Reviewing Trask’s Tape

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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Cheb »

mdb1958 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:38 pm So where would Trask rank in this years draft class
I haven't looked deeply into this year's class because I think it's a waste of time, but I thought Trask was the best pocket passer of the bunch last season.

Dude has skills. We just need to be patient and let him make the mistakes that are part of regular professional growing pains.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by mdb1958 »

Cheb wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:50 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:38 pm So where would Trask rank in this years draft class
I haven't looked deeply into this year's class because I think it's a waste of time, but I thought Trask was the best pocket passer of the bunch last season.

Dude has skills. We just need to be patient and let him make the mistakes that are part of regular professional growing pains.
Then it's simple, Tom Brady invites Grayson McCall to live with him and we sign him next year.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Nobody »

I've reviewed all of the tape I mentioned above. I took quick notes, but I'm not going to format them and put them up here (it would take me awhile).

Effectively, there is little to no difference from what I outlined above. My thoughts on him remain pretty much the same. I think the Brad Johnson comparison as his most likely ceiling (should he hit that likely ceiling) is a pretty apt comparison. Brad Johnson was a solid/+ QB in the mold of Kirk Cousins (though with a little more clutch). Solid/+ QBs can win at all, but they aren't "the guy." They aren't going to be the reason that you win a Super Bowl. They're just going to be an effective, reliable piece.

I'm not sure, in the modern NFL, you build around a QB prospect with a ceiling of solid/+. If you've got world class coaches and a world class defense and special teams and an effective running game, then solid/+ is all the QB you need.

Simply put...I would not have made this draft pick (especially for this particular team with this particular window).
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Buccabeer »

This year's final 8 teams had the following QBs - Stafford, Burrow, Murray, Mahomes, Brady, Garrapolo, Rodgers, Allen

The only 2 that I see that would have comparisons to Trask's ceiling is Murray and Garrapolo.

Our DEF better get Nasty if we're going to be deeper into the Playoffs.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by King Bootz »

Kyler Murray and Kyle Trask have the same ceiling??

Get these offseason trolls outta here! If that's the case we wouldn't be looking at other QBs to bring in
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by kaimaru »

King Bootz wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:19 pm Kyler Murray and Kyle Trask have the same ceiling??

Get these offseason trolls outta here! If that's the case we wouldn't be looking at other QBs to bring in
I agree with you. I think they saw Murray late in the season, and thought meh. I bet he had a lingering effect from his ankle injury. Before his injury he had a 72.7% completion. After he had a 65.3% after with only one game over the average for the first half of the season. He was also averaging 2.1 TDs per game before, and 1.2 after.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Buccabeer »

kaimaru wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:14 pm
King Bootz wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:19 pm Kyler Murray and Kyle Trask have the same ceiling??

Get these offseason trolls outta here! If that's the case we wouldn't be looking at other QBs to bring in
I agree with you. I think they saw Murray late in the season, and thought meh. I bet he had a lingering effect from his ankle injury. Before his injury he had a 72.7% completion. After he had a 65.3% after with only one game over the average for the first half of the season. He was also averaging 2.1 TDs per game before, and 1.2 after.
Without freaking out, the point was Nobody is correct in that an Elite QB makes a big difference in today's game. A Brad Johnson ceiling isn't going to cut it. Of the 8 QBs starting in the Divisional rounds, I would only say 2 of them would have a "similar" ceiling to what Trask might be able to do. Murray has some incredible assets, but his size is a problem. Those with knowledge of the game have stated there are coaches who would never-ever have him as their QB. Heck, if I were a Defensive coach, I would not even rush. I would just start jumping at the line.....If you want to put Murray in the same class a the other 6 remaining ones, be my guest, but he's closer to Brad Johnson than any of those 6 in my books.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by MJW »

Buccabeer wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:31 pm
kaimaru wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:14 pm

