I'll say again, make a case for Britt. Pretend DW doesn't exist. What does he bring to the table that should have people eager to see him on the field.

You said you were surprised people didn't think Britt was better than KJ. He's not. I said make a case. You can't.

You understand the contradiction here. Britt is a better player than White...or in the very least the coaching staff thought so last year and the team seemed to respond by winning when that transition was made.

You are asking to make the case for Britt, but I'm not trying to prop Britt up like some great player. He's just better than White, who was consistently awful.

[Snake]

Yeah, White has a higher ceiling than Britt. That he might hit one game a year.

Assuming he has three open runs at the quarterback. He can really close that linear gap faster than anyone.

He’s also gonna be around league worst in coverage. He’s going to take awful routes to ball carriers. He’s going to tackle everyone around the neck.

White used to be a guy you found a way to live with the drastic swings in performance. because the seesaw was every other game. Now he shows up two games a year. The book is out on him. He looks worse when Lavonte David isn’t out there to cover up his gaffes and tell him what to do too.

you would rather take a consistently mediocre linebacker over a terrible one who has a flash game occasionally.

[Bootz]

Does that mean Britt is a star? Absolutely not, but having him means it's not a necessity to upgrade the LB spot.

This is proping someone up. Having him doesn't prevent you from making upgrading that position a priority. In fact it does make it a necessity because he's not that good. You even agree with the fact that he's not that good. But you keep running back to "but but but he's better than Devin White".

[Bootz]

Yeah, White has a higher ceiling than Britt. That he might hit one game a year.

Assuming he has three open runs at the quarterback. He can really close that linear gap faster than anyone.

He’s also gonna be around league worst in coverage. He’s going to take awful routes to ball carriers. He’s going to tackle everyone around the neck.

White used to be a guy you found a way to live with the drastic swings in performance. because the seesaw was every other game. Now he shows up two games a year. The book is out on him. He looks worse when Lavonte David isn’t out there to cover up his gaffes and tell him what to do too.

you would rather take a consistently mediocre linebacker over a terrible one who has a flash game occasionally.

Or if you're smart you upgrade from both and stop trying to make a case that 1 being better than the other is good enough.

[uscbucsfan1]

Does that mean Britt is a star? Absolutely not, but having him means it's not a necessity to upgrade the LB spot.

This is proping someone up. Having him doesn't prevent you from making upgrading that position a priority. In fact it does make it a necessity because he's not that good. You even agree with the fact that he's not that good. But you keep running back to "but but but he's better than Devin White".

That's fair, almost anyone is better than Devin White and not even in the "Anyone but Jameis" sense, he's literally, by multiple advanced stats, the worst LB in the NFL.

I don't think any team has great players at all positions and for a majority of his snaps, along side David and the rest of our D, he filled his position and wasn't a liability. I think judging him on a single game is not fair, but this defense can be very good with him playing as we saw.

That's not saying I think he's great, but name a team that doesn't have an average or below average starter? It's about roster prioritization and the defensive line and CB are more important IMO than upgrade Britt....IF LVD is back.

You are free to disagree with that.

However that's not what we are talking about. You are seemingly arguing that White is better than Britt.

[uscbucsfan1]

Or if you're smart you upgrade from both and stop trying to make a case that 1 being better than the other is good enough.

I already said that's the ideal scenario, maybe twice.

But we don't always get around to doing everything we want or need in an offseason.

[Snake]

It comes down to how you wish to build a team and spend money/assets given the timeline your roster is on.

If you told me the Buccaneers rolled with some combination of Russell, Britt, David, and Dennis next season, I wouldn’t hate it. It would likely mean they see Dennis taking a big step forward next season when he’s healthy and getting more playing time. I would also understand paying a free agent. Especially if David is gone as well.

They’ve invested heavily in the front seven. Continuing to do so would not surprise me because clearly they value it. By that same token, maybe they look to invest elsewhere now.

[Bootz]

This is proping someone up. Having him doesn't prevent you from making upgrading that position a priority. In fact it does make it a necessity because he's not that good. You even agree with the fact that he's not that good. But you keep running back to "but but but he's better than Devin White".

That's fair, almost anyone is better than Devin White and not even in the "Anyone but Jameis" sense, he's literally, by multiple advanced stats, the worst LB in the NFL.

I don't think any team has great players at all positions and for a majority of his snaps, along side David and the rest of our D, he filled his position and wasn't a liability. I think judging him on a single game is not fair, but this defense can be very good with him playing as we saw.

That's not saying I think he's great, but name a team that doesn't have an average or below average starter? It's about roster prioritization and the defensive line and CB are more important IMO than upgrade Britt....IF LVD is back.

You are free to disagree with that.

However that's not what we are talking about. You are seemingly arguing that White is better than Britt.

Here's what would make it make sense for you.

DW showed us enough to know that he ain't it anymore. He's not. KJ Britt showed us the same. Might not have been as chaotic. It clearly wasn't as obvious. But he ain't it.

Most teams when they know they have a glaring weakness they try to get better. Both of those guys are IMO glaring weaknesses. It would be foolish to not try and get better.

[Bootz]

It comes down to how you wish to build a team and spend money/assets given the timeline your roster is on.

If you told me the Buccaneers rolled with some combination of Russell, Britt, David, and Dennis next season, I wouldn’t hate it. It would likely mean they see Dennis taking a big step forward next season when he’s healthy and getting more playing time. I would also understand paying a free agent. Especially if David is gone as well.

