Todd Bowles is the problem

[Snake]

Admirable idea, but he’s bad as a HC and more time during the week won’t help the underlying reasons. Taking away his DC type responsibilities renders him utterly worthless.

[Phantom]

then he fucked...

[Grahamburn]

28th in points per game allowed

30th in yards per game allowed

29th in yards per play allowed

22nd in yards per pass allowed

30th in yards per rush allowed

[GreatTimes]

28th in points per game allowed

30th in yards per game allowed

29th in yards per play allowed

22nd in yards per pass allowed

30th in yards per rush allowed

Not a good recipe for success.

[Grahamburn]

28th in points per game allowed

30th in yards per game allowed

29th in yards per play allowed

22nd in yards per pass allowed

30th in yards per rush allowed

Not a good recipe for success.

All while having a top 5 offense.

[Phantom]

Nelson basically saved Bowles’s job, if not for his forced fumble; Bowles is on the hot seat.

His defense failed again at the last-minute touchdown. Young to Theilen, if I recall correctly.

[acmillis]

Nelson basically saved Bowles’s job, if not for his forced fumble; Bowles is on the hot seat.

His defense failed again at the last-minute touchdown. Young to Theilen, if I recall correctly.

You're just going to ignore the offensive struggles of the first three quarters, especially the two horribad INTs by Baker?

[Bootz]

Nelson basically saved Bowles’s job, if not for his forced fumble; Bowles is on the hot seat.

His defense failed again at the last-minute touchdown. Young to Theilen, if I recall correctly.

You're just going to ignore the offensive struggles of the first three quarters, especially the two horribad INTs by Baker?

It doesn't fit the narrative so of course people are gonna ignore Baker struggling against the worst defense in football.

[Grahamburn]

You're just going to ignore the offensive struggles of the first three quarters, especially the two horribad INTs by Baker?

It doesn't fit the narrative so of course people are gonna ignore Baker struggling against the worst defense in football.

More than one thing can be true, guys.

Baker struggled for 3 quarters. Bowles’ D gave up yet another go ahead TD with the game in their hands. Baker and then Nelson bailed him out.

All true.

[Bootz]

It doesn't fit the narrative so of course people are gonna ignore Baker struggling against the worst defense in football.

More than one thing can be true, guys.

Baker struggled for 3 quarters. Bowles’ D gave up yet another go ahead TD with the game in their hands. Baker and then Nelson bailed him out.

All true.

Then the discussion needs to be had. What play did Bowles call that was wrong?

[Sdbucs]

Here's a ballpark estimate for how a coach is performing:

How does the talent compare to the league, and how are the results comparing to the rest of the league.

Our defense is:
28th in points per game allowed

30th in yards per game allowed

29th in yards per play allowed

22nd in yards per pass allowed

30th in yards per rush allowed

So would you put our cumulative defensive talent at ~28th in the league? IF you think we're more talented than that, Bowles is the problem. If not, then we just need more talent.

From watching the games, we continue to leave guys wide wide open. Is that the players fault or the schemes fault?
PFF has us at #30 in tackling. Are missed tackles players faults or a coaching fault?

[mdb1958]

Here's a ballpark estimate for how a coach is performing:

How does the talent compare to the league, and how are the results comparing to the rest of the league.

Our defense is:
28th in points per game allowed

30th in yards per game allowed

29th in yards per play allowed

22nd in yards per pass allowed

30th in yards per rush allowed

So would you put our cumulative defensive talent at ~28th in the league? IF you think we're more talented than that, Bowles is the problem. If not, then we just need more talent.

From watching the games, we continue to leave guys wide wide open. Is that the players fault or the schemes fault?
PFF has us at #30 in tackling. Are missed tackles players faults or a coaching fault?

You should go over these numbers.

[Phantom]

Added:

Career-High Completions For Bryce Young
December 1st, 2024
So the Bucs had only one official pass defensed today, a huge one by Zyon McCollum, while sad Panthers quarterback Bryce Young had a career high 26 completions and 20 incompletions.

