Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Sooner06]

Baker Mayfield is a straight up baller.

Better than Tua, Stroud, Trevor, Jalen Hurts, Jordan Love, Dak, Geno, and Kirk Cousins. Not one of those QBs could've kept making chicken salad out of chickenshit the way Baker did tonight. Mark it down.

[Doctor]

People also sleeping on the fact that we're 0.5 seasons into the system as a whole.

Imagine Baker actually on year 3 of the same OC for once. The whole offense.

It'll get there.

[Snake]

People also sleeping on the fact that we're 0.5 seasons into the system as a whole.

Imagine Baker actually on year 3 of the same OC for once. The whole offense.

It'll get there.

And if Coen takes another job, NFL/NCAA HC?

[BJJ34]

People also sleeping on the fact that we're 0.5 seasons into the system as a whole.

Imagine Baker actually on year 3 of the same OC for once. The whole offense.

It'll get there.

I’d scrap this season. Half the weapons aren’t there and we’re legit designing plays for Otton.

Shepperd came up huge on the TD drive in the fourth, but he wasn’t consistent all game. Palmer hasn’t been there.

Baker’s talents can be useful with a new system too. I agree Coen’s system fits but there’s no saying he stays here.

[Doctor]

What does that even mean, scrap the season?

Stop trying?
Stop gelling?

There's a lot more chemistry for this team to build outside of Godwin.

[Grahamburn]

Baker and Coen are the only reasons we’re even close to competitive. Studs.

[Sooner06]

People also sleeping on the fact that we're 0.5 seasons into the system as a whole.

Imagine Baker actually on year 3 of the same OC for once. The whole offense.

It'll get there.

And if Coen takes another job, NFL/NCAA HC?

I think it's highly unlikely Coen's going back to college ball. He said in one preseason presser that he felt that his time in college was done after the 2023 season, and that his dream had always been to call plays in the NFL.

That said, after last night, he's going to get at least a half dozen calls about becoming HC, sooner rather than later. He and Baker put on a hell of a show.

[Phantom]

I’m having a bit of fun observing Coen’s expression in the last two games. Something that Bowles never shows. Coen just wants to win!

[Phantom]

Baker and Coen are the only reasons we’re even close to competitive. Studs.

If our defense is top 5 , we’ll be at least 8-1 and we’ll crush the Falcons twice!

[Phantom]

Coen and Baker’s collaboration is like Brad Johnson and Gruden’s Super Bowl run

[Phantom]

@Sooner06 I must say you’re an excellent addition to this forum. I enjoy reading all of your analyses on Baker Mayfield and the offense. It seems like you have a deep understanding of football, Keep it up. Man

[Sooner06]

@Sooner06 I must say you’re an excellent addition to this forum. I enjoy reading all of your analyses on Baker Mayfield and the offense. It seems like you have a deep understanding of football, Keep it up. Man

Thx, appreciate it. Though I have to warn everyone, if I've had more than 2 scotches, I can't be held responsible for anything I post. So if I post anything that's all in caps or is directly opposite of common sense, I've exceeded my limit for the night.

[Sooner06]

Seriously though, As a KC fan, and a Baker fan, I feel pretty well-versed in the AFC-W, AFC-E and AFC-N. Not as knowledgeable about the AFC-S, except IND because my brother is a fan. In the NFC, my brother got me into DET, and my ex-wife was from CHI, and my best friend in college was from WIS, so I keep tabs on the NFC-N. Because of Matt Stafford, I followed him to LAR, and I live in PHX, so I feel like I know the NFC-W okay. The rest of the NFC not so much.

So if I start pontificating about the AFC-S/NFC-E and the NFC-S (until I spend more time doing my due diligence) I'm probably guessing more.

[Babeinbucland]

[Betsy]

Seriously though, As a KC fan, and a Baker fan, I feel pretty well-versed in the AFC-W, AFC-E and AFC-N. Not as knowledgeable about the AFC-S, except IND because my brother is a fan. In the NFC, my brother got me into DET, and my ex-wife was from CHI, and my best friend in college was from WIS, so I keep tabs on the NFC-N. Because of Matt Stafford, I followed him to LAR, and I live in PHX, so I feel like I know the NFC-W okay. The rest of the NFC not so much.

