Bucs vs Saints discussion

[Phantom]

Grizz needs to open up the playbook more.

[Phantom]

The look-ahead line for this divisional rivalry was Tampa Bay Buccaneers -6.5. In the wake of Monday’s loss to the Lions, that spread re-opened at Bucs -5.5 and was bet down to -4.5 with early opinion on the New Orleans Saints.

[Xandtar]

I got nothin

[Bootz]

Falcons. Bijan-100+ yards and a TD
Texans. Nico Collins- 50+ yards & TD
Jets. Garrett Wilson- 80+ yards & TD
Eagles. Saquan- 70+ yards & TD
Seahawks. JSN- 130+ yards & TD
49ers. CMC- 110+ yards & TD
Lions. Gibbs- 215+ yards & 2 TDs/St Brown 85+ yards & a TD

Will it be Olave or Kamara? Or both?

[Phantom]

Falcons. Bijan-100+ yards and a TD
Texans. Nico Collins- 50+ yards & TD
Jets. Garrett Wilson- 80+ yards & TD
Eagles. Saquan- 70+ yards & TD
Seahawks. JSN- 130+ yards & TD
49ers. CMC- 110+ yards & TD
Lions. Gibbs- 215+ yards & 2 TDs/St Brown 85+ yards & a TD

Will it be Olave or Kamara? Or both?

Kamara

[acmillis]

Falcons. Bijan-100+ yards and a TD
Texans. Nico Collins- 50+ yards & TD
Jets. Garrett Wilson- 80+ yards & TD
Eagles. Saquan- 70+ yards & TD
Seahawks. JSN- 130+ yards & TD
49ers. CMC- 110+ yards & TD
Lions. Gibbs- 215+ yards & 2 TDs/St Brown 85+ yards & a TD

Will it be Olave or Kamara? Or both?

Does it matter that those players have balled out but lost all but two of those games? Haven't you said that stats are for losers?

[Bootz]

Falcons. Bijan-100+ yards and a TD
Texans. Nico Collins- 50+ yards & TD
Jets. Garrett Wilson- 80+ yards & TD
Eagles. Saquan- 70+ yards & TD
Seahawks. JSN- 130+ yards & TD
49ers. CMC- 110+ yards & TD
Lions. Gibbs- 215+ yards & 2 TDs/St Brown 85+ yards & a TD

Will it be Olave or Kamara? Or both?

Does it matter that those players have balled out but lost all but two of those games? Haven't you said that stats are for losers?

Wow, can't believe this has to be explained. But I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not really about the stats. Bigger picture its about how hard are you making it for your opponent to make plays. Smart teams do what they can to eliminate the biggest threat. Bowles does not. Now we've lucked out in 4 of those 5 wins to have last second Ws. But we didn't make things hard for their best players.

It makes you wonder what is the game plan defensively? Is Bowles designing a plan to stop their best options or is he simply say "Ah, who cares what happens? We got Baker". For the majority of this season it's been the latter.

This really shouldn't be a difficult concept for you of all people to comprehend. But I've made the mistake of overestimating people's intelligence around here far too often.

[acmillis]

Does it matter that those players have balled out but lost all but two of those games? Haven't you said that stats are for losers?

Wow, can't believe this has to be explained. But I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not really about the stats. Bigger picture its about how hard are you making it for your opponent to make plays. Smart teams do what they can to eliminate the biggest threat. Bowles does not. Now we've lucked out in 4 of those 5 wins to have last second Ws. But we didn't make things hard for their best players.

It makes you wonder what is the game plan defensively? Is Bowles designing a plan to stop their best options or is he simply say "Ah, who cares what happens? We got Baker". For the majority of this season it's been the latter.

This really shouldn't be a difficult concept for you of all people to comprehend. But I've made the mistake of overestimating people's intelligence around here far too often.

Jesus...who pissed in your cornflakes this morning. Also:
We held Bijan to 2 yards per carry and we allowed him less than his average yards per game this season. You're bitching about us handling him better than his "average" day.
Nico Collins 50 yards is bad?
We held Saquan to 2.3 yards per carry and only allowed him a total of 74 yards...pretty damn good.
JSN destroyed us.
Gibbs destroyed us.
CMC? We held him to 3.2 yards per carry and only allowed him a total of 111 yards, again, like Bijan, much less than his per game average.

You're bitching for no reason whatsoever and calling people names because you're an immature whiner who can never admit he is wrong.

[Backside]

Win this (comfortably ideally) and we’ll feel good going into the bye week. It will be a long week of feeling like shit, everyone talking about the smoke and mirrors act finally being exposed, some of us may even be thinking that way. But it’s a week to week league. 6-2 would give us two weeks of being better off than anyone thought we’d be going into the bye.