I agree with you. I think they saw Murray late in the season, and thought meh. I bet he had a lingering effect from his ankle injury. Before his injury he had a 72.7% completion. After he had a 65.3% after with only one game over the average for the first half of the season. He was also averaging 2.1 TDs per game before, and 1.2 after.
Without freaking out, the point was Nobody is correct in that an Elite QB makes a big difference in today's game. A Brad Johnson ceiling isn't going to cut it. Of the 8 QBs starting in the Divisional rounds, I would only say 2 of them would have a "similar" ceiling to what Trask might be able to do. Murray has some incredible assets, but his size is a problem. Those with knowledge of the game have stated there are coaches who would never-ever have him as their QB. Heck, if I were a Defensive coach, I would not even rush. I would just start jumping at the line.....If you want to put Murray in the same class a the other 6 remaining ones, be my guest, but he's closer to Brad Johnson than any of those 6 in my books.
Let's go with the premise that Trask has a less-than-superstar ceiling. He probably does. But just for the sake of this exercise, let's assume he does.

That doesn't mean going with him is the wrong decision for the Buccaneers, long-term.

I have some "hard to swallow" pills here. You ready? The 2022 Buccaneers Roster will not be as talented as the 2021 Buccaneers Roster was. And the 2021 Roster lost in the Divisional Round with Tom Brady as the Quarterback.

My point is, there's this unspoken assumption that if we replace Brady with someone like Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson, we'll be right back playing for a Lombardi. But...that's not necessarily true. In fact, after this offseason, it might really, really look unlikely no matter what we do at quarterback.

With that in mind, going with Trask for a year or two, while we rebuild our talent base with the benefit of having an $800K a year quarterback, and then making another run in 2024 or so might be a much saner path forward than trading a bunch of assets for an inferior quarterback to Tom Brady, surrounding him with a worse 53, and not having those assets to build.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by mdb1958 »

+1
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by King Bootz »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:10 am
Buccabeer wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:31 pm

Without freaking out, the point was Nobody is correct in that an Elite QB makes a big difference in today's game. A Brad Johnson ceiling isn't going to cut it. Of the 8 QBs starting in the Divisional rounds, I would only say 2 of them would have a "similar" ceiling to what Trask might be able to do. Murray has some incredible assets, but his size is a problem. Those with knowledge of the game have stated there are coaches who would never-ever have him as their QB. Heck, if I were a Defensive coach, I would not even rush. I would just start jumping at the line.....If you want to put Murray in the same class a the other 6 remaining ones, be my guest, but he's closer to Brad Johnson than any of those 6 in my books.
Let's go with the premise that Trask has a less-than-superstar ceiling. He probably does. But just for the sake of this exercise, let's assume he does.

That doesn't mean going with him is the wrong decision for the Buccaneers, long-term.

I have some "hard to swallow" pills here. You ready? The 2022 Buccaneers Roster will not be as talented as the 2021 Buccaneers Roster was. And the 2021 Roster lost in the Divisional Round with Tom Brady as the Quarterback.

My point is, there's this unspoken assumption that if we replace Brady with someone like Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson, we'll be right back playing for a Lombardi. But...that's not necessarily true. In fact, after this offseason, it might really, really look unlikely no matter what we do at quarterback.

With that in mind, going with Trask for a year or two, while we rebuild our talent base with the benefit of having an $800K a year quarterback, and then making another run in 2024 or so might be a much saner path forward than trading a bunch of assets for an inferior quarterback to Tom Brady, surrounding him with a worse 53, and not having those assets to build.
In addition to going with Trask while we rehab the roster, we'd get to take an honest look at him. Even BA has admitted that "bringing the gang back together" isn't a realistic option this year. But it's not as if we'll have to gut the roster. Trask would still be surrounded by a legit #1 WR, an at worst solid Oline, some good pieces on defense, and a very experienced and cohesive coaching staff.

