Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Grahamburn]

[Phantom]

That’s mature leadership there, but I also have a wild idea, I would love to see Mayfield put the Bucs flag on the Saints’ mid field logo! because fuck the Saints



remember that? @SaggyBallZ

[CannonFire]

I've never had nor have, a problem with him or his play. I never said he sucked. I never said I hated him. People here, have said that I said those things. My only issue is that he's an "ok" QB and we shouldn't be investing a lot of money in an "ok" QB. Other teams do it, and it doesn't work out. The excuse ALWAYS is, "Well, who are you going to get?" When the question is answered, unless you say "Pat Mahomes", they always come back with a sarcastic "yeah, ok" response. That's the homer bias talking and it's not a real response. It's an "I'm scared to be wrong" response.

I said this in another thread... The term/phrase "Franchise QB" has been abused so much that people have reduced the meaning of it. A franchise QB is a guy who can carry you when you're playing a team better than you, more than half the time. This is done by making your team better. Have we seen ANY player, play better now that Mayfield is here? The answer is "NO". In fact, we've seen players (see the interior OLine and RB's), be static or get worse. I'm by no means blaming Mayfield for that. I'm simply pointing out that he isn't making anyone better, by his play. There's nothing wrong with that, many QB's don't. That's my point though about paying a lot of money.

In that post, I used Dak Prescott as an example. Who on Dallas is better BECAUSE of Dak Prescott? No one. He uses the talent that's there and they win games. Good for them. That's my point... anyone who's competent, can win games if your overall team is good. You just don't want a guy who makes you worse. Why are they paying him $60M AAV? Because "Well, who are they going to get?" Well, they could've gotten Baker Mayfield. They could've gotten Gardner Minshew (who's last 15/16 games... whatever, aren't much different than Mayfield's). Baker is making $35M AAV, Minshew $12.5M AAV. Dallas is stupid for paying Dak $25M AAV more than we are for Baker. We're stupid for paying Baker $22.5M AAV more than the Raiders are paying for Minshew.

That is money that can be spent on upgrading other positions. Rachaad White doesn't look to be getting better and neither does our OLine. Those are clearly individual talent problems. So, let's address those. Let's say we paid Minshew $12.5M AAV and Derrek Henry $8M AAV over the next 2 years instead of Mayfield $25M AAV. Are we better off? The answer is yes. Why? Because not only did we save $5M that we can use to get a better OLman (like Bredesen or Mauch), we also can use the pick we used on Irving, to get another player at a position... like OL to help that need.

The list of "Franchise QB's" is extremely small. Right now it's Mahomes, and an argument could be made that Stroud is on his way, but really, that's it. Everyone else ranges from a "good" to "bad" QB who only helps your team when they're cheap... because you can pay other good players, more money. The smart thing to do for teams is to give a 5 year extension to a young QB after Y3, instead of picking up the 5th year option. Stroud, for example, offer him a 5 year $250M contract. Now, the first instinct is to say, "Aren't you paying him $50M AAV"? The answer is "NO", I'm paying the $250M over 7 years, because he has 2 years left on his deal... Y's 4 & 5, bringing that down to $35M. I now have 7 years to spread out any bonus money without have to include voidable years. I also back load the deal in base salary so that as the cap goes up, his percentage goes down. The problem is, teams always wait until Y4 to do that deal. You lose your leverage because that QB already made his $2M Y4 salary. A player is significantly more likely to take less long term money for "now" money. If I'm a QB and I have to wait 2 years to become a free agent and make only $25M over that time frame, I'd rather sign a 5 YR extension for less overall money if I'm going to get a $40 to $50M signing bonus today. It guarantees me twice as much more now, and I will still make my money later. If I get hurt in the next year... maybe two, I'm only going to get my 5th year option money and may have to sign a prove-it deal once or even twice. Yeah, I'll take the money now, thanks.

I appreciate the post but don't agree with most of the points. I didn't call you a hater, but naysayer seems more than fair.