Lose this and… it’s gonna be rough. Two weeks of dooming. Saints are better than their record and are due for a nice win at some point. We are the far superior team, but gotta show up to win. No better example of how razor thin the NFL margins are than last night. A bunch of backups are still players good enough to be hanging around the NFL waiting for their moment. That motivation along with good coaching and gameplan and suddenly the third and fourth stringers destroy everything we try to do on offense all night. Hosting the division leaders is the closest thing to a meaningful game the Saints will play all year, they will show up to play. Not to mention we completely whooped their ass in New Orleans last year, they will remember that. We already saw Rattler give this D fits at the end of the season last year. He’s improved since then. He’ll dink and dunk all the way down the field if we let him.

[Bootz]

Wow, can't believe this has to be explained. But I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not really about the stats. Bigger picture its about how hard are you making it for your opponent to make plays. Smart teams do what they can to eliminate the biggest threat. Bowles does not. Now we've lucked out in 4 of those 5 wins to have last second Ws. But we didn't make things hard for their best players.

It makes you wonder what is the game plan defensively? Is Bowles designing a plan to stop their best options or is he simply say "Ah, who cares what happens? We got Baker". For the majority of this season it's been the latter.

This really shouldn't be a difficult concept for you of all people to comprehend. But I've made the mistake of overestimating people's intelligence around here far too often.

Jesus...who pissed in your cornflakes this morning. Also:
We held Bijan to 2 yards per carry and we allowed him less than his average yards per game this season. You're bitching about us handling him better than his "average" day.
Nico Collins 50 yards is bad?
We held Saquan to 2.3 yards per carry and only allowed him a total of 74 yards...pretty damn good.
JSN destroyed us.
Gibbs destroyed us.
CMC? We held him to 3.2 yards per carry and only allowed him a total of 111 yards, again, like Bijan, much less than his per game average.

You're bitching for no reason whatsoever and calling people names because you're an immature whiner who can never admit he is wrong.

Idiots like you who need simple things explained to them because their too dumb to comprehend. That's who pissed in my cornflakes.

And the fact that you have to nitpick the numbers proves my point here. Again, its much more to do with game planning to take the biggest threat out of the game. Shouldn't be hard to understand but you've proven to me I overestimated you.

My bad, kiddo.

[acmillis]

Jesus...who pissed in your cornflakes this morning. Also:
We held Bijan to 2 yards per carry and we allowed him less than his average yards per game this season. You're bitching about us handling him better than his "average" day.
Nico Collins 50 yards is bad?
We held Saquan to 2.3 yards per carry and only allowed him a total of 74 yards...pretty damn good.
JSN destroyed us.
Gibbs destroyed us.
CMC? We held him to 3.2 yards per carry and only allowed him a total of 111 yards, again, like Bijan, much less than his per game average.

You're bitching for no reason whatsoever and calling people names because you're an immature whiner who can never admit he is wrong.

Idiots like you who need simple things explained to them because their too dumb to comprehend. That's who pissed in my cornflakes.

And the fact that you have to nitpick the numbers proves my point here. Again, its much more to do with game planning to take the biggest threat out of the game. Shouldn't be hard to understand but you've proven to me I overestimated you.

My bad, kiddo.

What do you mean by nitpick? I looked up their stats in the game against us and their games against other teams and responded to your post. When someone posts a rebuttal to one of your posts, it isn't a personal attack, no need to take it as one.

Sometimes "holding" an all-pro to "only" 2.3 or 3.2 ypc is a good thing, even if they have receiving yards. These two statements can be true and coexist.

[Bootz]

Idiots like you who need simple things explained to them because their too dumb to comprehend. That's who pissed in my cornflakes.

And the fact that you have to nitpick the numbers proves my point here. Again, its much more to do with game planning to take the biggest threat out of the game. Shouldn't be hard to understand but you've proven to me I overestimated you.

My bad, kiddo.

What do you mean by nitpick? I looked up their stats in the game against us and their games against other teams and responded to your post. When someone posts a rebuttal to one of your posts, it isn't a personal attack, no need to take it as one.

Sometimes "holding" an all-pro to "only" 2.3 or 3.2 ypc is a good thing, even if they have receiving yards. These two statements can be true and coexist.

Like I said, you're too dumb to comprehend the bigger picture. This is so far over your head and you continue to prove it

[acmillis]

What do you mean by nitpick? I looked up their stats in the game against us and their games against other teams and responded to your post. When someone posts a rebuttal to one of your posts, it isn't a personal attack, no need to take it as one.

Sometimes "holding" an all-pro to "only" 2.3 or 3.2 ypc is a good thing, even if they have receiving yards. These two statements can be true and coexist.

Like I said, you're too dumb to comprehend the bigger picture. This is so far over your head and you continue to prove it

Thanks for always being that positive board influence year after year, you're a true ray of sunshine in the dark!

