Not so Rapid Reactions

[__Chef__]

Godwin back of the endzone had his hand up running parallel with Baker was probably the intended target. We'll never know now as the ball was tipped.

Thats why I said nevermind the caption. Look at the DB in the slot to Baker's right(I believe that's DeJean). He has eyes on him the entire time. Baker saw that and hesitated because he knew it would be picked.

This was a good concept by Fangio to try and bait Baker into a throw. He bypassed the initial trap but then created his own with that pick. And I'm not sure that "tip" even effected the trajectory of the ball. Campbell most likely still picks it.

I couldn't find the replay of it at a better angle, but the tip wasn't incidental. It may have still been picked or it may have been a TD. But you're right, it was great coverage.

[Bootz]

Nevermind the nonsense caption. Guys doesnt know how NFL defense is played. But this is the INT. I'm struggling to see what Baker saw when he threw that ball. Campbell was the only one with a remote chance to catch it. Godwin was too behind Campbell. Otton was too far inside. Even if the ball was tipped, where's it going?

I believe this was a back corner attempt/location to the deepest WR (godwin?)

That's an extremely tiny window trying to get the ball over a 6'4 LB and with a DB in position to undercut the ball.

[Pirate Life]

Even with the still you provided, this doesn't show Godwin being fairly wide open at all. Campbell is directly in front of him. Ringo is trailing and could've undercut the ball. Are you suggesting he was gonna somehow throw over both of them to Godwin, who wasn't even fading towards the back of the end zone?

And altered the trajectory how exactly? Usually a tipped pass isn't going to have that much zip on it.

Godwin doesn’t have a defender within about ten yards. That’ s wide open in the NFL. Campbell is on Otton and isn’t undercutting the ball at this point (ball is in the air and about halfway there in this shot). Ball’s trajectory changes significantly when tipped. Flutters to the inside instead of continuing towards the sideline in front of Godwin. Basically hooks to the left.

[Bootz]

Forget the caption again. Elijah Simmons is what people think Desmond Watson will be. He gets off of the ball so fast and doesn't give ground vs the run. I'm excited about him. Not much pass rush, but he does work against the run.

[mdb1958]

I believe this was a back corner attempt/location to the deepest WR (godwin?)

That's an extremely tiny window trying to get the ball over a 6'4 LB and with a DB in position to undercut the ball.

Wirfs took 4 steps backwards, which in my mind caused Baker to screw up and go to the right. Before he went to the right he had time to zip the ball to Godwin or throw it away since it was first and ten. Of all the choices Baker dragged it out and made the worst one. I think he was out to get Godwin a TD, a much better decision would have been to rip the ball to Bucky and play another play if needed.


Godwin - quick
Bucky - quick
Throw it away.

[Bootz]

That's an extremely tiny window trying to get the ball over a 6'4 LB and with a DB in position to undercut the ball.

Wirfs took 4 steps backwards, which in my mind caused Baker to screw up and go to the right. Before he went to the right he had time to zip the ball to Godwin or throw it away since it was first and ten. Of all the choices Baker dragged it out and made the worst one. I think he was out to get Godwin a TD, a much better decision would have been to rip the ball to Bucky and play another play if needed.


Godwin - quick
Bucky - quick
Throw it away.

Or another 3 plays. This was 1st down in the red zone. Have to come away with points or at least a better opportunity.

[mdb1958]

Wirfs took 4 steps backwards, which in my mind caused Baker to screw up and go to the right. Before he went to the right he had time to zip the ball to Godwin or throw it away since it was first and ten. Of all the choices Baker dragged it out and made the worst one. I think he was out to get Godwin a TD, a much better decision would have been to rip the ball to Bucky and play another play if needed.


Godwin - quick
Bucky - quick
Throw it away.

Or another 3 plays. This was 1st down in the red zone. Have to come away with points or at least a better opportunity.

After 3 or 4 seconds Wirfs and Heck are standing on the 18 and 20 yard line - are you kidding me.

[Bootz]

I so wish Bowles made an adjustment earlier than he did. Hurts presnap calls out where the blitz is coming from and knows exactly where to go. This is like stealing candy from a newborn. We used the same game plan as the wildcard game 2 years ago.

[__Chef__]

I so wish Bowles made an adjustment earlier than he did. Hurts presnap calls out where the blitz is coming from and knows exactly where to go. This is like stealing candy from a newborn. We used the same game plan as the wildcard game 2 years ago.

Interesting catch. I wonder what he saw/heard to know LVD was blitzing? SVD was showing blitz, not LVD.

