Tampa Bay Buccaneers @ Carolina Panthers Official Game Day Thread: Righting the Ship Edition

[Rocker]

There's another game to wager on....

I'll accept any bet and i'll still donate

Bucs win, I get my avi back. Panthers win, you get your username back.

[Onthebrink]

Quite a few. 3 dropped picks. The last one Otton fell down on.

And how many of those have happened on 4th down desperation throws?

So making excuses. Doesn't count if it is on 4th down. Wouldn't want to actually get the 4th down. The answer is one btw.

[CamCam]

I'll accept any bet and i'll still donate

Bucs win, I get my avi back. Panthers win, you get your username back.

Deal

[King Bootz]

I didn't know @Rocker was black!

[nybf]

Bucs win, I get my avi back. Panthers win, you get your username back.

Deal

Be careful, no one actually enforces bets around here.

[Rocker]

I didn't know @Rocker was black!

No cracks here.

[IronDog]

Seriously, when does the game start?

[King Bootz]

Seriously, when does the game start?

Next fall

[Big Irv]

This offense has been lame and non creative for the past 3 years. This isn’t a now problem. It’s showing up now because we don’t have the same elite talent as previous years.

[Babeinbucland]

Can we forfeit?

What an embarrassment.

Isn’t that what we did?

[Rocker]

Can we forfeit?

What an embarrassment.

Isn’t that what we did?

Certainly feels like it.

What is our identity?

We suck at running the ball. Mediocre at best passing the ball. Defense is a YUGE meh at everything.

We’re flailing on every aspect.

[BucsNBills]

Isn’t that what we did?

Certainly feels like it.

What is our identity?

We suck at running the ball. Mediocre at best passing the ball. Defense is a YUGE meh at everything.

We’re flailing on every aspect.

That's probably the most frustrating aspect because there's nothing we can say "Well at least we're good at X" about. Nothing.

It's not like we're solid at several places but just have a glaring weakness.

We're just bad everywhere.

[Babeinbucland]

It dawned on me this evening that the Buc’s curse finally broke Tom Brady

[acmillis]

Certainly feels like it.

What is our identity?

We suck at running the ball. Mediocre at best passing the ball. Defense is a YUGE meh at everything.

We’re flailing on every aspect.

That's probably the most frustrating aspect because there's nothing we can say "Well at least we're good at X" about. Nothing.

It's not like we're solid at several places but just have a glaring weakness.

We're just bad everywhere.

Wrong. We do not turn the ball over. We're tied for 3rd least giveaways in the NFL. we're averaging less than one TO per game.

Our defense is only giving up 17.7 points per game, 5th best in the NFL.

We do some things really, really well. It's just that we're so drastically bad in other areas, I can understand fans saying, "we're horribad in every aspect" when that just isn't the case.

[King Bootz]

That's probably the most frustrating aspect because there's nothing we can say "Well at least we're good at X" about. Nothing.

It's not like we're solid at several places but just have a glaring weakness.

We're just bad everywhere.

Wrong. We do not turn the ball over. We're tied for 3rd least giveaways in the NFL. we're averaging less than one TO per game.

Our defense is only giving up 17.7 points per game, 5th best in the NFL.

We do some things really, really well. It's just that we're so drastically bad in other areas, I can understand fans saying, "we're horribad in every aspect" when that just isn't the case.

Where have you been, man. Didn't you hear? We're done now but we'll probably win our division and get a home playoff game.

[acmillis]

Wrong. We do not turn the ball over. We're tied for 3rd least giveaways in the NFL. we're averaging less than one TO per game.

Our defense is only giving up 17.7 points per game, 5th best in the NFL.

We do some things really, really well. It's just that we're so drastically bad in other areas, I can understand fans saying, "we're horribad in every aspect" when that just isn't the case.

Where have you been, man. Didn't you hear? We're done now but we'll probably win our division and get a home playoff game.

Honestly, I think, as OP said, it's tough to point to one area and say, man, if we were better there, we'd be alright. We're not really bad everywhere, which is unique for our team (prior to TB12), where there was a long list of bad, and now that we've been spoiled with winning for a couple of years, because we're not this year, it's just....tough.

I think the biggest heartache is that we have the talent, but we're not executing on offense whatsoever. It's the line, it's Brady, it's the backs, it just really is a complete malfunction on that side of the ball. But hey, at least we're not turning it over...

