Bucs vs Rams Analysis

[Primeminister]

Here we are again except this time the bad guys won. As I said last time this thread is for sharing any analysis of WTF happened in LA. It can beyour own work or breakdowns from Twitter, Youtube, Reddit or wherever. If you believe it will add to our collective football understanding & knowledge please share it here.

As always our resident football minds please feel free to chime in here. I know @King Bootz had some thoughts on what’s going on. @Cheb @MJW @Nobody if you guys have time to hop in here please do.

[Primeminister]

Matt Waldman highlights Devin White making a mistake while shoving Ade Sean Jackson leading an explosive play.

[Primeminister]

This highlights a flaw in the play design considering the personnel.

[Primeminister]

[Nobody]

@Primeminister

I don't think I'm going to do the extensive breakdowns I've done in the past, but I may do something here and there.

On that first play where White picks off Davis, we're in 1 Man Free (White is the free defender playing Low Hole). Obviously White isn't supposed to pick off Davis there. What you're looking for is him to play inside leverage on the Cross while Davis is in trail position. Prevent that window and then find some more work. Instead, it basically turns into a(n accidental) pick play.

Play 2 is just an overload A gap Zone blitz where Edge defender drops and ILB comes. Jensen steps down to B to double with Cappa, Wirfs has no work (with ILB replacing Edge), and Bernard is 1v1 and he doesn't hold up. If Brady didn't get rid of it that means there was nowhere to go with the ball.

I don't agree that the third play was poor Pass Blocking. Its not perfect (1v1 against AD rarely is), but everyone does their job well enough. Its a dime on a Corner to Gronk for a huge play and he just doesn't make the play (a theme this game). Gronk has been all-world for a bit here (his old self really). Probably due for a struggle like yesterday.

The last 2 are just Tunnel Screens with perimeter alignment and post-snap play that is just straight-up losing. These are both (overwhelmingly) cases of McVay beating Bowles. However, you'd like a hell of a lot better read & react out of your DBs there and some violence and block destruction to wreak havoc on the point blocker (the Slot defender in particular).

[Backside]

We saw Edwards get flat footed and toasted a couple times. So maybe it was an in game decision. But it’s crazy that with our beat up secondary he still go so few snaps.

Last year we put Mike at FS and played Winfield at CB. I’m shocked we didn’t try any variations and just lived (and died) with Cockrell and Delaney.

[Primeminister]

@Primeminister

I don't think I'm going to do the extensive breakdowns I've done in the past, but I may do something here and there.

On that first play where White picks off Davis, we're in 1 Man Free (White is the free defender playing Low Hole). Obviously White isn't supposed to pick off Davis there. What you're looking for is him to play inside leverage on the Cross while Davis is in trail position. Prevent that window and then find some more work. Instead, it basically turns into a(n accidental) pick play.

Play 2 is just an overload A gap Zone blitz where Edge defender drops and ILB comes. Jensen steps down to B to double with Cappa, Wirfs has no work (with ILB replacing Edge), and Bernard is 1v1 and he doesn't hold up. If Brady didn't get rid of it that means there was nowhere to go with the ball.

I don't agree that the third play was poor Pass Blocking. Its not perfect (1v1 against AD rarely is), but everyone does their job well enough. Its a dime on a Corner to Gronk for a huge play and he just doesn't make the play (a theme this game). Gronk has been all-world for a bit here (his old self really). Probably due for a struggle like yesterday.

The last 2 are just Tunnel Screens with perimeter alignment and post-snap play that is just straight-up losing. These are both (overwhelmingly) cases of McVay beating Bowles. However, you'd like a hell of a lot better read & react out of your DBs there and some violence and block destruction to wreak havoc on the point blocker (the Slot defender in particular).

Bro thanks for the input you provide here. I know those breakdowns take hours upon hours so I wouldn’t ask anyone to do that. This and your input in the reaction thread are great.

On the White play where the route concept turns hole defender into a pick play: could this route be a strategy to intentionally cause that collision btw the trail man & hole defender? During the Super Bowl I remember how physical White & David got with any route crossing their zones. Could that aggression could be leveraged against you in situations like this?