We got our ring. Our "all in" was very different from the Rams "all in". We aren't in cap hell. Will we lose some guys? Absolutely. But that's life in the NFL business and it also presents the opportunity to get better at some spots.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:29 am
MJW wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:10 am

Let's go with the premise that Trask has a less-than-superstar ceiling. He probably does. But just for the sake of this exercise, let's assume he does.

That doesn't mean going with him is the wrong decision for the Buccaneers, long-term.

I have some "hard to swallow" pills here. You ready? The 2022 Buccaneers Roster will not be as talented as the 2021 Buccaneers Roster was. And the 2021 Roster lost in the Divisional Round with Tom Brady as the Quarterback.

My point is, there's this unspoken assumption that if we replace Brady with someone like Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson, we'll be right back playing for a Lombardi. But...that's not necessarily true. In fact, after this offseason, it might really, really look unlikely no matter what we do at quarterback.

With that in mind, going with Trask for a year or two, while we rebuild our talent base with the benefit of having an $800K a year quarterback, and then making another run in 2024 or so might be a much saner path forward than trading a bunch of assets for an inferior quarterback to Tom Brady, surrounding him with a worse 53, and not having those assets to build.
In addition to going with Trask while we rehab the roster, we'd get to take an honest look at him. Even BA has admitted that "bringing the gang back together" isn't a realistic option this year. But it's not as if we'll have to gut the roster. Trask would still be surrounded by a legit #1 WR, an at worst solid Oline, some good pieces on defense, and a very experienced and cohesive coaching staff.

We got our ring. Our "all in" was very different from the Rams "all in". We aren't in cap hell. Will we lose some guys? Absolutely. But that's life in the NFL business and it also presents the opportunity to get better at some spots.
I'd love to get a look at Trask, not gonna lie. But it's not factoring into the calculus in this particular argument.

The question we have to ask ourselves is, if you give us Wilson, take away multiple first round picks, and pick up his $40 mil cap hit (some of which we can mitigate, but still), are we going to be in a position to put a Superbowl caliber team around him? Not in 2022, I don't think. Not with the free agent defections that'll happen. Not with a defensive line to rebuild regardless of what we do.

This is really, really close to a no-win (Lombardi) situation for us. Nobody wants to hear that. But you're right. We took our shot, won a ring, took another shot, didn't, and we're not particularly built to take a third. We would have tried if Brady was still here, I'm sure. But Russ ain't Brady. Neither is Watson. Hell, nobody is. We have to be realistic. Because we could do everything right and still be an 11 win one-and-done team.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by King Bootz »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:38 am
King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:29 am

In addition to going with Trask while we rehab the roster, we'd get to take an honest look at him. Even BA has admitted that "bringing the gang back together" isn't a realistic option this year. But it's not as if we'll have to gut the roster. Trask would still be surrounded by a legit #1 WR, an at worst solid Oline, some good pieces on defense, and a very experienced and cohesive coaching staff.

We got our ring. Our "all in" was very different from the Rams "all in". We aren't in cap hell. Will we lose some guys? Absolutely. But that's life in the NFL business and it also presents the opportunity to get better at some spots.
I'd love to get a look at Trask, not gonna lie. But it's not factoring into the calculus in this particular argument.

The question we have to ask ourselves is, if you give us Wilson, take away multiple first round picks, and pick up his $40 mil cap hit (some of which we can mitigate, but still), are we going to be in a position to put a Superbowl caliber team around him? Not in 2022, I don't think. Not with the free agent defections that'll happen. Not with a defensive line to rebuild regardless of what we do.

This is really, really close to a no-win (Lombardi) situation for us. Nobody wants to hear that. But you're right. We took our shot, won a ring, took another shot, didn't, and we're not particularly built to take a third. We would have tried if Brady was still here, I'm sure. But Russ ain't Brady. Neither is Watson. Hell, nobody is. We have to be realistic. Because we could do everything right and still be an 11 win one-and-done team.
With the losses we're about to have to endure, we'll need those picks. We aren't rebuilding this roster via free agency. Maybe with some 1 year deals but it's not likely. Godwin, Cappa, Whitehead, CD3, Jensen. All those dudes aren't coming back. Their replacements will come from those picks.