So if I start pontificating about the AFC-S/NFC-E and the NFC-S (until I spend more time doing my due diligence) I'm probably guessing more.

OK, after reading that, I have a headache. You sure you don't have multiple personalities?

[Sooner06]

Seriously though, As a KC fan, and a Baker fan, I feel pretty well-versed in the AFC-W, AFC-E and AFC-N. Not as knowledgeable about the AFC-S, except IND because my brother is a fan. In the NFC, my brother got me into DET, and my ex-wife was from CHI, and my best friend in college was from WIS, so I keep tabs on the NFC-N. Because of Matt Stafford, I followed him to LAR, and I live in PHX, so I feel like I know the NFC-W okay. The rest of the NFC not so much.

So if I start pontificating about the AFC-S/NFC-E and the NFC-S (until I spend more time doing my due diligence) I'm probably guessing more.

OK, after reading that, I have a headache. You sure you don't have multiple personalities?

Lol, as far as the NFL goes, I guess yeah, I do.

[Grahamburn]

We're about to find out reeeeeaaaaallll quick just how "good" Baker is when he's throwing to me, Bootz, and old College teammates.

0-3. 22.66 ppg though.

[13F11B]

We're about to find out reeeeeaaaaallll quick just how "good" Baker is when he's throwing to me, Bootz, and old College teammates.

0-3. 22.66 ppg though.

Baker is not the reason the team lost.
Bowles and the defense is.

[BucsNBills]

0-3. 22.66 ppg though.

Baker is not the reason the team lost.
Bowles and the defense is.

No he's not. There's a long list of problems with this team and Baker aint one of them.

We have our QB for the foreseeable future which is pretty incredible when you look at what the Patriots have been post Brady vs the Bucs. They've already drafted two QBs in the top 15 while we simply scooped up Baker.

We have a franchise QB which means we're always a viable team..

[Bootz]

Baker is not the reason the team lost.
Bowles and the defense is.

No he's not. There's a long list of problems with this team and Baker aint one of them.

We have our QB for the foreseeable future which is pretty incredible when you look at what the Patriots have been post Brady vs the Bucs. They've already drafted two QBs in the top 15 while we simply scooped up Baker.

We have a franchise QB which means we're always a viable team..

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

[BucsNBills]

No he's not. There's a long list of problems with this team and Baker aint one of them.

We have our QB for the foreseeable future which is pretty incredible when you look at what the Patriots have been post Brady vs the Bucs. They've already drafted two QBs in the top 15 while we simply scooped up Baker.

We have a franchise QB which means we're always a viable team..

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

But we're very competitive with these "better" teams with Baker under center??? He's made so many great plays this year which have led to us winning or at least having a shot.

He went toe to toe with Mahomes and Bowled and the defense lost us the game.

Same thing that just happened with the 9ers.

Baker isn't a top 5 QB in the league, but guess what? Only 5 teams get to have a top 5 QB so for everyone else they're having to make do with the QB they have which for us means we have to be "content" with a top 10 QB instead.

This is year 1 with Coen as OC and Baker is on pace for his best year as a starter and he's having to do that without his top 2 WRs so yeah I'm pretty comfortable with what the future can bring this team with Bake under center.

Every team that doesn't have Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, or Jackson has a "ceiling" no different than us.

We can win a lot of games with Baker and he's at the bottom of problems that this team needs to fix. If we ever get to the point where the roster is so good that Baker is the thing holding us back, then that means we're in a pretty good situation if you ask me.

That's just my opinion though.

[Four Verticals]

The Bucs currently have their arguably 3 of 4 best offensive players either out or missed time recently. Yet they still aren't losing because of their offense. That's a feather in Mayfield's cap. It's because the defense can't stop the opponent.