[Primeminister]

We saw Edwards get flat footed and toasted a couple times. So maybe it was an in game decision. But it’s crazy that with our beat up secondary he still go so few snaps.

Last year we put Mike at FS and played Winfield at CB. I’m shocked we didn’t try any variations and just lived (and died) with Cockrell and Delaney.

I’ve read a few people say that Cockrell didn’t have a horrible game. I’ll need to watch again to be sure, but Delaney got toasted. We cannot go to New England expecting Delaney to hold up. The guy isn’t ready for this.

[King Bootz]

Cockrell didn't have a horrible game is about as good a compliment as you can give him. Cockrell had I believe 2 holding/DPI penalties. Cockrell gets credit for the underthrown ball to Djax that hit him in the back. His Vernon Hargreaves celebration pissed me off a bit. Cockrell wasn't as bad as Delaney, who was down right awful. I don't care what Arians says. My eyes aren't fooling me.

[Nobody]

@Primeminister

I don't think I'm going to do the extensive breakdowns I've done in the past, but I may do something here and there.

On that first play where White picks off Davis, we're in 1 Man Free (White is the free defender playing Low Hole). Obviously White isn't supposed to pick off Davis there. What you're looking for is him to play inside leverage on the Cross while Davis is in trail position. Prevent that window and then find some more work. Instead, it basically turns into a(n accidental) pick play.

Play 2 is just an overload A gap Zone blitz where Edge defender drops and ILB comes. Jensen steps down to B to double with Cappa, Wirfs has no work (with ILB replacing Edge), and Bernard is 1v1 and he doesn't hold up. If Brady didn't get rid of it that means there was nowhere to go with the ball.

I don't agree that the third play was poor Pass Blocking. Its not perfect (1v1 against AD rarely is), but everyone does their job well enough. Its a dime on a Corner to Gronk for a huge play and he just doesn't make the play (a theme this game). Gronk has been all-world for a bit here (his old self really). Probably due for a struggle like yesterday.

The last 2 are just Tunnel Screens with perimeter alignment and post-snap play that is just straight-up losing. These are both (overwhelmingly) cases of McVay beating Bowles. However, you'd like a hell of a lot better read & react out of your DBs there and some violence and block destruction to wreak havoc on the point blocker (the Slot defender in particular).

Bro thanks for the input you provide here. I know those breakdowns take hours upon hours so I wouldn’t ask anyone to do that. This and your input in the reaction thread are great.

On the White play where the route concept turns hole defender into a pick play: could this route be a strategy to intentionally cause that collision btw the trail man & hole defender? During the Super Bowl I remember how physical White & David got with any route crossing their zones. Could that aggression could be leveraged against you in situations like this?

No problem buddy.

Negative.

The All 22 isn't out for this game so I can't confirm the rest of the route combinations, but 1 Man Free (High Hole Zone defender over Low Hole Zone defender to double Digs/Posts/Crossing routes etc w/ inside leverage w/ Man defenders in trail; basically bracketing in-cuts) is set up to shut down High/Low over the middle concepts and shallow under routes and intermediate in-cuts. So this is Bowles dialing up a winner against McVay and it turning into a loser because of execution.

Now what could happens is if this is a 1 Man Free without a High Hole over White's Low Hole. It could be the Safety is basically in outright double coverage on a particular threat (you might do this with Kelce or Hill if you're playing the Chiefs or Adams with the Packers). In that case, what Devin would be doing is playing Mid-Hole and prioritizing inside leverage help on intermediate in-cuts and only bracketing an under route if he knows he's safe over top of him (that is basically a High/Low concept like Double Digs where you've got layered Digs).

[Buc2]

I was reading this morning where Vea & Suh barely played on 50% of the defensive snaps in this game. WTF is up with that? By contrast, Donald played in 82%.

Suh played 34 snaps (52 percent) and Vea had one less.

By comparison, 30-year-old Aaron Donald played 60 snaps (82 percent of the Rams plays).

He (Vea) played 54 snaps in Week 1, 42 in Week 2, and 33 yesterday.

My question would be, why are some of our best defensive players riding the bench so much? Especially in critical games like this one.

[Caradoc]

The snaps have been low all 3 games I think. You'd think this game they'd have been in, but nope. I understand wanting to rest for the longer season, but the numbers are a bit much. Vea especially, he's not an older guy like Suh.

