Welcome Ko Kieft!

[mdb1958]

He's a damn Edge hunter! Over on PR they have the phone call from Bowles - his family went nuts.
Made me proud.

[Cheb]

Makes sense.

He still feels like a solution in search of a problem. But I suppose we are at the end stages of building a contender. Shore up the margins where you can.

Leftwich/TB12 could also have some tricks up their sleeve with Arians out of the building. Look forward to it.

That's an excellent way to describe it. He really is a solution in search of a problem. This has never been an offense that depends upon the success of TE blocking or a FB making plays. Even if Kieft helped usher in a new wrinkle, it would still be a small wrinkle and the offense as a unit wouldn't deviate much from it's identity.

It's for that reason I wouldn't count on having a guy who's at best good for 2-3 plays a game a guaranteed active player on game days. Especially as a 4th TE.

Remember that the offense is under new management now that Arians is no longer calling the shots. Perhaps our offensive braintrust want Kieft not just as a tight end or even occasional fullback, but lined up as a TE-off in a wing position as he did in college. Maybe we want to run split zone looks or TE whams or whatever else Brady and Leftwich want to cook up.

Maybe, just maybe, we are trying to evolve our run game out of the 80's, and Kieft is a part of that.

Also, whomever mans the bottom of the depth chart for tight end is going to be on most if not all special teams, and I'd assume that Kieft could hold his own in that regard.

[King Bootz]

That's an excellent way to describe it. He really is a solution in search of a problem. This has never been an offense that depends upon the success of TE blocking or a FB making plays. Even if Kieft helped usher in a new wrinkle, it would still be a small wrinkle and the offense as a unit wouldn't deviate much from it's identity.

It's for that reason I wouldn't count on having a guy who's at best good for 2-3 plays a game a guaranteed active player on game days. Especially as a 4th TE.

Remember that the offense is under new management now that Arians is no longer calling the shots. Perhaps our offensive braintrust want Kieft not just as a tight end or even occasional fullback, but lined up as a TE-off in a wing position as he did in college. Maybe we want to run split zone looks or TE whams or whatever else Brady and Leftwich want to cook up.

Maybe, just maybe, we are trying to evolve our run game out of the 80's, and Kieft is a part of that.

Also, whomever mans the bottom of the depth chart for tight end is going to be on most if not all special teams, and I'd assume that Kieft could hold his own in that regard.

Very interesting change of perspective from you. You and I discussed this a while back, you were under the impression that Arians was just along for the ride while Brady/Leftwich called the shots on offense. If that were true back then, I imagine we'd be seeing much of the same going forward.

I don't disagree with anything you say relatively speaking. I'm just looking at the depth chart. And I doubt we're going to be prioritizing making a 4th TE with a limited skills set an integral part of the offense.

[IronDog]

H-Back. Fullback. TE. Jumbo. Goal line. Max protect.

Honestly feel like the front office went into this thing with a pretty specific plan.

This kid has nothing to do with Gronk signing or not signing.

Kinda like maybe they finally realized the A-Train was pretty good at what he did, and it's something we (including us fans) really missed.

[Dread]

Remember that the offense is under new management now that Arians is no longer calling the shots. Perhaps our offensive braintrust want Kieft not just as a tight end or even occasional fullback, but lined up as a TE-off in a wing position as he did in college. Maybe we want to run split zone looks or TE whams or whatever else Brady and Leftwich want to cook up.

Maybe, just maybe, we are trying to evolve our run game out of the 80's, and Kieft is a part of that.

Also, whomever mans the bottom of the depth chart for tight end is going to be on most if not all special teams, and I'd assume that Kieft could hold his own in that regard.

Very interesting change of perspective from you. You and I discussed this a while back, you were under the impression that Arians was just along for the ride while Brady/Leftwich called the shots on offense. If that were true back then, I imagine we'd be seeing much of the same going forward.

I don't disagree with anything you say relatively speaking. I'm just looking at the depth chart. And I doubt we're going to be prioritizing making a 4th TE with a limited skills set an integral part of the offense.

We dressed a 4th TE at times last season.

I don't think anyone is making an argument/mention that this guy will be an "integral part of the offense". Blocking TEs are like Fullbacks in the sense they are dying breed in today's NFL.

His potential value/role is as a blocking TE, probably in the role Antony Auclair had here until he went to the Texans in free agency last offseason.

Imo he looks to be limited to short yardage situations when we're in heavy personnel where he can act as an extra Olinemen or even a lead blocker.

Did we need to draft this guy, much less trade up? Imo no. But why right risk it if we know we wanted to get someone on the roster to fill that blocking TE role and this kid was the best candidate?