They’ve invested heavily in the front seven. Continuing to do so would not surprise me because clearly they value it. By that same token, maybe they look to invest elsewhere now.

I think have quality off the ball LBs is a necessity these days. You need guys who can run, cover, tackle in space. Look at the teams who were left in the playoffs. Ravens with Smith & Queen. Niners with Warner & Greenlaw. Chiefs with Bolton & Gay. No coincidence either that those 3 were the top 3 defenses in football either.

Miss me with that "we can get by with" bullshit. I don't even think Bowles would buy that crap.

[Rocker]

Devin White at his best consist of a run in the playoffs 3+ years ago and a single game last year.

The rest of the time White is the worse player than Britt. The defense played better with Britt than White.

That's like saying you would rather have Nick Foles over Baker or Cousins, because Foles peak was so much better.

In this case Foles would be Britt, since he took over for a starter.....And I would rather have Baker or Cousins than Foles.

Make a case for Britt that goes beyond he's better than Devin White.

Britt plays within the scheme, and doesn’t hero mode, thus unlocking other, more talented players to shine.

Devin White has a documented propensity to engage hero mode and give up explosive plays/TDs when he whiffs hard.

[kaimaru]

KJ Britt was a massive upgrade to White on the field last season. The Detriot game wasn't good for him, but it wasn't for White when he was in, either.

Britt is and will be an upgrade to White.

Not really..Britt is a liability in coverage and completely useless as a blitzer.

DW at his best was a difference maker.
Britt at his best is JAG, maybe more.

OBP needs to get better if they want to take the next step on defense. He ain't it.

Britt, on an admittedly small sample size, has played like an above-average linebacker. His overall grade leads the team, while his run-defense grade leads all players in their front seven.

He’s also been adept in coverage, posting a 73.3 coverage grade while allowing only five catches for 40 yards across 83 coverage snaps.

As a result of Britt’s emergence, veteran stalwart Lavonte David has played his best football of the season, as well. Add it all up, and you have a linebacking corps that leads the league, by far, with an 84.2 overall grade since Week 14.

PFF would disaree with you.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-tampa-bay- ... 0as%20well.

Overall grade 2023: 79.3

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kj-britt/57727

[Bootz]

@uscbucsfan1 tried making a case that the defense was better with Britt on the field despite not having anything to back it up. I wonder how this correlates

[uscbucsfan1]

@uscbucsfan1 tried making a case that the defense was better with Britt on the field despite not having anything to back it up. I wonder how this correlates

I asked you which way you wanted me to back it up and provided a link to PFF explaining their differences. I also said game film, wins/losses, or even coaches decision and you didn't respond.

White was really really bad last year and that's why Britt replaced him.

When Britt replaced White, we were 3-1. The 1 loss was to Detroit. In that game both White and Britt struggled.

[Snake]

Is this where Bootz admits that teams totally manipulate the injury list for a variety of reasons despite it “violating the CBA!”?

He was benched and they manipulated the injury list as a gift to White.

[Bootz]

@uscbucsfan1 tried making a case that the defense was better with Britt on the field despite not having anything to back it up. I wonder how this correlates

When Britt replaced White, we were 3-1. The 1 loss was to Detroit. In that game both White and Britt struggled.

So then if Britt is the direct correlation to us winning, why wouldn't we sign him to a large lucrative deal? And why would the Bucs brass choose to rotate him out at all?

Also Britt played vs the Panthers 1st game, we gave up 18 points. He was benched the game vs the Panthers in Carolina. We shut them out.

[Bootz]

Is this where Bootz admits that teams totally manipulate the injury list for a variety of reasons despite it “violating the CBA!”?

He was benched and they manipulated the injury list as a gift to White.

That depends on how far the rabbit hole you wanna throw yourself. We all know you have no shame and will suck on any lie like a leech if you think it makes you look knowledgeable. In that regard you're only kidding yourself.

[uscbucsfan1]

Also Britt played vs the Panthers 1st game, we gave up 18 points. He was benched the game vs the Panthers in Carolina. We shut them out.

He played 10% of the snaps in that game.

Again, no one is saying Britt is great, just better than White.

White didn't start, healthy, against the Eagles (barely played) and Lions.

The coaching staff wanted Britt in more than White.

[Cheb]

To me at least, this isn't a question of if Britt is better than White, and ultimately I don't think that really matters. Britt will consistently get a C on gamedays, whereas White can get anywhere from an A to a F. Some value the former, some the latter. On any given gamedays one might be better than the other.

But we don't have the resources to offer what White wants. Unless he tests free agency, finds his market is cooler than he thought, and resigns here for a reasonable deal, I don't think he's coming back to Tampa.

[Grahamburn]

Can’t we assume the plan next year is LaVonte, Britt, Dennis, rookie?

[TonyLip]

So far, everyone here says he’s as good as gone.
Stay tuned for the next great LB duo.

[Cheb]

Can’t we assume the plan next year is LaVonte, Britt, Dennis, rookie?

LVD is a free agent, and while he had a consistently good year as he always does (with his highest tackle total in the last eight years), he did just turn 34 and there's a non-zero chance he either hangs them up or gows to another team. I hope he doesn't, but we should prepare ourselves for that day.

Outside of that, yeah, I could see that position group shaping up like that. I've been watching a lot of offball linebackers in the draft over the past few days and there's some pretty good ones through the fourth round.