[Snake]

LVD could have his weight shifted 10% more forward than when he drops back into coverage. Or, his relative position on the field. Or one of 100 other things.

This is where intensive film study and preparation comes in. Hurts had the answers to the test.

[Bootz]

I so wish Bowles made an adjustment earlier than he did. Hurts presnap calls out where the blitz is coming from and knows exactly where to go. This is like stealing candy from a newborn. We used the same game plan as the wildcard game 2 years ago.

Interesting catch. I wonder what he saw/heard to know LVD was blitzing? SVD was showing blitz, not LVD.

Film study. Game prep. Bowles uses this disguise quite frequently and Hurts recognized it. I just chalk this up to the work they put in during the week in meetings.

[mdb1958]

Where is our film study? Was it to stay bent over on a field goal try? Was it for Sean Tucker to avoid the edge block on our first blocked punt this year? Our long snapper got rag dolled on another blocked field goal.

[Primeminister]

Forget the caption again. Elijah Simmons is what people think Desmond Watson will be. He gets off of the ball so fast and doesn't give ground vs the run. I'm excited about him. Not much pass rush, but he does work against the run.

I assume Elijah Simmons is #92 because 92 is absolutely a problem for OL. Good catch on that, Bootz. Instead of hoping for Desmond we should just enjoy Elijah wrecking shop.

[Pirate Life]

Forget the caption again. Elijah Simmons is what people think Desmond Watson will be. He gets off of the ball so fast and doesn't give ground vs the run. I'm excited about him. Not much pass rush, but he does work against the run.

I assume Elijah Simmons is #92 because 92 is absolutely a problem for OL. Good catch on that, Bootz. Instead of hoping for Desmond we should just enjoy Elijah wrecking shop.

Both Elijahs did very well yesterday. Simmons and Roberts.

Crazy stat:



Eagles lead the league in 3 and out drives by the offense. Had 6 of them on Sunday, 7 if you count the one the punter ran into the endzone for the safety. Bucs offense had 2.

[Primeminister]

I assume Elijah Simmons is #92 because 92 is absolutely a problem for OL. Good catch on that, Bootz. Instead of hoping for Desmond we should just enjoy Elijah wrecking shop.

Both Elijahs did very well yesterday. Simmons and Roberts.

Crazy stat:



Eagles lead the league in 3 and out drives by the offense. Had 6 of them on Sunday, 7 if you count the one the punter ran into the endzone for the safety. Bucs offense had 2.

I wonder if they came into Sunday leading the league in that.

[mdb1958]

Forget the caption again. Elijah Simmons is what people think Desmond Watson will be. He gets off of the ball so fast and doesn't give ground vs the run. I'm excited about him. Not much pass rush, but he does work against the run.

I assume Elijah Simmons is #92 because 92 is absolutely a problem for OL. Good catch on that, Bootz. Instead of hoping for Desmond we should just enjoy Elijah wrecking shop.

I won't settle for less than a 3 man wrecking crew and it's needed. We should also let it be known that all Buc IDL's need to be in top shelf o-line destroying condition. If you cannot reach that elevation then you stay on the practice squad.

[mdb1958]

Is it safe to assume that all of Simmons snap counts were in the 2nd half?

[Bootz]

Forget the caption again. Elijah Simmons is what people think Desmond Watson will be. He gets off of the ball so fast and doesn't give ground vs the run. I'm excited about him. Not much pass rush, but he does work against the run.

I assume Elijah Simmons is #92 because 92 is absolutely a problem for OL. Good catch on that, Bootz. Instead of hoping for Desmond we should just enjoy Elijah wrecking shop.

I wanted to see if the PFF grade matched the tape because I didn't pay much attention to him during the game. It sure did. Steen is a very good RG and Simmons gave him fits. Hopefully we see more of him and less of Gaines going forward.

[Bootz]

I assume Elijah Simmons is #92 because 92 is absolutely a problem for OL. Good catch on that, Bootz. Instead of hoping for Desmond we should just enjoy Elijah wrecking shop.

Both Elijahs did very well yesterday. Simmons and Roberts.

Crazy stat:



Eagles lead the league in 3 and out drives by the offense. Had 6 of them on Sunday, 7 if you count the one the punter ran into the endzone for the safety. Bucs offense had 2.

That is a crazy stat.

The reverse of that is they are the only team to score a TD on every red zone trip so far this season. Their offense has literally been feast or famine.

And major respect to Roberts too. He's been great this year and had another solid game on Sunday.

[Bootz]

This is SICK!

[Primeminister]

This is SICK!

Fucking A I’m excited. Looks like Kancey getting hurt opened the door for the Prophets (both Elijahs…if they’re good this can stick ). I hope these two are as good as they looked on Sunday. If so that goes a long way to winning in January.

