Not so Rapid Reactions

[13F11B]

So, you did not see the holding on the same play?
You did not see the multiple DPI or holdings infractions go uncalled during the game?

That's been discussed. NFL defenders are allowed a 5 yard window for direct contact. If you want that call hold, you're asking for games to be nothing but flag fests because that's how EVERY DB plays press. Especially in the red zone.

I did not know holding wrapping your arms around a guy was allowed in 5 yards. I thought it was similar to how OL can block but can't wrap their arm around your waist to hold you.

[Pirate Life]

So, you did not see the holding on the same play?
You did not see the multiple DPI or holdings infractions go uncalled during the game?

That's been discussed. NFL defenders are allowed a 5 yard window for direct contact. If you want that call hold, you're asking for games to be nothing but flag fests because that's how EVERY DB plays press. Especially in the red zone.

NFL defenders cannot maintain contact once the receiver is even with them. In this case, the DB continues to hold until well after Shepard's behind him.

[Bootz]

That's been discussed. NFL defenders are allowed a 5 yard window for direct contact. If you want that call hold, you're asking for games to be nothing but flag fests because that's how EVERY DB plays press. Especially in the red zone.

NFL defenders cannot maintain contact once the receiver is even with them. In this case, the DB continues to hold until well after Shepard's behind him.

Again if you're naively expecting that penalty to be called, you're welcoming a flag fest each and every week.

[Bootz]

That's been discussed. NFL defenders are allowed a 5 yard window for direct contact. If you want that call hold, you're asking for games to be nothing but flag fests because that's how EVERY DB plays press. Especially in the red zone.

I did not know holding wrapping your arms around a guy was allowed in 5 yards. I thought it was similar to how OL can block but can't wrap their arm around your waist to hold you.

Then you truly dont understand how defense is played and should find another sport.

[__Chef__]

NFL defenders cannot maintain contact once the receiver is even with them. In this case, the DB continues to hold until well after Shepard's behind him.

Again if you're naively expecting that penalty to be called, you're welcoming a flag fest each and every week.

Whatever they want to call is fine. As long as the same rules apply to everyone. If Yoda backpack defense is good with the league, then I expect Todd Bowles to drill it into our DBs.

Speaking of, it's been very refreshing seeing our guys playing tighter defense this year.

[Bootz]

Again if you're naively expecting that penalty to be called, you're welcoming a flag fest each and every week.

Whatever they want to call is fine. As long as the same rules apply to everyone. If Yoda backpack defense is good with the league, then I expect Todd Bowles to drill it into our DBs.

Speaking of, it's been very refreshing seeing our guys playing tighter defense this year.

That's the thing. WE DO IT TOO.

Fans just love being miserable, bitching and complaining that the league has it out for us for some unknown reason to them after we lose.



Where's the outrage here on a clear hold from Barton? If you're gonna bitch about penalties don't just stop on the ones that benefit you.

[Pirate Life]

NFL defenders cannot maintain contact once the receiver is even with them. In this case, the DB continues to hold until well after Shepard's behind him.

Again if you're naively expecting that penalty to be called, you're welcoming a flag fest each and every week.

Didn’t say it was expected, especially with this crew and their penchant for not calling pass interference or holding (pointed that out before the game).

Just correcting your misinterpretation of the rule.

[mdb1958]

Baker's completion %

2023 - 64.3
2024 - 71.4
2025 - 59.7 (so far)

This is a result of teams studying our short game passing and rather obvious why Grizzard see's the need to expand deeper routes.
Kinda tough when Mike never seems able to start a season on fire and injuries derail progress planning.
Throw in the o-line getting spoon fed treatment for how long to hold up on the LOS, problems can explode everywhere.

I'm not sure we are even running on six cylinders, if we get to eight you'll see the difference.

[Sooner06]

Concerning the INT play, when i watched the A-22 a few minutes ago, there was definitely a window for Baker to get the ball to Godwin, if not for the deflection. But within the context of the situation (1st down, broken play, etc.), i still don't like the decision. But at least Baker wasn't throwing into double coverage or something equally frustrating. Godwin was open, but it would've taken an extremely difficult and accurate layered throw over the first defender and just OOB (requiring Godwin to have to tip-toe to stay in) while trying to evade the rush and off-platform. But the window was there.

But because of that degree of difficulty, Baker needed to throw that one away and try to get an easier situation in the next three snaps, imo.

[Sooner06]

This is SICK!

