Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Grahamburn]

What offense did you watch all year? Out of one side of your mouth it's all about just making the playoffs when it comes to a certain someone, but when it comes to Baker his ceiling is low somehow? Make up your mind.

He put up great numbers. Congratulations. But in the big moments, in big games, he comes up short.

13 playoff QBs come up short every year in the big games.

[Bootz]

He put up great numbers. Congratulations. But in the big moments, in big games, he comes up short.

13 playoff QBs come up short every year in the big games.

Correct. Doesn't mean they all need to be replaced.

[Grahamburn]

13 playoff QBs come up short every year in the big games.

Correct. Doesn't mean they all need to be replaced.

Your take is Baker needs to be replaced? Wow.

[Bootz]

Correct. Doesn't mean they all need to be replaced.

Your take is Baker needs to be replaced? Wow.

Re-read the post you literally just quoted.

[Grahamburn]

Your take is Baker needs to be replaced? Wow.

Re-read the post you literally just quoted.

Have I suggested someone needs to be replaced? You lost me.

[Bootz]

Re-read the post you literally just quoted.

Have I suggested someone needs to be replaced? You lost me.

No and neither have I.

You somehow jumped to "Your take is Baker needs to be replaced". All I said was the 13 QBs who won't win the SB don't all need to be replaced.

[Grahamburn]

Have I suggested someone needs to be replaced? You lost me.

No and neither have I.

You somehow jumped to "Your take is Baker needs to be replaced". All I said was the 13 QBs who won't win the SB don't all need to be replaced.

Fair enough. Seemed like that's what you were insinuating. His ceiling is low. He comes up short. So on.

[13F11B]

Baker is frustrating at times. Bad plays happen though. On the whole Baker won games this year. Last night the loss was on a defense that could not prevent the opponent from moving the ball and the offense made two big mistakes (turn over and fucked up snap).

Baker is not Mahomes, but he is a starter in the league that can and will win games.

[Doctor]

Bowles makes chicken salad out of chicken shit all season and when the offense doesn't show people bitch he didn't make chicken cordon blue.

Okay pal.

[Grahamburn]

Bowles makes chicken salad out of chicken shit all season and when the offense doesn't show people bitch he didn't make chicken cordon blue.

Okay pal.

The TD to McLaurin went right over Antoine Winfield's head...

[Bootz]

No and neither have I.

You somehow jumped to "Your take is Baker needs to be replaced". All I said was the 13 QBs who won't win the SB don't all need to be replaced.

Fair enough. Seemed like that's what you were insinuating. His ceiling is low. He comes up short. So on.

His ceiling is low. He does come up short. Year 7 is completed and he's about to be 30 years old in 3 months. And we're still talking about a guy who makes great plays and then absolutely forgets how to QB in the next drive.

[Bootz]

Baker is frustrating at times. Bad plays happen though. On the whole Baker won games this year. Last night the loss was on a defense that could not prevent the opponent from moving the ball and the offense made two big mistakes (turn over and fucked up snap).

Baker is not Mahomes, but he is a starter in the league that can and will win games.

20 points, 284 yards and a fumble is good enough to win in your eyes?

[Grahamburn]

Fair enough. Seemed like that's what you were insinuating. His ceiling is low. He comes up short. So on.

His ceiling is low. He does come up short. Year 7 is completed and he's about to be 30 years old in 3 months. And we're still talking about a guy who makes great plays and then absolutely forgets how to QB in the next drive.

Standby. I'm going over to the Fire Todd Bowles thread to bring up his Jets' record.

[Pirate Life]

Baker is frustrating at times. Bad plays happen though. On the whole Baker won games this year. Last night the loss was on a defense that could not prevent the opponent from moving the ball and the offense made two big mistakes (turn over and fucked up snap).

Baker is not Mahomes, but he is a starter in the league that can and will win games.

20 points, 284 yards and a fumble is good enough to win in your eyes?

On 7 drives, yes. Offense put up more points per drive than they had on average since the bye week. If the offense got closer to the league average in drives, that was good enough to win as that would have been 34 points and over 400 yards of offense based on what they did produce when given the chance.

Bucs could not play complimentary football last night, every time one side of the ball did well the other side let the Commanders get the momentum back.

[13F11B]

Baker is frustrating at times. Bad plays happen though. On the whole Baker won games this year. Last night the loss was on a defense that could not prevent the opponent from moving the ball and the offense made two big mistakes (turn over and fucked up snap).

