Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Doctor]

Mayfield failing or succeeding doesn't make me right or wrong

And there it is. The immovable object.

[Grahamburn]

"Not top 10"

Correct

I think it's funny you're using something you don't agree with, to prove your point. You've said that you don't think Herbert is better than Mayfield, yet both of those say Herbert's better. LOL

Those aren't my lists. I do think he's better than Herbert. I think if you were a little more rational with your takes they'd carry more credibility. I think you had him 22nd or something on your most recent list? That's just spite for the sake of bias with no attempts at objectivity for what Baker has accomplished in Tampa.

I'll move on until after the season. The back and forth is tired.

[Backside]

Dude said you’re delusional if you think that replacing Fields with Baker on the Jets improves them



There’s definitely some delusion going on here. This guy just delivers gold all offseason

[CannonFire]

Mayfield failing or succeeding doesn't make me right or wrong

And there it is. The immovable object.

It's because my point has never been about Mayfield himself. I swear, I think you people just don't read anything. That said, everything that Mayfield has done here, is more proof that I'm right than you. I'm graciously giving you an out. You're welcome.

[CannonFire]

Dude said you’re delusional if you think that replacing Fields with Baker on the Jets improves them



There’s definitely some delusion going on here. This guy just delivers gold all offseason

A lot of people said that about Wilson and Fields in Pittsburgh. How'd that turn out?
A lot of people said that about Darnold in Minnesota. How'd that turn out?
A lot of people said that about Mayfield in Tampa. How'd that turn out?

Sometimes it works out for short term success, sometimes it works out for longer. It's always because of the team around the QB and not the QB himself. We're talking about JAG's here, not real difference makers. Real difference makers don't just from team to team.

I'm starting to think that many of you don't actually watch football.

[CannonFire]

Correct

I think it's funny you're using something you don't agree with, to prove your point. You've said that you don't think Herbert is better than Mayfield, yet both of those say Herbert's better. LOL

Those aren't my lists. I do think he's better than Herbert. I think if you were a little more rational with your takes they'd carry more credibility. I think you had him 22nd or something on your most recent list? That's just spite for the sake of bias with no attempts at objectivity for what Baker has accomplished in Tampa.

I'll move on until after the season. The back and forth is tired.

I know they're not your lists and I know for some unknown reason you think he's better than Herbert. It's why I said that I find it funny that you used those lists to say he's top 10.

I know it's tired, but you keep bringing it up.

[Backside]

Dude said you’re delusional if you think that replacing Fields with Baker on the Jets improves them



There’s definitely some delusion going on here. This guy just delivers gold all offseason

A lot of people said that about Wilson and Fields in Pittsburgh. How'd that turn out?
A lot of people said that about Darnold in Minnesota. How'd that turn out?
A lot of people said that about Mayfield in Tampa. How'd that turn out?

Sometimes it works out for short term success, sometimes it works out for longer. It's always because of the team around the QB and not the QB himself. We're talking about JAG's here, not real difference makers. Real difference makers don't just from team to team.

I'm starting to think that many of you don't actually watch football.

How’d it turn out? Neither Wilson or Fields have a starting job anymore and Fields is on a one year deal with a new team

Darnold’s team moved on from him.

So what stands out as different about Baker coming to Tampa?

Are you sure you watched football last year if you’re calling Baker a JAG?


What’s aggravating is how set in stone and completely unwilling to update your opinion even slightly, that’s why you get so much heat. If it felt like arguing with someone who could change their mind or just didn’t think they were 100% right no matter what happened it’d be different. You’re literally saying there is no difference between Justin Fields and Baker Mayfield. EVERY SINGLE NFL personality, casual fan, hardcore fan, player, etc. disagrees with you. At that point you gotta concede or produce some receipts about why we should trust you over literally every single other person with an opinion on the matter. Until such time I will continue to see this as some weird bit you’re doing.

[Phantom]

Heyyyy, some people are very resistant to change and are firm in their beliefs, refusing to budge. Isn't what Cannon doing?