[Backside]

I was reading this morning where Vea & Suh barely played on 50% of the defensive snaps in this game. WTF is up with that? By contrast, Donald played in 82%.

Suh played 34 snaps (52 percent) and Vea had one less.

By comparison, 30-year-old Aaron Donald played 60 snaps (82 percent of the Rams plays).

He (Vea) played 54 snaps in Week 1, 42 in Week 2, and 33 yesterday.

My question would be, why are some of our best defensive players riding the bench so much? Especially in critical games like this one.

Was listening to The Athletic football podcast. Apparently every time Suh/Vea went out of the game the Rams went hurry up to discourage substitutions. It seemed to work great for them.

Haven’t confirmed that’s the case. But that podcast knows their shit.

[Cheb]

I was reading this morning where Vea & Suh barely played on 50% of the defensive snaps in this game. WTF is up with that? By contrast, Donald played in 82%.



My question would be, why are some of our best defensive players riding the bench so much? Especially in critical games like this one.

Was listening to The Athletic football podcast. Apparently every time Suh/Vea went out of the game the Rams went hurry up to discourage substitutions. It seemed to work great for them.

Haven’t confirmed that’s the case. But that podcast knows their shit.

I noticed that watching it live. The Rams got us quite a few times with hurryups to prevent subbing. Didn't note that it was due to Vea and/or Suh being out, but it would make sense.

[Snake]

I was reading this morning where Vea & Suh barely played on 50% of the defensive snaps in this game. WTF is up with that? By contrast, Donald played in 82%.

My question would be, why are some of our best defensive players riding the bench so much? Especially in critical games like this one.

Was listening to The Athletic football podcast. Apparently every time Suh/Vea went out of the game the Rams went hurry up to discourage substitutions. It seemed to work great for them.

Haven’t confirmed that’s the case. But that podcast knows their shit.

Good analysis.

McVay prepared for this game for a while.

[Nobody]

You’ve been seeing a trend in the last 3 years or so of teams devoting minimal assets to Run Defense (oftentimes actually leaving fronts gap-deficient).

What Vea does (outside of routinely collapsing the apex of the pocket 3-4 yards) is he allows us to minimize our assets devoted to the run game so we can devote more assets to stopping the pass.

Now we don’t take near enough advantage of that in terms of play ratio (Bowles has historically done the inverse), but we do now and again and it’s always on the table.

[Primeminister]

You’ve been seeing a trend in the last 3 years or so of teams devoting minimal assets to Run Defense (oftentimes actually leaving fronts gap-deficient).

What Vea does (outside of routinely collapsing the apex of the pocket 3-4 yards) is he allows us to minimize our assets devoted to the run game so we can devote more assets to stopping the pass.

Now we don’t take near enough advantage of that in terms of play ratio (Bowles has historically done the inverse), but we do now and again and it’s always on the table.

Can you explain what taking advantage of it vis play ratio would look like?

[Primeminister]

I was reading this morning where Vea & Suh barely played on 50% of the defensive snaps in this game. WTF is up with that? By contrast, Donald played in 82%.



My question would be, why are some of our best defensive players riding the bench so much? Especially in critical games like this one.

Was listening to The Athletic football podcast. Apparently every time Suh/Vea went out of the game the Rams went hurry up to discourage substitutions. It seemed to work great for them.

Haven’t confirmed that’s the case. But that podcast knows their shit.

That probably accounts for a significant percentage of those missed snaps. Good strategy by McVay & likely one other teams will try to employ. Our coaching staff needs to adjust and the backups need to step up.

[Nobody]

You’ve been seeing a trend in the last 3 years or so of teams devoting minimal assets to Run Defense (oftentimes actually leaving fronts gap-deficient).

What Vea does (outside of routinely collapsing the apex of the pocket 3-4 yards) is he allows us to minimize our assets devoted to the run game so we can devote more assets to stopping the pass.

Now we don’t take near enough advantage of that in terms of play ratio (Bowles has historically done the inverse), but we do now and again and it’s always on the table.

Can you explain what taking advantage of it vis play ratio would look like?

* Vea playing 0 Tech and 2 gapping both A gaps.