Baker is not Mahomes, but he is a starter in the league that can and will win games.

20 points, 284 yards and a fumble is good enough to win in your eyes?

Did you read what I posted? You could not have done that, or you would have had your answer already.

[Primeminister]

What offense did you watch all year? Out of one side of your mouth it's all about just making the playoffs when it comes to a certain someone, but when it comes to Baker his ceiling is low somehow? Make up your mind.

He put up great numbers. Congratulations. But in the big moments, in big games, he comes up short.

Yes. Bowles the HC does. We agree

[Bootz]

He put up great numbers. Congratulations. But in the big moments, in big games, he comes up short.

Yes. Bowles the HC does. We agree

The HC doesn't play any position that I'm aware of. You make better arguments than this. Much better.

[NeezDuts]

If baker puts up same numbers next year and let’s say wins 1 playoff game. What kind of deal do you give him?

[Sooner06]

If baker puts up same numbers next year and let’s say wins 1 playoff game. What kind of deal do you give him?

Pretty sure if Baker put up the same numbers and won at least one playoff game, essentially putting up back-to-back top-5 season stats, the bidding would start at $50M/yr. Ballpark it at around 4 yrs/$200M, $150M guaranteed?

[Sooner06]

Fair enough. Seemed like that's what you were insinuating. His ceiling is low. He comes up short. So on.

His ceiling is low. He does come up short. Year 7 is completed and he's about to be 30 years old in 3 months. And we're still talking about a guy who makes great plays and then absolutely forgets how to QB in the next drive.

Lol, "his ceiling is low."

What is his ceiling, according to you? This season? 4,500yds, 71% completion%, 41 passing TDs, 107 PR? Basically, Drew Brees? Brees-level play isn't good enough now? And Baker posted those numbers in his 7th new offensive system, with three rooks playing critical roles around him, and without his 2nd-best receiver for much of the season. So, given more experience/health around him his ceiling could be even higher than this season, right?

Never mind that you don't seem to have any criteria for assessing these 'ceilings' you keep bringing up like they're part of the Ten Commandments or something. I would really like to see a link to your CEILING CALCULATOR.

[Bootz]

His ceiling is low. He does come up short. Year 7 is completed and he's about to be 30 years old in 3 months. And we're still talking about a guy who makes great plays and then absolutely forgets how to QB in the next drive.

Lol, "his ceiling is low."

What is his ceiling, according to you? This season? 4,500yds, 71% completion%, 41 passing TDs, 107 PR? Basically, Drew Brees? Brees-level play isn't good enough now? And Baker posted those numbers in his 7th new offensive system, with three rooks playing critical roles around him, and without his 2nd-best receiver for much of the season. So, given more experience/health around him his ceiling could be even higher than this season, right?

Never mind that you don't seem to have any criteria for assessing these 'ceilings' you keep bringing up like they're part of the Ten Commandments or something. I would really like to see a link to your CEILING CALCULATOR.

Leading the league in turnovers = low ceiling. You left that out for a reason.

[Grahamburn]

Lol, "his ceiling is low."

What is his ceiling, according to you? This season? 4,500yds, 71% completion%, 41 passing TDs, 107 PR? Basically, Drew Brees? Brees-level play isn't good enough now? And Baker posted those numbers in his 7th new offensive system, with three rooks playing critical roles around him, and without his 2nd-best receiver for much of the season. So, given more experience/health around him his ceiling could be even higher than this season, right?

Never mind that you don't seem to have any criteria for assessing these 'ceilings' you keep bringing up like they're part of the Ten Commandments or something. I would really like to see a link to your CEILING CALCULATOR.

Leading the league in turnovers = low ceiling. You left that out for a reason.

Who led the league in turnovers in 2023?

[Bootz]

Leading the league in turnovers = low ceiling. You left that out for a reason.

Who led the league in turnovers in 2023?

Sam Howell

[Grahamburn]

Who led the league in turnovers in 2023?

Sam Howell

Hahaha. He was tied with someone else. You left that out for a reason. How how is that ceiling again?

[Bootz]

Sam Howell

Hahaha. He was tied with someone else. How how is that ceiling again?

No, he was not....

He was the only player with 23 turnovers last season.

[Grahamburn]

Hahaha. He was tied with someone else. How how is that ceiling again?

No, he was not....

He was the only player with 23 turnovers last season.

Howell had 22 turnovers (21 INTs and 1 lost fumble). Josh Allen had 21 turnovers (18 INTs and 3 lost fumbles). Pro football reference didn't show lost fumbles. They had Allen with 7 fumbles total.

