The Falcons QB Controversy
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
I liked Michael Penix in college and I think he has the tools to make good as a pro. His prior injury history was years ago, and he has spun elite balls at Washington for the past two years now without injury being a factor. Is he older, yeah, but that doesn't scare me with quarterbacks, where sometimes they don't play their best ball till after 30.
That said, the Falcons certainly pulled an odd move and I think they certainly didn't help themselves with this move. The reasons that this is being universally panned as a poor decision are myriad, and me repeating affirmations doesn't do much to drive the discussion forward.
What I find to be delicious irony that no one has brought up yet is that of all people, Kirk Cousins should understand the value of having a cheap backup in the QB room. Fucks sake, he was drafted to be the inexpensive option behind RG3, and all the criticism being leveled at the Falcons drafting Penix would have been equally valid about Washington drafting Cousins. Wasted pick, does nothing to help open their playoff window or improve the team, he will only play if the starter is injured, et cerera.
That said, the Falcons certainly pulled an odd move and I think they certainly didn't help themselves with this move. The reasons that this is being universally panned as a poor decision are myriad, and me repeating affirmations doesn't do much to drive the discussion forward.
What I find to be delicious irony that no one has brought up yet is that of all people, Kirk Cousins should understand the value of having a cheap backup in the QB room. Fucks sake, he was drafted to be the inexpensive option behind RG3, and all the criticism being leveled at the Falcons drafting Penix would have been equally valid about Washington drafting Cousins. Wasted pick, does nothing to help open their playoff window or improve the team, he will only play if the starter is injured, et cerera.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
What???Snake wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:57 am There will be a variety of quarterbacks available the next three years. Younger rookies (with more cost control instead of sitting on the bench for their rookie contract). Quarterbacks needing a change of scenery.
They’re giving up the most valuable aspect of having a rookie quarterback. Which is the cheap contract. Best case scenario, he gets inserted into the starting lineup the last year of his rookie deal and then they have to pay him if he performs well? Oof.
There are tons of cheap rookie QBs. The most valuable aspect of having a rookie QB is the possibility of ending up with a franchise QB to build around.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
I think you just described their worst case scenario where they pay Cousins the whole $180M then be forced to pay Penix with almost no playing time. The best case scenario is that they love Penix's progression over his first 2 seasons and they could trade Cousins, save $8M on their cap, gain draft capital, and hit the ground running with Penix in 2026. They'll get a cheap 2026 & 2027, before paying out his 5th yr option which by then may be only $28M (which is less than what Mayfield will get next year). That's if they don't extend him.Snake wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:57 am There will be a variety of quarterbacks available the next three years. Younger rookies (with more cost control instead of sitting on the bench for their rookie contract). Quarterbacks needing a change of scenery.
They’re giving up the most valuable aspect of having a rookie quarterback. Which is the cheap contract. Best case scenario, he gets inserted into the starting lineup the last year of his rookie deal and then they have to pay him if he performs well? Oof.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
"Fragile 36 year old starter"? Prior to the injury last year, he played in 136 straight games. That's fragile?TonyLip wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:49 am Last year their QBs struggled to get 150 yds passing.
They now have their competent, fragile 36 yr old starter as well as their talented, fragile rookie reliever…
I’d say they have their bases covered….in a well thought out kinda sorta way.
Good luck Birds
Stay healthy and off the IR
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
You don't waste your first round pick on a backup QB when there are other obvious areas of need that can be filled with that pick immediately. Espcially when it's a top ten pick. Your first round pick should be a guy who can start on day one. While Penix might be able to do that, he won't on this team because of Cousins being there. At the very least he's going to be 26 years old by the time he gets an opportunity to start. That's a bit advanced in age for a first time NFL starter.Cheb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:53 am I liked Michael Penix in college and I think he has the tools to make good as a pro. His prior injury history was years ago, and he has spun elite balls at Washington for the past two years now without injury being a factor. Is he older, yeah, but that doesn't scare me with quarterbacks, where sometimes they don't play their best ball till after 30.
