Todd Bowles is a fucking fraud

[MJW]

I'll be fine with Bowles as long as there's none of that crap. Let Brady do his thing so long as he and Lefty are on the same page. Leave that alone, it's the GOAT for God's sake. Focus on halftime adjustments defensively.

There's no reason the season needs to fall off a cliff. The timing of the move and bitterness of the worst blitz in team history is just fresh.

This is still a very good team and have the fortune that we should sweep our division this year

People are only pretending to be mad at the blitz because it didn't work. Truth is it didn't work because multiple guys didn't execute.

If Lavonte David actually attempts his assignment instead of just standing in space, MAYBE Stafford is off target or rushed a bit and maybe it's a different conversation today.

We'll never know. But 1 play shouldn't decide the fate of a coach. No one seemed to mind that before getting the Broncos job, Nathaniel Hackett's offense mustered 7 points in his final game as Packers OC. Or that before getting the Bears job Matt Eburfluss'(spell check) last time as Colts DC was his defense getting carved up by the "high powered" Jags offense.

Bowles was put in this position from the start to take over 1 day. I think everyone pretty much knew it too.

I agree, one play shouldn't decide the fate of a coach. I don't see that call as reflecting on whether or not Bowles is the right guy to be our coach.

But you're implying the execution was the only reason that play call didn't work out. I disagree with that. If it HAD worked out, it STILL wouldn't have been a good idea, because scheming yourself into a one on one between a safety and a guy who broke some of Jerry Rice's records this year, when all you really have to do at that point is prevent a big play, is buttfucking insane. Especially when you're scheming against literally the best quarterback against the blitz in the NFL throwing to one of the best single coverage receivers in the NFL.

Sorry, it was indefensible. It would have been indefensible if it had worked.

[Doctor]

Some extra context on that play

He's 100% right. The killer play was the one before where the SMB fell down and literally no one talks about it.
If you actually remember the play before that we got the sack that would've taken us to OT if not for the Rams last time out.

Rams got us with the fake huddle and execution on the following play, plain and simple. People can get mad at Bowles being aggressive there and trying to end regulation with another sack (or better force a turnover to give Brady the ball at midfield), but I don't. I much prefer losing a game betting aggressively on our strengths than sitting back and hoping the other team falls short.

Either way, this horse is long dead.

[King Bootz]

I've said it for over a decade on these boards: It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

[Doctor]

Not to mention, iirc, they were showing the telestrator at the time so no one got to see the run up to the play. By the time they cut back to the play Stafford was throwing the ball. They faked out the tv crew too.

[Tnbandwagoner]

So all that poop about Licht being a good GM...yeah, I think we can safely put that to rest now.

This is easily the worst HC hire any contender team in the NFL has made in a decade, probably multiple decades. Just mind-bogglingly incompetent, negligent, and just generally a half-assed abnegation of his obligation to the players and other coaches of this team. And it’s a huge FU to the fans because he would have to be even dumber than he appears at present to assume we don’t know what a catastrophically bad hire this is.

You just got the GOAT back and then you pull this? Really unconscionable.

It will be hard to beat Urban Meyer.

I would agree with you had I not qualified it by saying the worst hire for a contender team. Worst hire overall probably goes to Meyer. I just can't think of a worse hire for a team that's a favorite to make the Super Bowl.

[MJW]

I've said it for over a decade on these boards: It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

I saw the league's best WR in single coverage against a safety because we blitzed against the best QB in the league against the blitz . I saw that because that's what happened.

The whole "Dumb fans don't understand 4D chess!" thing doesn't work when you fail.

[King Bootz]

I've said it for over a decade on these boards: It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

I saw the league's best WR in single coverage against a safety because we blitzed against the best QB in the league against the blitz . I saw that because that's what happened.

The whole "Dumb fans don't understand 4D chess!" thing doesn't work when you fail.

Again...

It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

[Doctor]

I've said it for over a decade on these boards: It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

I saw the league's best WR in single coverage against a safety because we blitzed against the best QB in the league against the blitz . I saw that because that's what happened.

The whole "Dumb fans don't understand 4D chess!" thing doesn't work when you fail.

We get it, why play for a win when you can pray to avoid a loss. We know where you stand.

[MJW]

I saw the league's best WR in single coverage against a safety because we blitzed against the best QB in the league against the blitz . I saw that because that's what happened.