Losiing is not the offense's fault. It's because the defense can't stop the opponent.

[Grahamburn]

No he's not. There's a long list of problems with this team and Baker aint one of them.

We have our QB for the foreseeable future which is pretty incredible when you look at what the Patriots have been post Brady vs the Bucs. They've already drafted two QBs in the top 15 while we simply scooped up Baker.

We have a franchise QB which means we're always a viable team..

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

The Lions have one loss.

[Bootz]

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

The Lions have one loss.

Not hard to do when the defense allows just 16 points.

[Grahamburn]

The Lions have one loss.

Not hard to do when the defense allows just 16 points.

You've officially cracked the code. Thank you.

[Sooner06]

No he's not. There's a long list of problems with this team and Baker aint one of them.

We have our QB for the foreseeable future which is pretty incredible when you look at what the Patriots have been post Brady vs the Bucs. They've already drafted two QBs in the top 15 while we simply scooped up Baker.

We have a franchise QB which means we're always a viable team..

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but two of those losses were in OT, and Baker never saw the field in either of those extra innings, no? Please explain how those were Baker's fault, because the last I checked, Baker doesn't play defense. just explain it in laymen's terms, because I'm not a professional football analyst like you.

[13F11B]

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but two of those losses were in OT, and Baker never saw the field in either of those extra innings, no? Please explain how those were Baker's fault, because the last I checked, Baker doesn't play defense. just explain it in laymen's terms, because I'm not a professional football analyst like you.

That was a mic drop moment. Bootz is looking a little flabbergasted.

[Bootz]

Baker brings stability to the position. But there is always going to be a ceiling. A relatively low ceiling. Coen knows this, which is why he's limited this passing game as much as he has. We're relegated to short, quick passes, screens, dump off, short hitches. Nothing down the field. Nothing in stride. No timing passes. No anticipatory throws. None of that. Once it's snuffed out, the result is what we saw the last couple of weeks.

We aren't beating the better teams with Baker at QB.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but two of those losses were in OT, and Baker never saw the field in either of those extra innings, no? Please explain how those were Baker's fault, because the last I checked, Baker doesn't play defense. just explain it in laymen's terms, because I'm not a professional football analyst like you.

Well let's see then.

Vs the Falcons, Baker did well in the 1st half. 2nd half, he only managed 2 FG drives. Are you saying 6 points is good enough to win a game in the 2nd half? He also managed 180 passing yards total in the game.

Vs the Chiefs, 31 pass attempts and 200 yards. Also managed 17 points before the final drive. Is that good enough?

I'm interested to see what the sentiment was during those games. Pretty sure we were kissing this much ass over mediocre offensive outputs.

[Sooner06]

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but two of those losses were in OT, and Baker never saw the field in either of those extra innings, no? Please explain how those were Baker's fault, because the last I checked, Baker doesn't play defense. just explain it in laymen's terms, because I'm not a professional football analyst like you.

Well let's see then.

Vs the Falcons, Baker did well in the 1st half. 2nd half, he only managed 2 FG drives. Are you saying 6 points is good enough to win a game in the 2nd half? He also managed 180 passing yards total in the game.

Vs the Chiefs, 31 pass attempts and 200 yards. Also managed 17 points before the final drive. Is that good enough?

I'm interested to see what the sentiment was during those games. Pretty sure we were kissing this much ass over mediocre offensive outputs.

Lol, this is not really an answer to my question, but whatever.

How many points did TB's defense give up in those 2nd halfs? I mean, I already know that TB's defense is giving up more 2nd half pts than any other team in the league, and has been since Week 3-4? But again, please explain how TB's utter lack of defensive production is Baker's responsibility. Inquiring minds would really like to know.


Also, TB scored 17 pts against KC in the 2nd half. You can count on two fingers the number of times that's happened to KC's defense this season. And just for context, KC's defense was top-2 scoring defense in the 2nd half. Might still be #1.