That said, the Falcons certainly pulled an odd move and I think they certainly didn't help themselves with this move. The reasons that this is being universally panned as a poor decision are myriad, and me repeating affirmations doesn't do much to drive the discussion forward.
What I find to be delicious irony that no one has brought up yet is that of all people, Kirk Cousins should understand the value of having a cheap backup in the QB room. Fucks sake, he was drafted to be the inexpensive option behind RG3, and all the criticism being leveled at the Falcons drafting Penix would have been equally valid about Washington drafting Cousins. Wasted pick, does nothing to help open their playoff window or improve the team, he will only play if the starter is injured, et cerera.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
What "obvious areas of need" did the Falcons need filled immediately? They have Pro Bowl QB, a top tier WR prospect, top tier RB prospect, a top 5 offensive line, a decent TE who still might actually be really good, and likely a top 10 defense. They still have 4 of the next 70 picks in the a draft that is pretty deep defensively... especially since there were very few taken last night.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:04 amYou don't waste your first round pick on a backup QB when there are other obvious areas of need that can be filled with that pick immediately. Espcially when it's a top ten pick. Your first round pick should be a guy who can start on day one. While Penix might be able to do that, he won't on this team because of Cousins being there. At the very least he's going to be 26 years old by the time he gets an opportunity to start. That's a bit advanced in age for a first time NFL starter.Cheb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:53 am I liked Michael Penix in college and I think he has the tools to make good as a pro. His prior injury history was years ago, and he has spun elite balls at Washington for the past two years now without injury being a factor. Is he older, yeah, but that doesn't scare me with quarterbacks, where sometimes they don't play their best ball till after 30.
That said, the Falcons certainly pulled an odd move and I think they certainly didn't help themselves with this move. The reasons that this is being universally panned as a poor decision are myriad, and me repeating affirmations doesn't do much to drive the discussion forward.
What I find to be delicious irony that no one has brought up yet is that of all people, Kirk Cousins should understand the value of having a cheap backup in the QB room. Fucks sake, he was drafted to be the inexpensive option behind RG3, and all the criticism being leveled at the Falcons drafting Penix would have been equally valid about Washington drafting Cousins. Wasted pick, does nothing to help open their playoff window or improve the team, he will only play if the starter is injured, et cerera.
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Ever tore your achilles tendon? At 35 or 36 yrs of age?
It has a lingering effect on your post-giddy-up. The resultant pass rush also knows right where to find you.
It has a lingering effect on your post-giddy-up. The resultant pass rush also knows right where to find you.
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
The Falcons have Drake London, Bijan, Pitts. Those guys should all be serious weapons for Kirk. Kirk is old and coming off injury, so the Falcons grabbed a guy to groom under him who could be ready to go if needed.
I don’t think it’s a terrible pick, but I guess it’s similar to us taking Trask with Brady here
I don’t think it’s a terrible pick, but I guess it’s similar to us taking Trask with Brady here
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Trask was the last pick in the second round. Penix was number eight overall.Sdbucs wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:40 am The Falcons have Drake London, Bijan, Pitts. Those guys should all be serious weapons for Kirk. Kirk is old and coming off injury, so the Falcons grabbed a guy to groom under him who could be ready to go if needed.
I don’t think it’s a terrible pick, but I guess it’s similar to us taking Trask with Brady here
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
The fact of the matter is, they have ready-made roster to take off and make a playoff run. Pick 8th overall put them in great position to have a day one difference-maker during this playoff run. I can squint and see the idea about Penix. Particularly if they think Cousins will be done in 24 months from now.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:10 amWhat "obvious areas of need" did the Falcons need filled immediately? They have Pro Bowl QB, a top tier WR prospect, top tier RB prospect, a top 5 offensive line, a decent TE who still might actually be really good, and likely a top 10 defense. They still have 4 of the next 70 picks in the a draft that is pretty deep defensively... especially since there were very few taken last night.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:04 am
You don't waste your first round pick on a backup QB when there are other obvious areas of need that can be filled with that pick immediately. Espcially when it's a top ten pick. Your first round pick should be a guy who can start on day one. While Penix might be able to do that, he won't on this team because of Cousins being there. At the very least he's going to be 26 years old by the time he gets an opportunity to start. That's a bit advanced in age for a first time NFL starter.
