Bowles Defense - Make it Better

[__Chef__]

Compiled stats since Bowles got here paint a picture of disappointing mediocrity with a few notable standouts:

Year	Sks (r)	Int (r)	PBU	Yards (r)	Pass (r)	Points (r)
2019	47 (16)	12 (29)	95	5503 (15)	4647 (29)	449 (29)
2020	48 (8)	15 (8)	76	5234 (6)	4311 (22)	355 (6)
2021	47 (5)	17 (5)	74	5635 (13)	4347 (21)	353 (5)
2022	45 (13)	10 (13)	56	5513 (9)	3792 (11)	358 (13)
2023	48 (16)	13 (7)	64	5852 (23)	4568 (29)	325 (7)
2024	46 (16)	7 (16)	60	5810 (18)	4464 (29)	385 (16)

Top ten in sacks twice, but consistently between 45 and 48 annually, just a matter of what we're giving up in coverage to get them.

Ints and PBUs have seen a dramatic fall off.

Yards overall have been consistently mediocre, but passing yards allowed have only been near top ten once. The rest of the time, it's been the bottom 10.

Points allowed from bottom 10, to top 10, back to mediocre.

We've got who we got as far as roster is concerned. I don't think we'll see much change there.

What schematically could we change to see these numbers improve and have a legitimate shot at fielding a championship caliber defense?

[Doctor]

I know it's a hard sell, but I cannot bang the drum hard enough for how much chemistry is going to make a huge difference.

If you have all the ingredients make a great drink when stirred, you don't have to revamp the recipe because your spoon broke. Our secondary went into the postseason having played 14 snaps together.

We had no business being mid last year. I can't tell you how many other years that would've been a 32nd ranked defense. And getting good, really good, isn't far away because so many of our failures last year were single points if weakness breaks. A poor assignment, alignment, or communication.

Trust the process.



This group of guys are talented. Any combination with hundreds of snaps together across months will be a force come winter. Reddick at 75% would be the catalyst we've been waiting for to set off the rest of the defense. Dean actually catches the balls that hit his hands just last year alone, no one is talking about moving on from him.

I feel similar to when people weren't buying into us early with Brady or Baker. Don't have to believe me, just watch. I'll be here to high five you when you're ready.

[Phantom]

Don’t let your hope die.

[Grahamburn]

Counting on Dean to catch the ball is like counting on Jameis to stop throwing INTs.

All coaches need great players to be successful, but it’s a must for Bowles.

Coen was able to scheme around injuries last year and still be successful. Bowles isn’t really capable of it that I’ve seen.

He’s got a little more depth now at CB so that’s positive. Maybe those guys catch on quickly.

Added Reddick wanting a long term deal. Zyon and Logan Hall in contract years.

They should be hungry at least.

[Pirate Life]

Compiled stats since Bowles got here paint a picture of disappointing mediocrity with a few notable standouts:

Year	Sacks (r)	Ints (r)	PBU	Yards (r)	Pass (r)	Points (r)
2019	47 (16)	12 (29)	95	5503 (15)	4647 (29)	449 (29)
2020	48 (8)	15 (8)	76	5234 (6)	4311 (22)	355 (6)
2021	47 (5)	17 (5)	74	5635 (13)	4347 (21)	353 (5)
2022	45 (13)	10 (13)	56	5513 (9)	3792 (11)	358 (13)
2023	48 (16)	13 (7)	64	5852 (23)	4568 (29)	325 (7)
2024	46 (16)	7 (16)	60	5810 (18)	4464 (29)	385 (16)

Top ten in sacks twice, but consistently between 45 and 48 annually, just a matter of what we're giving up in coverage to get them.

Ints and PBUs have seen a dramatic fall off.

Yards overall have been consistently mediocre, but passing yards allowed have only been near top ten once. The rest of the time, it's been the bottom 10.

Points allowed from bottom 10, to top 10, back to mediocre.

We've got who we got as far as roster is concerned. I don't think we'll see much change there.

What schematically could we change to see these numbers improve and have a legitimate shot at fielding a championship caliber defense?