I firmly believed 2 years was our window, Brady or not. Now wouldn't be the time to pretend we can suffer a bunch of FA losses, trade away a bunch of draft picks and devote a ton of money to 1 QB and still win a trophy.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Doctor »

Yes, MJW. You keep taking shots. That's how winning is done.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by CannonFire »

I find it humorous that people have seen what's transpired over the last 20... 10, even 5 years, and still act incredulous when they see a comparison outside their own perception. If someone says they can see Trask's ceiling similar to Kyler Murray and others get bent out of shape.

I'm willing to bet that someone said they think Tom Brady's ceiling is equal to Chad Pennington, Tim Couch, or Donovan McNabb. I'm willing to bet people freaked out on that person and called him an idiot. I'm also willing to bet the same happened with Russel Wilson (a 3rd round pick), and Prescott (a 4th round pick). Willing to bet people scoffed at the idea that Wilson had a higher ceiling than Newton, Locker, and Ponder. Willing to bet people scoffed at the idea that Prescott had a higher ceiling than Winston and Mariotta.

The guys don't even have to be that late of a pick. I remember people saying that Lamar Jackson's ceiling was higher than Baker Mayfield and that Jackson should be the #1 pick. The consensus completely disagreed with that and many were very skeptical about that. Here we sit today and Mayfield probably ends up like Winston where he leaves after his rookie deal to sign a backup deal somewhere else after the end of the season while Jackson will likely end up in the playoffs with a new deal.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by MJW »

Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:54 am Yes, MJW. You keep taking shots. That's how winning is done.
Yeah, it is, but the thing is, for that winning to happen, those "shots" are the last step. The first step is building a roster through smart cap management and good drafting. Then you need to coach the value out of guys. Otherwise you're the Raiders.

You look at the Rams, and everyone fixates on Stafford, OBJ, Von Miller, etc, and how going "big" got them there. Only, it's not. Cooper Kupp in the 2nd Round, then signed to a bargain extension. Darious Williams off the scrap heap. A'Shawn Robinson cheap. Matt Gay after we gave up on him. Ernest Jones at pick 103 as a rookie. An OL made up of mid-round guys and one guy who was dumped five years ago for being too old. ETC, ETC.

We still have a lot of talent on this roster. We also already have some huge holes. We're not as close to that "last step" as we should be to start trading multiple firsts to "get over the top." I said it before and I have a feeling I'll say it many more times this offseason: WITH Tom Brady, WITH most likely a superior 53 than the one we'll trot out in 2022, we didn't even get to the NFCCG. This is maybe not the ideal moment to play kamikaze missions with our assets.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Nano »

If we do go with Trask, I hope we figure out that we actually need to run the fucking ball. Especially with a young guy, you don't want this dude having a 700 attempt season like Brady did. Or even 600 attempts. Become a more balanced offense and team overall and that will help everyone.

We can't go into every game going "YOLO BRADY MAGIC!!!" anymore...and if we try that with Trask, we're going to be severely disappointed.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

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Nano wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:22 am If we do go with Trask, I hope we figure out that we actually need to run the fucking ball. Especially with a young guy, you don't want this dude having a 700 attempt season like Brady did. Or even 600 attempts. Become a more balanced offense and team overall and that will help everyone.

We can't go into every game going "YOLO BRADY MAGIC!!!" anymore...and if we try that with Trask, we're going to be severely disappointed.
I have a very strong feeling that Leftwich is about to get exposed almost no matter what we do at QB. What percentage of plays do you think worked the last two years just because of Brady's pre-snap reads, his audibles, or his execution? I'm gonna say "most." Another question: how many times did you watch the Bucs the last three years and think, "that's a brilliant play design?" Some of the TE screens were fairly clever, and we were good with the combination routes/natural rubs. But when I watch the Rams, the Saints (previously), the Patriots (previously), the 49ers, a few others...I say, "Wow, that's a really nasty play design" a half-dozen times a game. That doesn't really happen here. Brady just made great reads and pinpoint throws on a lot of really basic play designs.