It really comes down to how much you believe in Penix. if you think that giving up the opportunity cost of a day one difference maker and most of his rookie contract is worth it…
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
And Bakers not even 30 yet. I know its off topic but had to say it.Cheb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:53 am I liked Michael Penix in college and I think he has the tools to make good as a pro. His prior injury history was years ago, and he has spun elite balls at Washington for the past two years now without injury being a factor. Is he older, yeah, but that doesn't scare me with quarterbacks, where sometimes they don't play their best ball till after 30.
That said, the Falcons certainly pulled an odd move and I think they certainly didn't help themselves with this move. The reasons that this is being universally panned as a poor decision are myriad, and me repeating affirmations doesn't do much to drive the discussion forward.
What I find to be delicious irony that no one has brought up yet is that of all people, Kirk Cousins should understand the value of having a cheap backup in the QB room. Fucks sake, he was drafted to be the inexpensive option behind RG3, and all the criticism being leveled at the Falcons drafting Penix would have been equally valid about Washington drafting Cousins. Wasted pick, does nothing to help open their playoff window or improve the team, he will only play if the starter is injured, et cerera.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Likely a top ten defense my left testicle. The way you described them, you'd think they were a playoff team last year. They weren't. They have needs at DL and in their secondary, and there was a lot of talent available last night. Hell, with all the offensive players being drafted, they could've easily traded back, gotten their guy, and picked up some good picks. When you're coming off a non-playoff year, you don't draft a backup QB in the first round. Period and end of discussion.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:10 amWhat "obvious areas of need" did the Falcons need filled immediately? They have Pro Bowl QB, a top tier WR prospect, top tier RB prospect, a top 5 offensive line, a decent TE who still might actually be really good, and likely a top 10 defense. They still have 4 of the next 70 picks in the a draft that is pretty deep defensively... especially since there were very few taken last night.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:04 am
You don't waste your first round pick on a backup QB when there are other obvious areas of need that can be filled with that pick immediately. Espcially when it's a top ten pick. Your first round pick should be a guy who can start on day one. While Penix might be able to do that, he won't on this team because of Cousins being there. At the very least he's going to be 26 years old by the time he gets an opportunity to start. That's a bit advanced in age for a first time NFL starter.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
They didn't draft a backup QB.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:05 amLikely a top ten defense my left testicle. The way you described them, you'd think they were a playoff team last year. They weren't. They have needs at DL and in their secondary, and there was a lot of talent available last night. Hell, with all the offensive players being drafted, they could've easily traded back, gotten their guy, and picked up some good picks. When you're coming off a non-playoff year, you don't draft a backup QB in the first round. Period and end of discussion.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:10 am
What "obvious areas of need" did the Falcons need filled immediately? They have Pro Bowl QB, a top tier WR prospect, top tier RB prospect, a top 5 offensive line, a decent TE who still might actually be really good, and likely a top 10 defense. They still have 4 of the next 70 picks in the a draft that is pretty deep defensively... especially since there were very few taken last night.
They took their franchise QB as a top 10 pick. Kirk is a stopgap solution for them.
Kirk can be cut after 2 years with a $25mm dead cap number, but a $35mm cap savings.
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
I'm for this as this makes Atlanta a bit of a mess for the time being.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
And again, Penix is 24 and injury prone. He's had two ACL surgeries on the same knee. He sidearms the ball, which means it can easily be swatted down by an NFL D-Lineman. While he may develop into another Russell Wilson, he is not a QB I would've taken at 8.uscbucsfan1 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:12 amThey didn't draft a backup QB.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:05 am
Likely a top ten defense my left testicle. The way you described them, you'd think they were a playoff team last year. They weren't. They have needs at DL and in their secondary, and there was a lot of talent available last night. Hell, with all the offensive players being drafted, they could've easily traded back, gotten their guy, and picked up some good picks. When you're coming off a non-playoff year, you don't draft a backup QB in the first round. Period and end of discussion.
They took their franchise QB as a top 10 pick. Kirk is a stopgap solution for them.