Passing yards will always be problematic for Bowles' defense over the course of the season. He wants to stop the run and is willing to give up passing yards between the 20's. Bend but don't break defenses tend to be this way. Injuries also haven't helped, since 2019 total games missed by all DBs (starters and backups) is 217, or on average DBs missing 36 games a season.That doesn't help with communication or chemistry, which has been an issue during Bowles' tenure here. We also haven't had a lot of ball hawks back there. Davis and Dean over the vast majority of those seasons likely have the worst hands of any two starting CBs in the NFL. One of the things I loved about the two kids we got in this draft.

Bowles also seems to favor raw, quick edge rushers over ones that have shown they can bend the arc to get to the QB that may be a step slow speed-wise (that is until this draft with Walker). Once Barrett lost a step and his ability to time snaps, the pass rush really suffered with a bunch of guys who can go straight pretty quick, but are easily forced to overrun or redirected away. JTS never developed any other pass rush tools beyond his speed rush, Diaby's tool bag is pretty empty, he can bull rush and is quick, but doesn't seem to know how to use his hands very well. Light may have come on for Braswell at the end of the season, we'll see how it goes this year.

Honestly though, I think a lot of the problem is Bowles needs to learn from Arians. Be a head coach first, have someone else be the defensive coordinator. But keep your hand in it by going over the game plan and making a few tweaks. Bucs as a team need to beef up their analytics department as well, unless things have changed since early last season it's a one person department.

[Doctor]

Bowles likes to use that part off the field for higher risk it biscuit plays. Ones that can steal momentum. Then buckle down if they get too close.

[Grahamburn]

That’s a poor strategy when you have an elite offense. Getting bled to death all game is how you lose to Washington without forcing a punt.

Make them complete deep throws. Giving the easy stuff up and down the field is maddening.

Maybe that changes if we have some guys that can get to the QB without blitzing?

[Central_Buc]

If TJ Watt and the Steelers don't come to a deal some think we could be a landing spot.

I take it with a grain of salt because I think Watt will resign in Pittsburgh.

I also think it's worth looking into if you are Licht.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/pit ... c68e1e0700

[Doctor]

Holy shit, that would be the grand slam everyone is dreaming about.

Tomlin is one of the few coaches to rack up more sacks than Bowles, but TJ also makes up the biggest chunk of any single players team total. To bring him here would be insane.

[__Chef__]

If TJ Watt and the Steelers don't come to a deal some think we could be a landing spot.

I take it with a grain of salt because I think Watt will resign in Pittsburgh.

I also think it's worth looking into if you are Licht.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/pit ... c68e1e0700

This move would make zero sense for a team that is pushing all their chips in on a championship run. This smells of agent manipulation.

[Central_Buc]

If TJ Watt and the Steelers don't come to a deal some think we could be a landing spot.

I take it with a grain of salt because I think Watt will resign in Pittsburgh.

I also think it's worth looking into if you are Licht.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/pit ... c68e1e0700

This move would make zero sense for a team that is pushing all their chips in on a championship run. This smells of agent manipulation.

The Steelers in a championship run? They haven't won a playoff game in 9 years.

The whole AR situation is nothing more than to keep the team a float to prevent them from going a game below .500 to keep Tomlins streak alive.

You may say DK Metcalf was a good add but they dumped Pickens so did they really get better?

[__Chef__]

This move would make zero sense for a team that is pushing all their chips in on a championship run. This smells of agent manipulation.

The Steelers in a championship run? They haven't won a playoff game in 9 years.

The whole AR situation is nothing more than to keep the team a float to prevent them from going a game below .500 to keep Tomlins streak alive.

You may say DK Metcalf was a good add but they dumped Pickens so did they really get better?

If they were just going on "let's get by" they would have kept Russel Wilson. They didn't. This is Mike Tomlin pushing his chips to the center of the table. All in.

[Doctor]

Bowles defense has 281 sacks since he's got to Tampa, second only to the Steelers 292.

Watt has 88 of those.
Shaq leads us with 45.

[__Chef__]

I know it's a hard sell, but I cannot bang the drum hard enough for how much chemistry is going to make a huge difference.