Man, am i glad that what I saw of Elijah when he was playing those PS games back in Aug, actually panned out. guy looked like a very disruptive force vs. the run in those games, but he was facing mostly 2s/3s back then, and you just have to take anything you see in PS with a grain of salt or two. But he looks pretty darn disruptive there, against one of the best OLs in the NFL. Looking like a pretty good get by Licht.

[Bootz]

Concerning the INT play, when i watched the A-22 a few minutes ago, there was definitely a window for Baker to get the ball to Godwin, if not for the deflection. But within the context of the situation (1st down, broken play, etc.), i still don't like the decision. But at least Baker wasn't throwing into double coverage or something equally frustrating. Godwin was open, but it would've taken an extremely difficult and accurate layered throw over the first defender and just OOB (requiring Godwin to have to tip-toe to stay in) while trying to evade the rush and off-platform. But the window was there.

But because of that degree of difficulty, Baker needed to throw that one away and try to get an easier situation in the next three snaps, imo.

So honest question. Let's say the ball isnt tipped. Explain how you're expecting Godwin to get this ball when he's behind 2 Eagles defenders? 1 of which is 6'4 and both of which are in excellent position to break on the ball and make a play on it...

[Sooner06]

Concerning the INT play, when i watched the A-22 a few minutes ago, there was definitely a window for Baker to get the ball to Godwin, if not for the deflection. But within the context of the situation (1st down, broken play, etc.), i still don't like the decision. But at least Baker wasn't throwing into double coverage or something equally frustrating. Godwin was open, but it would've taken an extremely difficult and accurate layered throw over the first defender and just OOB (requiring Godwin to have to tip-toe to stay in) while trying to evade the rush and off-platform. But the window was there.

But because of that degree of difficulty, Baker needed to throw that one away and try to get an easier situation in the next three snaps, imo.

So honest question. Let's say the ball isnt tipped. Explain how you're expecting Godwin to get this ball when he's behind 2 Eagles defenders? 1 of which is 6'4 and both of which are in excellent position to break on the ball and make a play on it...

The pass had to be thrown outside and either layered over the first defender or a dart, a high dart. either way, it was going to be a high velocity throw to the sideline directly in front of Godwin. And almost certainly it would have to be a rising or high pass. Like I said, the degree of difficulty would've been very high, and Chris would've had to make a Chris Carter type of catch to stay inbounds.

But the deflection steered the ball back inside and took a lot of speed off of it, allowing the INT. But if the ball isn't deflected, and Baker was actually aiming at the sideline in front of Chris, that's your window. A pretty small window, but it's there.

I mean, look at Godwin in that still (not a fan of stills but whatever); he's putting on the brakes a good 3-4 yards before the sideline? If that pass isn't deflected, he's still running to the sideline. And the pass was deflected; move that ball about 4 yards farther downfield and about 2 yards outside in that pic. Now how does it look?

[Bootz]

So honest question. Let's say the ball isnt tipped. Explain how you're expecting Godwin to get this ball when he's behind 2 Eagles defenders? 1 of which is 6'4 and both of which are in excellent position to break on the ball and make a play on it...

The pass had to be thrown outside and either layered over the first defender or a dart, a high dart. either way, it was going to be a high velocity throw to the sideline directly in front of Godwin. And almost certainly it would have to be a rising or high pass. Like I said, the degree of difficulty would've been very high, and Chris would've had to make a Chris Carter type of catch to stay inbounds.

But the deflection steered the ball back inside and took a lot of speed off of it, allowing the INT. But if the ball isn't deflected, and Baker was actually aiming at the sideline in front of Chris, that's your window. A pretty small window, but it's there.

I mean, look at Godwin in that still (not a fan of stills but whatever); he's putting on the brakes a good 3-4 yards before the sideline? If that pass isn't deflected, he's still running to the sideline. And the pass was deflected; move that ball about 4 yards farther downfield and about 2 yards outside in that pic. Now how does it look?

Here's the pick.



Let's break this down because what you're suggesting defies the laws of physics. Campbell makes this pick diving laterally towards the pylon. You're saying the ball would've been further OUTSIDE of that if not for the tip, somehow around Campbell AND Ringo, who had at that point caught up to Godwin. At the trajectory you're suggesting wouldve happened, the ball would be out of bounds.

I think 1 critical factor people are ignoring for some odd reason are the defenders. Ringo & Campbell aren't statues standing in the same spot. Both were working torwards that side of the and as seen had more than enough time to make up ground to make a play on the ball. Plus, again, Campbell is 6'4 with a wide wingspan. This idea that somehow the ball would've gone past him and I guess curve back to Godwin defies logic and physics. Just doesn't make sense.