Kirk can be cut after 2 years with a $25mm dead cap number, but a $35mm cap savings.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
That's fine and you are welcome to that opinion.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:09 pmAnd again, Penix is 24 and injury prone. He's had two ACL surgeries on the same knee. He sidearms the ball, which means it can easily be swatted down by an NFL D-Lineman. While he may develop into another Russell Wilson, he is not a QB I would've taken at 8.uscbucsfan1 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:12 am
They didn't draft a backup QB.
They took their franchise QB as a top 10 pick. Kirk is a stopgap solution for them.
Kirk can be cut after 2 years with a $25mm dead cap number, but a $35mm cap savings.
Just saying the narrative they drafted a backup is wrong.
Kirk is a stopgap and they drafted what they believe is their franchise QB.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
So if they have a ready-made roster.... why not try to draft a franchise QB for the future?Snake wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:47 amThe fact of the matter is, they have ready-made roster to take off and make a playoff run. Pick 8th overall put them in great position to have a day one difference-maker during this playoff run. I can squint and see the idea about Penix. Particularly if they think Cousins will be done in 24 months from now.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:10 am
What "obvious areas of need" did the Falcons need filled immediately? They have Pro Bowl QB, a top tier WR prospect, top tier RB prospect, a top 5 offensive line, a decent TE who still might actually be really good, and likely a top 10 defense. They still have 4 of the next 70 picks in the a draft that is pretty deep defensively... especially since there were very few taken last night.
It really comes down to how much you believe in Penix. if you think that giving up the opportunity cost of a day one difference maker and most of his rookie contract is worth it…
What if we drafted Jordan Love I'm 2020, instead of Tristan Wirfs? Do you think we still win the Super Bowl that year? Do you think we'd be a LOT better off right now, than what we are?
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
no, I don't think we'd be a lot better off. and Wirfs performing like a pro bowler as a rookie contributed massively to the Bucs winning the super bowl.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:20 pmWhat if we drafted Jordan Love I'm 2020, instead of Tristan Wirfs? Do you think we still win the Super Bowl that year? Do you think we'd be a LOT better off right now, than what we are?Snake wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:47 am
The fact of the matter is, they have ready-made roster to take off and make a playoff run. Pick 8th overall put them in great position to have a day one difference-maker during this playoff run. I can squint and see the idea about Penix. Particularly if they think Cousins will be done in 24 months from now.
It really comes down to how much you believe in Penix. if you think that giving up the opportunity cost of a day one difference maker and most of his rookie contract is worth it…
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
I thought they had ritter? I thought he showed promise? I mean, you go out and draft and sign a qb, like wtf?
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Yeah, I don't see it that way. I think you're massively underrating the Falcons.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:05 amLikely a top ten defense my left testicle. The way you described them, you'd think they were a playoff team last year. They weren't. They have needs at DL and in their secondary, and there was a lot of talent available last night. Hell, with all the offensive players being drafted, they could've easily traded back, gotten their guy, and picked up some good picks. When you're coming off a non-playoff year, you don't draft a backup QB in the first round. Period and end of discussion.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:10 am
What "obvious areas of need" did the Falcons need filled immediately? They have Pro Bowl QB, a top tier WR prospect, top tier RB prospect, a top 5 offensive line, a decent TE who still might actually be really good, and likely a top 10 defense. They still have 4 of the next 70 picks in the a draft that is pretty deep defensively... especially since there were very few taken last night.
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
They need to win the division or they’ll be looking at a Raheem special.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Right now, Vegas has them at 9.5 wins, us and NO at 7.5, and Carolina at 4.5.
Vegas sees the Falcons as the 3rd safest choice to win their division. The Chiefs and Niners are 3 games better than the next closest team, then Atlanta at 2. The other 5 divisions are 1 or 0.
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
This is probably one of the dumbest takes casuals put out.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:04 am Your first round pick should be a guy who can start on day one.
Sad to see it being spouted here.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
They don't want to end up with a Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers...it's a great point.Doctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:07 pmThis is probably one of the dumbest takes casuals put out.BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:04 am Your first round pick should be a guy who can start on day one.
Sad to see it being spouted here.