If you have all the ingredients make a great drink when stirred, you don't have to revamp the recipe because your spoon broke. Our secondary went into the postseason having played 14 snaps together.

We had no business being mid last year. I can't tell you how many other years that would've been a 32nd ranked defense. And getting good, really good, isn't far away because so many of our failures last year were single points if weakness breaks. A poor assignment, alignment, or communication.

Trust the process.



This group of guys are talented. Any combination with hundreds of snaps together across months will be a force come winter. Reddick at 75% would be the catalyst we've been waiting for to set off the rest of the defense. Dean actually catches the balls that hit his hands just last year alone, no one is talking about moving on from him.

I feel similar to when people weren't buying into us early with Brady or Baker. Don't have to believe me, just watch. I'll be here to high five you when you're ready.

I'm going to sound like a hater, but I'm not sold on Reddick making a substantial difference. I just don't see it. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say snap for snap, Braswell, Diaby or Walker will make more of an impact on rushing the passer than Reddick.

[Central_Buc]

The Steelers in a championship run? They haven't won a playoff game in 9 years.

The whole AR situation is nothing more than to keep the team a float to prevent them from going a game below .500 to keep Tomlins streak alive.

You may say DK Metcalf was a good add but they dumped Pickens so did they really get better?

If they were just going on "let's get by" they would have kept Russel Wilson. They didn't. This is Mike Tomlin pushing his chips to the center of the table. All in.

I can't say I know much about their draft but stranger things have happened. It still looks Cincinnati and Baltimore have a upper hand on the division though

[Grahamburn]

Oh brother. TJ Watt isn’t going anywhere.

[Grahamburn]

Hendrickson is a legit all in move though and a true possibility.

Sounds like the Bengals want a 1st and Trey wants $35M+ a year and a long term deal. He’s 30 when the season starts.

Worth it?

[Grahamburn]

Jalen Ramsey also on the trading block.

[Central_Buc]

Jalen Ramsay also on the trading block.

I'm tempted to go Ramsey to strengthen the depth in the secondary. One of the reasons we lost to Washington was not having a healthy secondary at the end of the game. I think we fixed it this year and Ramsey would just add another layer.

[mdb1958]

Jalen Ramsey also on the trading block.

This team needs to acquire draft picks not get rid of them.

[Grahamburn]

Jalen Ramsay also on the trading block.

I'm tempted to go Ramsey to strengthen the depth in the secondary. One of the reasons we lost to Washington was not having a healthy secondary at the end of the game. I think we fixed it this year and Ramsey would just add another layer.

Can he play safety? Or are you moving Dean in the deal?

If he can play safety then you can leave Tykee at NB. All of a sudden you have a really deep secondary and the rookies aren’t forced to play right away.

I don’t think they’ll do anything though. Hendrickson nor Ramsey. Not really Licht’s style.

[Grahamburn]

Jalen Ramsey also on the trading block.

This team needs to acquire draft picks not get rid of them.

They’ve hit on so many picks the last couple years. It makes sense to widen your window by bringing in known veteran commodities.

It’s how we won so many games and a championship in 2020-2021.

Build the core through the draft. Add vets to bolster the roster.

I don’t miss that 3rd rounder we gave up for JPP or the 4th rounder we gave up for Gronk? Do you?

[Grahamburn]

Ramsey honestly comes pretty cheap. Both in contract and draft pick compensation.

[Bootz]

This isn't rocket science. The drop off in production coincides with the drop off in talent. Bowles didn't forget how to coach football. We haven't been able to adequately replace all of the talent lost during the early 2020s. Sure there's a lot of hype surrounding a lot of them simply because Jason Licht drafted them and to some here whatever he does is gospel truth. But that hype has yet to materialize for quite a few of them. You can literally go player by player.

Suh > Cancey
2019-2021 Vea=2022-2024 Vea
Gholston = Hall
Shaq > Diaby
JPP > JTS/Nelson
2019-2021 LVD > 2022-2024 LVD
Devin White > KJ Britt/Sirvocea Dennis
CD3 > McCollum
2019-2021 Dean > 2022-2024 Dean
SMB > Izien
2019-2021 Whitehead > Whoever has been there since he left the 1st time.