[Sooner06]

Just watched the first 3 quarters of the game. A few notes.


Too many dropped passes. At least 3 if not 4 in the first half alone. Two to Godwin, and though i don't want to bag on Chris after jsut his first game in almost a year, those were both perfectly catchable passes. i was shocked he dropped them.

The DL wasn't very disciplined in their rushes in the first half. Our EDGEs can't run past Hurts (or any running QB for that matter) and allow him free avenues to escape, especially when our LBs are off chasing receivers 10-20 yds downfield. Way too much green grass. They needed to keep contain on Hurts while rushing, kind of a 'mush' rush philosophy, like what DET and KC did to Lamar. And I didn't see us spying Hurts much at all, which was surprising to me.

Baker's INT was a poor decision, even if Godwin was open for a second there. he should've just taken the yards they gave him on the scramble or thrown the ball away and lived to run another play. But the ball was tipped, so who knows whether that would've been a TD if it hadn't been deflected.


Charlie Heck is not a serviceable RT. Good lord, he's just a mess out there.

The officiating was terrible. Twice Godwin was either interfered with or held, but no flags. Another no-flag on a play involving Emeka as well.


One final thought, about Grizz. I'm trying to be patient, as he hasn't had the smoothest road so far, what with both OTs being out for the first few games, then losing Mauch, leaving just two starting OLs to work with and both out of position. But it's tough when you realize that most of the good plays that were generated out there were by Baker just ad-libbing stuff whenever he could. I get that the playbook is pretty thin at the moment, but Grizz has to start installing some manufactured touches for White, Shepard and others that don't start with some version of a WR screen.

Overall though, considering the injury situation, i think TB played fairly competitively. once we get Evans, JMac and Goedeke back, this offense should be one of the top-scoring units in the league.

[Pirate Life]

This is SICK!

Fucking A I’m excited. Looks like Kancey getting hurt opened the door for the Prophets (both Elijahs…if they’re good this can stick ). I hope these two are as good as they looked on Sunday. If so that goes a long way to winning in January.

The other Elijah smokin' Mailata...

[13F11B]

Nevermind the nonsense caption. Guys doesnt know how NFL defense is played. But this is the INT. I'm struggling to see what Baker saw when he threw that ball. Campbell was the only one with a remote chance to catch it. Godwin was too behind Campbell. Otton was too far inside. Even if the ball was tipped, where's it going?

Yeah, #27 go away with a pretty bad hold on that play too.

Baker might have been able to hit Godwin in the middle of the endzone, but not where he threw it. That was a bad decision, not a bad throw.

[Pirate Life]

Thats why I said nevermind the caption. Look at the DB in the slot to Baker's right(I believe that's DeJean). He has eyes on him the entire time. Baker saw that and hesitated because he knew it would be picked.

This was a good concept by Fangio to try and bait Baker into a throw. He bypassed the initial trap but then created his own with that pick. And I'm not sure that "tip" even effected the trajectory of the ball. Campbell most likely still picks it.

I couldn't find the replay of it at a better angle, but the tip wasn't incidental. It may have still been picked or it may have been a TD. But you're right, it was great coverage.

Wasn't DeJean who tipped it, it was Blankenship but he's right about the tip preventing a likely TD.

[Pirate Life]

About 30 seconds into this they have a bit of the backside video of the play. Can see that Godwin is separating from the defenders and already behind them. Can also see how the ball tailed inside and slowed rather than going towards the sidelines.

Mayfield absolutely should have thrown it away to live another down, but it's not as bad a throw or decision as the broadcast angle showed.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jihaad-campb ... runch-time

[mdb1958]

NFL pdf file for the game.

Eagles net yards for the first half - 201
Eagles for the entire game - 200


If Baker's completion ratio increases everything changes for future games.

[Jonny]

Nevermind the nonsense caption. Guys doesnt know how NFL defense is played. But this is the INT. I'm struggling to see what Baker saw when he threw that ball. Campbell was the only one with a remote chance to catch it. Godwin was too behind Campbell. Otton was too far inside. Even if the ball was tipped, where's it going?

Yeah, #27 go away with a pretty bad hold on that play too.

Baker might have been able to hit Godwin in the middle of the endzone, but not where he threw it. That was a bad decision, not a bad throw.

I agree. The throw was there a couple of seconds earlier, but Baker was evading rush and didn't have a good platform. And by the time he created a platform to throw two underneath defenders creeped in.