[BucsNBills]

The defense "only" giving up 17ppg is a fool's gold stat. We have exactly one good defensive performance under our belts, and that was week 1 vs the Cowboys. Everyone was healthy, and the realities of a mentally retired Brady hadn't sat in yet. Ever since, the defense has gottn progressively worse.

Oh, and what happened the first time we played a good QB? He hung 41 points on us.

Teams are gashing us in the run game. XFL QBs are slicing up the defense. Backups are converting multiple 3rd and longs to seal victories.

So miss me with the 17ppg stat because that's an illusion, nothing more.

As for turnovers, Brady is getting some Mahomes level of luck this year with dropped picks. He should've had a 3 INT day yesterday. So it's not like we're not TRYING to give away the football, because we are. And our lack of turnovers really speaks volumes to just how bad we are as a football team, because our lack of offensive production can't even be blamed on lost possessions.

Right now, as of 10/24/2022, the Bucs are a terrible football team top to bottom. No amount of phony stats will change that.

Will they remain a terrible football team? That remains to be seen, but I have a sneaking suspicion that yes, they will.

[King Bootz]

Where have you been, man. Didn't you hear? We're done now but we'll probably win our division and get a home playoff game.

Honestly, I think, as OP said, it's tough to point to one area and say, man, if we were better there, we'd be alright. We're not really bad everywhere, which is unique for our team (prior to TB12), where there was a long list of bad, and now that we've been spoiled with winning for a couple of years, because we're not this year, it's just....tough.

I think the biggest heartache is that we have the talent, but we're not executing on offense whatsoever. It's the line, it's Brady, it's the backs, it just really is a complete malfunction on that side of the ball. But hey, at least we're not turning it over...

We're not turning it over but honestly it could be worse. Brady seems to throw 3-4 passes each game that could be picked.

I think we could be better if we had better protection from the Oline. People might be underestimating just how bad Hainsey/Goedeke have been. The other 3 haven't exactly been up to par either. @Snake is 100% right that a lot of this falls on Jason Licht. Instead of securing as best protection as possible for our 40+ QB, he Instead opted to go after the WRs/TEs/RBs he wanted. That's not how you construct a roster. And the guys Brady wanted aren't as good as advertised. Fournette is probably his own biggest fan and he's been terrible. But it's nothing we didn't already know. I might step on the field before Julio does again. Does Gio Bernard still play here? Russell Gage.......Nuff said.

This just isn't a good roster and we probably already knew it but were in denial. But it's not the end of our season as we know it. There is still time despite the claims that we are done.

[acmillis]

The defense "only" giving up 17ppg is a fool's gold stat. We have exactly one good defensive performance under our belts, and that was week 1 vs the Cowboys. Everyone was healthy, and the realities of a mentally retired Brady hadn't sat in yet. Ever since, the defense has gottn progressively worse.

Oh, and what happened the first time we played a good QB? He hung 41 points on us.

Teams are gashing us in the run game. XFL QBs are slicing up the defense. Backups are converting multiple 3rd and longs to seal victories.

So miss me with the 17ppg stat because that's an illusion, nothing more.

As for turnovers, Brady is getting some Mahomes level of luck this year with dropped picks. He should've had a 3 INT day yesterday. So it's not like we're not TRYING to give away the football, because we are. And our lack of turnovers really speaks volumes to just how bad we are as a football team, because our lack of offensive production can't even be blamed on lost possessions.

Right now, as of 10/24/2022, the Bucs are a terrible football team top to bottom. No amount of phony stats will change that.

Will they remain a terrible football team? That remains to be seen, but I have a sneaking suspicion that yes, they will.

lolwut?!?!? Outside of the KC game, we've given up 3, 10, 14, 15, 20, 21 points. If you ignore the KC game (which you shouldn't, because why are we ignoring anything, although you are the one saying we should?!?!?), we're giving up 13.8 PPG. Statistically speaking, our defense is much closer to that 3 point DAL performance than that 41 point KC performance, not matter how much you'd like to be missed with the facts. Our defense is very, very good. Just because the offense is playing like hot garbage right now, that doesn't mean the defense is a sinking ship too.

[The Outsider]

The defense "only" giving up 17ppg is a fool's gold stat. We have exactly one good defensive performance under our belts, and that was week 1 vs the Cowboys. Everyone was healthy, and the realities of a mentally retired Brady hadn't sat in yet. Ever since, the defense has gottn progressively worse.

Oh, and what happened the first time we played a good QB? He hung 41 points on us.

Teams are gashing us in the run game. XFL QBs are slicing up the defense. Backups are converting multiple 3rd and longs to seal victories.