6th and 7th round picks are a crap shoot at best anyways. Might as well use it on a guy who could fill a role.

[acmillis]

Yeah but what were his electives 2nd semester, sophomore year?

pshhh. he was getting his prerequisites out out of the way, didn't take any electives until Junior year.

[King Bootz]

Very interesting change of perspective from you. You and I discussed this a while back, you were under the impression that Arians was just along for the ride while Brady/Leftwich called the shots on offense. If that were true back then, I imagine we'd be seeing much of the same going forward.

I don't disagree with anything you say relatively speaking. I'm just looking at the depth chart. And I doubt we're going to be prioritizing making a 4th TE with a limited skills set an integral part of the offense.

We dressed a 4th TE at times last season.

I don't think anyone is making an argument/mention that this guy will be an "integral part of the offense". Blocking TEs are like Fullbacks in the sense they are dying breed in today's NFL.

His potential value/role is as a blocking TE, probably in the role Antony Auclair had here until he went to the Texans in free agency last offseason.

Imo he looks to be limited to short yardage situations when we're in heavy personnel where he can act as an extra Olinemen or even a lead blocker.

Did we need to draft this guy, much less trade up? Imo no. But why right risk it if we know we wanted to get someone on the roster to fill that blocking TE role and this kid was the best candidate?

6th and 7th round picks are a crap shoot at best anyways. Might as well use it on a guy who could fill a role.

Yea, you're right. And each time we dressed 4 TEs it was due to injury at other positions.

I agree he's limited and could fill a roll. I don't understand why people are making my statements here out to be more controversial than they are. He's going to be in a battle to not only make the roster all together but to be active on game days. Nothing about that is breaking news.

[Doctor]

I don't really expect much of a change in the offense. Contrary to click bait media trying to make Bruce out into a Gruden, every interview from Brady confirms everything BA has said about coaching QBs in his book, the golden rule being only running plays you QB loves. It doesn't matter how great a play is, if the QB isn't comfortable in it and doesn't like it, it won't work, so scrap it.

I think Brady has very much enjoyed the offensive success he's had under the only offensive HC he's ever had. It's not hard to argue he's having the most productive stretch of his career. They may add their own gravy but I doubt anyone taking the biscuits out of the offense.

[Primeminister]

Here's a little something I watched on the treadmill this morning:



Look for our boy in black, #42. Consistently good run blocking against top competition; most explosive runs were right behind him.

I am liking this late round pick more and more. All aboard the Kieftwagon.

I must say I enjoyed watching his blocking more than I expected. I chuckled watching him railroad several OSU LBs even after the play has passed him. The kid likes to dominate other men on the field. I love it.

[Primeminister]

I don't really expect much of a change in the offense. Contrary to click bait media trying to make Bruce out into a Gruden, every interview from Brady confirms everything BA has said about coaching QBs in his book, the golden rule being only running plays you QB loves. It doesn't matter how great a play is, if the QB isn't comfortable in it and doesn't like it, it won't work, so scrap it.

I think Brady has very much enjoyed the offensive success he's had under the only offensive HC he's ever had. It's not hard to argue he's having the most productive stretch of his career. They may add their own gravy but I doubt anyone taking the biscuits out of the offense.

I don’t understand the desire to recast Arians as some overbearing coach who limits his QB.

[IronDog]

I don't really expect much of a change in the offense. Contrary to click bait media trying to make Bruce out into a Gruden, every interview from Brady confirms everything BA has said about coaching QBs in his book, the golden rule being only running plays you QB loves. It doesn't matter how great a play is, if the QB isn't comfortable in it and doesn't like it, it won't work, so scrap it.

I think Brady has very much enjoyed the offensive success he's had under the only offensive HC he's ever had. It's not hard to argue he's having the most productive stretch of his career. They may add their own gravy but I doubt anyone taking the biscuits out of the offense.

I don’t understand the desire to recast Arians as some overbearing coach who limits his QB.

The talking heads have to have something to talk about. So when somebody says something, far fetched or otherwise, they all have to turn into parrots. It's like listening to the "NEWS".

[Defense5599]

Imagine this guy opening holes for Lenny or our new guy White.

[Primeminister]

Imagine this guy opening holes for Lenny or our new guy White.

He is a real hole buster so I’m expecting gaping tunnels.

_{At least according to @PetePierson}

[Jonny]

We dressed a 4th TE at times last season.

I don't think anyone is making an argument/mention that this guy will be an "integral part of the offense". Blocking TEs are like Fullbacks in the sense they are dying breed in today's NFL.

His potential value/role is as a blocking TE, probably in the role Antony Auclair had here until he went to the Texans in free agency last offseason.

Imo he looks to be limited to short yardage situations when we're in heavy personnel where he can act as an extra Olinemen or even a lead blocker.