And while you seem to be unaware of it somehow, the entire league is talking about Coen's offense and Baker's MVP-level play, in spite of not having Evans and Godwin. Even your former GOAT QB, Tom Brady was effusive in his praise of Baker's play both times I saw him commenting on a TB game.

Bill Belichick himself was very complimentary about Baker's play and Coen's offense this season just a couple days ago.

Are you saying you're a better judge of talent and offensive scheme/playcalling than Brady and Bill? Should Tb be considering you as HC/OC/QB?

[Bootz]

Well let's see then.

Vs the Falcons, Baker did well in the 1st half. 2nd half, he only managed 2 FG drives. Are you saying 6 points is good enough to win a game in the 2nd half? He also managed 180 passing yards total in the game.

Vs the Chiefs, 31 pass attempts and 200 yards. Also managed 17 points before the final drive. Is that good enough?

I'm interested to see what the sentiment was during those games. Pretty sure we were kissing this much ass over mediocre offensive outputs.

Lol, this is not really an answer to my question, but whatever.

How many points did TB's defense give up in those 2nd halfs? I mean, I already know that TB's defense is giving up more 2nd half pts than any other team in the league, and has been since Week 3-4? But again, please explain how TB's utter lack of defensive production is Baker's responsibility. Inquiring minds would really like to know.


Also, TB scored 17 pts against KC in the 2nd half. You can count on two fingers the number of times that's happened to KC's defense this season. And just for context, KC's defense was top-2 scoring defense in the 2nd half. Might still be #1.

And while you seem to be unaware of it somehow, the entire league is talking about Coen's offense and Baker's MVP-level play, in spite of not having Evans and Godwin. Even your former GOAT QB, Tom Brady was effusive in his praise of Baker's play both times I saw him commenting on a TB game.

Bill Belichick himself was very complimentary about Baker's play and Coen's offense this season just a couple days ago.

Are you saying you're a better judge of talent and offensive scheme/playcalling than Brady and Bill? Should Tb be considering you as HC/OC/QB?

The defenses issues aren't on Baker at all. No one said that. But pretending dinking and dunking down the field, coming up short on drive after drive and waiting until late in games to make plays is good enough is a hilarious.

[Sooner06]

So last night I finally watched the A-22 of the game, and the reason Baker didn't throw down field more became pretty obvious rather quickly. I expected to see that Baker's protection broke down too quickly for him to even get to the deeper shots, and that did occur, the most obvious example was the spin-o-rama play, where if 68 blocks better Baker would've been able to throw that ball on time. But the spin to avoid pressure makes the throw late. Also, the receiver actually slows down after stacking the DB, which may have ruined the play as well, but that's harder to judge. However, protection issues weren't as pervasive as I thought they'd be over the course of the game.

Another issue that popped up multiple times was receivers not running the right routes. There are at least 4 times that two receivers run the same route or run routes that cancel each other out.

From the A-22 it appears that Baker missed at least 3 decent opportunities to throw the ball deep when he did have time. I'd say he just didn't see them for the most part, though one was clearly a screen pass and he never got his head turned to the left.

He missed 4 other passes due to poor timing or just inaccuracy.


However, consistently the most common two problems were that none of the WRs seem to know when/where to sit down in zone with any consistency and none seem to know how to make a sight adjustment. The WRs I'm referencing are 10, 18 and 81 in particular, though 17 wasn't much better. I'd have to say the difference was incremental at best.

You can actually see that Baker wanted to throw deep to all of these WRs at various times during the game, but they either ran themselves into coverage when the defense was playing zone or vs. man they didn't make the sight adjustment and break off the paper route and run the go or the skinny post or whatever. Meanwhile, Baker is double clutching in the pocket, obviously wanting to throw them the ball, but the WR isn't running to open space or doesn't sit down in the soft spot.

Now, I don't know any of these WRs very well, not even Shepard, because the last time I really watched him was in college at OU. But the most experienced aside from Shepard appears to be #10, Palmer, who is in just his 2nd year, correct? The other two (81/18) appear to be rooks? So I'd have to say that the problem with the downfield passing attack is inexperience. Palmer had at least one if not two chances to score a TD if he'd just made the correct sight adjustment, one early in the game and one late in the 2nd half.