So miss me with the 17ppg stat because that's an illusion, nothing more.

As for turnovers, Brady is getting some Mahomes level of luck this year with dropped picks. He should've had a 3 INT day yesterday. So it's not like we're not TRYING to give away the football, because we are. And our lack of turnovers really speaks volumes to just how bad we are as a football team, because our lack of offensive production can't even be blamed on lost possessions.

Right now, as of 10/24/2022, the Bucs are a terrible football team top to bottom. No amount of phony stats will change that.

Will they remain a terrible football team? That remains to be seen, but I have a sneaking suspicion that yes, they will.

lolwut?!?!? Outside of the KC game, we've given up 3, 10, 14, 15, 20, 21 points. If you ignore the KC game (which you shouldn't, because why are we ignoring anything, although you are the one saying we should?!?!?), we're giving up 13.8 PPG. Statistically speaking, our defense is much closer to that 3 point DAL performance than that 41 point KC performance, not matter how much you'd like to be missed with the facts. Our defense is very, very good. Just because the offense is playing like hot garbage right now, that doesn't mean the defense is a sinking ship too.

The defense is very good with some caveats. One: Our pass-rush sucks, that's partly scheme, partly Shaq and JTS not taking advantage of what should be good match-ups for them. Two: Devin White ruins the integrity of our run defense on a semi-regular basis. Three: Take Davis and AWJ out and our secondary is trash enough to get lit up by PJ Walker. Four: Our scheme makes no sense and goes from hyper-aggressive to hyper-passive with zero middle ground and for seemingly no reason.

[BucsNBills]

The defense "only" giving up 17ppg is a fool's gold stat. We have exactly one good defensive performance under our belts, and that was week 1 vs the Cowboys. Everyone was healthy, and the realities of a mentally retired Brady hadn't sat in yet. Ever since, the defense has gottn progressively worse.

Oh, and what happened the first time we played a good QB? He hung 41 points on us.

Teams are gashing us in the run game. XFL QBs are slicing up the defense. Backups are converting multiple 3rd and longs to seal victories.

So miss me with the 17ppg stat because that's an illusion, nothing more.

As for turnovers, Brady is getting some Mahomes level of luck this year with dropped picks. He should've had a 3 INT day yesterday. So it's not like we're not TRYING to give away the football, because we are. And our lack of turnovers really speaks volumes to just how bad we are as a football team, because our lack of offensive production can't even be blamed on lost possessions.

Right now, as of 10/24/2022, the Bucs are a terrible football team top to bottom. No amount of phony stats will change that.

Will they remain a terrible football team? That remains to be seen, but I have a sneaking suspicion that yes, they will.

lolwut?!?!? Outside of the KC game, we've given up 3, 10, 14, 15, 20, 21 points. If you ignore the KC game (which you shouldn't, because why are we ignoring anything, although you are the one saying we should?!?!?), we're giving up 13.8 PPG. Statistically speaking, our defense is much closer to that 3 point DAL performance than that 41 point KC performance, not matter how much you'd like to be missed with the facts. Our defense is very, very good. Just because the offense is playing like hot garbage right now, that doesn't mean the defense is a sinking ship too.

Jamies Winston played like Jamies Winston
Marcus Mariotta with no Kyle Pitts
Aaron Rodgers with zero viable weapons
Kenny Pickett/Mitch Trubisky
PJ Walker with maybe one good WR and an interim HC

Well congrats on not being blown out by that list of QBs and/or situations. Mind you we're getting gashed on the ground vs basically all those teams. We're giving up important 3rd down conversions.

If you want to hang your hat on that phantom 17ppg then be my guest. We couldn't even maintain our average vs the juggernaut that is PJ Walker.

We'll see in a few weeks just how imaginary that 17ppg truly is.

[acmillis]

lolwut?!?!? Outside of the KC game, we've given up 3, 10, 14, 15, 20, 21 points. If you ignore the KC game (which you shouldn't, because why are we ignoring anything, although you are the one saying we should?!?!?), we're giving up 13.8 PPG. Statistically speaking, our defense is much closer to that 3 point DAL performance than that 41 point KC performance, not matter how much you'd like to be missed with the facts. Our defense is very, very good. Just because the offense is playing like hot garbage right now, that doesn't mean the defense is a sinking ship too.