Mike Evans had a way better year last year than the last one with Brady, Godwin sure looks better recently. I think your criteria of a franchise QB makes all the players around them way better is faulty at best, and doesn't even really apply to Baker. Does locker room chemistry not matter at all? Has Mahomes declined as a QB recently? The offense sure looks worse.

At the end of the day you are drawing your line in the sand with you'd rather have Minshew and $20million in cap space than Baker. I definitely disagree with that, but it's fine to have different opinions.

You did say last week we'd lose because of Baker. Did you ever give him props for not losing? You certainly present as someone who understands and can analyze QB play. Now that we know exactly where you stand on who you want more than Baker and why. Why not focus more on the current play on the field which I didn't see any of in this entire big post.

Well, I thought you could be someone whom a reasonable discussion could be had. Apparently I was wrong.

Evans is better with Mayfield than Brady? Stop. If you truly believe that, then you should want Winston back because Evans' best statistical seasons were 2016 & 2018.

You're doing what the other yo-yo's are doing. You're taking my argument, changing it, and arguing against that point. I didn't say I'd rather have Minshew and $20M. I said Minshew AND Derrick Henry would save us $5M and the ability to address our biggest need (offensive line), in the 3rd Rd instead of drafting a RB who's not much different than Rachaad White. Having Henry for 1st & 2nd down work and White for 3rd would maximize their best traits and help our offense.

I said we'd lose because Baker isn't good enough to outscore a good team. The premise was based on the defense being banged up and giving up 30+ points. You seemed to remember that I said we'd lose because of Mayfield, but for some reason don't remember that I was pretty accurate with how the game would go. I said we'd struggle early to points on the board... we started off with 2 FG's. I did say we'd get a late TD and make the game closer than the score would indicate, but I also said that would put us in the 20's. Let me ask you, how many points did we score? Mayfield played well, but if you think we won that game because of him and not the defense holding the Lions to 16 points, then you didn't watch the same game I did. LOL, we had 3 drives in the 4th Q, Mayfield engineered our offense to a whopping 27 yards on 11 plays with 3 punts. Yeah, HE'S the reason we won.

[Backside]

I appreciate the post but don't agree with most of the points. I didn't call you a hater, but naysayer seems more than fair.

Mike Evans had a way better year last year than the last one with Brady, Godwin sure looks better recently. I think your criteria of a franchise QB makes all the players around them way better is faulty at best, and doesn't even really apply to Baker. Does locker room chemistry not matter at all? Has Mahomes declined as a QB recently? The offense sure looks worse.

At the end of the day you are drawing your line in the sand with you'd rather have Minshew and $20million in cap space than Baker. I definitely disagree with that, but it's fine to have different opinions.

You did say last week we'd lose because of Baker. Did you ever give him props for not losing? You certainly present as someone who understands and can analyze QB play. Now that we know exactly where you stand on who you want more than Baker and why. Why not focus more on the current play on the field which I didn't see any of in this entire big post.

Well, I thought you could be someone whom a reasonable discussion could be had. Apparently I was wrong.

Evans is better with Mayfield than Brady? Stop. If you truly believe that, then you should want Winston back because Evans' best statistical seasons were 2016 & 2018.

You're doing what the other yo-yo's are doing. You're taking my argument, changing it, and arguing against that point. I didn't say I'd rather have Minshew and $20M. I said Minshew AND Derrick Henry would save us $5M and the ability to address our biggest need (offensive line), in the 3rd Rd instead of drafting a RB who's not much different than Rachaad White. Having Henry for 1st & 2nd down work and White for 3rd would maximize their best traits and help our offense.

I said we'd lose because Baker isn't good enough to outscore a good team. The premise was based on the defense being banged up and giving up 30+ points. You seemed to remember that I said we'd lose because of Mayfield, but for some reason don't remember that I was pretty accurate with how the game would go. I said we'd struggle early to points on the board... we started off with 2 FG's. I did say we'd get a late TD and make the game closer than the score would indicate, but I also said that would put us in the 20's. Let me ask you, how many points did we score? Mayfield played well, but if you think we won that game because of him and not the defense holding the Lions to 16 points, then you didn't watch the same game I did. LOL, we had 3 drives in the 4th Q, Mayfield engineered our offense to a whopping 27 yards on 11 plays with 3 punts. Yeah, HE'S the reason we won.