In defense of Baker though, I will say that there was still a narrow window open where a QB with a strong arm could have threaded it. Baker is that guy. It is possible without the tip, the ball could have travelled fast for a Godwin TD or out of bounds pass for an incompletion.

My opinion of Baker after watching even his so called mistakes has only gone up. The offensive scheme or line was not giving him much. Our expectation from him for this game were unrealistic, especially considering Philly possibly played their best on D for this season with their hair on fire that whole game.

[Bootz]

About 30 seconds into this they have a bit of the backside video of the play. Can see that Godwin is separating from the defenders and already behind them. Can also see how the ball tailed inside and slowed rather than going towards the sidelines.

Mayfield absolutely should have thrown it away to live another down, but it's not as bad a throw or decision as the broadcast angle showed.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jihaad-campb ... runch-time

It amazes me that people can't tell when a schematic design is working. Again Fangio has excellent design here to bait Baker into a throw and Baker actually passed the test and didn't bite initially. You act as if there aren't 3 DBs with eyes on Baker waiting for him to take the bait here. He just made the wrong decision by throwing to where Campbell was.

Answer me this: If that ball isnt tipped, where are you assuming the trajectory of the ball is going exactly?

[13F11B]

About 30 seconds into this they have a bit of the backside video of the play. Can see that Godwin is separating from the defenders and already behind them. Can also see how the ball tailed inside and slowed rather than going towards the sidelines.

Mayfield absolutely should have thrown it away to live another down, but it's not as bad a throw or decision as the broadcast angle showed.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jihaad-campb ... runch-time

It amazes me that people can't tell when a schematic design is working. Again Fangio has excellent design here to bait Baker into a throw and Baker actually passed the test and didn't bite initially. You act as if there aren't 3 DBs with eyes on Baker waiting for him to take the bait here. He just made the wrong decision by throwing to where Campbell was.

Answer me this: If that ball isnt tipped, where are you assuming the trajectory of the ball is going exactly?

Fangio's scheme of holding and committing pass interference is not really legal. However, Baker made a bad decision.

[Bootz]

It amazes me that people can't tell when a schematic design is working. Again Fangio has excellent design here to bait Baker into a throw and Baker actually passed the test and didn't bite initially. You act as if there aren't 3 DBs with eyes on Baker waiting for him to take the bait here. He just made the wrong decision by throwing to where Campbell was.

Answer me this: If that ball isnt tipped, where are you assuming the trajectory of the ball is going exactly?

Fangio's scheme of holding and committing pass interference is not really legal. However, Baker made a bad decision.

Sorry I can't understand you over your whining. Would you repeat that please?

[13F11B]

Fangio's scheme of holding and committing pass interference is not really legal. However, Baker made a bad decision.

Sorry I can't understand you over your whining. Would you repeat that please?

So, you did not see the holding on the same play?
You did not see the multiple DPI or holdings infractions go uncalled during the game?

[Bootz]

Sorry I can't understand you over your whining. Would you repeat that please?

So, you did not see the holding on the same play?
You did not see the multiple DPI or holdings infractions go uncalled during the game?

That's been discussed. NFL defenders are allowed a 5 yard window for direct contact. If you want that call hold, you're asking for games to be nothing but flag fests because that's how EVERY DB plays press. Especially in the red zone.

[__Chef__]

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jihaad-campb ... runch-time

The second angle of this clip is the one I was referring to. You can clearly see how the ball was affected.

[Pirate Life]

About 30 seconds into this they have a bit of the backside video of the play. Can see that Godwin is separating from the defenders and already behind them. Can also see how the ball tailed inside and slowed rather than going towards the sidelines.

Mayfield absolutely should have thrown it away to live another down, but it's not as bad a throw or decision as the broadcast angle showed.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jihaad-campb ... runch-time

It amazes me that people can't tell when a schematic design is working. Again Fangio has excellent design here to bait Baker into a throw and Baker actually passed the test and didn't bite initially. You act as if there aren't 3 DBs with eyes on Baker waiting for him to take the bait here. He just made the wrong decision by throwing to where Campbell was.

Answer me this: If that ball isnt tipped, where are you assuming the trajectory of the ball is going exactly?

There were not three dbs waiting for him to take the bait. Two guys were on Otton (Campbell being one). The trajectory of the ball is heading for the sideline before the tip, you can see it corkscrew to the inside shortly after the tip and lose velocity. It's intended to be similar to the throw Mayfield made to McMillan in the NO game last year as far as the target goes.

And no, this wasn't some genius Fangio design. It's a broken play turned into a scramble drill for both the offense and defense.

Mayfield shouldn't have attempted the throw given his injury and the down, but it's not as cut and dried a bad decision as it looked on Sunday.