Did we need to draft this guy, much less trade up? Imo no. But why right risk it if we know we wanted to get someone on the roster to fill that blocking TE role and this kid was the best candidate?

6th and 7th round picks are a crap shoot at best anyways. Might as well use it on a guy who could fill a role.

Yea, you're right. And each time we dressed 4 TEs it was due to injury at other positions.

I agree he's limited and could fill a roll. I don't understand why people are making my statements here out to be more controversial than they are. He's going to be in a battle to not only make the roster all together but to be active on game days. Nothing about that is breaking news.

I remember from good old days of Bucs boards that there is always this tendency to put a positive spin on some trash picks. I personally feel like this pick is Jason Licht being his usual cute self. To me last year's draft class is mostly Trask trash and rides entirely on one player's success making it a mediocre draft (JTS).

I feel like this year's draft class rides entirely on two players' succeeding. Hall and Goedeke. Both have to become 7-10 year starters, with one becoming a probowl caliber player. The rest of the draft is full of names we won't even remember 3 years from now. I am not factoring in the success of a punter into the picture. I expect the team management to find a stud among an UDFA usually. Not a 4th round pick.

[mdb1958]

Yea, you're right. And each time we dressed 4 TEs it was due to injury at other positions.

I agree he's limited and could fill a roll. I don't understand why people are making my statements here out to be more controversial than they are. He's going to be in a battle to not only make the roster all together but to be active on game days. Nothing about that is breaking news.

I remember from good old days of Bucs boards that there is always this tendency to put a positive spin on some trash picks. I personally feel like this pick is Jason Licht being his usual cute self. To me last year's draft class is mostly Trask trash and rides entirely on one player's success making it a mediocre draft (JTS).

I feel like this year's draft class rides entirely on two players' succeeding. Hall and Goedeke. Both have to become 7-10 year starters, with one becoming a probowl caliber player. The rest of the draft is full of names we won't even remember 3 years from now. I am not factoring in the success of a punter into the picture. I expect the team management to find a stud among an UDFA usually. Not a 4th round pick.

It is not an accident that we go 2 years without a defensive tackle, I guess they don't hold it in high regard. I think it's the single biggest reason our defensive backfield plays the way it does. We do not breakdown the offensive line in time for it to matter.
Hence Tom stares at the ground while sitting on the bench.

[King Bootz]

Yea, you're right. And each time we dressed 4 TEs it was due to injury at other positions.

I agree he's limited and could fill a roll. I don't understand why people are making my statements here out to be more controversial than they are. He's going to be in a battle to not only make the roster all together but to be active on game days. Nothing about that is breaking news.

I remember from good old days of Bucs boards that there is always this tendency to put a positive spin on some trash picks. I personally feel like this pick is Jason Licht being his usual cute self. To me last year's draft class is mostly Trask trash and rides entirely on one player's success making it a mediocre draft (JTS).

I feel like this year's draft class rides entirely on two players' succeeding. Hall and Goedeke. Both have to become 7-10 year starters, with one becoming a probowl caliber player. The rest of the draft is full of names we won't even remember 3 years from now. I am not factoring in the success of a punter into the picture. I expect the team management to find a stud among an UDFA usually. Not a 4th round pick.

That much hasn't changed. But you would expect fans to be glass half full about every draft pick. I said it Saturday, Licht could've drafted 3 punters in the 7th and people would've still tried to justify it.

I don't hate the draft class. I just don't see much upside long term.

[Grahamburn]

The Jets had an A+ draft. I guess we’d rather be them? Don’t worry, fellas. We’ll be drafting in the top 10 again soon enough and we can all get excited about it.

Idiot Jason Licht making us a contender. Shame on him.

[King Bootz]

The Jets had an A+ draft. I guess we’d rather be them? Don’t worry, fellas. We’ll be drafting in the top 10 again soon enough and we can all get excited about it.

Idiot Jason Licht Tom Brady making us a contender. Shame on him.

FIFY. Anyone still pretending otherwise is only fooling themselves at this point.

[acmillis]

The Jets had an A+ draft. I guess we’d rather be them? Don’t worry, fellas. We’ll be drafting in the top 10 again soon enough and we can all get excited about it.

Idiot Jason Licht Tom Brady making us a contender. Shame on him.

FIFY. Anyone still pretending otherwise is only fooling themselves at this point.

Soooo glad TB12 has been in the war room for the last (almost) decade.

[King Bootz]

FIFY. Anyone still pretending otherwise is only fooling themselves at this point.

Soooo glad TB12 has been in the war room for the last (almost) decade.