Because your point was just silly. Mike looks like the same Mike Evans that he looked like with Glennon, Winston, Brady, Fitzpatrick, etc. I assume you give all props to Goedeke’s development last year to Baker then?

I’m sorry I misrepresented you. I should have said you’d rather have Minshew and Derrick Henry and $5 million than Baker so we could make completely different draft picks. That’s really not much different. Except you assume Henry would come here I guess.

Baker lost the lead and immediately led a clutch as hell touchdown drive when we had every excuse to just pack that game up at that point. Baker got the win you said a franchise QB would get us. Now you get all these caveats as if Mahomes or Brady never won ugly? He’s 1-0 using your very specific franchise QB criteria, and you still won’t give an inch in the conversation.

No one is interested in the reasonable discussion of Bakers previous stops. We are interested in his games as a Buc which by all evidence is the thing you care least about. Seemingly because he’s making you look bad and you seem to care more about that. But i’m sure after his first bad game this season you’ll jump at the chance to start talking about his current performance for once.

Sorry for engaging.

[Central_Buc]

@Backside now you see why we treat this like a clown show. This has been going on since all off season.

Myself and Phantom forgive you for calling us names today.

[Doctor]

Cannon, It seems like you have been constantly posting negative thing about Mayfield in last few months. Are you a Browns fan or something? Mayfield hater?

Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.

I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".

This was a bad take. Doubling down on it with twice as many words didn't make it better.

Baker is a great QB we're getting at a huge discount. Spin it however you want.

[Phantom]

... Keep it up

[Central_Buc]

... Keep it up

Poor, Poor Cannon Balls

[Doctor]

Baker really does ooze Buccaneer.

[Backside]

... Keep it up

Poor, Poor Cannon Balls

I'm sorry, misclick. I can't undo a thumbs down? :/

[Grahamburn]

[Buc2]

Poor, Poor Cannon Balls

I'm sorry, misclick. I can't undo a thumbs down? :/

Yes. You can undo a thumb.

On the post you want to change, simply click on the button next to the thumb at the top right side of the post.
.

Capture.JPG

.
A Post Reputation box will pop up. Click on the trashcan next to your username in the box to delete your thumb.
.

Capture1.JPG

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Then you can change the reputation to whichever thumb you wanted it to be.

[Grahamburn]

3-1 first “quarter.”

2nd in total TDs. 4th in yards. 7th in completion percentage (70.5%). 4th in passer rating.

[Babeinbucland]

That’s mature leadership there, but I also have a wild idea, I would love to see Mayfield put the Bucs flag on the Saints’ mid field logo! because fuck the Saints



remember that? @SaggyBallZ

lol I would pay a LOT of money to see that!

[Phantom]

That’s mature leadership there, but I also have a wild idea, I would love to see Mayfield put the Bucs flag on the Saints’ mid field logo! because fuck the Saints



remember that? @SaggyBallZ

lol I would pay a LOT of money to see that!

Just thought of Terrell Owens spat on Dallas Cowboys logo lol

[Buc2]

More Baker? Sure. Why not?


Erin: I have no idea what it's like to play in this heat. Can you give us an idea?
Baker: I changed my pants at halftime.
Erin: I wish I had!

[Phantom]

Damn thanks for sharing! <3 Erin Andrews

[Grahamburn]

That's great. How can you not love this guy?

[BJJ34]

Okay…

I’m a huge Baker fan since before his signing. Those Progressive commercials were top tier. And he had something to do with it. So, I support the man.

Devil’s advocate. His shtick can get old if we start losing. QB’s have a certain rah rah but it can go overboard like we saw with Winston. Or it can be perfected like we saw with Tom then taken overboard with what we saw with Tom. Guys need to have fun, but how fun is a game that literally risks your life and body. These guys enjoy it now. Come playoff time, will they still?