Jamies Winston played like Jamies Winston
Marcus Mariotta with no Kyle Pitts
Aaron Rodgers with zero viable weapons
Kenny Pickett/Mitch Trubisky
PJ Walker with maybe one good WR and an interim HC

Well congrats on not being blown out by that list of QBs and/or situations. Mind you we're getting gashed on the ground vs basically all those teams. We're giving up important 3rd down conversions.

If you want to hang your hat on that phantom 17ppg then be my guest. We couldn't even maintain our average vs the juggernaut that is PJ Walker.

We'll see in a few weeks just how imaginary that 17ppg truly is.

You're ignoring the Dak 3 Point game? Why? It doesn't fit your narrative. We play who is on our schedule.

[acmillis]

lolwut?!?!? Outside of the KC game, we've given up 3, 10, 14, 15, 20, 21 points. If you ignore the KC game (which you shouldn't, because why are we ignoring anything, although you are the one saying we should?!?!?), we're giving up 13.8 PPG. Statistically speaking, our defense is much closer to that 3 point DAL performance than that 41 point KC performance, not matter how much you'd like to be missed with the facts. Our defense is very, very good. Just because the offense is playing like hot garbage right now, that doesn't mean the defense is a sinking ship too.

The defense is very good with some caveats. One: Our pass-rush sucks, that's partly scheme, partly Shaq and JTS not taking advantage of what should be good match-ups for them. Two: Devin White ruins the integrity of our run defense on a semi-regular basis. Three: Take Davis and AWJ out and our secondary is trash enough to get lit up by PJ Walker. Four: Our scheme makes no sense and goes from hyper-aggressive to hyper-passive with zero middle ground and for seemingly no reason.

Even with all those points you made (which I don't necessarily disagree with some of them), we're still very, very good on defense.

[BucsNBills]

Jamies Winston played like Jamies Winston
Marcus Mariotta with no Kyle Pitts
Aaron Rodgers with zero viable weapons
Kenny Pickett/Mitch Trubisky
PJ Walker with maybe one good WR and an interim HC

Well congrats on not being blown out by that list of QBs and/or situations. Mind you we're getting gashed on the ground vs basically all those teams. We're giving up important 3rd down conversions.

If you want to hang your hat on that phantom 17ppg then be my guest. We couldn't even maintain our average vs the juggernaut that is PJ Walker.

We'll see in a few weeks just how imaginary that 17ppg truly is.

You're ignoring the Dak 3 Point game? Why? It doesn't fit your narrative. We play who is on our schedule.

I already addressed that game. I said it was our only good defensive performance. Not ignoring, just already addressed it.

[King Bootz]

You can have a lot of criticism for the team. But the defense not being good is a lie.

[acmillis]

You're ignoring the Dak 3 Point game? Why? It doesn't fit your narrative. We play who is on our schedule.

I already addressed that game. I said it was our only good defensive performance. Not ignoring, just already addressed it.

2021 Buccaneers Defense gave up 20.8 PPG
2020 Buccaneers Defense gave up 22.2 PPG.

This defense is better than those two teams, there is no arguing that. Miss me with the run d is better, pass rush is worse, etc. It's about how many points you give up, that is all that matters.

Edit - If I told you in August that our defense would be giving up 17.7 PPG through 7 games, we'd all be creaming our collective pants, and probably thinking we're either undefeated or 6-1. The defense ain't the problem whatsoever.

[The Outsider]

The defense is very good with some caveats. One: Our pass-rush sucks, that's partly scheme, partly Shaq and JTS not taking advantage of what should be good match-ups for them. Two: Devin White ruins the integrity of our run defense on a semi-regular basis. Three: Take Davis and AWJ out and our secondary is trash enough to get lit up by PJ Walker. Four: Our scheme makes no sense and goes from hyper-aggressive to hyper-passive with zero middle ground and for seemingly no reason.

Even with all those points you made (which I don't necessarily disagree with some of them), we're still very, very good on defense.

Yeah, which is why I agreed with you. However, a very, very good defense with those types of problems will eventually get figured out over the course of the season and eventually successfully schemed against. Then, when you have a coach like Bowles who is apparently diametrically opposed to making adjustments, teams figure out how to exploit the inherent weaknesses in the defense.

You know what we're not doing that we were doing in 2020 and 2021? Forcing turnovers.

[BucsNBills]

I already addressed that game. I said it was our only good defensive performance. Not ignoring, just already addressed it.

2021 Buccaneers Defense gave up 20.8 PPG
2020 Buccaneers Defense gave up 22.2 PPG.

This defense is better than those two teams, there is no arguing that. Miss me with the run d is better, pass rush is worse, etc. It's about how many points you give up, that is all that matters.