Even in the still, Campbell is only a few feet to the inside of Godwin and running his direction. He can make up that ground.

[Pirate Life]

Concerning the INT play, when i watched the A-22 a few minutes ago, there was definitely a window for Baker to get the ball to Godwin, if not for the deflection. But within the context of the situation (1st down, broken play, etc.), i still don't like the decision. But at least Baker wasn't throwing into double coverage or something equally frustrating. Godwin was open, but it would've taken an extremely difficult and accurate layered throw over the first defender and just OOB (requiring Godwin to have to tip-toe to stay in) while trying to evade the rush and off-platform. But the window was there.

But because of that degree of difficulty, Baker needed to throw that one away and try to get an easier situation in the next three snaps, imo.

So honest question. Let's say the ball isnt tipped. Explain how you're expecting Godwin to get this ball when he's behind 2 Eagles defenders? 1 of which is 6'4 and both of which are in excellent position to break on the ball and make a play on it...

Sideline either high or low and out of bounds like this throw last season;

https://www.buccaneers.com/video/baker- ... -2024-2025#

Doubtful either defender there makes a break on the ball in time, both would need to cover around 8-10 yards in maybe a second. They both have 1.5+ 10 yard splits and are almost at a dead stop guarding Otton. Mukuba (the one singled out in your first post) was supposed to stay with Godwin but loses him in the wash and gets lazy).

Mayfield’s pass in the McMillan video linked covers about three times the yards in about 2.5 seconds conservatively. Deon may have trouble breaking to the ball without the tip.

[Bootz]

So honest question. Let's say the ball isnt tipped. Explain how you're expecting Godwin to get this ball when he's behind 2 Eagles defenders? 1 of which is 6'4 and both of which are in excellent position to break on the ball and make a play on it...

Sideline either high or low and out of bounds like this throw last season;

https://www.buccaneers.com/video/baker- ... -2024-2025#

Doubtful either defender there makes a break on the ball in time, both would need to cover around 8-10 yards in maybe a second. They both have 1.5+ 10 yard splits and are almost at a dead stop guarding Otton. Mukuba (the one singled out in your first post) was supposed to stay with Godwin but loses him in the wash and gets lazy).

Mayfield’s pass in the McMillan video linked covers about three times the yards in about 2.5 seconds conservatively. Deon may have trouble breaking to the ball without the tip.

HOLD UP!



You think Godwin is 8-10 yards away from the defenders?! If you do, then there's no point in the discussion because you're not being honest. Might be 8-10 feet, but no way in hell is that 8-10 yards.

[__Chef__]

I don't get the argument. We have no idea where the ball was being thrown because it was tipped. Pretending Godwin had no shot at a ball even with defenders on him is ridiculous, never mind when he has clear separation.

[Pirate Life]

Sideline either high or low and out of bounds like this throw last season;

https://www.buccaneers.com/video/baker- ... -2024-2025#

Doubtful either defender there makes a break on the ball in time, both would need to cover around 8-10 yards in maybe a second. They both have 1.5+ 10 yard splits and are almost at a dead stop guarding Otton. Mukuba (the one singled out in your first post) was supposed to stay with Godwin but loses him in the wash and gets lazy).

Mayfield’s pass in the McMillan video linked covers about three times the yards in about 2.5 seconds conservatively. Deon may have trouble breaking to the ball without the tip.

HOLD UP!



You think Godwin is 8-10 yards away from the defenders?! If you do, then there's no point in the discussion because you're not being honest. Might be 8-10 feet, but no way in hell is that 8-10 yards.

You don’t read the tweets posted do you?



And if Campbell is 6 foot four, that’s more than one and a half of him away from Godwin.

[Pirate Life]

Also, don’t ever question my honesty.

[Bootz]

HOLD UP!



You think Godwin is 8-10 yards away from the defenders?! If you do, then there's no point in the discussion because you're not being honest. Might be 8-10 feet, but no way in hell is that 8-10 yards.

You don’t read the tweets posted do you?



And if Campbell is 6 foot four, that’s more than one and a half of him away from Godwin.

If either of you think that's 10 yards away, come buy my cabin in the St. Pete Beach mountain. I'll actually pay you for it.

Sorry, I refuse to debate with people who can't be honest. Film dont lie and that ain't 30 feet.


And for the record, 10 yards would be a little more than 4 Jihad Campbell's away. Not 1 and a half.

[Pirate Life]

You don’t read the tweets posted do you?



And if Campbell is 6 foot four, that’s more than one and a half of him away from Godwin.

If either of you think that's 10 yards away, come buy my cabin in the St. Pete Beach mountain. I'll actually pay you for it.