Yeah...kinda thinking Leftwich isn't going to be such a hot HC candidate in a year.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Doctor »

Are we really all the way back to this "BA offense is archaic and stale" bs? Back to square one? Back to formula??


The last six offenses Bruce Arians has fielded finished

1st in yards, 2nd in points
9th in yards, 6th in points
22nd in yards, 25th in points
3rd in yards, 3rd in points
7th in yards, 3rd in points
2nd in yards, 2nd in points

That's four top 3 and one #6 finish in points scored. One 20+ finish.
For comparison, Kyle Shanahan's last six includes two top 3 finishes and three 20+ finishes.

But hey, we aren't doing super cool Deebo swing plays, so F it.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by MJW »

Doctor wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:25 am Are we really all the way back to this "BA offense is archaic and stale" bs? Back to square one? Back to formula??


The last six offenses Bruce Arians has fielded finished

1st in yards, 2nd in points
9th in yards, 6th in points
22nd in yards, 25th in points
3rd in yards, 3rd in points
7th in yards, 3rd in points
2nd in yards, 2nd in points

That's four top 3 and one #6 finish in points scored. One 20+ finish.
For comparison, Kyle Shanahan's last six includes two top 3 finishes and three 20+ finishes.

But hey, we aren't doing super cool Deebo swing plays, so F it.
Two Points -

One, I didn't say anything about Arians. Leftwich wasn't with the Cardinals when they put up those numbers, much less calling the plays. Has he shown you any evidence he's good at it, beyond context free numbers that are almost entirely attributable to TB12 making ANY play look good?

Two, If you're telling me we're going to have a QB as good as Carson Palmer leading the 2022 Bucs, that would be a somewhat different story (potentially). But we almost certainly won't. Palmer was playing like the franchise quarterback and HOF level talent he was before his knee injury for Arizona. Is that an option here? I'll take it!

But your context-free numbers are just as good as critical thinking. Maybe better.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Doctor »

I was arguing against your silly argument for "more creative plays", as if a beautiful creative play is what puts up points. These plays put up points.

Or are you going to argue Winston and Palmer also "make ANY play look good"?
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by kaimaru »

Nano wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:22 am If we do go with Trask, I hope we figure out that we actually need to run the fucking ball. Especially with a young guy, you don't want this dude having a 700 attempt season like Brady did. Or even 600 attempts. Become a more balanced offense and team overall and that will help everyone.
This is Arian's no risk it no biscuit offense. Zero chance of that. Double zero if we have slow starts.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by 13F11B »

Good to revisit this thread as we approach the new season. I am not sure what Trask is, but I would prefer to find out versus starting Baker Mayfield who we know is a solid backup and excellent clipboard holder.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Snake »

MJW wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:31 am
Nano wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:22 am If we do go with Trask, I hope we figure out that we actually need to run the fucking ball. Especially with a young guy, you don't want this dude having a 700 attempt season like Brady did. Or even 600 attempts. Become a more balanced offense and team overall and that will help everyone.

We can't go into every game going "YOLO BRADY MAGIC!!!" anymore...and if we try that with Trask, we're going to be severely disappointed.
I have a very strong feeling that Leftwich is about to get exposed almost no matter what we do at QB. What percentage of plays do you think worked the last two years just because of Brady's pre-snap reads, his audibles, or his execution? I'm gonna say "most." Another question: how many times did you watch the Bucs the last three years and think, "that's a brilliant play design?" Some of the TE screens were fairly clever, and we were good with the combination routes/natural rubs. But when I watch the Rams, the Saints (previously), the Patriots (previously), the 49ers, a few others...I say, "Wow, that's a really nasty play design" a half-dozen times a game. That doesn't really happen here. Brady just made great reads and pinpoint throws on a lot of really basic play designs.