Edit - If I told you in August that our defense would be giving up 17.7 PPG through 7 games, we'd all be creaming our collective pants, and probably thinking we're either undefeated or 6-1. The defense ain't the problem whatsoever.

You can quote the 17ppg all you want, but it's the byproduct of us playing TERRIBLE QBS and offenses for the most part.

Only the Vikings are worse than us in redzone scoring defense. We're in the both 25% for third down conversions allowed. We're getting gashed on the ground.

Mahomes demonstrated quite clearly what happens when a good offense and QB goes against this defense. We're going to see it again vs Lamar.

It's fools gold, nothing more.

[acmillis]

Even with all those points you made (which I don't necessarily disagree with some of them), we're still very, very good on defense.

Yeah, which is why I agreed with you. However, a very, very good defense with those types of problems will eventually get figured out over the course of the season and eventually successfully schemed against. Then, when you have a coach like Bowles who is apparently diametrically opposed to making adjustments, teams figure out how to exploit the inherent weaknesses in the defense.

You know what we're not doing that we were doing in 2020 and 2021? Forcing turnovers.

Yup, and that is the pill that is hard to swallow. We're only giving up 17 PPG AND we're not getting those TOs. This is a pipe dream, but imagine if we were forcing turnovers.

[acmillis]

2021 Buccaneers Defense gave up 20.8 PPG
2020 Buccaneers Defense gave up 22.2 PPG.

This defense is better than those two teams, there is no arguing that. Miss me with the run d is better, pass rush is worse, etc. It's about how many points you give up, that is all that matters.

Edit - If I told you in August that our defense would be giving up 17.7 PPG through 7 games, we'd all be creaming our collective pants, and probably thinking we're either undefeated or 6-1. The defense ain't the problem whatsoever.

You can quote the 17ppg all you want, but it's the byproduct of us playing TERRIBLE QBS and offenses for the most part.

Only the Vikings are worse than us in redzone scoring defense. We're in the both 25% for third down conversions allowed. We're getting gashed on the ground.

Mahomes demonstrated quite clearly what happens when a good offense and QB goes against this defense. We're going to see it again vs Lamar.

It's fools gold, nothing more.

Again, we play the teams that are on our schedule. I'm sorry our defense is the absolute best in the league when we do not face Mahomes, not sure what to tell you since there is no argument against that.

[IronDog]

If we give up those 17 +/- points per game, but can't score more than 3 - 6 points we still lose.

[BucsNBills]

You can quote the 17ppg all you want, but it's the byproduct of us playing TERRIBLE QBS and offenses for the most part.

Only the Vikings are worse than us in redzone scoring defense. We're in the both 25% for third down conversions allowed. We're getting gashed on the ground.

Mahomes demonstrated quite clearly what happens when a good offense and QB goes against this defense. We're going to see it again vs Lamar.

It's fools gold, nothing more.

Again, we play the teams that are on our schedule. I'm sorry our defense is the absolute best in the league when we do not face Mahomes, not sure what to tell you since there is no argument against that.

Agree to disagree then. I don't much enjoy arguing on these boards anymore, which ultimately just results in ad homs being thrown around. I apologize that I have a difference in opinion on our defense.

I'd love for nothing more than for our defense to prove itself Thursday vs the Ravens and for our offense to actually leave the locker room and play like professional NFL players and for this game to be the turning point in the season.

I'm certainly not pulling for our team to be THIS bad THIS early, because as a 20+ year Bucs fan I know exactly what is waiting for us on the other side of the Brady window and I'm not looking forward to that at all.

[King Bootz]

If we give up those 17 +/- points per game, but can't score more than 3 - 6 points we still lose.

1st game all season we haven't scored a TD but by all means, present that as the norm..

[IronDog]

If we give up those 17 +/- points per game, but can't score more than 3 - 6 points we still lose.

1st game all season we haven't scored a TD but by all means, present that as the norm..

OK, fine, if we continue to give up 17 +/- pts and can't score more than 10 - 14, we still lose.

Go ahead, you keep missing the point. By all means, continue!

[King Bootz]

1st game all season we haven't scored a TD but by all means, present that as the norm..

OK, fine, if we continue to give up 17 +/- pts and can't score more than 10 - 14, we still lose.

Go ahead, you keep missing the point. By all means, continue!

No, I think I'll let you continue manufacturing your own narrative. Proceed.