[Phantom]

This shit reminds me of when I was a kid, back on the original board. They were arguing about why Shaun King was a better QB than Trent Dilfer. A year later, he was replaced by Brad Johnson. Nonstop argument

[Grahamburn]

This shit reminds me of when I was a kid, back on the original board. They were arguing about why Shaun King was a better QB than Trent Dilfer. A year later, he was replaced by Brad Johnson. Nonstop argument

I think the problem is more that there's any argument at all.

[Grahamburn]

Those aren't my lists. I do think he's better than Herbert. I think if you were a little more rational with your takes they'd carry more credibility. I think you had him 22nd or something on your most recent list? That's just spite for the sake of bias with no attempts at objectivity for what Baker has accomplished in Tampa.

I'll move on until after the season. The back and forth is tired.

I know they're not your lists and I know for some unknown reason you think he's better than Herbert. It's why I said that I find it funny that you used those lists to say he's top 10.

I know it's tired, but you keep bringing it up.

What's the standard then? Super Bowl or bust? Your point is basically, "we can't win a Super Bowl with Mayfield, so why pay him more than a vet QB min type of deal?" Right? Now, that argument held some merit after 2023 and we debated it. Mayfield signed. Then 2024 happened. You can't get a QB of Mayfield's caliber after those two seasons for one year $14M deals. It's hard for most of us to fathom how you could watch that season and still hold on to the idea that we can't win with this guy as our QB. Because it sure looks to me like we can. So, the constant back and forth rings like schtick when you're unwavering in your stance.

The guys you wanted here instead of Mayfield after 2023 were Cousins, Fields, Wilson, or Minshew and then draft someone (none of the top QBs fell to our pick mind you). Basically anybody but Mayfield. Right? The problem is you don't come off that take after he did what he did in 2024. You dig in and say anyone would have done it with his supporting cast. Then I point out he played most of that season without Evans/Godwin. Crickets.

He's the 19th highest paid QB and performed much better than that. Most say like a top 10 QB. I don't see the contract as a problem.

[Sooner06]

Are we really using career stats vs the Bengals as some time of measuring stick?

Yes, he is. It was the main point of his original post, because I'm guessing he thinks Mayfield is better than Burrow. I'm not kidding, I think that dude is actually related to Baker.

Lol, being a little hyperbolic there, buddy. if that were true, how is it that I always agree that Burrow should be ranked higher than Baker on these lists? in fact, I always have Stafford ranked higher than Baker as well, so your post is even less valid. But it is funny.

That aside, it's obvious that Burrow has some sort of issue, because in spite of his obvious talent, he still has games like the one he had last season vs. LAC. And he has yet to actually play at his own lofty heights in the playoffs. And hasn't even been to the playoffs since '22.

In spite of these constant issues, I have always placed Burrow above Baker on these lists since 2021, because overall he's been the more consistently great QB. i just don't think the difference is as large as you seem to think it is.

[Sooner06]

Yes, he is. It was the main point of his original post, because I'm guessing he thinks Mayfield is better than Burrow. I'm not kidding, I think that dude is actually related to Baker.

Lol, being a little hyperbolic there, dontcha think there, buddy? if that were true, how is it that I always agree that Burrow should be ranked higher than Baker on these lists? in fact, I always have Stafford ranked higher than Baker as well, so your post is even less valid. But it is funny.

That aside, it's obvious that Burrow has some sort of issue, because in spite of his obvious talent, he still has games like the one he had last season vs. LAC. And he has yet to actually play to his own lofty heights in the playoffs. Or, even approach them in the postseason. And hasn't even been to the playoffs since '22.

In spite of these constant issues, I have always placed Burrow above Baker on these lists since 2021, because overall he's been the more consistently great QB. i just don't think the difference is as large as you seem to think it is.

And I don't agree that "Baker doesn't elevate anyone." He's elevated plenty of players over his career. hell, how many Bucs players have declared that very thing these last couple seasons? I lost count. And it was the same in LA, and in CLE (even years after Baker had already left CLE).

[Buc2]

I know they're not your lists and I know for some unknown reason you think he's better than Herbert. It's why I said that I find it funny that you used those lists to say he's top 10.

I know it's tired, but you keep bringing it up.