Yeah...kinda thinking Leftwich isn't going to be such a hot HC candidate in a year.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Doctor »

Trask has a lot of tools that made him an ideal Arians QB, most notably a fast processor, great in-pocket movement, and the loveliest deep bomb into the bread basket.

But that offense is gone. And while a lot of those traits have stand alone value in just about any system, we still have very little info on what a Canales offense is going to look like let alone the kind of QB that will be a fit for it.

People seem pre-sold on Baker, but Trask is very much a "no shine on me, just get it out to the stars" kind of QB that Canales likes distributing the ball. Little hero ball, lots of ball protection.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by GreatTimes »

Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 3:25 pm Trask has a lot of tools that made him an ideal Arians QB, most notably a fast processor, great in-pocket movement, and the loveliest deep bomb into the bread basket.

But that offense is gone. And while a lot of those traits have stand alone value in just about any system, we still have very little info on what a Canales offense is going to look like let alone the kind of QB that will be a fit for it.

People seem pre-sold on Baker, but Trask is very much a "no shine on me, just get it out to the stars" kind of QB that Canales likes distributing the ball. Little hero ball, lots of ball protection.
Whoever is the Bucs QB, will he have time behind the Offensive line. Will the offensive line be able to run and pass block? Wirfs is the only true bona fide all pro offensive lineman the Bucs have, and the Bucs are moving him from the right side to the left side. Not an easy move for a player to make. I think the main reason the "experts and pundits" are believing the Bucs are going to be a bad team next year is because of the offensive line.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Obsolete »

Hopefully Goedeke used this off season to add some stength and do some homework. Ive got my fingers crossed(though unlikely to happen) that he can lock down the right side..or at least be serviceable and Wirfs does his genetic freak athlete thing and switches to the left side with little problem.
I totally understand thats a big ask but heres hoping.

I also have a feeling that Robert Hainsey is going to surprise some people.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Doctor »

I feel like Licht has been itching to replace Jensen for awhile now. He seems to have this secret agenda of discovering some brilliant OL kid he moves inside. Like it's a personal mission. He thought he had it with Ali, who turned out to just be better left as a stud Guard. I think it might be a hidden agenda with Mauch. Either way, it's left us with a plethora of smart, athletic OL, most of which played RT in college.

I love how worried people are about Wirfs switching from right to left but at the same time gave no fucks about Goedeke doing the same thing as a rookie.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by 13F11B »

Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 3:25 pm Trask has a lot of tools that made him an ideal Arians QB, most notably a fast processor, great in-pocket movement, and the loveliest deep bomb into the bread basket.

But that offense is gone. And while a lot of those traits have stand alone value in just about any system, we still have very little info on what a Canales offense is going to look like let alone the kind of QB that will be a fit for it.

People seem pre-sold on Baker, but Trask is very much a "no shine on me, just get it out to the stars" kind of QB that Canales likes distributing the ball. Little hero ball, lots of ball protection.
The other good thing is Canales doesn't really have a signature offense yet. He will be building one around/with whichever QB wins the job. I suspect Trask wins the job and Baker holds the clipboard.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Central_Buc »

13F11B wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:52 am
Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 3:25 pm Trask has a lot of tools that made him an ideal Arians QB, most notably a fast processor, great in-pocket movement, and the loveliest deep bomb into the bread basket.

But that offense is gone. And while a lot of those traits have stand alone value in just about any system, we still have very little info on what a Canales offense is going to look like let alone the kind of QB that will be a fit for it.

People seem pre-sold on Baker, but Trask is very much a "no shine on me, just get it out to the stars" kind of QB that Canales likes distributing the ball. Little hero ball, lots of ball protection.
The other good thing is Canales doesn't really have a signature offense yet. He will be building one around/with whichever QB wins the job. I suspect Trask wins the job and Baker holds the clipboard.
I think it's going to be the other way around, Baker becomes a huge surprise as I think Goedeke solidifies RT. It sounds like I'm reaching but I'm very optimistic about this scenario.