* Not formally accounting for one of the B gaps in run fits (it can be incidentally accounted for by White/Whitehead as they’re playing downhill).


Now you’ve freed someone up with no run fit responsibility (Edwards down in the box and being able to blitz/play robber or give White more freedom/less processing).

Do that in a high % of long (8+ yardage) defensive snaps.

Being overly concerned with defending the run isn’t a winning formula in the NFL. The run game is about efficiency and conversions so the passing game can score the points. Defend the run on 2nd/3rd/4th anc short. Beyond that, focus on generating negative plays and defending the passing game.

[Nobody]

Below is Stafford's TtT passing splits for the game:

Week 3 Stafford TtT

* 2.34 = # 3 quickest in NFL (Brady a fraction behind him)

* 22 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.64 average TtT.

* However, his throws over 2.5 seconds yielded only 1 Sack, a huge Passer Rating of 139+, and 2 TDs.


So, again, the story was the same as above.

Overwhelmingly, we're losing because of the Quick Game as our back 7 coverage + calls aren't holding up in the time that NFL-standard coverage has to hold up. The ball is getting out well beyond what an NFL Pass Rush is capable of impacting on the significant bulk of throws. However, on his throws over 2.5 seconds in this game, the Pass Rush wasn't getting home either.

Mostly the back 7 coverage/calls, but the Pass Rush and Blitz failed to show up when its number was called.

++++++++++++++++++++

Going to take a look at what was going on in some of these 2.5 second + TtT play losses:

22 Yard Pass
1st & 10 at LA 23
(3:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep left to C.Kupp ran ob at LA 45 for 22 yards. TB-J.Dean was injured during the play.

Empty 4*1 vs 42 Nickel (no Vea, Suh, or Edwards), Match Quarters.

This is just a brutal Scissors route combo (1 goes Skinny Post and 2 goes hard inside release back to Corner with downfield Mesh) and a Flat route underneath it. The depth of both of these routes makes them verts. 3 goes on a Drive route with its depth of cut right before the area where it would be a match or the Safety.

Dean matches 1 (as he should). Winfield hands off 3 to the other Safety (as he should) and focuses on bracketing 2's vert. LVD and White are where they need to be with the under routes (with White working to flat on the quad side). Problem is Cockrell is in no man's land. He's not matching 2 and he's just sort of pedaling to grass with no depth. Winfield is pissed after the play. Orthodox MQ rules makes this Cockrell's match and Winfield helps bracket (whereas Cockrell just handed it off and pedaled to no-mans land...basically covering the flat with White).

In terms of lack of Pressure, the RB (tight on the quad side) chips and releases so they have 6 for a moment vs our 4. We run a game on both sides (with neither Vea nor Suh) and it gets nothing done.

[Nobody]

Same drive (1st TD) and big conversion.

6 Yard Pass
3rd & 3 at TB 19
(14:18) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short middle to R.Woods to TB 13 for 6 yards (A.Winfield).

They're 3x1 and we're Nickel (Vea, Suh, Edwards in) and playing 2 Man Under w/ Davis on an island on the single side and no help (both Safeties helping Bunch other side.

First, the lack of Pressure. This was unlucky. Both Barrett and Vea won big time. Vea dominates the LG. Just crushes the apex of the pocket and is headed to deposit the RG into Staffords lap; 4.5 yards displacement in the first second and change. Barrett went hard upfield and came back inside to B gap. LT almost holds here and then "oops" falls to the ground at the feet of the LG, making a giant mess of things so Vea and the LG go down in a heap on top of them and preventing Barret's B gap win. This isn't a Tripping call by rule, but the effect is the same; winning Pass Rush is stopped by piles of bodies.

On the back end its covered well by everyone but White. Weird play. This is not something you would expect to happen. Woods is running a Whip route (hard inside release and pivot out) from Tight Bunch. This is White's man. White comes up to disrupt/reroute/chuck inside 5. Woods just "big boys" him here. White outweighs him by how much? In the collision, White loses his feet and goes down. Ball out to Woods for an easy 6 and Winfield rallies (Safety that side) to make the sure tackle.

[Grahamburn]

Glad to have @Nobody back even if it took a loss to get him here.