What happened?

All together now, “Soft zone meets no edge rush.”

Joe is aging rapidly through this gut-wrenching Bucs season. The way the Bucs make so many quarterbacks look special is astounding.

Consider that Kirk Cousins has thrown 9 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions in the 10 games he’s played that were not against Tampa Bay. Versus the Bucs, Cousins has 8 TD throws and 1 interception through two Falcons victories.

Does anyone think that’s a coincidence?

Joe was hopeful today with Calijah Kancey and Vita Vea entering the game hot and the Bucs having starting cornerbacks Jamel Dean and Zyon McCollum back healthy for the second consecutive game. But the pass defense was the same old sad story, though it looked slighly less ugly because the Panthers’ have subpar receivers overall.

Joe admits that losing safety Mike Edwards early in the game (hamstring) looked like a significant loss since Edwards had made a couple of plays, but that’s a bit of a reach.

If the Bucs hope to do anything special this season, Todd Bowles has to re-think his soft-zone, off-coverage pass defense.

[Jonny]

Since the Liam Coen exit, Bowles won us over with his integrity, maturity, machismo and importantly (for me) him schooling bitch ass liberal ESPN reporter making a big deal about him being black (the same bitch that got offended when Baker made fun of Tommy Cutlets). Bowles looks pissed off this year, he's also developed a sense of humor, man is throwing F bombs around. He is on a mission.

This weekend us Bucs fans will begin the campaign for Todd Bowles for Coach of the Year. Mostly love what I'm seeing from the defense, except for Dennis. We will open a can of whoop ass on Eagles O and the Bowles national media love affair will start soon after.

In Bowles I trust.

[__Chef__]

Since the Liam Coen exit, Bowles won us over with his integrity, maturity, machismo and importantly (for me) him schooling bitch ass liberal ESPN reporter making a big deal about him being black (the same bitch that got offended when Baker made fun of Tommy Cutlets). Bowles looks pissed off this year, he's also developed a sense of humor, man is throwing F bombs around. He is on a mission.

This weekend us Bucs fans will begin the campaign for Todd Bowles for Coach of the Year. Mostly love what I'm seeing from the defense, except for Dennis. We will open a can of whoop ass on Eagles O and the Bowles national media love affair will start soon after.

In Bowles I trust.

The nice thing about this year vs last year is the offense isn't glaringly better than the defense. That and we're 3-0.

[BuccaNOLEer]

Since the Liam Coen exit, Bowles won us over with his integrity, maturity, machismo and importantly (for me) him schooling bitch ass liberal ESPN reporter making a big deal about him being black (the same bitch that got offended when Baker made fun of Tommy Cutlets). Bowles looks pissed off this year, he's also developed a sense of humor, man is throwing F bombs around. He is on a mission.

This weekend us Bucs fans will begin the campaign for Todd Bowles for Coach of the Year. Mostly love what I'm seeing from the defense, except for Dennis. We will open a can of whoop ass on Eagles O and the Bowles national media love affair will start soon after.

In Bowles I trust.

The nice thing about this year vs last year is the offense isn't glaringly better than the defense. That and we're 3-0.

Only reason for the offense not being glaringly better is key pieces are missing. We already started the season being down two of our top for receivers and our best O-Lineman. Now two more lineman are hurt and our best receiver as well.

[__Chef__]

The nice thing about this year vs last year is the offense isn't glaringly better than the defense. That and we're 3-0.

Only reason for the offense not being glaringly better is key pieces are missing. We already started the season being down two of our top for receivers and our best O-Lineman. Now two more lineman are hurt and our best receiver as well.

I don't know if I'd say that's the "only reason", but injuries are indeed a significant factor.

[Phantom]

What was the reason for bumping this thread? Initially, I thought something had happened to Bowles, like fired.

[Grahamburn]

What was the reason for bumping this thread? Initially, I thought something had happened to Bowles, like fired.