[__Chef__]

Like I said, you're too dumb to comprehend the bigger picture. This is so far over your head and you continue to prove it

Thanks for always being that positive board influence year after year, you're a true ray of sunshine in the dark!

[Bootz]

[Bootz]

Like I said, you're too dumb to comprehend the bigger picture. This is so far over your head and you continue to prove it

Thanks for always being that positive board influence year after year, you're a true ray of sunshine in the dark!

You're welcome. Glad you understand that you need me a hell of a lot more than I need you.

[acmillis]

Thanks for always being that positive board influence year after year, you're a true ray of sunshine in the dark!

You're welcome. Glad you understand that you need me a hell of a lot more than I need you.

[Grahamburn]

Run it 30+ times. Baker under 30 throws. High percentage stuff. Easy schemed up throws off play action. Bring back the motion and creativity we had in Seattle and against SF.

Make Rattler uncomfortable and continue getting turnovers.

[13F11B]

Thanks for always being that positive board influence year after year, you're a true ray of sunshine in the dark!

You're welcome. Glad you understand that you need me a hell of a lot more than I need you.

I will be clearer. There are times you are a fucking jerk who loves to make bad situations worse.

[Pirate Life]

Can’t let Heck or Jordan play meaningful snaps on offense again.

[Bootz]

Can’t let Heck or Jordan play meaningful snaps on offense again.

Bowles praised Jordan for his game last night.You know where this is going.

[Bootz]

You're welcome. Glad you understand that you need me a hell of a lot more than I need you.

I will be clearer. There are times you are a fucking jerk who loves to make bad situations worse.

Situations I don't start BTW.

[acmillis]

I will be clearer. There are times you are a fucking jerk who loves to make bad situations worse.

Situations I don't start BTW.

[Moozician]

Does it matter that those players have balled out but lost all but two of those games? Haven't you said that stats are for losers?

Wow, can't believe this has to be explained. But I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not really about the stats. Bigger picture its about how hard are you making it for your opponent to make plays. Smart teams do what they can to eliminate the biggest threat. Bowles does not. Now we've lucked out in 4 of those 5 wins to have last second Ws. But we didn't make things hard for their best players.

It makes you wonder what is the game plan defensively? Is Bowles designing a plan to stop their best options or is he simply say "Ah, who cares what happens? We got Baker". For the majority of this season it's been the latter.

This really shouldn't be a difficult concept for you of all people to comprehend. But I've made the mistake of overestimating people's intelligence around here far too often.

Brutal, but may damn well be the truth. You're the football brain. I can't figure this shit out.

[Bootz]

Situations I don't start BTW.

You know it's true. Just look at the crumb trails you're leaving behind, kiddo.

[Bootz]

Wow, can't believe this has to be explained. But I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not really about the stats. Bigger picture its about how hard are you making it for your opponent to make plays. Smart teams do what they can to eliminate the biggest threat. Bowles does not. Now we've lucked out in 4 of those 5 wins to have last second Ws. But we didn't make things hard for their best players.

It makes you wonder what is the game plan defensively? Is Bowles designing a plan to stop their best options or is he simply say "Ah, who cares what happens? We got Baker". For the majority of this season it's been the latter.

This really shouldn't be a difficult concept for you of all people to comprehend. But I've made the mistake of overestimating people's intelligence around here far too often.

Brutal, but may damn well be the truth. You're the football brain. I can't figure this shit out.

I can't figure it out either. Most defenses spend their week trying to take the biggest threat out of the game. And while they do not always succeed, they at least game plan. Last week, Spags refused to let Amon Ra St. Brown have his way vs the Chiefs secondary. They consistently shaded coverage to where he was on the field, kept everything in front of them and rallied to make tackles. 9 catches for 45 yards.


Bowles starts the game off covering St Brown 1 on 1 in man with a rookie NB. Easy TD.

It's a week after week thing.

[Buc2]

Fuck the Saints.

[Backside]

I mean I think the point has some merit, but just listing it all out like that is something every team could do after a game, right? Someone on the other team always plays well and puts up some stats.

Nico Collins had 3 catches on 9 targets for 52 yards. One 29 yard TD that was perfectly executed against good defense. Otherwise he had 2 catches on 8 targets for 23 yards. To me that’s the defense shutting him down way more than letting him have his way.

Barkley Bijan and CMC were totally bottled up on the ground, that’s what you wanted to do. They did all manage to be effective in the passing game, but that tends to happen when a huge defensive weakness is coverage in the flats and short yardage. CMC made some catches but honestly it wasn’t near as bad as I expected, and instead it was disappointing how we let Mac gash us for big chunk plays to his WRs. So you could easily argue we contained CMC decently enough and it cost us in other areas on defense.