[Nobody]

Ha! Wins don’t require investigation into what’s going on! I can just be quietly happy in my little corner of the universe!

[Nobody]

Next 2.5 + TtT is on their next TD drive.

21 Yard Pass
2nd & 10 at TB 45
(1:30) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short middle to V.Jefferson to TB 24 for 21 yards (D.White).

They're 3x1 (Trips Left) w/ Singleback right with the Single on Davis' side (in Press). We're Nickel w/ Davis/White showing on-ball in A/B gaps over guards. Our alignment is showing Zone and we come with NCB delayed blitz off the Slot Trips side. We play 2 Zone behind it.

Pass Rush: Vea is singled over Center. He wins big and is at Staffords feet when the ball gets out. The problem is he doesn't clear his pads and he hits the deck with the Center. If Vea made a better effort with slap/swipe or push > pull here to clear his pads he either (i) makes the Sack or (ii) gets the holding call as he's on the Centers hip when the two of them go down (with the Center's hand outside of that outside pad and closelineing him as they go down...this is called OH a fair portion of the time, but Vea just doesn't do enough with his hands here). Everyone else loses badly here; Barret, Tryon, Suh, NCB. All singled up. Protection is perfect. Blitz pick-up is trivially handled.

Back End: There is clearly miscommunication here. Davis is expecting a hook/seam defender for the hard inside release, 8 yard Slant he's facing (this is where the ball goes and its wide open for miles). He's playing Press, outside leverage, disrupts and rides it till the in-cut, then sinks for flat. This is standard 2 Zone boundary CB play (he's even pointing at the in-cut for the inside defender). The inside defender is over with the Trips bracketing.

So this tells me that White thought or communicated that this was a 2 Read call for Davis' side with the single (meaning Davis basically is pattern matching on anything that isn't basically a shallow Cross/Dig). Davis is clearly playing like its normal 2 Zone. He's got the running back coming out for a Flare route, so if this is 2 Read on that side, then Winfield should be flying up from his 2 Deep position to attack that Flare route (as it would be uncovered). He doesn't. Winfield is playing 2 Zone.

So either Winfield + Davis screwed up/missed the 2 Read call (from White or whomever would call it) or White isn't where he is supposed to be. Personally, I'm tempted to say its a lack of communication/ability to hear a call due to crowd noise here because 2 Read for that single side is the best way to handle a this formation + our NCB blitz off the Trips side. White replacing the NCB blitz and bracketing (so they've still got 4 D vs 3 O over there) makes sense and 2 Read on the other side makes sense.

I doubt both Davis and Winfield are just flat wrong here and White is so committed to what he's doing on the other side + its intuitive that it should be D'ed up this way, that it seems like a check wasn't communicated/heard.

[Nobody]

Next two 2.5 + TtT are the next TD drive. This first one is incomplete and the 2nd one is the DJ 75 yard TD. This makes it 21-7.

Pass Incomplete
2nd & 10 at LA 25
(14:18) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete deep left to R.Woods.

They're 3x1 (Wide Bunch Left) w/ Singleback on Single side. We're blitzing w/ White (scraping to B off Suh's A gap rush) and we/re playing a tricky little 1 Man Free behind where Davis is playing Off Bail in Man on the single side w/ Edwards robbing underneath him to snatch any Slant/Dig/Skinny Post over there. The other side has Winfield just helping over top of the Wide Bunch.

Pass Rush: Vea walks the LG back to Stafford's lap at the release. Suh gets nothing in A, White is easily picked up by the Guard in B, Tryon and Barrett both lose to the OTs. A lot of singles and no wins outside of Vea's 7 yard displacement of the LG. Not good enough by the rest of the pass rushers.

Back End: Good enough on the back end, but LVD got rubbed and gave up a little daylight (ball should have gone here). This is a borderline impossible cover here as we're unaligned to disguise the Zone. He's got to come from 8 yards inside to chase the Point receiver of the Wide Bunch (and he gets rubbed by the Tight WR's vert). The throw is against the double move on the boundary against Cockrell's Press. Great job by Cockrell here and the incompletion is forced.