The whole "Dumb fans don't understand 4D chess!" thing doesn't work when you fail.

Again...

It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

I just told you what I saw. I invite you tell me what I was missing. An invisible double team?

[Doctor]

You're missing literally everything leading up to the pass... because they were showing a highlight at the time.

[MJW]

I saw the league's best WR in single coverage against a safety because we blitzed against the best QB in the league against the blitz . I saw that because that's what happened.

The whole "Dumb fans don't understand 4D chess!" thing doesn't work when you fail.

We get it, why play for a win when you can pray to avoid a loss. We know where you stand.

You know the rich, thick irony here?

Blitzing in that situation showed BOWLES was playing not to lose. Because if he actually trusted his secondary to do their jobs, he gives them a chance. And if he actually trusted his rushers, he doesn't feel the need to give them help with more blitzers.

On the larger point, there's A LOT of middle ground between "prevent," which is what you're implying I wanted to see, and "send an aggressive blitz," which is what he did.

In the meantime, we can talk about "riskit biskit" and 4D chess and whatever else you and Bootz like. The league's best wide receiver, running free down the field one on one against a safety, with the league's best QB against the blitz throwing the ball. The end result was a return to draft discussions here in January.

[MJW]

You're missing literally everything leading up to the pass... because they were showing a highlight at the time.

I've seen it. From all angles. Many, many times.

The outcome was, our DC schemed us into Cooper Kupp one on one down the field against a safety.

It's a results business. That was the result of Bowles's call. He blitzes way, way, way more than any other DC in the league. All he has is a hammer, and everything looks like a nail.

[Doctor]

Yeah, he's an aggressive guy. And that aggressiveness took us from being bottom 5 in takeaways in 2018 and middle of the pack in sacks (dead last in 2017) to three years in a row where our worst finishes were #5 in takeaways and #9 in sacks.

Funny how it's all love and praise we're beating Rodgers in the NFCCG despite three INTs from Brady or holding Mahomes to 9 points in the Super Bowl but the moment two all stars make a play after a clever fake huddle the sky is falling.

[The Outsider]

I've said it for over a decade on these boards: It's much easier for fans to blame coaches than it is players because they really don't know what they are seeing.

Oh Vince LomBootzie, will you please teach us more about the footballs?

Pete Pierson doesn't care about black people!

/Kanye

[Tnbandwagoner]

We get it, why play for a win when you can pray to avoid a loss. We know where you stand.

You know the rich, thick irony here?

Blitzing in that situation showed BOWLES was playing not to lose. Because if he actually trusted his secondary to do their jobs, he gives them a chance. And if he actually trusted his rushers, he doesn't feel the need to give them help with more blitzers.

On the larger point, there's A LOT of middle ground between "prevent," which is what you're implying I wanted to see, and "send an aggressive blitz," which is what he did.

In the meantime, we can talk about "riskit biskit" and 4D chess and whatever else you and Bootz like. The league's best wide receiver, running free down the field one on one against a safety, with the league's best QB against the blitz throwing the ball. The end result was a return to draft discussions here in January.

It was an asinine, mindless, indefensible call. You don't have to be a retired NFL DC to see that. It's called basic common sense.

[Tnbandwagoner]

You know the rich, thick irony here?

Blitzing in that situation showed BOWLES was playing not to lose. Because if he actually trusted his secondary to do their jobs, he gives them a chance. And if he actually trusted his rushers, he doesn't feel the need to give them help with more blitzers.

On the larger point, there's A LOT of middle ground between "prevent," which is what you're implying I wanted to see, and "send an aggressive blitz," which is what he did.

In the meantime, we can talk about "riskit biskit" and 4D chess and whatever else you and Bootz like. The league's best wide receiver, running free down the field one on one against a safety, with the league's best QB against the blitz throwing the ball. The end result was a return to draft discussions here in January.

It was an asinine, mindless, indefensible call. You don't have to be a retired NFL DC to see that. It's called basic common sense.

[Buc2]

It was an asinine, mindless, indefensible call. You don't have to be a retired NFL DC to see that. It's called basic common sense.

Dude. You're weird. Are you, by chance, related to mdb?

[kaimaru]

You know the rich, thick irony here?

Blitzing in that situation showed BOWLES was playing not to lose. Because if he actually trusted his secondary to do their jobs, he gives them a chance. And if he actually trusted his rushers, he doesn't feel the need to give them help with more blitzers.