Maybe if he was in the war room, we would've had had a 12 year playoff gap..Surely it's a coincidence that he's 2 for 2 in playoff appearances here while the Bucs were 0-12 before he got here.

[acmillis]

Soooo glad TB12 has been in the war room for the last (almost) decade.

Maybe if he was in the war room, we would've had had a 12 year playoff gap..Surely it's a coincidence that he's 2 for 2 in playoff appearances here while the Bucs were 0-12 before he got here.

If he gets all of the credit, then he gets all of the blame too, no?

[King Bootz]

Maybe if he was in the war room, we would've had had a 12 year playoff gap..Surely it's a coincidence that he's 2 for 2 in playoff appearances here while the Bucs were 0-12 before he got here.

If he gets all of the credit, then he gets all of the blame too, no?

Yes. Blame for winning a Super Bowl, being Super Bowl MVP. Blame for a 3 turnover playoff game vs the Rams at home. Yes, it works that way.

[acmillis]

If he gets all of the credit, then he gets all of the blame too, no?

Yes. Blame for winning a Super Bowl, being Super Bowl MVP. Blame for a 3 turnover playoff game vs the Rams at home. Yes, it works that way.

And Licht, Arians, Leftwich, Boles, DW45, LVD, Gronk, etc. get none of the credit/blame?

[King Bootz]

Yes. Blame for winning a Super Bowl, being Super Bowl MVP. Blame for a 3 turnover playoff game vs the Rams at home. Yes, it works that way.

And Licht, Arians, Leftwich, Boles, DW45, LVD, Gronk, etc. get none of the credit/blame?

Of course they do. You're the one who went down this rabbit hole of "blame/credit". So that's a question for you to answer.

[acmillis]

If he gets all of the credit, then he gets all of the blame too, no?

Yes. Blame for winning a Super Bowl, being Super Bowl MVP. Blame for a 3 turnover playoff game vs the Rams at home. Yes, it works that way.

.....

[King Bootz]

Yes. Blame for winning a Super Bowl, being Super Bowl MVP. Blame for a 3 turnover playoff game vs the Rams at home. Yes, it works that way.

.....

Sarcasm escapes this one clearly. You know how much stupidity irritates me. Don't get Bootz'd

[Grahamburn]

GM Power Rankings. Fun article. Bucs’ fans hold him notoriously accountable for a bad pick or two, but he’s been one of the better drafters in the game for a long time.

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/general-manage ... ft-edition

Factor in the free agents and trades? We’re lucky he’s our guy.

[Doctor]

I mean, stating we'd likely be pretty fucked without Brady isn't saying much. Not only because he's Brady, but even if he was a normal franchise QB. It's hard to win without a QB. Though that doesn't mean we couldn't win with another one.

I truly believe a big reason why Arains stayed longer was that he believed he could bring Watson to Tampa and leave Bowles (and Lefty and the rest of the staff) set at QB and set up for success.

[Grahamburn]

I mean, of course it was Brady, but Licht still had to sign the guy. Then the argument is “well, no other team wanted him,” which I don’t believe for a second, but Licht and his staff had to go through that tape, realize he still had it, and get him here while forsaking all others.

They deserve a lot of credit for that.

[MJW]

I mean, of course it was Brady, but Licht still had to sign the guy. Then the argument is “well, no other team wanted him,” which I don’t believe for a second, but Licht and his staff had to go through that tape, realize he still had it, and get him here while forsaking all others.

They deserve a lot of credit for that.

Ultimately as a fan, you either choose to give out credit (or blame), or you don't. To the GM, or the Coach, or the QB, whoever. If someone has decided Licht deserves little credit for our success, nobody is going to change their mind. If they've decided Brady elevated Arians, they'll find a reason to think they're right. So on and so forth.

In the end all that matters are the Ws. And the correct answer to all questions is almost always, "They all get some of the credit when it works, they all get some of the blame when it fails."

[mdb1958]

Where's the welcome mat for TE Ben Beise Wisconsin - River Falls

[Moozician]

Where's the welcome mat for TE Ben Beise Wisconsin - River Falls

Don't be a dumbass, mdb.. You have the ability to make one, don't you? Besides, the guy is a UDFA, is he not? He belongs in that thread.

[mdb1958]

I think he got signed.

[Al Bundy]

His only impact will be on special teams if he is active at all. He is going to get obliterated trying to block anyone other than corners or smaller safeties.

[mdb1958]

Where's the welcome mat for TE Ben Beise Wisconsin - River Falls

Don't be a dumbass, mdb.. You have the ability to make one, don't you? Besides, the guy is a UDFA, is he not? He belongs in that thread.

It is all about the mindset, I did not mean to anger you.
However, I did wonder how someone comes up with who is worthy to be welcomed.