[Nobody]

Touchdown Rams
3rd & 10 at LA 25
(14:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep right to D.Jackson for 75 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

And the crushing TD on 3rd and 10 to make it 21-7. Simply a bust. We're playing Cover 6 (4/MQ against the Trips and 2 Zone against the Single/HB) behind a 4 man rush. Vea wins big against the LG w/ a Pull > Swim and gets a Hit on Stafford right as he's trying to throw. Suh is doubled. Tryon and Barrett are both singled and they get absolutely handled.

Problem is Edwards bites on DJax feint to the Post/Dig and DJax runs right by him on the 9 route for easy 6.

Stafford was going there all the way. If Edwards holds up, Vea swallows him for a big Sack and a Punt from the 16 and its only a 14-7 ballgame. So we get the ball in + field position with the opportunity to tie. Instead, it basically puts this game out of reach.

[Primeminister]

Below is Stafford's TtT passing splits for the game:

Week 3 Stafford TtT

* 2.34 = # 3 quickest in NFL (Brady a fraction behind him)

* 22 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.64 average TtT.

* However, his throws over 2.5 seconds yielded only 1 Sack, a huge Passer Rating of 139+, and 2 TDs.


So, again, the story was the same as above.

Overwhelmingly, we're losing because of the Quick Game as our back 7 coverage + calls aren't holding up in the time that NFL-standard coverage has to hold up. The ball is getting out well beyond what an NFL Pass Rush is capable of impacting on the significant bulk of throws. However, on his throws over 2.5 seconds in this game, the Pass Rush wasn't getting home either.

Mostly the back 7 coverage/calls, but the Pass Rush and Blitz failed to show up when its number was called.

++++++++++++++++++++

Going to take a look at what was going on in some of these 2.5 second + TtT play losses:

22 Yard Pass
1st & 10 at LA 23
(3:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep left to C.Kupp ran ob at LA 45 for 22 yards. TB-J.Dean was injured during the play.

Empty 4*1 vs 42 Nickel (no Vea, Suh, or Edwards), Match Quarters.

This is just a brutal Scissors route combo (1 goes Skinny Post and 2 goes hard inside release back to Corner with downfield Mesh) and a Flat route underneath it. The depth of both of these routes makes them verts. 3 goes on a Drive route with its depth of cut right before the area where it would be a match or the Safety.

Dean matches 1 (as he should). Winfield hands off 3 to the other Safety (as he should) and focuses on bracketing 2's vert. LVD and White are where they need to be with the under routes (with White working to flat on the quad side). Problem is Cockrell is in no man's land. He's not matching 2 and he's just sort of pedaling to grass with no depth. Winfield is pissed after the play. Orthodox MQ rules makes this Cockrell's match and Winfield helps bracket (whereas Cockrell just handed it off and pedaled to no-mans land...basically covering the flat with White).

In terms of lack of Pressure, the RB (tight on the quad side) chips and releases so they have 6 for a moment vs our 4. We run a game on both sides (with neither Vea nor Suh) and it gets nothing done.

I haven’t gone to find this play yet, but was there any way to stop this if Cockrell plays his role correctly? Or was the play doomed before the ball was snapped?

[Primeminister]

Ha! Wins don’t require investigation into what’s going on! I can just be quietly happy in my little corner of the universe!

I disagree. Some of those wins still showed certain bad tendencies. However I recognize no one wants to hear “negativity” after a win.

Hey have to been able to watch A-22 on game pass? I don’t see it anywhere.

[Primeminister]

Touchdown Rams
3rd & 10 at LA 25
(14:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep right to D.Jackson for 75 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

And the crushing TD on 3rd and 10 to make it 21-7. Simply a bust. We're playing Cover 6 (4/MQ against the Trips and 2 Zone against the Single/HB) behind a 4 man rush. Vea wins big against the LG w/ a Pull > Swim and gets a Hit on Stafford right as he's trying to throw. Suh is doubled. Tryon and Barrett are both singled and they get absolutely handled.

Problem is Edwards bites on DJax feint to the Post/Dig and DJax runs right by him on the 9 route for easy 6.

Stafford was going there all the way. If Edwards holds up, Vea swallows him for a big Sack and a Punt from the 16 and its only a 14-7 ballgame. So we get the ball in + field position with the opportunity to tie. Instead, it basically puts this game out of reach.