Wilson was the only guy they threw too, and we were up huge in that game before it got super weird. I wouldn’t say it was a gameplan failure.

Bijan and Gibbs got huge receiving plays, The defensive stops were there to be made and the guys failed to bring them down, weakness positions for us vs great players in space with the ball, it happens. Gibbs got well over half his rushing yards on one great run. And even with an 80 yarder mixed in they barely got to a 5YPC average. Montgomery averaged 1.2. One busted play but otherwise the run D was great.

Saquon ‘70+ yards and a TD’ when the list is supposed to be guys who owned us that the gameplan failed to contain just doesn’t fly. 74 total yards and a score is a mediocre at best game for Barkley, and he took 23 touches to get those meager numbers. They were completely shut down offensively in the second half. In no way did we lose because we couldn’t contain Barkley.

So my point is that list is not exactly telling a full story about our defensive failings.

[Bootz]

Very interesting that people don't do that nitpicking of numbers when it comes to our guys. It just is what the numbers say. Very interesting people care so much NOW.

[Backside]

Very interesting that people don't do that nitpicking of numbers when it comes to our guys. It just is what the numbers say. Very interesting people care so much NOW.

Is this directed at me? Because I don’t really get what you’re trying to say here. How is it nitpicking? What does ‘when it comes to our guys’ mean in this context?

You want to post a list so you can proclaim that Bowles never gameplans to take away the top threats on the other team but several of your examples don’t really hold water to make that point. Don’t think it’s nitpicking to point that out.

[Bootz]

Very interesting that people don't do that nitpicking of numbers when it comes to our guys. It just is what the numbers say. Very interesting people care so much NOW.

Is this directed at me? Because I don’t really get what you’re trying to say here. How is it nitpicking? What does ‘when it comes to our guys’ mean in this context?

You want to post a list so you can proclaim that Bowles never gameplans to take away the top threats on the other team but several of your examples don’t really hold water to make that point. Don’t think it’s nitpicking to point that out.

So you think that this proves that he does?

[acmillis]

I’m rubber, you’re glue.

[Bootz]

I’m rubber, you’re glue.

At least others are ATTEMPTING to discuss the topic. All you have are short quips and gifs. Move on, dumbass. That version of this community is dead. There's way more people here now that understand and discuss football than before. I know you're part of the old guard, but I'd expect something would've rubbed off on you by now other than stupidity.

[Backside]

Is this directed at me? Because I don’t really get what you’re trying to say here. How is it nitpicking? What does ‘when it comes to our guys’ mean in this context?

You want to post a list so you can proclaim that Bowles never gameplans to take away the top threats on the other team but several of your examples don’t really hold water to make that point. Don’t think it’s nitpicking to point that out.

So you think that this proves that he does?

I think it’s a much more nuanced discussion than simply posting a list of guys who put up the best stats against us in a given game. Especially when you’re forced to include names like Nico Collins and Saquon Barkley who absolutely did not decimate some inferior defensive gameplan in the games we played against them.

I think Bowles prioritizes stopping the run over anything and sometimes to a fault. The personnel he’s working with is definitely a part of that, just like it’s a part of inferior pass coverage especially in the short yardage against RBs

I am not some Bowles apologist, his defense frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. And I won’t pretend I know all the possible adjustments or things he could do differently to help the defense. He’s much more knowledgable about defensive gameplans than you or I will ever be.

But I see that list posted every week and the point you make based on the list, and the stats provided on the list have never really seemed like they match up with each other to me, especially when the greater context of the game is considered.

[Bootz]

So you think that this proves that he does?

I think it’s a much more nuanced discussion than simply posting a list of guys who put up the best stats against us in a given game. Especially when you’re forced to include names like Nico Collins and Saquon Barkley who absolutely did not decimate some inferior defensive gameplan in the games we played against them.

I think Bowles prioritizes stopping the run over anything and sometimes to a fault. The personnel he’s working with is definitely a part of that, just like it’s a part of inferior pass coverage especially in the short yardage against RBs

I am not some Bowles apologist, his defense frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. And I won’t pretend I know all the possible adjustments or things he could do differently to help the defense. He’s much more knowledgable about defensive gameplans than you or I will ever be.

But I see that list posted every week and the point you make based on the list, and the stats provided on the list have never really seemed like they match up with each other to me, especially when the greater context of the game is considered.

You tried your hardest to make whatever point you were looking for and FAILED.

And it really isnt a nuanced discussion, like people here try to make everything seem when you don't understand. Does Bowles make a concerted effort to stop the other teams best weapons? Results show he really doesn't. You confirm you dont believe he does. You said he prioritizes stopping the run. Would kinda dictate that a real effort isn't put into the top weapon impacting the game, which each one here has.