He got an extension in the off-season and we're 3-0. You think this thread was bumped because he got fired?

[Bootz]

What was the reason for bumping this thread? Initially, I thought something had happened to Bowles, like fired.

He got an extension in the off-season and we're 3-0. You think this thread was bumped because he got fired?

Reboot needed apparently

[Central_Buc]

Since the Liam Coen exit, Bowles won us over with his integrity, maturity, machismo and importantly (for me) him schooling bitch ass liberal ESPN reporter making a big deal about him being black (the same bitch that got offended when Baker made fun of Tommy Cutlets). Bowles looks pissed off this year, he's also developed a sense of humor, man is throwing F bombs around. He is on a mission.

This weekend us Bucs fans will begin the campaign for Todd Bowles for Coach of the Year. Mostly love what I'm seeing from the defense, except for Dennis. We will open a can of whoop ass on Eagles O and the Bowles national media love affair will start soon after.

In Bowles I trust.

Ladies and germs, I give you Jonny Lawrence!

[13F11B]

Since the Liam Coen exit, Bowles won us over with his integrity, maturity, machismo and importantly (for me) him schooling bitch ass liberal ESPN reporter making a big deal about him being black (the same bitch that got offended when Baker made fun of Tommy Cutlets). Bowles looks pissed off this year, he's also developed a sense of humor, man is throwing F bombs around. He is on a mission.

This weekend us Bucs fans will begin the campaign for Todd Bowles for Coach of the Year. Mostly love what I'm seeing from the defense, except for Dennis. We will open a can of whoop ass on Eagles O and the Bowles national media love affair will start soon after.

In Bowles I trust.

Ladies and germs, I give you Jonny Lawrence!

[Nobody]

Just wanted to point out that Coach Bowles has been great this year both in terms of defensive playcalling (save for like 3 sequences I haven’t loved) and in terms of game management (both the subtle, intricate things and the big macro things).

He was again very good today and not even close to being in the equation as one of the reasons we lost. He’s incrementally improved the last few years and he has definitely taken a nice jump through 2025’s first four games. Four games and the consistency of being right in the little things (things that optimize for maximizing your drives per half and minimizing opponents’) aren’t a fluke. We have an upgraded coach. That is all you can ask from someone. Get good. Get better. Stack.

Good stuff.

[Doctor]

Homer

[Primeminister]

Just wanted to point out that Coach Bowles has been great this year both in terms of defensive playcalling (save for like 3 sequences I haven’t loved) and in terms of game management (both the subtle, intricate things and the big macro things).

He was again very good today and not even close to being in the equation as one of the reasons we lost. He’s incrementally improved the last few years and he has definitely taken a nice jump through 2025’s first four games. Four games and the consistency of being right in the little things (things that optimize for maximizing your drives per half and minimizing opponents’) aren’t a fluke. We have an upgraded coach. That is all you can ask from someone. Get good. Get better. Stack.

Good stuff.

If you have the time I would love to know what Bowles is doing to evolve the defense throughout each game. Teams score early before Bowles seems to get a bead on what they’re doing & shutting it down. I would love to know more technically what’s happening in the scheme.

[Nobody]

Just wanted to point out that Coach Bowles has been great this year both in terms of defensive playcalling (save for like 3 sequences I haven’t loved) and in terms of game management (both the subtle, intricate things and the big macro things).

He was again very good today and not even close to being in the equation as one of the reasons we lost. He’s incrementally improved the last few years and he has definitely taken a nice jump through 2025’s first four games. Four games and the consistency of being right in the little things (things that optimize for maximizing your drives per half and minimizing opponents’) aren’t a fluke. We have an upgraded coach. That is all you can ask from someone. Get good. Get better. Stack.

Good stuff.

If you have the time I would love to know what Bowles is doing to evolve the defense throughout each game. Teams score early before Bowles seems to get a bead on what they’re doing & shutting it down. I would love to know more technically what’s happening in the scheme.