I think by this time the defense was feeling the pressure to make a play. Edwards bit to jump a route that wasn’t there.

[Primeminister]

Next two 2.5 + TtT are the next TD drive. This first one is incomplete and the 2nd one is the DJ 75 yard TD. This makes it 21-7.

Pass Incomplete
2nd & 10 at LA 25
(14:18) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete deep left to R.Woods.

They're 3x1 (Wide Bunch Left) w/ Singleback on Single side. We're blitzing w/ White (scraping to B off Suh's A gap rush) and we/re playing a tricky little 1 Man Free behind where Davis is playing Off Bail in Man on the single side w/ Edwards robbing underneath him to snatch any Slant/Dig/Skinny Post over there. The other side has Winfield just helping over top of the Wide Bunch.

Pass Rush: Vea walks the LG back to Stafford's lap at the release. Suh gets nothing in A, White is easily picked up by the Guard in B, Tryon and Barrett both lose to the OTs. A lot of singles and no wins outside of Vea's 7 yard displacement of the LG. Not good enough by the rest of the pass rushers.

Back End: Good enough on the back end, but LVD got rubbed and gave up a little daylight (ball should have gone here). This is a borderline impossible cover here as we're unaligned to disguise the Zone. He's got to come from 8 yards inside to chase the Point receiver of the Wide Bunch (and he gets rubbed by the Tight WR's vert). The throw is against the double move on the boundary against Cockrell's Press. Great job by Cockrell here and the incompletion is forced.

Rushing White into a Guard is a losing strategy every time. What should have happened there to put White in a winning rush rep?

[Nobody]

Below is Stafford's TtT passing splits for the game:

Week 3 Stafford TtT

* 2.34 = # 3 quickest in NFL (Brady a fraction behind him)

* 22 of his throws were well under 2.5 seconds at 1.64 average TtT.

* However, his throws over 2.5 seconds yielded only 1 Sack, a huge Passer Rating of 139+, and 2 TDs.


So, again, the story was the same as above.

Overwhelmingly, we're losing because of the Quick Game as our back 7 coverage + calls aren't holding up in the time that NFL-standard coverage has to hold up. The ball is getting out well beyond what an NFL Pass Rush is capable of impacting on the significant bulk of throws. However, on his throws over 2.5 seconds in this game, the Pass Rush wasn't getting home either.

Mostly the back 7 coverage/calls, but the Pass Rush and Blitz failed to show up when its number was called.

++++++++++++++++++++


Going to take a look at what was going on in some of these 2.5 second + TtT play losses:

22 Yard Pass
1st & 10 at LA 23
(3:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep left to C.Kupp ran ob at LA 45 for 22 yards. TB-J.Dean was injured during the play.

Empty 4*1 vs 42 Nickel (no Vea, Suh, or Edwards), Match Quarters.

This is just a brutal Scissors route combo (1 goes Skinny Post and 2 goes hard inside release back to Corner with downfield Mesh) and a Flat route underneath it. The depth of both of these routes makes them verts. 3 goes on a Drive route with its depth of cut right before the area where it would be a match or the Safety.

Dean matches 1 (as he should). Winfield hands off 3 to the other Safety (as he should) and focuses on bracketing 2's vert. LVD and White are where they need to be with the under routes (with White working to flat on the quad side). Problem is Cockrell is in no man's land. He's not matching 2 and he's just sort of pedaling to grass with no depth. Winfield is pissed after the play. Orthodox MQ rules makes this Cockrell's match and Winfield helps bracket (whereas Cockrell just handed it off and pedaled to no-mans land...basically covering the flat with White).

In terms of lack of Pressure, the RB (tight on the quad side) chips and releases so they have 6 for a moment vs our 4. We run a game on both sides (with neither Vea nor Suh) and it gets nothing done.

I haven’t gone to find this play yet, but was there any way to stop this if Cockrell plays his role correctly? Or was the play doomed before the ball was snapped?

This is the picture of the play when its basically DoA. White and Cockrell are both playing Flat here. Everyone is playing Match Quarter rules except Cockrell (who is playing 2 Zone rules). The triangle is #1. That is Cockrell's match. You can see Winfield on top of it as inside leverage (he's bracketing it as he should after ensuring #3 is transferred to the other Safety before it declares as a vert for him...which is at around 10-12 yards depending).