AWJ is a hard one. 2023 was by far his best season, but 2024 was his worst. Before that, if we're being honest, it's was a mixed bag. His rookie year he was great, but a lot of that can be attributed to the talent he was surrounded by. 2021 he was great as well. But 2022 he had a significant drop-off in his performance.

Point being, if we can ever develop or find better caliber players, it stands to reason the D will improve. Riddick is a start. I'm not sold on Dennis and no one can tell me why I should be. I'm not sold on moving Tykee to safety. We have to hope Parrish learns how to play inside quickly. A lot of variables moving forward for this defense.

[mdb1958]

This isn't rocket science. The drop off in production coincides with the drop off in talent. Bowles didn't forget how to coach football. We haven't been able to adequately replace all of the talent lost during the early 2020s. Sure there's a lot of hype surrounding a lot of them simply because Jason Licht drafted them and to some here whatever he does is gospel truth. But that hype has yet to materialize for quite a few of them. You can literally go player by player.

Suh > Cancey
2019-2021 Vea=2022-2024 Vea
Gholston = Hall
Shaq > Diaby
JPP > JTS/Nelson
2019-2021 LVD > 2022-2024 LVD
Devin White > KJ Britt/Sirvocea Dennis
CD3 > McCollum
2019-2021 Dean > 2022-2024 Dean
SMB > Izien
2019-2021 Whitehead > Whoever has been there since he left the 1st time.

AWJ is a hard one. 2023 was by far his best season, but 2024 was his worst. Before that, if we're being honest, it's was a mixed bag. His rookie year he was great, but a lot of that can be attributed to the talent he was surrounded by. 2021 he was great as well. But 2022 he had a significant drop-off in his performance.

Point being, if we can ever develop or find better caliber players, it stands to reason the D will improve. Riddick is a start. I'm not sold on Dennis and no one can tell me why I should be. I'm not sold on moving Tykee to safety. We have to hope Parrish learns how to play inside quickly. A lot of variables moving forward for this defense.

So your whole post hinges on talent available. Till then it's next man up, right?


edit: drop off on talent available.

[Bootz]

This isn't rocket science. The drop off in production coincides with the drop off in talent. Bowles didn't forget how to coach football. We haven't been able to adequately replace all of the talent lost during the early 2020s. Sure there's a lot of hype surrounding a lot of them simply because Jason Licht drafted them and to some here whatever he does is gospel truth. But that hype has yet to materialize for quite a few of them. You can literally go player by player.

Suh > Cancey
2019-2021 Vea=2022-2024 Vea
Gholston = Hall
Shaq > Diaby
JPP > JTS/Nelson
2019-2021 LVD > 2022-2024 LVD
Devin White > KJ Britt/Sirvocea Dennis
CD3 > McCollum
2019-2021 Dean > 2022-2024 Dean
SMB > Izien
2019-2021 Whitehead > Whoever has been there since he left the 1st time.

AWJ is a hard one. 2023 was by far his best season, but 2024 was his worst. Before that, if we're being honest, it's was a mixed bag. His rookie year he was great, but a lot of that can be attributed to the talent he was surrounded by. 2021 he was great as well. But 2022 he had a significant drop-off in his performance.

Point being, if we can ever develop or find better caliber players, it stands to reason the D will improve. Riddick is a start. I'm not sold on Dennis and no one can tell me why I should be. I'm not sold on moving Tykee to safety. We have to hope Parrish learns how to play inside quickly. A lot of variables moving forward for this defense.

So your whole post hinges on talent available. Till then it's next man up, right?

Pretty much. It's also about finding players that fit the system. We've gotten away from that a bit. I like Kancey, but I dont think he fits what Bowles traditionally looks for in down linemen. He generally prefers bigger guys who can eat up blockers and open lanes for his blitzes. Those guys also help with the run, which minimizes the amount of time you have to sell out to stop it. I have my doubts about Riddick fitting in as an edge rusher for Bowles. I'm in the minority but IMO I believe we'll see him moved inside at some point of the season. Hall fits the profile but he just isn't a good football player.