[Bootz]

No, he was not....

He was the only player with 23 turnovers last season.

Howell had 22 turnovers (21 INTs and 1 lost fumble). Josh Allen had 21 turnovers (18 INTs and 3 lost fumbles). Pro football reference didn't show lost fumbles. They had Allen with 7 fumbles total.

Wrong.

https://www.nfl.com/players/sam-howell/stats/

Howell-21 INTs, 2 fumbles lost

https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen/stats/career

Allen-18 INTs, 4 fumbles lost


What was the overall point you were making though about Sam Howell and Baker Mayfield?

[Grahamburn]

Howell had 22 turnovers (21 INTs and 1 lost fumble). Josh Allen had 21 turnovers (18 INTs and 3 lost fumbles). Pro football reference didn't show lost fumbles. They had Allen with 7 fumbles total.

Wrong.

https://www.nfl.com/players/sam-howell/stats/

Howell-21 INTs, 2 fumbles lost

https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen/stats/career

Allen-18 INTs, 4 fumbles lost


What was the overall point you were making though about Sam Howell and Baker Mayfield?

Point was when I originally looked at it I thought Josh Allen led the league. Either way he was damn close and has had turnover problems his entire career.

[Bootz]

Wrong.

https://www.nfl.com/players/sam-howell/stats/

Howell-21 INTs, 2 fumbles lost

https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen/stats/career

Allen-18 INTs, 4 fumbles lost


What was the overall point you were making though about Sam Howell and Baker Mayfield?

Point was when I originally looked at it I thought Josh Allen led the league. Either way he was damn close and has had turnover problems his entire career.

Got you.

Id say Josh Allen has a much higher floor than Baker does and a higher ceiling.

Baker can finally say he's score 40+ TDs in a season. Josh has done it 5 times and he elevates his teammates. Can't say the same for Baker.

[Grahamburn]

Point was when I originally looked at it I thought Josh Allen led the league. Either way he was damn close and has had turnover problems his entire career.

Got you.

Id say Josh Allen has a much higher floor than Baker does and a higher ceiling.

Baker can finally say he's score 40+ TDs in a season. Josh has done it 5 times and he elevates his teammates. Can't say the same for Baker.

Fair enough. Baker has shown that capability now with a monster season and still put up numbers with both of his top WRs down for multiple games. I'm not sure "doesn't elevate his teammates" applies. He had fewer turnovers this year than Allen had last year. Now Allen is an MVP candidate. Just saying we should apply the rules the same way.

[Bootz]

Got you.

Id say Josh Allen has a much higher floor than Baker does and a higher ceiling.

Baker can finally say he's score 40+ TDs in a season. Josh has done it 5 times and he elevates his teammates. Can't say the same for Baker.

Fair enough. Baker has shown that capability now with a monster season and still put up numbers with both of his top WRs down for multiple games. I'm not sure "doesn't elevate his teammates" applies. He had fewer turnovers this year than Allen had last year. Now Allen is an MVP candidate. Just saying we should apply the rules the same way.

Allen is an MVP candidate in part because he's cut down tremendously on his mistakes. More than anyone has from year to year in my recent memory.

Who has Baker helped elevate?

[Kress]

he elevates his teammates. Can't say the same for Baker.

Float that theory around the locker room and get back to us.

[Snake]

he elevates his teammates. Can't say the same for Baker.

Float that theory around the locker room and get back to us.

No no no. Players are reliable sources of information about coaches. Not other players!

[Grahamburn]

Fair enough. Baker has shown that capability now with a monster season and still put up numbers with both of his top WRs down for multiple games. I'm not sure "doesn't elevate his teammates" applies. He had fewer turnovers this year than Allen had last year. Now Allen is an MVP candidate. Just saying we should apply the rules the same way.

Allen is an MVP candidate in part because he's cut down tremendously on his mistakes. More than anyone has from year to year in my recent memory.

Who has Baker helped elevate?

If you don't think Baker played well this year or elevated his teammates I don't know what to tell you, man. There's not much else I can say.

[Bootz]

Allen is an MVP candidate in part because he's cut down tremendously on his mistakes. More than anyone has from year to year in my recent memory.

Who has Baker helped elevate?

If you don't think Baker played well this year or elevated his teammates I don't know what to tell you, man. There's not much else I can say.

Hes played well. Put up great numbers. Elevated? Meh, I don't agree that he has. But he's done as well as you could expect.