On the larger point, there's A LOT of middle ground between "prevent," which is what you're implying I wanted to see, and "send an aggressive blitz," which is what he did.

In the meantime, we can talk about "riskit biskit" and 4D chess and whatever else you and Bootz like. The league's best wide receiver, running free down the field one on one against a safety, with the league's best QB against the blitz throwing the ball. The end result was a return to draft discussions here in January.

It was an asinine, mindless, indefensible call. You don't have to be a retired NFL DC to see that. It's called basic common sense.

This was literally because they tricked going to huddle, Bowles thinking that DW would have time to communicate his order. This was a cover zero blitz. The corner covering Kupp blitzed, AW should been closer to the line but DW didn't have time to let them know the play. In fact, AW thought he was playing safety as he was watching Stafford and not Kupp as he ran by him. Proabably McVay saw DW running around trying to relay the play and told Stafford quick snap it. It sucks, it hurts, but we honestly don't know what would have happened if everyone was on the same page.

[nybf]

[Snake]

Dude fucking sucks

[Heisenberg]

It was an asinine, mindless, indefensible call. You don't have to be a retired NFL DC to see that. It's called basic common sense.

This was literally because they tricked going to huddle, Bowles thinking that DW would have time to communicate his order. This was a cover zero blitz. The corner covering Kupp blitzed, AW should been closer to the line but DW didn't have time to let them know the play. In fact, AW thought he was playing safety as he was watching Stafford and not Kupp as he ran by him. Proabably McVay saw DW running around trying to relay the play and told Stafford quick snap it. It sucks, it hurts, but we honestly don't know what would have happened if everyone was on the same page.

Having a safety 1on1 with kupp is still dumb fuck coaching

[BucsNBills]

This was literally because they tricked going to huddle, Bowles thinking that DW would have time to communicate his order. This was a cover zero blitz. The corner covering Kupp blitzed, AW should been closer to the line but DW didn't have time to let them know the play. In fact, AW thought he was playing safety as he was watching Stafford and not Kupp as he ran by him. Proabably McVay saw DW running around trying to relay the play and told Stafford quick snap it. It sucks, it hurts, but we honestly don't know what would have happened if everyone was on the same page.

Having a safety 1on1 with kupp is still dumb fuck coaching

As is dropping 350 lineman into coverage. And your best pass rusher. And continuing to use White in ways he's ill equipped to play.

[Digital_Damage]

This thread does not get enough love... we know who he is, why do people keep trying to sell us on him?

[The Outsider]

@6:44 Bowles says we got pass happy, says he'd like to see us run the ball more.



Fire. This. Man.

[MJW]

It was an asinine, mindless, indefensible call. You don't have to be a retired NFL DC to see that. It's called basic common sense.

This was literally because they tricked going to huddle, Bowles thinking that DW would have time to communicate his order. This was a cover zero blitz. The corner covering Kupp blitzed, AW should been closer to the line but DW didn't have time to let them know the play. In fact, AW thought he was playing safety as he was watching Stafford and not Kupp as he ran by him. Proabably McVay saw DW running around trying to relay the play and told Stafford quick snap it. It sucks, it hurts, but we honestly don't know what would have happened if everyone was on the same page.

Late to this response but...

If the argument is that our coaching staff got tricked by the other coaching staff on the most important drive of the season, I'm not sure this is the best argument to defend said coach staff.

[Central_Buc]

Todd "leading us to the Super" Bowles

[tnbandwagoner1]

@6:44 Bowles says we got pass happy, says he'd like to see us run the ball more.



Fire. This. Man.

It really doesn't get any more incompetent than that.

"We got this thing that we're the worst at in the league, the worst of anybody in the league for a few years now, so we need to do that more." Brilliant.

F--- you, Glazers, you negligent shits.

[Nobody]

The problem with the "I'd like to see us run the football more" comment is that its just so generic.

We aren't just a bad running football team because of personnel.

We aren't just a bad running football team because "we don't do it enough."

If you aren't a running-QB-centered, RPO/ZRO/Outside Zone & Boot-heavy offense, then running the football in the modern NFL is about a three things:

1) Savvy personnel grouping deployment in order to (a) run against light boxes and (b) decrease activation of Safeties in the run game (or at least force them to tip their hand so as to either audible or take advantage of that downstream).