Once we get back to finding guys that fit the scheme, I think you'll see an improvement.

[Central_Buc]

I'm tempted to go Ramsey to strengthen the depth in the secondary. One of the reasons we lost to Washington was not having a healthy secondary at the end of the game. I think we fixed it this year and Ramsey would just add another layer.

Can he play safety? Or are you moving Dean in the deal?

If he can play safety then you can leave Tykee at NB. All of a sudden you have a really deep secondary and the rookies aren’t forced to play right away.

I don’t think they’ll do anything though. Hendrickson nor Ramsey. Not really Licht’s style.

If we did get him im sure he could but we are lacking in CB. I thought earlier this offseason they said they wanted to give Tykee Smith reps there and it sounds like Shilo Sanders is having a good camp from what I hear. Whitehead had a down year but I expect him to be better this year.

I would preferably keep Dean this last season if possible but if not because of a number crunch (both cap and roster wise) then yeah why not throw him in the deal for Ramsey?

[Doctor]

June is an odd time to go "all in" in FA. Unless the contract is wild, which I really doubt, this is just a regular Thursday for Pittsburgh, who do not believe in ever wasting a season not competing.

The Reddick concerns are valid. But Bowles has been making chicken salad out of JAGS for years. It's alao why I set the bar at just 75%, that alone moves the needle tremendously for us.

[Grahamburn]

Bowles' chicken salad tastes like shit.

[mdb1958]

Can he play safety? Or are you moving Dean in the deal?

If he can play safety then you can leave Tykee at NB. All of a sudden you have a really deep secondary and the rookies aren’t forced to play right away.

I don’t think they’ll do anything though. Hendrickson nor Ramsey. Not really Licht’s style.

If we did get him im sure he could but we are lacking in CB. I thought earlier this offseason they said they wanted to give Tykee Smith reps there and it sounds like Shilo Sanders is having a good camp from what I hear. Whitehead had a down year but I expect him to be better this year.

I would preferably keep Dean this last season if possible but if not because of a number crunch (both cap and roster wise) then yeah why not throw him in the deal for Ramsey?

Whitehead's gone. Insert a new name, JJ Roberts.

[Central_Buc]

If we did get him im sure he could but we are lacking in CB. I thought earlier this offseason they said they wanted to give Tykee Smith reps there and it sounds like Shilo Sanders is having a good camp from what I hear. Whitehead had a down year but I expect him to be better this year.

I would preferably keep Dean this last season if possible but if not because of a number crunch (both cap and roster wise) then yeah why not throw him in the deal for Ramsey?

Whitehead's gone. Insert a new name, JJ Roberts.

I thought he signed a 2 year deal, but im just now finding out the Bucs didn't pick up his option.

[Doctor]

Ramsey honestly comes pretty cheap. Both in contract and draft pick compensation.

Define cheap.

[Grahamburn]

Ramsey honestly comes pretty cheap. Both in contract and draft pick compensation.

Define cheap.

In comparison to other top corners he’s cheap. $16M cap hit this year. Miami may also be willing to eat some of it to help facilitate a trade?

They’ve already paid his roster bonus and he has another $19M bonus coming if he’s on their roster week 1.

He’d be a 5th round pick probably. Maybe a 4th if Miami is eating money.

[Bootz]

Whitehead's gone. Insert a new name, JJ Roberts.

I thought he signed a 2 year deal, but im just now finding out the Bucs didn't pick up his option.

Yep. He's a FA now.

[Bootz]

Define cheap.

In comparison to other top corners he’s cheap. $16M cap hit this year. Miami may also be willing to eat some of it to help facilitate a trade?

They’ve already paid his roster bonus and he has another $19M bonus coming if he’s on their roster week 1.

He’d be a 5th round pick probably. Maybe a 4th if Miami is eating money.

That would be a pretty good bargain for whoever ultimately trades for him. I just don't see that being Jason Licht.

If they weren't so cheap, I'd say that would be an amazing trade for Cincinnati. Their corners suck and Ramsey would provide a tremendous boost to the defense overall.