Sorry, I refuse to debate with people who can't be honest. Film dont lie and that ain't 30 feet.


And for the record, 10 yards would be a little more than 4 Jihad Campbell's away. Not 1 and a half.

Calm down, it’s affecting your reading comprehension. I said if they were 8-10 feet away that would be 1 and a half of him, not that he’s 15 feet tall.

And you are right, like me film doesn’t lie. That’s way more than 8-10 feet. It’s a helluva lot closer to 30 than 8 to 10 feet. Can see that just from Campbell’s shadow.

[Bootz]

If either of you think that's 10 yards away, come buy my cabin in the St. Pete Beach mountain. I'll actually pay you for it.

Sorry, I refuse to debate with people who can't be honest. Film dont lie and that ain't 30 feet.


And for the record, 10 yards would be a little more than 4 Jihad Campbell's away. Not 1 and a half.

Calm down, it’s affecting your reading comprehension. I said if they were 8-10 feet away that would be 1 and a half of him, not that he’s 15 feet tall.

And you are right, like me film doesn’t lie. That’s way more than 8-10 feet. It’s a helluva lot closer to 30 than 8 to 10 feet. Can see that just from Campbell’s shadow.

You think it'll take 4 more of those shadows to reach Godwin. Yea, we're done here.

[Pirate Life]

Boots, look at the photo. There is an Eagle defender at the 10 yard line. Distance from him to Campbell is slightly more than it is from Campbell to Godwin. Godwin’s already breaking towards the tipped ball in this pic. He was a step or two further back a second or so before this. Campbell is moving laterally about a foot or so into the endzone.

So yes, 8-10 yards.

[Sooner06]

The pass had to be thrown outside and either layered over the first defender or a dart, a high dart. either way, it was going to be a high velocity throw to the sideline directly in front of Godwin. And almost certainly it would have to be a rising or high pass. Like I said, the degree of difficulty would've been very high, and Chris would've had to make a Chris Carter type of catch to stay inbounds.

But the deflection steered the ball back inside and took a lot of speed off of it, allowing the INT. But if the ball isn't deflected, and Baker was actually aiming at the sideline in front of Chris, that's your window. A pretty small window, but it's there.

I mean, look at Godwin in that still (not a fan of stills but whatever); he's putting on the brakes a good 3-4 yards before the sideline? If that pass isn't deflected, he's still running to the sideline. And the pass was deflected; move that ball about 4 yards farther downfield and about 2 yards outside in that pic. Now how does it look?

Here's the pick.



Let's break this down because what you're suggesting defies the laws of physics. Campbell makes this pick diving laterally towards the pylon. You're saying the ball would've been further OUTSIDE of that if not for the tip, somehow around Campbell AND Ringo, who had at that point caught up to Godwin. At the trajectory you're suggesting wouldve happened, the ball would be out of bounds.

I think 1 critical factor people are ignoring for some odd reason are the defenders. Ringo & Campbell aren't statues standing in the same spot. Both were working torwards that side of the and as seen had more than enough time to make up ground to make a play on the ball. Plus, again, Campbell is 6'4 with a wide wingspan. This idea that somehow the ball would've gone past him and I guess curve back to Godwin defies logic and physics. Just doesn't make sense.

Even in the still, Campbell is only a few feet to the inside of Godwin and running his direction. He can make up that ground.

Yeah, that angle just doesn't give the proper perspective. And somehow i think you're misunderstanding what I posted above.

And one thing you seem to have forgotten is that the ball would've covered that ground a lot faster had it not been tipped. Again, look at the photo you presented above, and move the ball about 4-5 yards father down field to about the 10-yd line, and to the left/towards the sideline right about in-line with/or outside of the shadow of the ball or so. Now Godwin isn't breaking down and trying to get back inside; he's still going to the sideline which is where the ball will meet him. If that pass isn't deflected and is carrying the normal velocity Baker put on it, I don't think either 30something or 24 has enough time to defend/intercept it.

Or, Baker could've thrown more towards the back pylon, putting some air under it and now neither defender has any shot at getting their hands on it.



Again, watch the A-22. byt not on your phone. Watch it on a real screen.

Godwin is open if that pass isn't deflected. Both that pic and the A-22 tight POV make that pretty clear. I just don't like the decision because of the degree of difficulty and the fact that it was 1st down. On 4th down you trigger that pass, sure, but not on 1st down, imo.

[Pirate Life]

Yeah, that angle just doesn't give the proper perspective. And somehow i think you're misunderstanding what I posted above.