2) Related to (1) above, run from light personnel groupings. Why? The running game is so damn sensitive to a single assignment loss (particular a significant one). Adding even a single extra assignment requirement to win on a run play is a huge gamble when you don't need to. Adding 2? Or a 3rd? That is begging for a problem you don't need. That is another reason why Weak side runs have become so much more popular among successful Rushing teams. The less guys involved...the better! So why the hell are you running from 12 or 22 or 13 personnel when you need 1 or 2 yards, damnit! If its 2nd and 2 or 3rd and 1, show 11 personnel, Shotgun and threaten to throw the football! Spread them out, lighten the box, minimize assignments required to get 2 or so and pick up the easy yardage!

3) Give 2nd level defenders and activating Safeties something to stall them in their fits. Give them false keys or set-dressing to make them hesitate for the slightest of moments. That is all you need to win leverage in most cases.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Now do we do any of that?

No. We do not.

We routinely create heavy boxes and activating Safeties with 12 (or even 13) personnel, condensed formations, short motion into the formation on 1st and 10, 2nd and short, 3rd and short!

We maximize numbers thereby actually optimizing for failure points via assignments-required-to-win in the run game!

We not only don't give false keys or set-dressing in the run game! We short motion into the formation and run from that look at a huge rate. We could so easily use that short motion to play-action and Bubble Screen and Bubble Screen Fake > Wheel off of that Fake. We could have an entire suite of fakery off of our rampant short motion into the formation deployment. Every game we could threaten several tendency breakers with huge transaction costs for activating Safeties or getting into run fits early on that short motion into the formation. But we just don't. We "do what we do." And "what we do" just isn't good enough without the GOAT QB playing behind a top 5 OL.

And that isn't even getting into our passing game, which I've talked about so many times, but its so much worse right now because we just aren't generating separation. Gronk + a 100 % Godwin + AB (possibly the greatest separation-generating WR all time) and it doesn't matter if your passing game concepts don't generate separation and overwhelmingly rely upon skill position players winning 1v1s. Remove all of that and then put Mike in the position where he has to identify coverage and run the appropriate Option route (Mike is great at what he does...but identifying coverage and running the appropriate Option route ain't it...he has put the ball in danger so many times these last 3 years under these circumstances...like last game).

[MJW]

The problem with the "I'd like to see us run the football more" comment is that its just so generic.

We aren't just a bad running football team because of personnel.

We aren't just a bad running football team because "we don't do it enough."

If you aren't a running-QB-centered, RPO/ZRO/Outside Zone & Boot-heavy offense, then running the football in the modern NFL is about a three things:

1) Savvy personnel grouping deployment in order to (a) run against light boxes and (b) decrease activation of Safeties in the run game (or at least force them to tip their hand so as to either audible or take advantage of that downstream).

2) Related to (1) above, run from light personnel groupings. Why? The running game is so damn sensitive to a single assignment loss (particular a significant one). Adding even a single extra assignment requirement to win on a run play is a huge gamble when you don't need to. Adding 2? Or a 3rd? That is begging for a problem you don't need. That is another reason why Weak side runs have become so much more popular among successful Rushing teams. The less guys involved...the better! So why the hell are you running from 12 or 22 or 13 personnel when you need 1 or 2 yards, damnit! If its 2nd and 2 or 3rd and 1, show 11 personnel, Shotgun and threaten to throw the football! Spread them out, lighten the box, minimize assignments required to get 2 or so and pick up the easy yardage!

3) Give 2nd level defenders and activating Safeties something to stall them in their fits. Give them false keys or set-dressing to make them hesitate for the slightest of moments. That is all you need to win leverage in most cases.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Now do we do any of that?

No. We do not.

We routinely create heavy boxes and activating Safeties with 12 (or even 13) personnel, condensed formations, short motion into the formation on 1st and 10, 2nd and short, 3rd and short!

We maximize numbers thereby actually optimizing for failure points via assignments-required-to-win in the run game!

We not only don't give false keys or set-dressing in the run game! We short motion into the formation and run from that look at a huge rate. We could so easily use that short motion to play-action and Bubble Screen and Bubble Screen Fake > Wheel off of that Fake. We could have an entire suite of fakery off of our rampant short motion into the formation deployment. Every game we could threaten several tendency breakers with huge transaction costs for activating Safeties or getting into run fits early on that short motion into the formation. But we just don't. We "do what we do." And "what we do" just isn't good enough without the GOAT QB playing behind a top 5 OL.