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
We had Wirfs higher. Not a hard riddle. That's if we had Love on our board at all.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:20 pmSo if they have a ready-made roster.... why not try to draft a franchise QB for the future?Snake wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:47 am
The fact of the matter is, they have ready-made roster to take off and make a playoff run. Pick 8th overall put them in great position to have a day one difference-maker during this playoff run. I can squint and see the idea about Penix. Particularly if they think Cousins will be done in 24 months from now.
It really comes down to how much you believe in Penix. if you think that giving up the opportunity cost of a day one difference maker and most of his rookie contract is worth it…
What if we drafted Jordan Love I'm 2020, instead of Tristan Wirfs? Do you think we still win the Super Bowl that year? Do you think we'd be a LOT better off right now, than what we are?
Same reason we drafted Trask ahead of others. We had him higher.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
I acknowledge this post. Message me if the bet gets made.kaimaru wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:14 amI will make you a bet for a permanent ban here that Penix is a bust. He will never be a starter for more than 2 seasons. Does your Doctor-ism willing to take this bet? Penix will not be a starter in 2029. I am certain. Are you? @ModX @MOD TB12 @Mod LVDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:17 am
Are we just "assuming" Penix is a bust? Because all this cry baby "win now" nonsense only makes sense if you are assuming Penix is a bust.
If not, the idea of PASSING ON A FRANCHISE QB to try to "win now" a little harder is fucking bonkers. Did we not just do this exercise? You can go through 2 or 3 GMs between decent QB drafts. And even then, they can get picked before you're up.
Kirk is 36 and far from being an iron man. Even in a ideal world where he plays two good years before going meh, you are set up with someone to take over without missing a beat. The idea of "just ride out your current QB to the max until he's done, then get a top pick and get his replacement" is the peak... I believe the term is, casual fandom.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
That doesn't answer ANY question I asked.Doctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:11 pmWe had Wirfs higher. Not a hard riddle. That's if we had Love on our board at all.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:20 pm
So if they have a ready-made roster.... why not try to draft a franchise QB for the future?
What if we drafted Jordan Love I'm 2020, instead of Tristan Wirfs? Do you think we still win the Super Bowl that year? Do you think we'd be a LOT better off right now, than what we are?
Same reason we drafted Trask ahead of others. We had him higher.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
I just heard Mark Dominik on NFL Radio say that he's confused by the pick that Arthur Blank had to be in on the conversations. Said that he doesn't think Blank asked the right questions. Makes me more confident in my stance that the Falcons made the right call. If there's one thing I know about Mark Dominik, it's that he's a terrible drafter.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Funny to see these kids treat forum ban bets like they are street racing for pinks. Oh em gee, you must be so cool.
So if Penix retires without starting his 35th game, I'm banned. When he does start his 35th game, Kaimaru is banned. If he starts a game in 2029, Kaimaru is banned. If those terms aren't moronic enough, by the time either event is trigger we'll be on yet another version of this forum.
The funniest part of all is you thinking your pink is even worth anything.
So if Penix retires without starting his 35th game, I'm banned. When he does start his 35th game, Kaimaru is banned. If he starts a game in 2029, Kaimaru is banned. If those terms aren't moronic enough, by the time either event is trigger we'll be on yet another version of this forum.
The funniest part of all is you thinking your pink is even worth anything.
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Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Oh, didn't know that. I don't really pay attention to the Falcons at all. Thought they were high on him once though. The move makes a little bit more sense from a positional point of view, maybe not the person they drafted. I still would had gone elsewhere though then drafted a QB. But hey, falcons do the falcons, whatever floats their boat
Re: The Falcons QB Controversy
Which isn't exactly evidence of this move being a home run.Doctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:11 pmWe had Wirfs higher. Not a hard riddle. That's if we had Love on our board at all.CannonFire wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:20 pm
So if they have a ready-made roster.... why not try to draft a franchise QB for the future?
What if we drafted Jordan Love I'm 2020, instead of Tristan Wirfs? Do you think we still win the Super Bowl that year? Do you think we'd be a LOT better off right now, than what we are?
Same reason we drafted Trask ahead of others. We had him higher.