What's the standard then? Super Bowl or bust? Your point is basically, "we can't win a Super Bowl with Mayfield, so why pay him more than a vet QB min type of deal?" Right? Now, that argument held some merit after 2023 and we debated it. Mayfield signed. Then 2024 happened. You can't get a QB of Mayfield's caliber after those two seasons for one year $14M deals. It's hard for most of us to fathom how you could watch that season and still hold on to the idea that we can't win with this guy as our QB. Because it sure looks to me like we can. So, the constant back and forth rings like schtick when you're unwavering in your stance.

The guys you wanted here instead of Mayfield after 2023 were Cousins, Fields, Wilson, or Minshew and then draft someone (none of the top QBs fell to our pick mind you). Basically anybody but Mayfield. Right? The problem is you don't come off that take after he did what he did in 2024. You dig in and say anyone would have done it with his supporting cast. Then I point out he played most of that season without Evans/Godwin. Crickets.

He's the 19th highest paid QB and performed much better than that. Most say like a top 10 QB. I don't see the contract as a problem.

I thought you said you were done with this?

[Bootz]

Can't wait to see it. I can't recall the last time a Bucs player had an endorsement or commercial.

[CannonFire]

A lot of people said that about Wilson and Fields in Pittsburgh. How'd that turn out?
A lot of people said that about Darnold in Minnesota. How'd that turn out?
A lot of people said that about Mayfield in Tampa. How'd that turn out?

Sometimes it works out for short term success, sometimes it works out for longer. It's always because of the team around the QB and not the QB himself. We're talking about JAG's here, not real difference makers. Real difference makers don't just from team to team.

I'm starting to think that many of you don't actually watch football.

How’d it turn out? Neither Wilson or Fields have a starting job anymore and Fields is on a one year deal with a new team

Darnold’s team moved on from him.

So what stands out as different about Baker coming to Tampa?

Are you sure you watched football last year if you’re calling Baker a JAG?


What’s aggravating is how set in stone and completely unwilling to update your opinion even slightly, that’s why you get so much heat. If it felt like arguing with someone who could change their mind or just didn’t think they were 100% right no matter what happened it’d be different. You’re literally saying there is no difference between Justin Fields and Baker Mayfield. EVERY SINGLE NFL personality, casual fan, hardcore fan, player, etc. disagrees with you. At that point you gotta concede or produce some receipts about why we should trust you over literally every single other person with an opinion on the matter. Until such time I will continue to see this as some weird bit you’re doing.

The Steelers won 10 games, 0-1 in the playoffs
The Vikings won 14 games, 0-1 in the playoffs
The Bucs won 10 games, 0-1 in the playoffs

That's how they all turned out. What stands out is that we're paying a lot of money for a player who isn't a difference maker and the other teams are smart enough to not do that.

I don't change my opinion because I'm right. This coming season, let's say Mayfield puts up 3800 yards, 27 TD's, and 12 ints, we go 8-9 and miss the playoffs... I'm not going to change my opinion of him, will you? My opinion will still be, while I prefer to find a replacement, I'm still fine with him on an extension if it's for less money, like $15-20M AAV.

Why? Because I know he's not special, he's not a difference maker. The team around him determines his success, not the other way around. With that being the case, you spend the money on the team around, and less on him. It really isn't that hard.

[Bootz]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

[Buc2]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

So, do you feel the Bucs should have "moved on" like the Steelers & Vikings did?

[Phantom]

Baker Mayfield outperforms the two quarterbacks mentioned by Bootz and Cannon, rendering the point irrelevant.

[Phantom]

Oh... like, do you seriously think the Vikings are gonna stick with Darnold after his poor performance in the last two games and with McCarthy waiting for his chance to start? Yeah, right.

[Bootz]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

So, do you feel the Bucs should have "moved on" like the Steelers & Vikings did?

Of course not. Again, we signed Baker to a multi-year deal with guaranteed money. Everyone should understand why the Vikings moved on. And the Steelers decides Aaron Rodgers was a better option.

[Grahamburn]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

It's just so logically disingenuous though. The Vikings and Steelers had top 10 defenses in points. They were both tied with creating the most turnovers in the NFL with 33. The Bucs had 18 and were 17th in points against, which was padded by an inordinate amount of bad offenses down the stretch.