Bootz won’t admit he’s wrong. Closest he gets is accusing people of lying and dipping out when he realizes it.

[Sooner06]

Yeah, that angle just doesn't give the proper perspective. And somehow i think you're misunderstanding what I posted above.

Bootz won’t admit he’s wrong. Closest he gets is accusing people of lying and dipping out when he realizes it.

Meh. I mean, none of us really know where Baker was throwing that ball, because it was tipped. we're just guessing at this point. So I don't have an issue with arguing about it.

I'm just suggesting that the only logical place to throw that ball is to the sideline directly to Godwin's left, probably about 1-2 feet above his head and maybe even somewhat OOB. Throwing it inside of Godwin or even to where Godwin is actually breaking down in that still frame is just illogical, so I think the only place to go with that pass is where I said, outside and high.

And if Baker isn't being chased, or let's just say that in an alternate universe Baker isn't pressured on this play and he just hits his back foot at the top of his drop hitches and fires, well that's not a very difficult throw for Baker at all. Or any starting QB that has a good arm for that matter. wouldn't be that different from throwing a 15 yd out, which is a throw well within Baker's abilities.

the problem was that he was forced out of the pocket, and people were chasing him, and the ball was tipped, in this reality. Given all of that, and that it was in fact 1st down, I would rather he just flicked that one OOB and lived to try again over the next three snaps, that's all.


But the A-22 is pretty definitive; Godwin was open for a couple seconds/1.xxx seconds, and there was a throw that could've resulted in a TD. just didn't work out that way.

[Noles1724]

Gotta say this is a classic IABL football thread..bootz vs everyone.. everyone not realizing bootz puts feet in sand with zero chance of enlightenment or logical objectivity swaying his holy truth.

Really good stuff

[Doctor]

There's no reason to believe Baker couldn't have made that throw if not tipped or at the very least he's earned the right to try.

[BucsNBills]

Boots, look at the photo. There is an Eagle defender at the 10 yard line. Distance from him to Campbell is slightly more than it is from Campbell to Godwin. Godwin’s already breaking towards the tipped ball in this pic. He was a step or two further back a second or so before this. Campbell is moving laterally about a foot or so into the endzone.

So yes, 8-10 yards.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious when using the player at the 10 yard mark as a guide. When Baker threw the ball, Godwin was WAY open and nine times out of ten that's a TD. Just got bad luck with the tipped ball. Josh Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Burrow, they all make that pass and they all get it picked off with a tipped ball.

[mdb1958]

Whatever they want to call is fine. As long as the same rules apply to everyone. If Yoda backpack defense is good with the league, then I expect Todd Bowles to drill it into our DBs.

Speaking of, it's been very refreshing seeing our guys playing tighter defense this year.

That's the thing. WE DO IT TOO.

Fans just love being miserable, bitching and complaining that the league has it out for us for some unknown reason to them after we lose.



Where's the outrage here on a clear hold from Barton? If you're gonna bitch about penalties don't just stop on the ones that benefit you.

Is that the Bucs last play of their offense?

[Grahamburn]

Boots, look at the photo. There is an Eagle defender at the 10 yard line. Distance from him to Campbell is slightly more than it is from Campbell to Godwin. Godwin’s already breaking towards the tipped ball in this pic. He was a step or two further back a second or so before this. Campbell is moving laterally about a foot or so into the endzone.

So yes, 8-10 yards.

Now about that cabin?

[Primeminister]

Boots, look at the photo. There is an Eagle defender at the 10 yard line. Distance from him to Campbell is slightly more than it is from Campbell to Godwin. Godwin’s already breaking towards the tipped ball in this pic. He was a step or two further back a second or so before this. Campbell is moving laterally about a foot or so into the endzone.

So yes, 8-10 yards.

This is fair and logical AF

[Grahamburn]

Boots, look at the photo. There is an Eagle defender at the 10 yard line. Distance from him to Campbell is slightly more than it is from Campbell to Godwin. Godwin’s already breaking towards the tipped ball in this pic. He was a step or two further back a second or so before this. Campbell is moving laterally about a foot or so into the endzone.

So yes, 8-10 yards.

This is fair and logical AF

You can also see Godwin already slowing down because the trajectory of the ball has changed. It's probably a TD if it isn't tipped. Unfortunately, it was. Baker probably should have eaten it. I was yelling "throw it away!" at the TV.

[mdb1958]

first two seconds he had time to zip the ball but hesitation kills.

[13F11B]

[Doctor]

Holding in the trenches is not the same as holding in the backfield. One happens all the time, the other has 2 feet of white jersey to clearly signal it's happening.