If Cockrell is where he's supposed to be, its a checkdown to the flat w/ White 1v1 to make a tackle for a ~ 3 yard gain (assuming no yards after contact and the tackle is made).

[Nobody]

Ha! Wins don’t require investigation into what’s going on! I can just be quietly happy in my little corner of the universe!

I disagree. Some of those wins still showed certain bad tendencies. However I recognize no one wants to hear “negativity” after a win.

Hey have to been able to watch A-22 on game pass? I don’t see it anywhere.

They only just released it. And its a garbage version of it (you can't sort and you can't slow down the tape and the interface is just crap...and it wasn't great to begin with). Pretty crappy job NFL. But hey, we understand that you're barely able to scrape a few nickels together...

[Nobody]

Touchdown Rams
3rd & 10 at LA 25
(14:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep right to D.Jackson for 75 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

And the crushing TD on 3rd and 10 to make it 21-7. Simply a bust. We're playing Cover 6 (4/MQ against the Trips and 2 Zone against the Single/HB) behind a 4 man rush. Vea wins big against the LG w/ a Pull > Swim and gets a Hit on Stafford right as he's trying to throw. Suh is doubled. Tryon and Barrett are both singled and they get absolutely handled.

Problem is Edwards bites on DJax feint to the Post/Dig and DJax runs right by him on the 9 route for easy 6.

Stafford was going there all the way. If Edwards holds up, Vea swallows him for a big Sack and a Punt from the 16 and its only a 14-7 ballgame. So we get the ball in + field position with the opportunity to tie. Instead, it basically puts this game out of reach.

I think by this time the defense was feeling the pressure to make a play. Edwards bit to jump a route that wasn’t there.

That is also his tendency. I love the player. I was/still am I big fan of the draft pick. But this is who he is (which is why I'd rather see him moved around than in 2 deep...he's much more dangerous as a box player/robber/hole player). He's going to see things and gamble.

[Nobody]

Next two 2.5 + TtT are the next TD drive. This first one is incomplete and the 2nd one is the DJ 75 yard TD. This makes it 21-7.

Pass Incomplete
2nd & 10 at LA 25
(14:18) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete deep left to R.Woods.

They're 3x1 (Wide Bunch Left) w/ Singleback on Single side. We're blitzing w/ White (scraping to B off Suh's A gap rush) and we/re playing a tricky little 1 Man Free behind where Davis is playing Off Bail in Man on the single side w/ Edwards robbing underneath him to snatch any Slant/Dig/Skinny Post over there. The other side has Winfield just helping over top of the Wide Bunch.

Pass Rush: Vea walks the LG back to Stafford's lap at the release. Suh gets nothing in A, White is easily picked up by the Guard in B, Tryon and Barrett both lose to the OTs. A lot of singles and no wins outside of Vea's 7 yard displacement of the LG. Not good enough by the rest of the pass rushers.

Back End: Good enough on the back end, but LVD got rubbed and gave up a little daylight (ball should have gone here). This is a borderline impossible cover here as we're unaligned to disguise the Zone. He's got to come from 8 yards inside to chase the Point receiver of the Wide Bunch (and he gets rubbed by the Tight WR's vert). The throw is against the double move on the boundary against Cockrell's Press. Great job by Cockrell here and the incompletion is forced.

Rushing White into a Guard is a losing strategy every time. What should have happened there to put White in a winning rush rep?

Its less about what we did and more about what they did. They just played this beautifully.

What is supposed to happen is Suh's hard move to A Gap is supposed to have the Guard step down inside to double for a moment while White scrapes off Suh's hip to the B gap. That puts White's burst at advantage against a Guard who has set inside. If he gets hip to hip, you hope White wins and creates a Pressure at worst.

Guard didn't set hard down inside. He played this beautifully, easily saw White scraping, and swallowed him up.

[Grahamburn]

Bowles kind of alluded to those tendencies when discussing Edwards after the Atlanta game. Whoever was interviewing him compared Edwards to Ronde, and you could immediately tell Bowles did not agree with that assessment and is fully aware of the flaws in his game.