[Buc2]

Okay…

I’m a huge Baker fan since before his signing. Those Progressive commercials were top tier. And he had something to do with it. So, I support the man.

Devil’s advocate. His shtick can get old if we start losing. QB’s have a certain rah rah but it can go overboard like we saw with Winston. Or it can be perfected like we saw with Tom then taken overboard with what we saw with Tom. Guys need to have fun, but how fun is a game that literally risks your life and body. These guys enjoy it now. Come playoff time, will they still?

I'm not 100% sure what point you're even trying to make here. First of all, if the team is losing game after game, I don't think you need to worry if Baker will be going overboard with the "rah rah" as you put it. He won't. And, will guys still be enjoying playing the game going into the playoffs? I'd say that if they're on one of the teams going into the playoffs that they're still enjoying themselves for the most part.

[Grahamburn]

[Snake]

Go have another kid, Ryan. I’m sure kid #8 will take the sting out of this:

[Grahamburn]

lol. Fitzmagic hates Brady’s guts.

[CannonFire]

Ok, here's your choices...

Pick the one you want for the next 5 seasons.
a) 2018 Fitzmagic Bucs that had a losing record.
b) 2020 Brady winning a Super Bowl.
c) 2023 Mayfield Bucs that barely had a winning record, but the players were really excited.


That's really for Fitzpatrick.

[Pirate Life]

Ok, here's your choices...

Pick the one you want for the next 5 seasons.
a) 2018 Fitzmagic Bucs that had a losing record.
b) 2020 Brady winning a Super Bowl.
c) 2023 Mayfield Bucs that barely had a winning record, but the players were really excited.


That's really for Fitzpatrick.

Obviously taking the 2020 season (and the 2021 season tbh, Brady was robbed of MVP and if Wirfs doesn't get injured against the Eagles I think we beat the Rams and win a 2nd ring).

But last year was also incredibly fun with absolutely zero expectations/hopes beyond seeing Evans get another 1k season. Even the losing streak in the middle of the season didn't frustrate me like the '22 season or most of Winston's tenure here. They exceeded my expectations soon as they beat the Vikings.

[CannonFire]

Ok, here's your choices...

Pick the one you want for the next 5 seasons.
a) 2018 Fitzmagic Bucs that had a losing record.
b) 2020 Brady winning a Super Bowl.
c) 2023 Mayfield Bucs that barely had a winning record, but the players were really excited.


That's really for Fitzpatrick.

Obviously taking the 2020 season (and the 2021 season tbh, Brady was robbed of MVP and if Wirfs doesn't get injured against the Eagles I think we beat the Rams and win a 2nd ring).

But last year was also incredibly fun with absolutely zero expectations/hopes beyond seeing Evans get another 1k season. Even the losing streak in the middle of the season didn't frustrate me like the '22 season or most of Winston's tenure here. They exceeded my expectations soon as they beat the Vikings.

I agree with you about 2021. I also think that if either Godwin doesn't tear an ACL OR Brown doesn't go off deep end (one of the two), we win bakc to back.

Exactly, last year was fun because your expectations were low. Are you're expectations low again or are they higher? If they're higher, when will "fun" not be good enough?

[Grahamburn]

Yeah. Losing Wirfs was huge but Godwin and Brown were tough. The 21 team was better than 20. Damn shame.

[Pirate Life]

I agree with you about 2021. I also think that if either Godwin doesn't tear an ACL OR Brown doesn't go off deep end (one of the two), we win bakc to back.

Exactly, last year was fun because your expectations were low. Are you're expectations low again or are they higher? If they're higher, when will "fun" not be good enough?

Honestly, mixed. Mostly due to Bowles. I think better of him as a coach now than I did previously, but still don't think he's the 'right' coach. But the players certainly like playing for him and the team looks to have a looser, more close knit vibe than they did during Brady's time here. To some degree, I think it's because the players are younger and aren't here 'just to get a ring' because Brady was here. They look like they are having a great time playing together, some of that credit has to go to Bowles.