I still think we should take a flyer on someone like Foles for insurance.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Buc2 »

Central_Buc wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:28 am
13F11B wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:52 am

The other good thing is Canales doesn't really have a signature offense yet. He will be building one around/with whichever QB wins the job. I suspect Trask wins the job and Baker holds the clipboard.
I think it's going to be the other way around, Baker becomes a huge surprise as I think Goedeke solidifies RT. It sounds like I'm reaching but I'm very optimistic about this scenario.

I still think we should take a flyer on someone like Foles for insurance.
We spent our flyer on Baker.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by BuccaNOLEer »

Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:03 pm I feel like Licht has been itching to replace Jensen for awhile now. He seems to have this secret agenda of discovering some brilliant OL kid he moves inside. Like it's a personal mission. He thought he had it with Ali, who turned out to just be better left as a stud Guard. I think it might be a hidden agenda with Mauch. Either way, it's left us with a plethora of smart, athletic OL, most of which played RT in college.

I love how worried people are about Wirfs switching from right to left but at the same time gave no fucks about Goedeke doing the same thing as a rookie.
I'm just amazed that Licht has a job after this draft. The biggest need was LT and he completely blew it. Anyone who thinks Wirfs can put up Pro Bowl numbers at LT in his first year playing the position is beyond delusional. It is not an easy move to make. The fact that Licht didn't draft Harrison who was a stud LT and available and instead spent a second rounder on a guy who is projected at guard is appalling. Even more appalling is the fact that he gave up several picks this year and next year to do it.

I guess he sees the writing on the wall and is making some high risk moves. Either way, I don't see him in the Bucs front office within the next two years.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by kaimaru »

BuccaNOLEer wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:45 pm
Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:03 pm I feel like Licht has been itching to replace Jensen for awhile now. He seems to have this secret agenda of discovering some brilliant OL kid he moves inside. Like it's a personal mission. He thought he had it with Ali, who turned out to just be better left as a stud Guard. I think it might be a hidden agenda with Mauch. Either way, it's left us with a plethora of smart, athletic OL, most of which played RT in college.

I love how worried people are about Wirfs switching from right to left but at the same time gave no fucks about Goedeke doing the same thing as a rookie.
I'm just amazed that Licht has a job after this draft. The biggest need was LT and he completely blew it. Anyone who thinks Wirfs can put up Pro Bowl numbers at LT in his first year playing the position is beyond delusional. It is not an easy move to make. The fact that Licht didn't draft Harrison who was a stud LT and available and instead spent a second rounder on a guy who is projected at guard is appalling. Even more appalling is the fact that he gave up several picks this year and next year to do it.

I guess he sees the writing on the wall and is making some high risk moves. Either way, I don't see him in the Bucs front office within the next two years.
We gave up ONE pick this year (6th) and no picks next year. Also Harrison was considered soft as a lineman. We would never have picked him even if he fell to the 7th round. He is the antithesis of a Licht lineman.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Central_Buc »

BuccaNOLEer wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:45 pm
Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:03 pm I feel like Licht has been itching to replace Jensen for awhile now. He seems to have this secret agenda of discovering some brilliant OL kid he moves inside. Like it's a personal mission. He thought he had it with Ali, who turned out to just be better left as a stud Guard. I think it might be a hidden agenda with Mauch. Either way, it's left us with a plethora of smart, athletic OL, most of which played RT in college.

I love how worried people are about Wirfs switching from right to left but at the same time gave no fucks about Goedeke doing the same thing as a rookie.
I'm just amazed that Licht has a job after this draft. The biggest need was LT and he completely blew it. Anyone who thinks Wirfs can put up Pro Bowl numbers at LT in his first year playing the position is beyond delusional. It is not an easy move to make. The fact that Licht didn't draft Harrison who was a stud LT and available and instead spent a second rounder on a guy who is projected at guard is appalling. Even more appalling is the fact that he gave up several picks this year and next year to do it.