Historically or this season?

[Primeminister]

If you have the time I would love to know what Bowles is doing to evolve the defense throughout each game. Teams score early before Bowles seems to get a bead on what they’re doing & shutting it down. I would love to know more technically what’s happening in the scheme.

Historically or this season?

This season

[Nobody]

Historically or this season?

This season

This season:

1) Teams are having a high rate of success vs our blitz in the first half. Further, they're getting some drive-changing explosives due to busts or bad leverage losses (like SVD's week 1 vs Robinson). This has always been the case. My guess is that team's week preparation and script is, unsurprisingly, blitz-package focused and therefore is optimizing for handling and taking advantage of our blitzes.

2) Coach Bowles tends to save his exotics (Twists/Stunts/Blitzes/DB activation/Coverage Rotations/Combos) for the second half.

3) It also seems to me that our guys tend to struggle tackling early and get better in the second half. That has long been an issue.

However...

We're playing pretty solid defense in half 1. On defense, it’s 10 points vs Falcons, 10 points vs Texans, 6 points vs Jets, 17 points vs Eagles (despite an offense doing nothing and a shanked punt). Removing that Punt Block TD and we're basically middle of the pack in terms of NFL Team Defense 1st half points given up. It hasn't been great, but it hasn't been horrendous.

Couple more thoughts:

* Our success rate on the blitz is not great. Success rate-wise, just looking at the numbers on the dashboard without running all the numbers, we seem to always have a higher success rate just playing staple coverage/front with a mild rotation/disguise in there.

* Our negative play generation rate on the blitz is also not great. It is much better than our orthodox defense rate, for sure. But that isn't some kind of solace to take. I would say the reason for this paradigm is because Bowles' defenses don't draft and rely upon the easiest way to reliably and frequently generate negative plays; draft edge-bending, speed rushing studs and unleash them. The most success this defense has had was, unsurprisingly, apex Barrett. He dominated the regular season, the postseason, and he dominated the Super Bowl (where KC was without both of their OTs...which was basically the story of that game).

* So if you can't dominate on the edge and you have to manufacture negative plays all the time, you better have an incredible defensive backfield that covers extreme well, reads > chases > tackles extremely well, challenges catch points well, is confident, and makes plays. We finally have that. We've drafted the right guys there and it is showing. It is showing in their alignments (the willingness to play a step or two forward while in off coverage...the difference between a 4-5 yard cushion and a 6-8 yard cushion is absolutely enormous vs the modern NFL quick game). We are playing much more aggressively in our alignments, in our calls, and post-snap. That is showing up big time in the tape and in the results.

[mdb1958]

This season

This season:

1) Teams are having a high rate of success vs our blitz in the first half. Further, they're getting some drive-changing explosives due to busts or bad leverage losses (like SVD's week 1 vs Robinson). This has always been the case. My guess is that team's week preparation and script is, unsurprisingly, blitz-package focused and therefore is optimizing for handling and taking advantage of our blitzes.

2) Coach Bowles tends to save his exotics (Twists/Stunts/Blitzes/DB activation/Coverage Rotations/Combos) for the second half.

3) It also seems to me that our guys tend to struggle tackling early and get better in the second half. That has long been an issue.

However...

We're playing pretty solid defense in half 1. On defense, it’s 10 points vs Falcons, 10 points vs Texans, 6 points vs Jets, 17 points vs Eagles (despite an offense doing nothing and a shanked punt). Removing that Punt Block TD and we're basically middle of the pack in terms of NFL Team Defense 1st half points given up. It hasn't been great, but it hasn't been horrendous.

Couple more thoughts:

* Our success rate on the blitz is not great. Success rate-wise, just looking at the numbers on the dashboard without running all the numbers, we seem to always have a higher success rate just playing staple coverage/front with a mild rotation/disguise in there.