I really enjoy watching this group on Sundays, they seem to be playing for each other rather than to not get Brady or Arians mad at them if that makes sense. I also don't get as frustrated when they have a game like they did against the Broncos for the most part. I'll still get miffed when they make a bad play or look lost, but it doesn't drive my blood pressure up like the 2020 Chicago game or the 9-0 Saints game in 2021.

FWIW, I think Baker is the perfect QB for this group, just as I felt that Brady was the perfect one for the 2020/2021 team.

And the Bucs being better than everyone else expected while the 'chosen' Falcons and Saints still ain't it amuses the hell out of me.

[CannonFire]

[BJJ34]

Okay…

I’m a huge Baker fan since before his signing. Those Progressive commercials were top tier. And he had something to do with it. So, I support the man.

Devil’s advocate. His shtick can get old if we start losing. QB’s have a certain rah rah but it can go overboard like we saw with Winston. Or it can be perfected like we saw with Tom then taken overboard with what we saw with Tom. Guys need to have fun, but how fun is a game that literally risks your life and body. These guys enjoy it now. Come playoff time, will they still?

I'm not 100% sure what point you're even trying to make here. First of all, if the team is losing game after game, I don't think you need to worry if Baker will be going overboard with the "rah rah" as you put it. He won't. And, will guys still be enjoying playing the game going into the playoffs? I'd say that if they're on one of the teams going into the playoffs that they're still enjoying themselves for the most part.

You’re assuming a group of millionaires is wanting to win. Not everyone is about winning in a football locker room. There are countless documentaries about this. Some guys are just freak athletes. We, as fans, confuse this.

Baker’s rah-rah can rub some the wrong way. Brady wasn’t rah-rah as much as he was driven to perfection. But he made up for it financially to guys. Guys were never more lucrative than when Tom was in town. Winfield and Vea came into that. Evans has seen so many different styles if QB’s that it’d be interesting to hear his favorite of them all. And he’d probably lean Tom for media reasons but his actual personality is lackadaisical. He takes plays off. Hell on Thursday night he took plays off. Some guys don’t need to be pushed and some guys do. Godwin doesn’t. I love Baker myself because of his put his head down and take someone on mentality. Most locker rooms do love that stuff.

[Grahamburn]

9 passes in the second half? Cut this guy loose. Is that Coen or Bowles?

Can we all agree Baker is our guy or do we still have doubters out there?

[BJJ34]

9 passes in the second half? Cut this guy loose. Is that Coen or Bowles?

Can we all agree Baker is our guy or do we still have doubters out there?

My buddy is a degenerate parlay bettor. He hits though. And this one he had on Thursday had Baker +200 yards passing. I laughed. I said they played not to win and it showed and he is still furious. Probably win’t assign me a game for reffing now lol.

[Grahamburn]

9 passes in the second half? Cut this guy loose. Is that Coen or Bowles?

Can we all agree Baker is our guy or do we still have doubters out there?

My buddy is a degenerate parlay bettor. He hits though. And this one he had on Thursday had Baker +200 yards passing. I laughed. I said they played not to win and it showed and he is still furious. Probably win’t assign me a game for reffing now lol.

Weird game. They went 3 and out to start the half. Barely had the ball. 5 possessions? Couple field goals. He made plays with his legs and Kirk tore us a new one. But, he did enough to win for sure. Had the ball twice in field goal range inside 4 minutes and got zero points. Argh!!

[BJJ34]

My buddy is a degenerate parlay bettor. He hits though. And this one he had on Thursday had Baker +200 yards passing. I laughed. I said they played not to win and it showed and he is still furious. Probably win’t assign me a game for reffing now lol.

Weird game. They went 3 and out to start the half. Barely had the ball. 5 possessions? Couple field goals. He made plays with his legs and Kirk tore us a new one. But, he did enough to win for sure. Had the ball twice in field goal range inside 4 minutes and got zero points. Argh!!

As I originally said, “that’s a rough one”.

[Grahamburn]