If Baker had those defenses this team also wins 14+ games and if the defense can force a punt in the playoffs they'd have moved on.

Baker ran a top 3 offense. That's the difference and everyone knows it. We're not keeping him because we made a multi year commitment. Had he bombed the way those guys did they'd probably have released him. It's not rocket science.

[Buc2]

So, do you feel the Bucs should have "moved on" like the Steelers & Vikings did?

Of course not. Again, we signed Baker to a multi-year deal with guaranteed money. Everyone should understand why the Vikings moved on. And the Steelers decides Aaron Rodgers was a better option.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought that was your position but your previous post confused me a bit.

[Backside]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

He got that multi year deal because he did win a playoff game his first year here. Did Fields/Wilson or Darnold? I feel so owned.

So you’d prefer Justin Fields to be the Bucs QB on a one year cheaper deal as well then?

[Backside]

I don't change my opinion because I'm right. This coming season, let's say Mayfield puts up 3800 yards, 27 TD's, and 12 ints, we go 8-9 and miss the playoffs... I'm not going to change my opinion of him, will you?

I’ll base my opinion off watching the games and seeing how he plays.

If he throws for 4500 yards, 41 TDs and 16 int and wins the division with a heavily injured offensive supporting cast would you change your opinion?

[Grahamburn]

I don't change my opinion because I'm right. This coming season, let's say Mayfield puts up 3800 yards, 27 TD's, and 12 ints, we go 8-9 and miss the playoffs... I'm not going to change my opinion of him, will you?

I’ll base my opinion off watching the games and seeing how he plays.

If he throws for 4500 yards, 41 TDs and 16 int and wins the division with a heavily injured offensive supporting cast would you change your opinion?

Obviously not.

[CannonFire]

Baker Mayfield outperforms the two quarterbacks mentioned by Bootz and Cannon, rendering the point irrelevant.

Teams had similar outcomes, meaning the QB didn't matter as much as the team did. Rendering the point, dead on.

[Bootz]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

He got that multi year deal because he did win a playoff game his first year here. Did Fields/Wilson or Darnold? I feel so owned.

So you’d prefer Justin Fields to be the Bucs QB on a one year cheaper deal as well then?

Never said that at all. Try again.

[CannonFire]

I don't change my opinion because I'm right. This coming season, let's say Mayfield puts up 3800 yards, 27 TD's, and 12 ints, we go 8-9 and miss the playoffs... I'm not going to change my opinion of him, will you?

I’ll base my opinion off watching the games and seeing how he plays.

If he throws for 4500 yards, 41 TDs and 16 int and wins the division with a heavily injured offensive supporting cast would you change your opinion?

Sure, if he actually does it more than once... because the information changed. I mean, last year he only had 1 WR missed 9 games and the another miss 3. If that's you're definition of "heavily injured", then I'm sorry, you'll have to do better.

If Baker can do that here though, how come he couldn't do that in Cleveland or Carolina?

[CannonFire]

Amazes me how people try so hard to re-write narratives as if Baker needs the help.

I'm sorry, but @CannonFire absolutely owned @Backside here on that point. The Steelers & Vikings collectively paid their QBs less than we did and the results were still the same. That isn't a ringing endorsement for Baker.

Also, their respective teams moved on yes. We didn't because we had already made a multi year commitment. It's not rocket science.

He got that multi year deal because he did win a playoff game his first year here. Did Fields/Wilson or Darnold? I feel so owned.

So you’d prefer Justin Fields to be the Bucs QB on a one year cheaper deal as well then?

So you're saying that the ONLY reason that Mayfield got a 3-year extension was because the Eagles quit 7 weeks prior to us playing them in the playoffs? That had we lost that game, we wouldn't have brought him back?

[Backside]

I’ll base my opinion off watching the games and seeing how he plays.

If he throws for 4500 yards, 41 TDs and 16 int and wins the division with a heavily injured offensive supporting cast would you change your opinion?