I guess he sees the writing on the wall and is making some high risk moves. Either way, I don't see him in the Bucs front office within the next two years.
Maybe they don't like Harrison, I can't blame him going BPA. We may be able to scoop a OT when teams make their cuts later in the off-season or camp.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Nobody »

kaimaru wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 2:17 pm
BuccaNOLEer wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:45 pm

I'm just amazed that Licht has a job after this draft. The biggest need was LT and he completely blew it. Anyone who thinks Wirfs can put up Pro Bowl numbers at LT in his first year playing the position is beyond delusional. It is not an easy move to make. The fact that Licht didn't draft Harrison who was a stud LT and available and instead spent a second rounder on a guy who is projected at guard is appalling. Even more appalling is the fact that he gave up several picks this year and next year to do it.

I guess he sees the writing on the wall and is making some high risk moves. Either way, I don't see him in the Bucs front office within the next two years.
We gave up ONE pick this year (6th) and no picks next year. Also Harrison was considered soft as a lineman. We would never have picked him even if he fell to the 7th round. He is the antithesis of a Licht lineman.
A bit off (the post you're responding to is using "several picks" for "two," but they're pretty much correct) but only because we gave up a pick next year. Our trades in this year's draft:

* Round 6 (179) pick to move up 2 spots for OL Cody Mauch
* Round 7 (252) pick to move up 4 spots for TE Payne Durham
* Round 5, 2024 pick to attain Round 6 (191), 2023 pick to select WR Trey Palmer

That first pick is nearly an end of round 5 pick (2nd pick of round 6) so that was likely galling for some folks with lots of solid prospects being on the board at that point. Particularly given that we have no information on if it was even a necessary move (obviously the Bucs front office either "felt it" or received some kind of call/intel that was either real or a bluff/false signal to get them to make that move).

Second move is basically priority FA. Nothingburger all day.

That last pick given up for the rights to Trey Palmer will likely end up being selections 129 to 141. If Palmer gives us nothing, that will surely sting some folks. If he gives us something, then we've traded an immediate year of service with something for future assets. The question becomes; "is this year competitive or noncompetitive?" Because if we don't get anything for Palmer's year of service, you've basically net lost a year of service by a potentially productive player in the future during a competitive window.

All of this is TBD, but those are the inputs into the questions/thoughts about the moves imo.
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Re: Reviewing Trask’s Tape

Post by Sdbucs »

BuccaNOLEer wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:45 pm
Doctor wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:03 pm I feel like Licht has been itching to replace Jensen for awhile now. He seems to have this secret agenda of discovering some brilliant OL kid he moves inside. Like it's a personal mission. He thought he had it with Ali, who turned out to just be better left as a stud Guard. I think it might be a hidden agenda with Mauch. Either way, it's left us with a plethora of smart, athletic OL, most of which played RT in college.

I love how worried people are about Wirfs switching from right to left but at the same time gave no fucks about Goedeke doing the same thing as a rookie.
I'm just amazed that Licht has a job after this draft. The biggest need was LT and he completely blew it. Anyone who thinks Wirfs can put up Pro Bowl numbers at LT in his first year playing the position is beyond delusional. It is not an easy move to make. The fact that Licht didn't draft Harrison who was a stud LT and available and instead spent a second rounder on a guy who is projected at guard is appalling. Even more appalling is the fact that he gave up several picks this year and next year to do it.

I guess he sees the writing on the wall and is making some high risk moves. Either way, I don't see him in the Bucs front office within the next two years.
The gap between Kancey’s ceiling and the player we could have gotten at that position in the second is greater than the gap between Oline at 19 and Mauch in the 2nd.

This is assuming for simplicity that Kancey and Oline at 19 have the same ceiling (even though they don’t).

As for a team need? D-line was/is just as much of a need as Oline. We still got both.

So Licht made a higher ceiling play that hit two positions of need.

Your problem with it is?
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