* Our negative play generation rate on the blitz is also not great. It is much better than our orthodox defense rate, for sure. But that isn't some kind of solace to take. I would say the reason for this paradigm is because Bowles' defenses don't draft and rely upon the easiest way to reliably and frequently generate negative plays; draft edge-bending, speed rushing studs and unleash them. The most success this defense has had was, unsurprisingly, apex Barrett. He dominated the regular season, the postseason, and he dominated the Super Bowl (where KC was without both of their OTs...which was basically the story of that game).

* So if you can't dominate on the edge and you have to manufacture negative plays all the time, you better have an incredible defensive backfield that covers extreme well, reads > chases > tackles extremely well, challenges catch points well, is confident, and makes plays. We finally have that. We've drafted the right guys there and it is showing. It is showing in their alignments (the willingness to play a step or two forward while in off coverage...the difference between a 4-5 yard cushion and a 6-8 yard cushion is absolutely enormous vs the modern NFL quick game). We are playing much more aggressively in our alignments, in our calls, and post-snap. That is showing up big time in the tape and in the results.

Yeah I thought our pass defense has improved and thats with green rookies and I have a mind to think the green players from last year have improved. Or have a chance to due to getting playing experience.

10th in pass defense
5th in rush defense
4th overall

scoring defense slipped to 20th

[Phantom]

Defense the last 3 games.

27 points allowed
24 points allowed
35 points allowed.

Trending in the wrong direction.

[bucarican]

Defense the last 3 games.

27 points allowed
24 points allowed
35 points allowed.

Trending in the wrong direction.

4 Key starters out, including the man that causes the disruption in the middle. Reddick might not be the guy on the edge we need.

[BuccaNOLEer]

4 Key starters out, including the man that causes the disruption in the middle. Reddick might not be the guy on the edge we need.

No excuses. We need a pair of bookend edge rushers and another run stuffing DT or hope Big Dez develops

[bucarican]

4 Key starters out, including the man that causes the disruption in the middle. Reddick might not be the guy on the edge we need.

No excuses. We need a pair of bookend edge rushers and another run stuffing DT or hope Big Dez develops

No excuses at all, but to say Bowles is the problem is not fair. He saved that blitz that caused the INT for the perfect situation, and it happened. He has the corners playing at a high level, but they can't cover for 20 mins, and Dennis is not playing well in coverage.

Last yr I would say he was very conservative at times.

[BuccaNOLEer]

No excuses. We need a pair of bookend edge rushers and another run stuffing DT or hope Big Dez develops

No excuses at all, but to say Bowles is the problem is not fair. He saved that blitz that caused the INT for the perfect situation, and it happened. He has the corners playing at a high level, but they can't cover for 20 mins, and Dennis is not playing well in coverage.

Last yr I would say he was very conservative at times.

I never said Bowles was the problem. My issue with Bowles is that he comes across as softer than baby shit. And that's not the type of coach that wins a Super Bowl.

That being said, we won that game because Seattle got cute. They could've and should've run out the clock and taken their chances in OT because whoever got the ball first would win the game (neither side could stop the other). Instead, Sam Darnold was typical Sam Darnold. He floated the ball out there with the game on the line and it got picked.

[Grahamburn]

No excuses at all, but to say Bowles is the problem is not fair. He saved that blitz that caused the INT for the perfect situation, and it happened. He has the corners playing at a high level, but they can't cover for 20 mins, and Dennis is not playing well in coverage.

Last yr I would say he was very conservative at times.

I never said Bowles was the problem. My issue with Bowles is that he comes across as softer than baby shit. And that's not the type of coach that wins a Super Bowl.

That being said, we won that game because Seattle got cute. They could've and should've run out the clock and taken their chances in OT because whoever got the ball first would win the game (neither side could stop the other). Instead, Sam Darnold was typical Sam Darnold. He floated the ball out there with the game on the line and it got picked.

Seattle had scored TDs on like 5 straight drives. You think they're going to run the clock out with over a minute left?