The first one was just frustrating because it was so easy. It looks like the paper route was a deep corner or deep post-corner route. The Db played outside leverage, giving Trey the middle of the field, and the deep safety is on the other side of the field because of the trips formation on that side. This gave Trey a textbook opportunity to cancel the corner route as soon as he saw it was man coverage and run either just a go just outside the hash or a skinny post, which would've stacked the DB simultaneously preventing the S from ever getting into the play. And you can tell Baker sees it early and wants to throw it. He double hitches waiting to see if Trey runs the go or the skinny post, but Trey runs the paper route to the corner putting the DB back into a position to defend the pass, so Baker checks it down to whoever was the outlet short left.

In total, I counted at least 6 times that Coen's design should've created a deep shot opportunity in which Baker saw the chance and clearly wanted to throw those deep shots but his receivers didn't make the proper sight adjustment or didn't sit down when/where they should have.

Anyway, while watching the A-22, I wondered at one point if Baker should've just thrown to where the WR should've been (when it was safe to do so), just so the WR could see on the tablet where they were supposed to go/sit. I know Brady did things like that at times in NE.

Sidenote: I think the best zone receiver on the team besides Otton might actually be RB R. White. He seems to find the soft spots in zones with more consistency than just about every other receiver on the team not named Cade. He also is probably the best receiver during the scramble drill, imo. He just seems to find ways to make himself available more efficiently than any of the WRs, plus he's a big body and seems willing to catch the ball in tight windows and contested situations. I wonder if Coen should consider putting White in the slot more for that reason. It would take away snaps from one of the WRs, but I honestly don't think Miller is that valuable on the field anyway.


Anyway, that's my amateur analysis of the passing game vs. SF.

[Grahamburn]

Great analysis. I’ve wondered that on White too.

Maybe with the bye they can install something like that to use him even more as a receiver and then utilize Bucky/Tucker as the traditional RB committee.

Players, not plays.

[Sooner06]

Great analysis. I’ve wondered that on White too.

Maybe with the bye they can install something like that to use him even more as a receiver and then utilize Bucky/Tucker as the traditional RB committee.

Players, not plays.

I think there are a few questions that have to be answered regarding White. Such as, does he actually have a good enough release to take snaps away from one of the WRs. Is he able to run a complete enough route tree. Can he actually make sight adjustments. And what happens to the pass-pro if you take White out of the backfield on a regular basis? Things like that.

I mean, when I watch him run that angle route, his break is pretty darn good, better than a lot of RBs I've seen recently. And he catches the ball with his hands, where most RBs tend to catch with their bodies. And his scramble drill is really good for an RB, imo. He seems to instinctively know not only where to go but also how to angle himself to give the QB the best target. And he runs with really good pace in those situations.

But those questions, or at least several of them, would have to be answered before you could just put him in the slot as a primary target, imo. But it is a tantalizing idea.

[Sooner06]

Great analysis. I’ve wondered that on White too.

Maybe with the bye they can install something like that to use him even more as a receiver and then utilize Bucky/Tucker as the traditional RB committee.

Players, not plays.

I think there are a few questions that have to be answered regarding White. Such as, does he actually have a good enough release to take snaps away from one of the WRs? Is he able to run a complete enough route tree? Can he actually make sight adjustments? And what happens to the pass-pro if you take White out of the backfield on a regular basis? Things like that.

I mean, when I watch him run that angle route, his break is pretty darn good, better than a lot of RBs I've seen recently. And he catches the ball with his hands, where most RBs tend to catch with their bodies. And his scramble drill is really good for an RB, imo. He seems to instinctively know not only where to go but also how to angle himself to give the QB the best target. And he runs with really good pace in those situations.

But those questions, or at least several of them, would have to be answered before you could just put him in the slot as a primary target, imo. But it is a tantalizing idea.

[Grahamburn]

Every Baker TD for ya.