Sure, if he actually does it... because the information changed. I mean, last year he only had 1 WR missed 9 games and the another miss 3. If that's you're definition of "heavily injured", then I'm sorry, you'll have to do better.

If Baker can do that here though, how come he couldn't do that in Cleveland or Carolina?

Lmao it’s painfully obvious you’ll just adjust your criteria enough to never give him any credit no matter what. Yea losing a top WR in the game for the season is a big deal, we had terrible replacement tackles playing in games. Evans was out and then banged up. Otton went down. There were plenty of injuries. He forced OT in Arrowhead with no starting WRs and backup TEs but that’s still just him getting carried by the team I guess.

Why should I or anyone else care what he did in Cleveland or Carolina? I’m much more interested in what he does in Tampa Bay. Last year going in everyone said our roster was mid, as soon as the offense looked great behind a QB who was playing great your ilk decided the roster was actually amazing and carrying the QB.

[Grahamburn]

Baker Mayfield outperforms the two quarterbacks mentioned by Bootz and Cannon, rendering the point irrelevant.

Teams had similar outcomes, meaning the QB didn't matter as much as the team did. Rendering the point, dead on.

Teams win in different ways. How did the Bucs win?

The Bucs lost 7 games in 2024. Average ppg against in those losses was 30.42.

[Backside]

He got that multi year deal because he did win a playoff game his first year here. Did Fields/Wilson or Darnold? I feel so owned.

So you’d prefer Justin Fields to be the Bucs QB on a one year cheaper deal as well then?

So you're saying that the ONLY reason that Mayfield got a 3-year extension was because the Eagles quit 7 weeks prior to us playing them in the playoffs? That had we lost that game, we wouldn't have brought him back?

He got an extension because he came to Tampa and played well, worthy of an extension that even you say you were fine with. So why didn’t Fields or Darnold also get one?

His teammates loved him, he was a solid QB and they thought he could be even better if they kept him on. And they were right. He went from playing well to playing great in year 2. We’ll see how year 3 goes, while all the QBs you say are equal to him continue to be journeymen.

[Bootz]

So you're saying that the ONLY reason that Mayfield got a 3-year extension was because the Eagles quit 7 weeks prior to us playing them in the playoffs? That had we lost that game, we wouldn't have brought him back?

He got an extension because he came to Tampa and played well, worthy of an extension that even you say you were fine with. So why didn’t Fields or Darnold also get one?

His teammates loved him, he was a solid QB and they thought he could be even better if they kept him on. And they were right. He went from playing well to playing great in year 2. We’ll see how year 3 goes, while all the QBs you say are equal to him continue to be journeymen.

Fields didn't get one because he barely started for the Steelers and didn't really move the needle enough for them not to see what they had in Russell Wilson. AND Fields came there with 1 year left on his deal.

As I stated before, Darnold not getting an extension from Minnesota should've been clear to everyone. They traded up into the top 10 of the 2024 draft to take JJ McCarthy and obviously want to see a return on their investment. AND Darnold came there on a 1 year deal.

Baker earned his extension playing well and everything else you said is true. Again, not sure why narratives have to be changed in order to make Baker look better. It's unnecessary.

[Backside]

He got an extension because he came to Tampa and played well, worthy of an extension that even you say you were fine with. So why didn’t Fields or Darnold also get one?

His teammates loved him, he was a solid QB and they thought he could be even better if they kept him on. And they were right. He went from playing well to playing great in year 2. We’ll see how year 3 goes, while all the QBs you say are equal to him continue to be journeymen.

Fields didn't get one because he barely started for the Steelers and didn't really move the needle enough for them not to see what they had in Russell Wilson. AND Fields came there with 1 year left on his deal.

As I stated before, Darnold not getting an extension from Minnesota should've been clear to everyone. They traded up into the top 10 of the 2024 draft to take JJ McCarthy and obviously want to see a return on their investment. AND Darnold came there on a 1 year deal.

Baker earned his extension playing well and everything else you said is true. Again, not sure why narratives have to be changed in order to make Baker look better. It's unnecessary.

Okay, so this is interesting. Because we seem to agree and I actually have no clue what Baker narratives you think I’m trying to rewrite. I’d appreciate an explanation/example.