And that isn't even getting into our passing game, which I've talked about so many times, but its so much worse right now because we just aren't generating separation. Gronk + a 100 % Godwin + AB (possibly the greatest separation-generating WR all time) and it doesn't matter if your passing game concepts don't generate separation and overwhelmingly rely upon skill position players winning 1v1s. Remove all of that and then put Mike in the position where he has to identify coverage and run the appropriate Option route (Mike is great at what he does...but identifying coverage and running the appropriate Option route ain't it...he has put the ball in danger so many times these last 3 years under these circumstances...like last game).

I have noticed this as well. It seems like we rarely break tendency from our personnel. If we're in 22, we're running. If we're in 11 or 01, we're passing, no matter how light the box is. The only variations are goal line (rarely) or on 3rd and long draws. Leftwich seems totally disinterested in playing matchup football.

[MJW]

It's part of a bigger narrative, as Nobody implies - we don't do a damn thing to get Lenny cheap or easy yards. You can get away with that when you have three Pro Bowlers on your line. Not here.

[BucsNBills]

So yeah, the Arians scene seems to function pretty well when you have the goat QB that's not distracted by off the field drama throwing the ball to the goat TE, a would be HoF in AB, a strong eventual HoF candidate in Mike Evans, and an AP caliber receiver in Godwin. All while being protected by arguably the best offensive line in the league

But then again, if you have all that, what offensive scheme and philosophy WOULDN'T work?

And these issues haven't just appeared this year. This shit has been a plague since the SB season. We left so many yards and points on the field just because how little innovation this scheme brings to the tabl.

How many drives routinely would stall during a game when it's 3rd and 2 and we end up throwing a 30 yard sidelines bomb?

Or when there's miscommunication on routes because the Arians system relies on telepathic communication between receivers and the QB?

Or God forbid we sculpt our game plan to exploit the defenses weaknesses or tendencies. Nope, we do what we do regardless.

One thing that can't be overlooked is that these issues aren't new developments. I've personally been complaining about the poor offensive philosophy since 2020 even though we could still brute force results back then. I know I wasn't concerned with outcome so much as the thought process behind the decisions that were made on the field by this coaching staff. Now they're just more obvious because the outcome matches the subpar philosophy driving the offense.

[Selmon Rules]

The whole running game thing just irritates me. I don't necessarily want to run the ball more but I do want to be able to run the ball. We simply can't

[acmillis]

So yeah, the Arians scene seems to function pretty well when you have the goat QB that's not distracted by off the field drama throwing the ball to the goat TE, a would be HoF in AB, a strong eventual HoF candidate in Mike Evans, and an AP caliber receiver in Godwin. All while being protected by arguably the best offensive line in the league

But then again, if you have all that, what offensive scheme and philosophy WOULDN'T work?

And these issues haven't just appeared this year. This shit has been a plague since the SB season. We left so many yards and points on the field just because how little innovation this scheme brings to the tabl.

How many drives routinely would stall during a game when it's 3rd and 2 and we end up throwing a 30 yard sidelines bomb?

Or when there's miscommunication on routes because the Arians system relies on telepathic communication between receivers and the QB?

Or God forbid we sculpt our game plan to exploit the defenses weaknesses or tendencies. Nope, we do what we do regardless.

One thing that can't be overlooked is that these issues aren't new developments. I've personally been complaining about the poor offensive philosophy since 2020 even though we could still brute force results back then. I know I wasn't concerned with outcome so much as the thought process behind the decisions that were made on the field by this coaching staff. Now they're just more obvious because the outcome matches the subpar philosophy driving the offense.

You complain no matter what. Even if we were undefeated, you’d whine about something.

[King Bootz]

The whole running game thing just irritates me. I don't necessarily want to run the ball more but I do want to be able to run the ball. We simply can't

20 or more rushes: 3-0
19 or fewer rushes: 0-5

We need to run the ball more.

[Max]

The whole running game thing just irritates me. I don't necessarily want to run the ball more but I do want to be able to run the ball. We simply can't

20 or more rushes: 3-0
19 or fewer rushes: 0-5

We need to run the ball more.